No mask!

[samhexum]

Carnival Cruise Line to end mask mandates for guests

https://nypost.com/2022/02/19/carnival-cruise-line-to-end-mask-mandates-for-guests/

 

Carnival Cruise Line plans to make masks optional for its guests from March 1 after the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) eased its warnings for cruise ships, the company said in a statement late on Friday.

The company said masks would be recommended but not required.

“There may, however, be certain venues and events where masks will be required,” Carnival said in the statement.

Carnival also said it plans to offer more flexibility in pre-cruise testing requirements.

The cruise line, operated by Carnival Corp (CCL.N), said children under 5 will be allowed to sail without any need for vaccine or exemption.

The easing of the mask mandate follows similar action from cruise operator Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd (NCLH.N) and theme park Disney World. 

[Guest]

Well, if everyone on board is verified as vaccinated, wearing masks is pure silliness. 

[+ WilliamM]

Will Queen Elizabeth Ii ware a mask now that she has covid19 - as a symbol to her country?

[MscleLovr]

I doubt we’ll see her out and about, masked or unmasked. She is isolating in Windsor Castle and her medical team is reportedly monitoring her closely.

HM is, of course, in the highest risk category as she nears her 96th birthday. She is said to be carrying out “light duties” online and by phone. 

FWIW my view is that her courtiers have done a very good job in protecting her from infection throughout the last two years. 

 

[+ Lucky]

Did Charles intentionally infect her to advance his goal of becoming King before he dies? We may never know, but royal politics throughout history have seen similar games played by heirs in waiting.

[cany10011]

3 hours ago, Lucky said:

Did Charles intentionally infect her to advance his goal of becoming King before he dies? We may never know, but royal politics throughout history have seen similar games played by heirs in waiting.

I don't think any child would do that deliberately to their elderly parent. 

[MscleLovr]

It’s true that it was announced earlier that Charles has Covid. But it’s also been reported that Andrew has visited HM several times this last week (always in the evening to avoid being photographed). Perhaps Andrew has spread the infection; he’s hardly a responsible citizen…

[+ Tygerscent]

On 5/25/2021 at 3:01 PM, Unicorn said:

Well, I agree no one should criticize people for wearing masks, though there are appropriate forums for discussing whether masking is needed in certain circumstances. You're a bit off on the dates for the Pfizer immunization. If you're talking about the data from the original studies, Pfizer started looking at the data one week after the 2nd shot, which is 3 weeks after the 1st shot in that study, so it's 4 weeks from the 1st shot. Moderna started looking 2 weeks after the 2nd shot, which is 4 weeks after the 1st, so in that case it's 6 weeks after the first shot, if you really only trust randomized controlled trials.

I think most public health officials will acknowledge now, particularly after the UK "experiment" to focus on giving everyone one "jab," that real-world data now strongly suggests that almost all of the protection comes in 2 weeks after the 1st shot. In fact, it appears that delaying the 2nd shot probably leads to even better efficacy (though 95% is pretty good). Data strongly suggest that once you're over 2 weeks past the 1st shot, you won't be contagious, even if you contract the virus. 

Perhaps important to note here: the vaccinations we currently have were really targeting the original Covid infection of 2020 and mid 2021. The virus has evolved since and the current vaccines have limited efficacy as the virus evolves around itPerhaps important to note here: the vaccinations we currently have were really targeting the original Covid infection of 2020 and mid 2021. The virus has evolved since and the current vaccines have limited efficacy as the virus evolves around it. 
Consider that the Moderna, Pfizer, Astra Zeneca, Johnson & Johnson and whatever else is out there are pretty much moving fast into being obsolete since the virus is they targeted art what does prevalent. It’s kind of the same or at least similar situation that you have with flu vaccines. You don’t give the same one every year for 20 years because every year that virus also mutates into something different and the vaccines you had last year may not have any effect on the flu this year or next year. Similar principal in some respects.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Tygerscent said:

Perhaps important to note here: the vaccinations we currently have were really targeting the original Covid infection of 2020 and mid 2021. The virus has evolved since and the current vaccines have limited efficacy as the virus evolves around itPerhaps important to note here: the vaccinations we currently have were really targeting the original Covid infection of 2020 and mid 2021. The virus has evolved since and the current vaccines have limited efficacy as the virus evolves around it. 
Consider that the Moderna, Pfizer, Astra Zeneca, Johnson & Johnson and whatever else is out there are pretty much moving fast into being obsolete since the virus is they targeted art what does prevalent. It’s kind of the same or at least similar situation that you have with flu vaccines. You don’t give the same one every year for 20 years because every year that virus also mutates into something different and the vaccines you had last year may not have any effect on the flu this year or next year. Similar principal in some respects.

Well, "limited" is somewhat a weasel word in that it can simply mean "not 100%," which is always the case in real life. The data for more recent strains still show great efficacy at preventing severe disease and death, still approaching 95%:

The influenza virus and its vaccines are a different case. The vaccines target certain antigens which change from year to year as different strains: H1N1, H3N2, and so forth. 

[+ Tygerscent]

2 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Well, "limited" is somewhat a weasel word in that it can simply mean "not 100%," which is always the case in real life. The data for more recent strains still show great efficacy at preventing severe disease and death, still approaching 95%:

The influenza virus and its vaccines are a different case. The vaccines target certain antigens which change from year to year as different strains: H1N1, H3N2, and so forth. 

A few more current articles for your reading pleasure~ 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35169598/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00836-z

https://www.jci.org/articles/view/157416

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.06.22270533v1
 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tygerscent said:

A few more current articles for your reading pleasure~ 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35169598/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-021-00836-z

https://www.jci.org/articles/view/157416

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.06.22270533v1
 

 

"Omicron BA.2 (B.1.1.529.2): high potential to becoming the next dominating variant"

"Taken together the results suggested a higher risk of Omicron breakthrough infections and reduced efficiency of the protective immunity elicited by existing vaccines."

"Searching for escape-resistant anti–SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies"

"The ability of BA.2 to evade NAbs induced by vaccination or infection has not yet been reported. We evaluated WA1/2020, Omicron BA.1, and BA.2 NAbs in 24 individuals who were vaccinated and boosted with the mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine5 and in 8 individuals who were infected with SARS-CoV-2 (Table S1)."

Those are from the 4 articles you listed, in order. The first 3 describe certain concerns. Real life data suggests those concerns may be unfounded. The last article you mention (which you appear not to have read) actually states that the ability of the newest variant to evade neutralizing antibodies has NOT been reported, so it seems to allay your previously-mentioned concerns. 

 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

On 2/20/2022 at 2:43 AM, Unicorn said:

Well, if everyone on board is verified as vaccinated, wearing masks is pure silliness. 

Not necessarily.

If the ship never docked, then I'd say it's fine for everyone to go maskless.  You're in a bubble at sea.

A lot of problems happen when docking multiple places and then coming back onto the ship.

I was on a Virgin ship over xmas.  I felt like things were 'normal' until our first port.  Then, I wore a mask on the ship when inside.  A lot of folks doing a lot of in-port drinking and making bad decisions.  My choice was my choice. 

I can only keep ME healthy.  I can't dictate what others do or don't do.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

Not necessarily.

If the ship never docked, then I'd say it's fine for everyone to go maskless....

The reason the people on board don't need to be concerned isn't that there's no risk of contagion. Someone on the ship may be in the incubation phase on the day of boarding and be contagious 2 days later. The reason that there is no reasonable concern is that serious illness in the fully vaccinated is almost unheard-of, statistically speaking. We're constantly exposed to all kinds of contagious organisms. What we need to worry about is not contracting something, it's getting seriously ill (or dying, obviously). Anyone who works as an escort and thinks he's not exposing himself to all kinds of contagious diseases is deluding himself. 

