Newbie Questions on Gay Relationships

[+ MysticMenace]

Apologies in advance to those that may be offended by this thread.

 

Being new to this journey, I am fascinated by the prospect of getting into a relationship, especially within a gay relationship. My only experience being in a relationship was when I was 12 - I courted my then girlfriend because that is what was considered the expected norm in a predominantly Roman Catholic country where I was raised back then. My perspective on relationships has been limited to that and to the experiences of my close heterosexual friends. I understand that experiences will be different, but certainly welcome all perspectives on the following questions:

• Is there a fundamental difference between a gay and heterosexual relationship? I would think not, but curious if some think there is.
  
• Are open relationships more acceptable among gay men, or is this a false presumption? What are the drivers for having an open relationship?
  
  • Is it grounded on a belief that humans are not meant to be monogamous?
    
  • Is it because one wants to compartmentalize certain aspects - like romance and companionship with the boyfriend and hot sex with a friend or stranger?
    
  • Is it because everything one wants in a person is there but sexual compatibility (e.g., both bottoms)?
    
  • Are there other reasons?
    

  [*]Is monogamous gay relationship an oxymoron, or can monogamous gay relationship exist?

  [*]Throupling...how does that work if it can work? How does one balance attention to two other men in that relationship?

  [*]Is building a family (i.e., having kids) more common or is the preference to grow old together?

Thank you in advance for any experiences or insights you are willing to share.

[Pittlookalike]

There are all sorts of gay relationships- closed, open, secret cheating, threesomes, with kids - just like heterosexual relationships.

 

My experience is that because- generally speaking- men are more realistic about sexual desire, and have sex based on looks and without emotion, much more so than women, there is more extramarital sex in gay male relationships than in heterosexual ones. This is just a generalization and not a hard and fast fact.

 

This is just my observation as a gay man with many years of experience under my belt and among my friends.

[CuriousByNature]

Apologies in advance to those that may be offended by this thread.

 

Being new to this journey, I am fascinated by the prospect of getting into a relationship, especially within a gay relationship. My only experience being in a relationship was when I was 12 - I courted my then girlfriend because that is what was considered the expected norm in a predominantly Roman Catholic country where I was raised back then. My perspective on relationships has been limited to that and to the experiences of my close heterosexual friends. I understand that experiences will be different, but certainly welcome all perspectives on the following questions:

• Is there a fundamental difference between a gay and heterosexual relationship? I would think not, but curious if some think there is.
  
• Are open relationships more acceptable among gay men, or is this a false presumption? What are the drivers for having an open relationship?
  
  • Is it grounded on a belief that humans are not meant to be monogamous?
    
  • Is it because one wants to compartmentalize certain aspects - like romance and companionship with the boyfriend and hot sex with a friend or stranger?
    
  • Is it because everything one wants in a person is there but sexual compatibility (e.g., both bottoms)?
    
  • Are there other reasons?
    

  [*]Is monogamous gay relationship an oxymoron, or can monogamous gay relationship exist?

  [*]Throupling...how does that work if it can work? How does one balance attention to two other men in that relationship?

  [*]Is building a family (i.e., having kids) more common or is the preference to grow old together?

Thank you in advance for any experiences or insights you are willing to share.

I wish I could offer advice based on experience, but the fact is, I have never had a romantic relationship or encounter with anyone, male or female. But I imagine there are as many types of relationships as there are people, whether gay or straight. No doubt people will generalize about one demographic over another, but there are always those individuals/couples who will not fit within those generalizations. The nature and character of a relationship with one person may be opposite to another one had that person had chosen someone else. There are too many variables that make up a relationship to draw any firm correlatons or causations, but you raise some interesting considerations for sure. But what do I know? I've never even been on a date ?

[+ Charlie]

Monogamous gay relationships can work if that is what both partners want, just as with male/female relationships. However, most men are sexually attracted to multiple other men, and the factors that encourage monogamy in straight relationships are weak or non-existent in most gay relationships. Until recently, gay men didn't have the legal ties of marriage to complicate their relationships. They also didn't have the social pressures, from either the general public or the gay community, to be sexually "faithful" to their partners that a male/female couple have. Until fairly recently, they also didn't have children to complicate their formal or informal relationships (and didn't have to be concerned about getting casual sex partners pregnant). The social normalization of gay couplehood is probably pushing more gay men to act like straight couples, or feel they should act like straight couples, but sexual promiscuity will probably always be more common in gay relationships than straight ones.

