Alcoholism, Obesity.... Compulsive Behaviors? Choices?

[+ WilliamM]

50 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

Yes, is volitional but we have a sedentary lifestyle and we have bad food choices and even food deserts where bad things are the only available food. We also subsidize corn syrup and other things to make food cheaper, therefore we have a clear connection between obesity and poverty in the USA.

American fast food companies have also exported obesity to other parts of the world like the Middle East where unlike here being chubby is seen as a sign of wealth. 

One more thing we Americans used to be taller and athletic all the way to the 70s specially in the middle of the county and the South, now is the opposite. 

 

What makes them alcoholics, is it having a drink at night or drinking on occasion till losing control the sign of alcoholism? 

Forgotting what happened when drunk =  acholism 

Edited January 25, 2022 by WilliamM

[MscleLovr]

Again, thinking back to my late teens/early 20s, I was encouraged to enjoy alcohol with food and in the company of others. So for me, alcoholism is not just drinking to excess but also connoted by drinking in secret, drinking alone, drinking instead of eating etc

Edited January 25, 2022 by MscleLovr

[Rudynate]

4 hours ago, MikeBiDude said:

How do you identify them as alcoholics?

I have found that a reliable sign of a problem drinker is someone who talks about drinking a lot. 

[TumYum]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

I have found that a reliable sign of a problem drinker is someone who talks about drinking a lot. 

.... or, in my friend's case, not at all....

[MikeBiDude]

2 hours ago, Rudynate said:

I have found that a reliable sign of a problem drinker is someone who talks about drinking a lot. 

40 minutes ago, TumYum said:

.... or, in my friend's case, not at all....

Which is why I asked @MscleLovr a few posts back “ how do you know…” someone is an alcoholic. 

I submit that is you haven’t been through an addiction recovery process yourself or with a loved one…or you’re a professional. You just can’t tell…

[marylander1940]

22 hours ago, tassojunior said:

I sometimes wonder if people knew they had addictions before mirrors were invented. Obesity's a tough one since some people have genetic issues. But let's be honest, it's not just genetics in most of us. Americans' genes didn't just mutate mid-century. We need to fix ourselves as much as we can. I know it's not easy. But yes, most of us obese people are contributing to our own risk for serious covid. 

yes, genes didn't mutate midcentury but our lifestyle and food choices have changed. 

Obesity is one more self inflicted would! 

[+ WilliamM]

16 minutes ago, MikeBiDude said:

Which is why I asked @MscleLovr a few posts back “ how do you know…” someone is an alcoholic. 

I submit that is you haven’t been through an addiction recovery process yourself or with a loved one…or you’re a professional. You just can’t tell…

Or a long time friend from college or high school

[+ augustus]

11 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

What makes them alcoholics, is it having a drink at night or drinking on occasion till losing control the sign of alcoholism? 

The latter, for sure.  The irrational behavior.  The verbal and violent outbursts.  

[+ Pensant]

19 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

One more thing we Americans used to be taller and athletic all the way to the 70s specially in the middle of the county and the South, now is the opposite. 

In the late 60’s, the FDA released the notorious food pyramid, partly because of growing food inflation, particularly eggs and beef. This insidious campaign against good fats and proteins in favor of carbs (low-fat, poisonous oils and “cholesterol-free”) led to an epidemic of obesity and diabetes. Then we had the big chemical companies introducing awful fertilizers in big ag. Now, it’s a real effort to find healthy foods, especially in the areas of the country you cited. A map of obesity rates underscores this. In the 80’s, colleagues made gentle fun of me for my dinner choices and my hydration program.

As for height, immigration from other parts of the world where folks are shorter has lowered the average height in the US. I’m not particularly tall, 5’11, but I tower over men in some of the countries I visit. I imagine @Benjamin_Nicholasmust feel like a giant!

[+ WilliamM]

19 minutes ago, Pensant said:

In the late 60’s, the FDA released the notorious food pyramid, partly because of growing food inflation, particularly eggs and beef. This insidious campaign against good fats and proteins in favor of carbs (low-fat, poisonous oils and “cholesterol-free”) led to an epidemic of obesity and diabetes. Then we had the big chemical companies introducing awful fertilizers in big ag. Now, it’s a real effort to find healthy foods, especially in the areas of the country you cited. A map of obesity rates underscores this. In the 80’s, colleagues made gentle fun of me for my dinner choices and my hydration program.

As for height, immigration from other parts of the world where folks are shorter has lowered the average height in the US. I’m not particularly tall, 5’11, but I tower over men in some of the countries I visit. I imagine @Benjamin_Nicholasmust feel like a giant!

I tower over my friend; his dad came here from Germany. Don't notice it except when he is in a crowd with me.

[TumYum]

1 hour ago, WilliamM said:

I tower over my friend; his dad came here from Germany. Don't notice it except when he is in a crowd with me.

