No mask!

[+ FreshFluff]

Masks still on in CA. Sorry I missed liberation day in NYC.

[mike carey]

Pollster Frank Luntz was just on the Daily Show and he said his polling shows three apolitical messages that are effective in persuading the vaccine hesitant: 1) Listen to your doctor, who knows what it good for your health. 2) 9 out of 10 doctors have been vaccinated. What do they know that you don't? 3) Do it for your loved ones. Those are all good statements.

I wouldn’t be so quick to cite him as a legitimate pollster.

In a coincidence of timing, I heard an episode of This American Life on ABC Radio National last night about his involvement in trying to convince Trump voters to take the vaccine. I know he is a somewhat notorious GOP pollster so on that basis his statements could be suspect, but as the episode explains he suffered a stroke and recognised that it was in part due to his having ignore his doctor's advice on the risk factors, so he thinks it's important that people take the medical advice in this instance. He was seen by people trying to spread the messages as a poacher turned gamekeeper to persuade Trump voters. The segment documents the Zoom focus group he ran.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/736/the-herd/act-two-4

[Luv2play]

In a coincidence of timing, I heard an episode of This American Life on ABC Radio National last night about his involvement in trying to convince Trump voters to take the vaccine. I know he is a somewhat notorious GOP pollster so on that basis his statements could be suspect, but as the episode explains he suffered a stroke and recognised that it was in part due to his having ignore his doctor's advice on the risk factors, so he thinks it's important that people take the medical advice in this instance. He was seen by people trying to spread the messages as a poacher turned gamekeeper to persuade Trump voters. The segment documents the Zoom focus group he ran.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/736/the-herd/act-two-4

Interesting segment of Ira Glass and David Kastenbaum with Frank Luntz, who I had never heard about before this thread. One of my brothers is a political pollster so I do know quite a bit about the trade. He’s written two books about his experiences with polling and focus groups in real life political terms.

[mike carey]

Interesting segment of Ira Glass and David Kastenbaum with Frank Luntz, who I had never heard about before this thread.

I had only vaguely heard of him, but I got a sense of his notoriety from the segment.

[+ stevenkesslar]

If he’s just offering them up as reasons to be vaccinated, nothing. But if he claimed they were somehow related to, or a result of some polling he did, then that’s suspect.

 

A broken can still have the correct time twice a day, but I just don’t think he’s credible, period.

 

I'd never argue he is my favorite pollster. But I thought his messages were good. I hope at this point it just becomes about keeping people healthy and alive. That's what his messages speak to.

 

I have read that some fully vaccinated people did acquire COVID and subsequently died. A very small number at this point but not nil. And a few more got seriously ill and ended up in ICUs. These reports did not give specifics like age of patients and underlying conditions, which would have given a clearer picture.

 

I can believe that. Like I said above, it was not clear from what I read whether the no deaths outcome was simply for the J & J vaccinated control group, or the control groups for all the vaccines. Assuming you are correct, it confirms what the CDC says, which is that some vaccinated people will still get sick and die. My assumption is it would be people in the high risk groups.

 

It underlines even more the point that vaccinated people will be able to spread the virus, even if they are asymptomatic. So Luntz's messages to the unvaccinated make sense, whether or not they have been adequately polled or whether or not he's the right guy to be spreading them.

[mattr]

I understood from the start that I wouldn't be 100% protected but I got the vaccine as soon as i was eligible. All my family and friends are vaccinated except my 8 year old niece but she will be vaccinated as soon as the vaccine is approved for her age group. Anyone looking for 100% should double mask and crawl under their beds for the rest of their lives....and I say good riddance.

 

One thing that no one talks about is our responsibility to those unable to be vaccinated. I have a dear friend who is battling cancer and is currently in remission but her doctor (a top specialist at MSK in NY) has recommended that she have a bone marrow transplant which means she won't be able to be vaccinated for at least a year. Her immune sysetem will be destroyed by chemo therapy and she will have to get all of her childhood vaccinations again once this course of treatment is complete. Everyone who can be vaccinated, should be vaccinated for her and our friends, neighbors, and family like her. To not get vaccinated is utter selfishness.

[mattr]

So the CDC just announced that fully vaccinated individuals do not have to wear masks in most places. So, how do you ensure that your neighborhood anti-vaccination Karens continue to wear their masks and not fake being vaccinated?

Can we please have a little compassion and decency and stop using the name "Karen" as a euphemism for ignorance, racism, or whatever other ailment society is afflicted with at any given moment. I know it might seem cool and woke but it is just defaming a whole group of women for the misdeeds of one. Grow up and stop it

[Guest]

Today's New York Times summarizes the changes well:

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is finally catching up to the science.

 

For months, research about Covid-19 has pointed to two encouraging patterns. First, the underlying virus that causes Covid rarely spreads outdoors. Second — and even more important — fully vaccinated people are at virtually no risk of serious disease and only a minuscule risk of spreading the virus to others.