If someone has had all 3 doses, the worst which could happen is a mild cold-like illness, at least from a health perspective. Of course, the more significant worst-case scenario is actually the banning of this person from returning to his home country, due to outdated policies. Just last night I went to a drag show at Mickey's (I'm hosting one of the drag queens in my house), which was packed with at least 200 maskless people celebrating and shouting (vaccination status of everyone in the room verified). I fully understand I may contract the virus (as I understood before 2019 I could catch something as well in a similar situation), but I don't have any realistic fears that I'll get seriously ill. 

[+ Tygerscent]

9 hours ago, Unicorn said:

"Omicron BA.2 (B.1.1.529.2): high potential to becoming the next dominating variant"

"Taken together the results suggested a higher risk of Omicron breakthrough infections and reduced efficiency of the protective immunity elicited by existing vaccines."

"Searching for escape-resistant anti–SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies"

"The ability of BA.2 to evade NAbs induced by vaccination or infection has not yet been reported. We evaluated WA1/2020, Omicron BA.1, and BA.2 NAbs in 24 individuals who were vaccinated and boosted with the mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine5 and in 8 individuals who were infected with SARS-CoV-2 (Table S1)."

Those are from the 4 articles you listed, in order. The first 3 describe certain concerns. Real life data suggests those concerns may be unfounded. The last article you mention (which you appear not to have read) actually states that the ability of the newest variant to evade neutralizing antibodies has NOT been reported, so it seems to allay your previously-mentioned concerns. 

 

I read them all… 
 Mixed data… and when I see mixed lab/test data, I tend to err on the side of caution rather than tell people everything is okay~ 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Tygerscent said:

I read them all… 
 Mixed data… and when I see mixed lab/test data, I tend to err on the side of caution rather than tell people everything is okay~ 

Well, there are lab data and there are reality data. Both are out there. While lab data may suggest a concern, the data on hospitalization and death show that efficacy remains in real life. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01753-y#article-info

"The 3-dose VE against hospitalization with Delta or Omicron was >99% across the entire study population. Our findings demonstrate high, durable 3-dose VE against Delta infection but lower effectiveness against Omicron infection, particularly among immunocompromised people. However, 3-dose VE of mRNA-1273 was high against hospitalization with Delta and Omicron variants."

[+ WilliamM]

20 hours ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

Not necessarily.

If the ship never docked, then I'd say it's fine for everyone to go maskless.  You're in a bubble at sea.

A lot of problems happen when docking multiple places and then coming back onto the ship.

I was on a Virgin ship over xmas.  I felt like things were 'normal' until our first port.  Then, I wore a mask on the ship when inside.  A lot of folks doing a lot of in-port drinking and making bad decisions.  My choice was my choice. 

I can only keep ME healthy.  I can't dictate what others do or don't do.

I felt a bit uncomfortable this afternoon eating lunch at a local restaurant  with the staff wearing masks but none of the folks dining.

Understood that one can't ware a mask while eating, but  they were not wearing masks at and time 

I live in Philadelphia.

The staff wasn't checking for vaccinated people. But glad they were wearing masks.

Sad

Edited February 23, 2022 by WilliamM

[+ Tygerscent]

11 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Well, there are lab data and there are reality data. Both are out there. While lab data may suggest a concern, the data on hospitalization and death show that efficacy remains in real life. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01753-y#article-info

"The 3-dose VE against hospitalization with Delta or Omicron was >99% across the entire study population. Our findings demonstrate high, durable 3-dose VE against Delta infection but lower effectiveness against Omicron infection, particularly among immunocompromised people. However, 3-dose VE of mRNA-1273 was high against hospitalization with Delta and Omicron variants."