 

My spouse and I met back in the dark ages when it was illegal to engage in homosexual relations with anyone, and the relationship between two men was usually knowledge shared only with close friends. We were monogamous for about two weeks, after which we both admitted that we wanted to be free to indulge our lusts for other men, because monogamy felt unnatural for us. We also agreed that if one of us became emotionally attached to someone else, the other would step back and let that relationship develop however it did. Each of us had a few passionate affairs with other men over the years, but always concluded that our relationship with one another was more important to us than any other, and we ended the affair without regrets. And we had lots of just casual sex with others. It worked for us--it might not have worked the same way for another couple.

 

I have known couples who evolved into "thruples," but they have always been awkward situations that usually ended with one person leaving or being pushed out, or at least being unhappy with the situation.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Charlie

[+ Coolwave35]

I’ve been with my husband 12 years and married 7 and a half. When we met, around the 3rd or 4th date, I told him upfront that monogamy wasn’t for me, and that I’d never want children. I said everything else was negotiable. We continued dating.

 

Before we got engaged, at the 4 year mark, I reminded him about those two conditions though he said he remembered.

 

We did 11 months of premarital counseling where we worked out how our open marriage would look, from boundaries to specific people that were off limits and a whole host of other things that come up around open marriages. We worked out how our finances would look commingled, how we’d spend holidays, whose name would change etc. We talked about jealousy, how sexual desire for another person made us feel and we confronted all of it.

 

We also attended a great workshop by Dave Allen called embracing your desire which helped us express how to ask for things sexually.

 

With all of that ground work, I still think I have a bad marriage. He’s absolutely, beyond a doubt, my best friend, he’s fiercely loyal and we look out for each other, but there is something missing. With all the marriage has, there’s also much that it lacks. I can’t imagine my life without him, but I don’t see him in my future it’s really weird.

[Bargara Leatherboy]

The advantage is that you can design your relationship around what works for both of you.

 

I know many gay couples who are strictly monogamous.

 

I know many gay couples who are open.

 

My views on open relationships is that your base has to be very secure to survive. For instance both of you would always default to each other, and that no jealousy exists. Some people manage this well, for others its an unhappy place.

 

I have been with my husband for 27 years, we play to our strenghts. I manage all our finances, joint accounts and pay all the bills. I don’t make major decisions alone, we discuss them. I do all the shopping, I book our holidays etc, but again we have a discussion before i do that. My husband does 95% of the cooking, all the cleaning, laundry ironing etc, I do some yard work but he does most of it.

 

He is my best friend and outside our home we are 100 %loyal to each other. Even if I did not agree with something my husband says or does I would always support him. I might tell him what I think when we get in the car or get home, but we have each other’s backs.

 

One of the reason gay men will play away , is that sometimes couples have different interests sexually, a couple may have fantastic earth moving vanilla sex, but one partner likes leather for instance, the other does not. So the leather boy will go out to leather bars - or hook ups with leather boys and that’s cool.

 

Again its up to you to discuss with your partner and make it work for you.

[jeezifonly]

All of that, is okay for ideals and goals

 

For a relationship that will actually last consider:

 

Sense of humor - make each other laugh at least once every day. I cannot stress this enough, regardless of gender or orientation

 

Loading the dishwasher wrong will never change. Get over it.

 

My husband and I have been together 32 years.

 

Twenty of them since May.

[+ MysticMenace]

I’ve been with my husband 12 years and married 7 and a half. When we met, around the 3rd or 4th date, I told him upfront that monogamy wasn’t for me, and that I’d never want children. I said everything else was negotiable. We continued dating.

 

Before we got engaged, at the 4 year mark, I reminded him about those two conditions though he said he remembered.