 

But the C.D.C., which has long been a cautious agency, has been unwilling to highlight these facts. It has instead focused on tiny risks — risks that are smaller than those from, say, taking a car trip. The C.D.C.’s intricate list of recommended Covid behavior has baffled many Americans and frightened others, making the guidance less helpful than it might have been.

 

Yesterday, the agency effectively acknowledged it had fallen behind the scientific evidence: Even though that evidence has not changed in months, the C.D.C. overhauled its guidelines. It said fully vaccinated people could stop wearing masks in most settings, including crowded indoor gatherings.

 

The change sends a message: Vaccination means the end of the Covid crisis, for individuals and ultimately for society.

 

If you’re vaccinated, you can safely get together with family and friends, mask-free. You can nuzzle your grandparents or your grandchildren. You can eat in restaurants, go to the movies and attend religious services. You can travel. If you’re vaccinated, Covid joins a long list of small risks that we have long accepted without upending our lives, like riding in a car, taking a swim or exposing ourselves to the common cold."

[mltn]

I am fully vaccinated but I will continue to wear my mask indefinitely in public because a) I want to b) I just can c) I’d rather be struck by lightning than be mistaken for a maga/anti-vaxxer republican ???

[Guest]

Masks played a role in flattening the curve until the vaccine was developed and distributed.

the vaccine in having the expected effect.

so now, the healthcare system has capacity to handle the curve caused by the unvaccinated

 

I guess that now I have as much chance of getting hit by Chinese space junk as I do of getting seriously ill or dying from covid.

 

bur honestly, I expect that if I ever experience cold or flu symptoms in the future, I will mask up to protect others from my own contagion...I think this experience has raised our collective awareness and sense of personal responsibility (I hope)

[Guest]

The Seychelles is 60% vaccinated, but still infections are rising. That's not as bad as it sounds

 

The headline at least alludes to the key point:

“Over the last few months, after vaccination, people have seen that anybody getting infected is not getting seriously sick, nobody is dying, nobody is getting a lot of complications," he said. People in the islands -- who he said love to party -- have been socializing without taking precautions. "People have let down their guard."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/africa/seychelles-covid-vaccination-infection-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

 

This isn’t about infection anymore. It’s about serious illness or death...or the lack thereof. We have flattened the curve.

[+ Pensant]

Masks still on in CA. Sorry I missed liberation day in NYC.

I was in San Diego Sunday through Tuesday. About half were wearing masks outside. On the hiking trails, no one.

[+ Pensant]

I am fully vaccinated but I will continue to wear my mask indefinitely in public because a) I want to b) I just can c) I’d rather be struck by lightning than be mistaken for a maga/anti-vaxxer republican ???

To each his own.

[Guest]

The Seychelles is 60% vaccinated, but still infections are rising. That's not as bad as it sounds

...

Gotta read the article. There's an important difference between the Seychelles and the US: "The Seychelles is relying on China-made Sinopharm and Covishield..."

That being said, it looks as those the vaccinated with the Chinese vaccines at least aren't faring horribly: only 2 ICU admissions and 0 deaths.

[jjkrkwood]

Had a dream last night about a corned beef sandwich, but I havent eatten out since the pandemic, a year and a half ago..... I take my dream as a sign, so tonight I am venturing out to Ben's Jewish Deli in Rego Park Queens. NY..... Will be dining alone, but who cares when you are eatting a hot corned beef and brisket combo on Challah bread, with stuffed derma and gravy, and a kasha knish..... I have been fasting ALL day to make up for the calorie and cholesterol I'm about to put my body thru..... Of course I will go maskless while eatting, but otherwise mask will be on (once the mask comes off it defeats the purpose of the mask, so I really dont get this dine in thing ?) but what the hell. When in Rego Park.......EAT CORNED BEEF ! ?

[wsc]

Had a dream last night about a corned beef sandwich, but I havent eatten out since the pandemic, a year and a half ago..... I take my dream as a sign, so tonight I am venturing out to Ben's Jewish Deli in Rego Park Queens. NY..... Will be dining alone, but who cares when you are eatting a hot corned beef and brisket combo on Challah bread, with stuffed derma and gravy, and a kasha knish..... I have been fasting ALL day to make up for the calorie and cholesterol I'm about to put my body thru..... Of course I will go maskless while eatting, but otherwise mask will be on (once the mask comes off it defeats the purpose of the mask, so I really dont get this dine in thing ?) but what the hell. When in Rego Park.......EAT CORNED BEEF ! ?

It's good to have a dream, and even better when it comes true. Enjoy!

[handiacefailure]

Our governor raised the mask mandidate yesterday but every place I was at this morning still required them except the farmers market.

 

Most of the Anti-Vaxers are also Anti-Maskers anyway.

 

Seeing there are enough vaccines in my state and everyone can have one that wants one, as long as the vaccine protects vaxcinated from getting it, and even if it doesn't stop from spreading it, I'm ok with no masks, hard to feel sorry for the antivaxers if they get it.

 

I'm continuing to wear my masks in crowded places for now since people won't know if I'm vaxed or not and out of common courtesy.

[Scott Virginian]

I'm all for choice...

