Would you forgive an abusive parent?

[Guest]

On my flight back home a few days ago, I watched the movie Rocketman, which showed Sir Elton John's father as mean and abusive to him when he was a child. Then Mr. John later goes to him as an adult, and tries to win his affection by giving him an expensive watch. The father responds by treating him like shit again. I'm not sure how accurate that story is, but, assuming it is, I can't imagine doing what Sir Elton did. Maybe I'm just fortunate in having had decent parents, but if my father mistreated me the way Elton John's father apparently did, I wouldn't speak to him unless and until the father made amends first. Why set myself up for further abuse? How would you have responded? Do you feel abusive parents have the duty to ask for forgiveness first? Or should the adult children keep up contact, hoping the parent turned a new leaf, but didn't ask for forgiveness somehow?

[mike carey]

An interesting question, and one that is most likely never to be able to be answered by someone who didn't have an abusive parent. We can never know whether the instinct to love a parent regardless could be negated by their disdain or abuse, and how much it would take, and whether the response would be anger or an effort to dismiss them from our lives. Our entire lives shape who we are, and we cannot escape our pasts, be that an unhappy childhood or an unsuccessful relationship. They can be in the past but they cannot be completely escaped any less than they can be forgotten, and perhaps because they cannot be forgotten. This is what is at the centre of the lifetime of trauma children who suffered sexual abuse can endure. On this theme, in response to a discussion on the radio about whether a divorce 'ends' a marriage someone texted in that it was only when their ex had died that they finally were 'free'. Maybe, as the radio host remarked, it's only in their death that a child can be free of a parent who mistreated them.

[rvwnsd]

This question hits home for me because my father was frequently verbally abusive. The kicker was he would defend my brother and me when he saw an injustice committed against us at school. That said, the damage done has taken years and years to become less raw. To this day I still suffer the effects, although not nearly as much as when I was a young adult. He apologized at one point and I told him I forgave him, but the fact is I hadn't completely forgiven him. At this point, almost nine years after his death, I've finally forgiven him.

[Populist Fury]

No. I can't even imagine what it'd be like.

 

I was lucky to be born into a tradional marriage with good loving parents. Actually wish my dad had been tougher on us when we were younger.

[MscleLovr]

I had an abusive mother.

 

It was not possible in later life for me to forgive her. We did manage to have a couple of long talks together as she neared the end of her life.

 

What it has meant for me is that as an adult, I’ve had to work hard at being loving and caring as a person. Tho I always try not be judgemental and critical, it has left me quite intolerant of cruelty and nasty people.

[Ryan Roman]

The topic of abusive parents keeps coming up in my own personal universe over the past six months, so I'll share my own experiences. Despite my parents being divorced by the time I was five, both of my parents were verbally and physically abusive. With my mother, I can rationalize why she behaved the way she did/does (the physical abuse stopped when I was 16, the verbal abuse never has). I wouldn't say I've forgiven her; I keep her at arm's length, minimalize my interactions with her, and "check her" when she starts to become verbally abusive. As for my father and his second wife... They were beyond abusive. One could argue they're evil (my father's wife being the Mastermind; and my father being the enforcer). I can't step foot into their house as a 43 year old man (that happened this past June, and I insisted on speaking to my father in the driveway). When I was in my 20s, I tried to forgive, but again, the abuse continued, so by 24, I stopped trying. I have minimal interaction with my father's family (they all knew what was going on but "didn't want to get involved"). I know becoming a sex worker, getting through undergraduate college and graduate school, and my person relationships have all been affected by having abusive parents. Sometime you can't forgive; sometimes, you just have to accept it as fact, and try to find way to accept who they are and try to live your best possible life... At least that's what I've tried to do in my life... But that's easier said than done.

[+ E.T.Bass]

An interesting question, and one that is most likely never to be able to be answered by someone who didn't have an abusive parent. We can never know whether the instinct to love a parent regardless could be negated by their disdain or abuse, and how much it would take, and whether the response would be anger or an effort to dismiss them from our lives. Our entire lives shape who we are, and we cannot escape our pasts, be that an unhappy childhood or an unsuccessful relationship. They can be in the past but they cannot be completely escaped any less than they can be forgotten, and perhaps because they cannot be forgotten. This is what is at the centre of the lifetime of trauma children who suffered sexual abuse can endure. On this theme, in response to a discussion on the radio about whether a divorce 'ends' a marriage someone texted in that it was only when their ex had died that they finally were 'free'. Maybe, as the radio host remarked, it's only in their death that a child can be free of a parent who mistreated them.