Its not what’s already going thru the population it’s what mutated and yet to come next that keeps me cautious~ 
 Every couple of months it’s a new set of circumstances and a new variant~ 

 So, we’ll see how BA.2 etc., goes~ 

 

[Guest]

On 2/23/2022 at 1:26 PM, WilliamM said:

I felt a bit uncomfortable this afternoon eating lunch at a local restaurant  with the staff wearing masks but none of the folks dining.

....

Once again, the severity of the only strain circulating in most places (omicron variants) is less severe than most colds, and significantly less severe than influenza even if vaccinated in most cases. This is irrespective of age. If your health is so frail that you'd be afraid to contract anything before the pandemic and wouldn't feel comfortable going out, then continue doing what you were previously doing. Otherwise your concerns are simply out of proportion to the actual danger. The only reason we're masking at this point in time is to protect those who choose to go unvaccinated. 

[samhexum]

Yesterday was the first day the audience at THE VIEW didn't have to wear masks.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, samhexum said:

Yesterday was the first day the audience at THE VIEW didn't have to wear masks.

Well, nothing has changed with respect to the virulence or transmissibility of the virus since I last commented on this subject a little over a year ago. The only thing that's changed is the increasingly large percentage of people who finally agree with me. It's heartening to see the final holdouts at last admit they were wrong. I watch two late night shows, Kimmel and Colbert. I noticed that Colbert also finally dropped the masking requirement for his audience about a month ago, and Kimmel a number of months before that. Only complete nut-jobs disagree with me now.

[samhexum]

29 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Only complete nut-jobs disagree with me now.

Have incomplete nut-jobs been agreeing with you all along or are they new to the party?

[+ KensingtonHomo]

4 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Only complete nut-jobs disagree with me now.

And people who work in public health. You've participated in the normalization of 500 Americans dying every day from a preventable infectious disease because you found masking inconvenient. I still mask indoors and on public transit because I a) don't want COVID and b) don't want to spread it. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, KensingtonHomo said:

And people who work in public health....

Not if they've read the actual studies. As noted in other strings, published studies reveal that masking only reduces transmission by 9.5%. Also, officials are still counting as Covid-19 deaths anyone who tests positive on entering the hospital (and they're checking everyone), and someone counts as a Covid-19 death even when the reason for the death clearly has nothing to do with the virus (stroke, heart attack, terminal cancer, etc.), and the patient is not having any symptoms attributable with the virus. With a virus this prevalent (mostly  asymptomatic), it's not a surprise that a number of people die who happen to carry the virus at the time of death. Even if it were true that the virus were killing 500 people a day, and it most certainly is not true, it's obviously a drop in the ocean of a country with 332 million people. And masking could be expected to help at most 50 people a day in the entire USA--but even that's a huge overestimation, as most of those 500 died of other causes, and the positive test was an incidental finding.

Since you say you still mask indoors, I'm curious as to when your end point to stopping is. Do you actually believe the virus will go away? (News flash: it's not going away ever) Or do you plan on masking indoors for the rest of your life? I went to a huge medical conference with thousands in attendance about a month ago. How many people did I count who wore masks? Less than a dozen (none of them speakers at the event), and most of those were of east Asian extraction, where masking is more of a cultural phenomenon than one based on science facts. Those who are actually informed on the subject don't mask (including all of the speakers who spoke on this and other infectious disease subjects). 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Unicorn

[+ Pensant]

Some people will mask forever. It’s some kind of peculiar status symbol.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

14 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I'm curious as to when your end point to stopping is. Do you actually believe the virus will go away? (News flash: it's not going away ever) Or do you plan on masking indoors for the rest of your life?

Again, you're assisting the Biden administration and it's corporate masters in normalizing mass death. I will mask in certain instances (subways, planes, etc) probably for the rest of my life. I get fewer colds. I haven't had the flu in over three years. 

Thank God you weren't in charge of ACT-UP or we'd have no HIV treatments or PreP because you'd want to accept we had to sit on our hands and accept death.