You could stop your sentence right there and it would be 100% right. If someone, even someone vaccinated, wants to wear a mask, for any reason including "fashion statement", I'm for leaving them alone.

 

How does a mask protect children? Or anyone for that matter?

When you write something like that, you leave me perplexed. After 14 months of this, do you really not know how a mask protects people? Am I misreading your question?

 

It's the unvaccinated children (or adults) that should be wearing the masks, right?

All children are currently unvaccinated, and won't be for at minimum another month and a half. Even if they get their Pfizer first shot today, "fully vaccinated" means two weeks past the second shot. That's effectively end of June. So none of them should be taking off their masks.

 

This was my key point:

 

The risk of a vaccinated adult passing the virus to an unvaccinated person (adult or child) is pretty low, but it isn't zero. If some vaccinated parent wants to wear a mask all day long to get that one extra percent of protection against passing the virus to their own children when they go home, who am I to tell them otherwise? But the anti-mask/anti-vax crowd, the Tucker Carlsons of the world, have already been prodding their followers to harass and attack mask wearers. The right-wing intimidation has already begun. Anti-maskers should not be going around telling people to take their masks off, because they have no idea what other circumstances that person faces.

[lonely_john]

Toronto is taking what I consider one of the best approaches:

Restrictions will remain until 70% of the population has had their 1st shot, and 20% the 2nd one.

The City already cancelled all summer events. Can't fix stupid.

Edited May 15, 2021 by lonely_john

[Luv2play]

Toronto is taking what I consider one of the best approaches:

Restrictions will remain until 70% of the population has had their 1st shot, and 20% the 2nd one.

The City already cancelled all summer events cancelled. Can't fix stupid.

The federal government said a couple of days ago that 75 per cent of people need to get at least one dose and 20 percent two doses before restrictions should start to be eased. Of course the provinces decide for themselves but I don’t think Toronto gets to decide for themselves. Premier Ford could overrule Mayor Tory.

 

Of course, local municipalities decide when and where to cancel local events but letting them proceed needs provincial approval.

[lonely_john]

The federal government said a couple of days ago that 75 per cent of people need to get at least one dose and 20 percent two doses before restrictions should start to be eased. Of course the provinces decide for themselves but I don’t think Toronto gets to decide for themselves. Premier Ford could overrule Mayor Tory.

 

Of course, local municipalities decide when and where to cancel local events but letting them proceed needs provincial approval.

Then I was mistaking the city for the federal government.

In any case, the recommendation only makes sense.

Luckily, I think Ford will be very careful due to the calls to resign.

I hope that, if they start to lift restrictions, is progressive and not all at once.

[Luv2play]

Then I was mistaking the city for the federal government.

In any case, the recommendation only makes sense.

Luckily, I think Ford will be very careful due to the calls to resign.

I hope that, if they start to lift restrictions, is progressive and not all at once.

From what I am reading, that is most likely to be the route they choose. I don’t think Canada is going to follow the US lead that the CDC is taking. Our COVID cases and deaths are one third of the US counts on a per capita basis and I don’t think they want to throw that away.

[BSR]

Now that the Nevada governor dropped the indoor mask mandate, businesses are dropping their mask requirement with lightning speed. As far as I know, the only corporation to keep its mask requirement is the supermarket chain Smith's (Kroger). I have no idea what percentage of mom & pop businesses are still requiring masks. As I expected, all of the casinos immediately ditched their mask requirement, some even before the governor's press conference where he officially lifted his executive order.

 

As of May 5, only 27.13% of Nevadans have been fully vaccinated, not a great number. In light of the relatively low percentage of vaccinated Nevadans, I will keep a close eye out for an increase in Covid hospitalizations & deaths.

 

While the governor could always re-issue his executive order mandating masks in indoor public places, I wonder what the compliance rate will be once people have ditched their masks.

[Guest]

On 5/15/2021 at 11:14 AM, Scott Virginian said:

All children are currently unvaccinated, and won't be for at minimum another month and a half. Even if they get their Pfizer first shot today, "fully vaccinated" means two weeks past the second shot. .... Anti-maskers should not be going around telling people to take their masks off, because they have no idea what other circumstances that person faces.

Well, I agree no one should criticize people for wearing masks, though there are appropriate forums for discussing whether masking is needed in certain circumstances. You're a bit off on the dates for the Pfizer immunization. If you're talking about the data from the original studies, Pfizer started looking at the data one week after the 2nd shot, which is 3 weeks after the 1st shot in that study, so it's 4 weeks from the 1st shot. Moderna started looking 2 weeks after the 2nd shot, which is 4 weeks after the 1st, so in that case it's 6 weeks after the first shot, if you really only trust randomized controlled trials.

I think most public health officials will acknowledge now, particularly after the UK "experiment" to focus on giving everyone one "jab," that real-world data now strongly suggests that almost all of the protection comes in 2 weeks after the 1st shot. In fact, it appears that delaying the 2nd shot probably leads to even better efficacy (though 95% is pretty good). Data strongly suggest that once you're over 2 weeks past the 1st shot, you won't be contagious, even if you contract the virus. 

[+ glutes]