One thing I noticed in common between my alcoholic and my obese friend is that they would never display "excessive" bheavior(s) in public

Over indulgence was always a very private ritual. Be it the bottle or the box of Krispy Kremes, the putting on the feed bag was never done in public spaces.

[Leyte2019]

On 1/24/2022 at 4:01 PM, topunderachiever said:

Some insist addiction is for the weak.  It is extremely complicated and we can call it a disease if you wish. 

But why can most avoid it while others can't.  Eating, smoking, gambling, drinking, sex, meth, hoarding, etc.  

Any can be succumbed to.  And all can be overcome or avoided with an extreme desire and/or will.  

Most recovery professionals (therapists, counselors, social workers, medical specialists) and most of those in 12 step recovery would agree with the need for a desire to stop drinking and drugging. But 12 step programs also emphasize the need to replace self will with spiritual principles and belief in a power greater than  themselves.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Leyte2019

[+ JEC]

"Alcoholism" means dependence / physical addiction, it's part of a broader spectrum of alcohol abuse called AUD:

What is alcohol use disorder (AUD)?

For most adults, moderate alcohol use is probably not harmful. However, about 18 million adult Americans have an alcohol use disorder (AUD). This means that their drinking causes distress and harm. AUD can range from mild to severe, depending on the symptoms. Severe AUD is sometimes called alcoholism or alcohol dependence.

AUD is a disease that causes:

• Craving - a strong need to drink
• Loss of control - not being able to stop drinking once you've started
• Negative emotional state - feeling anxious and irritable when you are not drinking

[+ WilliamM]

20 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

yes, genes didn't mutate midcentury but our lifestyle and food choices have changed. 

Obesity is one more self inflicted would! 

There have always been obese folks. Lifestyles have not changed, neither have food choices. 

[TumYum]

47 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

There have always been obese folks. Lifestyles have not changed, neither have food choices. 

You raise a good point here and one that I must confess little understanding  of.

Standing at 5'10" and 165 lbs., (now that I have resumed my pre-COVID weight, haha) obesity is not an issue for me and when I think about "food choices" it may mean something very different from: for example, how to maximize nutrients while minimizing calories, how to avoid certain obnoxious ingredients, and so on.

However, I fear that for some "food choices" may have more profound health effects: the obese whose very lives are threatened by their weight must encounter a very different set of dynamics, for example.

True?

[+ JEC]

IMHO it's simplistic (and judgmental) to simply say that alcoholics and obese people simple can't control themselves.

There are many factors that contribute to a persons weight: genetics, medical conditions, medications, and psychological makeup.  It's much more complex than simply saying "eat better".

Psychological makeup is the most complex of these.  Each person grew up and lives with a different life experience, different physical abilities (to exercise for example), different interests, different parents, different training, education, other "social determinants of health" which may include trauma, abuse and resulting in low self-esteem, depression or other.  Not everybody wants to work out or go to the gym, or is able to.

Food addiction is a form of addiction, as is alcoholism.  But not everyone who is obese is a food addict.  So, why doesn't someone just put the heroin down, or the meth, or oxy?  The fact that we still have these beliefs (and stigma) is why addiction is  still so prevalent.   It is a disease: part nature and part nurture.  And one we still haven't figured out how to conquer.

There is a lot of addiction in my family.   I "get" that we don't want to be victimized by it, and it's uncomfortable to talk about it.  We need to protect ourselves.   But I hope we can have some compassion for people with this dreaded disease.

[TumYum]

"Take each man's censure,

but reserve thy judgment"

-- Hamlet

[Luv2play]

I think lifestyles have changed markedly during my longish lifetime. More people are sedentary today than they were in the 1950’s when I was growing up. Cars are used much more even to get to the corner store. Television and other electronic devices are much more pervasive today and indeed intrusive in people’s lives.

Also eating habits have changed a lot. Much more junk and processed food makes up a greater proportion of people’s diets. More dining out where food is served in larger portions and highly salted and more fat content.

Most people don’t exercise enough and think watching sports on TV makes them a sport.

All of this is leading to greater rates of obesity in most western cultures, especially the US and even here in Canada. Not sure what is going to turn this around. On the current trajectory, average life expectancy will probably decline.

[TumYum]

1 minute ago, Luv2play said:

I think lifestyles have changed markedly during my longish lifetime. More people are sedentary today than they were in the 1950’s when I was growing up. Cars are used much more even to get to the corner store. Television and other electronic devices are much more pervasive today and indeed intrusive in people’s lives.

Also eating habits have changed a lot. Much more junk and processed food makes up a greater proportion of people’s diets. More dining out where food is served in larger portions and highly salted and more fat content.

Most people don’t exercise enough and think watching sports on TV makes them a sport.