 

We did 11 months of premarital counseling where we worked out how our open marriage would look, from boundaries to specific people that were off limits and a whole host of other things that come up around open marriages. We worked out how our finances would look commingled, how we’d spend holidays, whose name would change etc. We talked about jealousy, how sexual desire for another person made us feel and we confronted all of it.

 

We also attended a great workshop by Dave Allen called embracing your desire which helped us express how to ask for things sexually.

 

With all of that ground work, I still think I have a bad marriage. He’s absolutely, beyond a doubt, my best friend, he’s fiercely loyal and we look out for each other, but there is something missing. With all the marriage has, there’s also much that it lacks. I can’t imagine my life without him, but I don’t see him in my future it’s really weird.

 

@Coolwave35, apologies if the follow-up is intrusive and certainly do not intend this to be a public therapy session. However, was curious to know why one stays in a marriage if you think you're in a bad one. Is it the convenience of staying or inconvenience of not? Is it because you are able to self-provision the "missing stuff" with your current setup? Is it something that is openly discussed with the husband to figure out and solve for the root cause?

[+ MysticMenace]

Thank you folks for being open and sharing your experiences in this forum. I am learning a lot from this.

 

My views on open relationships is that your base has to be very secure to survive. For instance both of you would always default to each other, and that no jealousy exists. Some people manage this well, for others its an unhappy place.

 

We also agreed that if one of us became emotionally attached to someone else, the other would step back and let that relationship develop however it did.

 

As you mentioned, @westernsyd, some people manage this differently, but how does a couple guarantee that no jealousy would exist in the relationship? Wouldn't each individual have to be honest on their capacity or propensity to be jealous, or is this setup more of a ground rule? It may sound stupid, but should the partner be expected to stop engaging with another man if the other partner expressed his jealousy, even if such ground rule was previously established? I guess it would be to your first point that both should default to each other, although it sounds like to @Charlie's account, allowing someone to follow through on exploring that relationship could work as well assuming that the relationship base is secure enough to survive those circumstances.

[Bargara Leatherboy]

I guess this comes down to honesty and how good the communication skills are.

 

If partner A says I want an open relationship, Partner B says I could not stand the idea of someone else inside your butt, or I don’t want someone else’s lips on your cock, does Partner A agree to compromise, or does Partnear A move on.

 

I know that when I entered my relationship at age 32, I would have opted for a monogamous relationship , yet at age 60 I know that If i played with a different man, it would not impact on how I feel about my husband of 27 years. However i know that my partner still believes that monogamy is the only way to go.

 

So it all depends on how mature and open to discussion each partner is.

 

In some cases that may end the relationship.

 

However people change and sometimes years later you are not compatible.

 

there is no definitive answer or solution.

 

There will always be gay men who are stuck in relationships they are not happy in, just like heterosexual marriages and relationships. For whatever reason.....

 

Personal choice reigns

[+ Coolwave35]

@Coolwave35why one stays in a marriage if you think you're in a bad one. Is it the convenience of staying or inconvenience of not? Is it because you are able to self-provision the "missing stuff" with your current setup? Is it something that is openly discussed with the husband to figure out and solve for the root cause?

 

I wouldn’t put it all out there if I wasn’t willing to talk about it.

 

I’m staying because it’s a great partnership, and there is a lot of assets to split. Divorce is messy and final which sucks. I also don’t know what a good marriage looks like. I’ve never seen one. Mine is A LOT better than most. Their is mutual respect and we travel really well together.

 

I also have a lot of freedom and can ask for what I want and typically get it. I’d like him to be more into what I’m into, and adventurous, but that’s not him.

 

we discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our marriage often. It doesn’t lead to resolution but we chat a lot.

[rvwnsd]

• Is there a fundamental difference between a gay and heterosexual relationship? I would think not, but curious if some think there is.
  

Not all same-gender relationships are the same just as not all mixed-gender relationships are the same.

 

...Are open relationships more acceptable among gay men, or is this a false presumption?...

I don't think they are more acceptable among gay men than they are among straight men. However, I do think men (regardless of sexual orientation) are more open to having sex outside of their primary relationship than are women. Based on my experience with friends and hook-ups, men are less accepting of their partner being the one to have sex outside of the relationship than they are of themselves having sex outside of the relationship.

...What are the drivers for having an open relationship?

• Is it grounded on a belief that humans are not meant to be monogamous?
  
• Is it because one wants to compartmentalize certain aspects - like romance and companionship with the boyfriend and hot sex with a friend or stranger?
  
• Is it because everything one wants in a person is there but sexual compatibility (e.g., both bottoms)?
  
• Are there other reasons?...
  

The answers will vary by couple and by individual. My advice is to Google "same-sex open relationship studies." Someone has got to have done a study or two.

 

...Is monogamous gay relationship an oxymoron, or can monogamous gay relationship exist?...

Of course they can, just like opposite-sex relationships can be non-monogamous.

 

...Throupling...how does that work if it can work? How does one balance attention to two other men in that relationship?...

Once again, the answers will vary. This one really is best answered through a research study. That said, a few years ago, the San Diego LGBT Times decided to put a throuple on the cover of its issue about same-sex marriage. Let's just say the reaction was not kind. The good news is the editor-in-chief only suffered mild rope burns and a little singing around the edges of his shoes. Apparently, when the guys tied him to the stake they miscalculated the distance required between him and the firewood to cause any real damage.

 

...Is building a family (i.e., having kids) more common or is the preference to grow old together?

This question implies a couple has to make a choice between raising children and growing old together. A couple, regardless of sexual orientation and/or the gender of the people involved, can raise children and grow old together. They can do so sequentially or simultaneously, depending upon their age when the children are brought into the family.

[Redwine56]

I wouldn’t put it all out there if I wasn’t willing to talk about it.

 

I’m staying because it’s a great partnership, and there is a lot of assets to split. Divorce is messy and final which sucks. I also don’t know what a good marriage looks like. I’ve never seen one. Mine is A LOT better than most. Their is mutual respect and we travel really well together.

 

I also have a lot of freedom and can ask for what I want and typically get it. I’d like him to be more into what I’m into, and adventurous, but that’s not him.

 

we discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our marriage often. It doesn’t lead to resolution but we chat a lot.

Coolwave35 - from what you've shared, it seems to me that you have a good marriage. Perhaps, even better than you realize it to be. You've done everything right from the time and effort you guys put into it prior to tying the knot to the seemingly great communication you continue to have. From the outside looking in, it seems like you have a solid foundation and truly care for each other deep down. Don't throw that all away. Some never find that in a lifetime. I felt compelled to share my sentiments. I wish you well.

[caramelsub]

I don’t think I can ever be in a monogamous relationship. I just can’t see myself having sex with only one person for the rest of my life.

[+ Coolwave35]

Coolwave35 - from what you've shared, it seems to me that you have a good marriage. Perhaps, even better than you realize it to be. You've done everything right from the time and effort you guys put into it prior to tying the knot to the seemingly great communication you continue to have. From the outside looking in, it seems like you have a solid foundation and truly care for each other deep down. Don't throw that all away. Some never find that in a lifetime. I felt compelled to share my sentiments. I wish you well.

 

thank you. It is definitely better than most but there’s a lot that it lacks, or feels like it lacks at different points. It definitely has its pluses too. I appreciate the encouragement.

[+ WilliamM]

All of that, is okay for ideals and goals

 

 

 

My husband and I have been together 32 years.

 

Twenty of them since May.

 

Truly wonderful response

Edited November 4, 2020 by WilliamM

[Redwine56]

thank you. It is definitely better than most but there’s a lot that it lacks, or feels like it lacks at different points. It definitely has its pluses too. I appreciate the encouragement.

I think that is normal. Life has it ups and downs in almost every which way we turn. We strive for stability but somehow competing forces get in the way. I think it is a matter of how we react to bring things back on course. Communication is key to every social connection. From the plumber who comes to check out your pipes (no pun intended) to your spouse. If you can have a civil discussion and speak to each other with mutual respect, you're going to work it out amicably. When people stop communicating, they are giving up in the relationship and that's when you create the great divide which usually leads to going your separate ways. No one said life is easy. You have to work at what and who you believe in.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Redwine56

[+ JEC]

Joe, welcome to the (gay) club.