All of this is leading to greater rates of obesity in most western cultures, especially the US and even here in Canada. Not sure what is going to turn this around. On the current trajectory, average life expectancy will probably decline.

Interesting posting and I very much agree with you, except for the fact that at the same time the "fitness craze" takes deeper and deeper roots, and the availability of healthier lifestyle options are more and more widely available.

I wonder how much of this is an American thing, really. When I travel the world, I rarely encounter such obvious displays of widespread obesity and wonder why.... but then I travel to the Philippines, long under the overt and covert influence of the USA, and encounter obesity.

Makes one wonder.

[BSR]

18 minutes ago, TumYum said:

Interesting posting and I very much agree with you, except for the fact that at the same time the "fitness craze" takes deeper and deeper roots, and the availability of healthier lifestyle options are more and more widely available.

As one standup comedian put it, "All my friends are married.  I really envy them.  I can't wait to get married ... so I can stop working out."

[TumYum]

7 minutes ago, BSR said:

As one standup comedian put it, "All my friends are married.  I really envy them.  I can't wait to get married ... so I can stop working out."

No. Working out has as much to do -- probably much more actually -- with health and longevity as it does with physical appearance. Appearance may be a marketing tool ("Look Better Naked" was the slogan at one of the gyms I worked out at) but people who take it serious see quantifiable improvements in their overall health regardless of changes in their appearance.

[Luv2play]

29 minutes ago, TumYum said:

Interesting posting and I very much agree with you, except for the fact that at the same time the "fitness craze" takes deeper and deeper roots, and the availability of healthier lifestyle options are more and more widely available.

I wonder how much of this is an American thing, really. When I travel the world, I rarely encounter such obvious displays of widespread obesity and wonder why.... but then I travel to the Philippines, long under the overt and covert influence of the USA, and encounter obesity.

Makes one wonder.

Interesting you mentioned the Philippines. I was listening to a program on CBC radio about an immigrant to Canada from the Philippines and he related how much sugar features in their diet, even in spaghetti sauce. Amazing.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Luv2play

[TumYum]

14 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

Interesting you mentioned the Philippines. I was listening to a program on CBC radio about an immigrant to Canada from the Philippines and he related how much sugar features in their diet, even in spaghetti sauce. Amazing.

Yes it is true.... I have lived for a few years in Manila... and the amount of American inspired fast food products that are consumed on a regular basis is astounding.... particularly when compared to other Southeast Asian nations. 

[+ Tygerscent]

On 1/24/2022 at 5:19 PM, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

Addictive and cyclical behaviors are difficult.

Most people can't curb them on their own and don't connect the need for therapy in dealing with their issues regarding food, drugs, etc.

You can't just magically get surgery and be thin and healthy.  It doesn't work like that.  You have to first understand why you were obese in the first place and mentally work through your relationship with food.

The same goes for major drug, gambling or any other addictive behaviors that impair a normal, productive life.

I am a type-A to a fault, so addiction isn't something I deal with.  That said, I've put many people I love through programs and done whatever I can to patiently stand by and help them, but not enable them.

OP:  As others have said here, it's not why, but that it's happening.  If you want to be a good friend, you make yourself available if they need you.  You can dictate how deep you want to get entrenched.

 

 

Sometimes it’s genetics at play: https://www.allergy-associates.com/?p=942

Even allergies to alcohol and food, how a body processes sugar or proteins… 

I know of people where the consumption of Alcohol triggers them to go into diabetic keto acidosis~ 
 My brother was one of those people… it took him out January 26th 2018~

Edited January 27, 2022 by Tygerscent

[xyz48B]

On 1/25/2022 at 5:58 PM, MikeBiDude said:

I submit that is you haven’t been through an addiction recovery process yourself or with a loved one…or you’re a professional. You just can’t tell…

Or really understand. There’s a lot of parroting back mainstream understandings from the 1990s and 2000s about addiction in this thread. I’m not surprised given the age makeup of the forum. But there has been a shift in understanding and approach to dealing with addiction – particularly drugs, alcohol, and food – in the past 10 years or so.

I love how people who aren’t obese, for example, say “I know it’s hard.” No. You don’t know. Unless you’ve lived it. And talking about the health consequences of obesity isn’t helpful. An obese person knows they’re obese and doesn’t need you to tell them. Nor do they need you to explain the health ramifications of it to them. They likely know it better than you unless you’re a doctor or weightloss coach. What they do need from you is decency like you would afford anyone else. You can’t likely identify a high functioning alcoholic by looking at them so that you can pass judgement on them in the supermarket the same way you can on an obese person who may in fact lead a very fulfilling life. Whatever the case may be, people need to settle down with their all-encompassing understanding of the life experiences of other people and actually listen before offering advice or passing judgements, even if those judgements have no bearing on those for whom they’re passed.