 

As others have said, gay relationships are all over the map, probably much more variety that with traditional M/F relationships. I have been with my (now) husband 32 years, and even our single relationship has gone through many phases over the years. We started as an "in love" young monogamous couple. After a few years, we started playing with others but always together. We even tried a throuple relationship for a short period, that didn't work at all for us. Then, we decide to stop the "playing" with others out of health concerns. Over time, our own relationship evolved to one not including a lot of sex, though our emotionally bond continued to deepen. Many years later, I got into this hobby.

 

Over the years, my thoughts about gay VS straight relationships have also evolved from thinking (1) they have nothing in common with straight relationships to (2) they have a LOT in common to my current thinking (3) some of each.

 

(Wading into deep water here). I think the main difference between gay & straight couples is the nature of the emotional bond. There is a largely established order of the male and female roles in relationships, in M:M relationships there may be naturally dominant and submissive roles or it may be a partnership of equals. Also, the emotional aspect of M:M relationships are different simply b/c men are wired differently than women emotionally.

 

As others have touch upon, most men are sexual beings in very different ways than most women, and that is a factor.

 

When we were first together I read this book, and thought it was very helpful at the time:

https://www.amazon.com/Male-Couple-How-Relationships-Develop/dp/0135475635

 

Might be worth a read, good luck.

Edited November 5, 2020 by JEC

[rocky]

This is a difficult subject for me, one that I've been criticized for before. Sorry, if you're married having an open relationship doesn't hit me the right way. Marriage is marriage, for better or worse. I have the same thoughts of a heterosexual couple. If you don't want that commitment, stay single, and go on grindr saying, happily married, husband doesn't mind if I screw around. doesn't sound like a sound marriage to me

[+ Charlie]

Although I may have made it sound like we worked everything out right at the beginning of our relationship, it was not really true. The first ten years were the most difficult, as both of us learned to adjust to our expectations of one another and of ourselves. I learned, for instance that he experienced more jealousy than either of us expected from him, and I wanted more freedom than I thought I would. We actually separated for one year and lived in different countries, although we continued to own a home together, and each of us had a serious relationship with another person while we were separated. Yet at the end of that year, we both re-committed to our primary relationship, and after that avoided romantic entanglements with other men. There were two other occasions that we lived apart for an extended period during the following two decades, yet each of those times we agreed ahead of time that it would be a temporary separation, and we both felt confident that was true. Every decade has been somewhat different, because people change as they develop, and no relationship is totally stable forever. Sex itself became a less important issue for both of us over the years, as I think it does with most people--gay or straight--and certainly wasn't the foundation of our informal or eventual legal marriage. After the first 45 years, we knew it was "till death do us part," so we made it official. That doesn't necessarily mean a happy ending: as he slips away into Alzheimer's dementia, I realize that at some point he may no longer understand what our relationship is, but it will still be there.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Charlie

[+ MysticMenace]

Thank you everyone for your openness and vulnerability in sharing your experiences. I am learning quite a lot of lessons here.

[nomad]

There's not formula that works for everyone. You have to figure out what you need and want out of the relationship.

 

My husband is my best friend. 25 years and counting. Can't imagine life without him. We have very different interests and give each other the freedom to be ourselves. It doesn't mean we don't have problems. Anyone who has been in one long enough knows there are bumps along the road. It's figuring out how you navigate it and deciding if you want to stay on the same journey.

 

3 years ago, I felt the desire to venture into hiring an escort. Be lying if I said I could tell you exactly why then after all these years. Live out some Euro fantasy. I blame Belami for it. ? Months of scouting ads trying to find the ONE. The person I hired was beyond physically perfect. Could be clone of Pavel Novotny. Flew him out to Thailand for a long weekend to get it out of my system. Was so intimidated when I saw him naked for the first time. Felt so conflicted. Didn't end up doing anything at all the whole trip. Could have lived out all my fantasies and yet I didn't when push came to shove. He became a great friend.

 

Caused all sorts of problems. Went to a relationship therapist. Still working on our relationship each day. Still my best friend.