 

That reminds me how many times I've read where a man didn't feel free to come out of the closet until his mother had died. is that sad? I think it certainly says something relating to being free of a parent,

But I'm tired of these threads where halfway down inevitably there are two or three members compelled to join in and point out that we don't know what the fuck we are talking about. "This is why I never listen to advice on here," they say. LMFAO I say.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Unfortunately, often times the abuser doesn’t know how to ask for forgiveness. Often it takes the victim opening the communication channel before the abuser can ask for forgiveness.

[Rudynate]

Almost no one had an ideal upbringing. The number of people who say they grew up in a dysfunctional family is astonishing.

 

My mother was extremely narcissistic and/or may have had borderline personality disorder. I realised shortly after I left home that it was impossible to have a normal relationship with her. I completely excluded her from my life for nearly 15 years.

 

I eventually realized that, for my own well being and growth as a person, it was important for me to at least go through the motions of a normal relationship with her, knowing that it was likely to be frustrating and disappointing.

 

I started doing all the things a child would do for a mother that he really

cared about-cards, phone calls, regular visits, an occasional vacation together, sending her money regularly and so on, knowing all the while that I was doing it for myself and not for her.

 

She died a few years ago. Her death was mildly painful, but I was over it in a couple weeks. I don't miss her particularly, but there's nothing that I wish I would have done differenly, nothing I wish I would have said that I didn't say. The whole thing is complete for me.

[MscleLovr]

I started doing all the things a child would do for a mother that he really

cared about....knowing all the while that I was doing it for myself and not for her.

 

I can really relate to this @Rudynate. As an adult I did the same. My rationale was entirely selfish; I did not want to feel guilty in any way once she died. And I too do not miss my mother.

[rvwnsd]

...I was lucky to be born into a traditional marriage with good loving parents...

Funny you mention the traditional marriage. I was one of the few kids in my school whose parents were not divorced. I think things would have been better for my brother, mother, and me had she divorced my dad. He was not the primary wagearner (after losing his job he returned to being a freelance artist) but took care of the house, which was a good thing because I learned many DIY skills from him. Also learned when NOT to DIY.

 

...Actually wish my dad had been tougher on us when we were younger.

Again, funny you mention this, because in terms of "punishment for doing something wrong" he was the less harsh parent. Heaven forbid one of us cut the grass, raked the leaves, walked down the sidewalk, manged our carers, or other non-infractions the wrong way.

 

Crazy, isn't it?

 

I had an abusive mother.

 

It was not possible in later life for me to forgive her. We did manage to have a couple of long talks together as she neared the end of her life....

I'm glad you were able to have a few talks with your mother. I found it beneficial for me to talk with my dad. What made it easier to forgive him (LONG after we talked and several years after he died) was seeing the abuse his sister heaped on her daughter (my cousin). Both my father and his sister were engaging, funny people that everyone LOVED hanging out with. They were also deeply mentally ill and lived in their own constructed realities. Also, he reacted extremely well when I came out at age 33. Essentially, he thanked me and asked if he and my mom could meet the guy I was seeing at the time. The guy and I broke up shortly thereafter.

 

...What it has meant for me is that as an adult, I’ve had to work hard at being loving and caring as a person. Tho I always try not be judgemental and critical, it has left me quite intolerant of cruelty and nasty people.

I work very, very hard at not being judgmental and overly critical. Sometimes I succeed, often I fail. What works for me is recognizing the triggers and avoiding triggering events. I've also learned when to and when not to engage with people. A therapist once suggested that I give myself permission to take a time-out when it seems I might lash out. It is hard to do but it works.

[+ g56whiz]

My father wasn't particularly abusive but he certainly was distant. He never played catch, we went to only one ball game, we went fishing only once (and all we caught was pneumonia). But there was never a sign he was anything other than loving. It took me a long time to realize that he was probably afraid of "commitment". His father was an abusive drunk who left his two sons to raise each other. Moreover when I was 5 months old, sister died of asthma just shy of 3 years old. I was and only child and asthmatic. Can hardly blame him. My mother had a similar dismal childhood shared with three sisters. Once they eloped, my parents moved away from their families and shared a loving relationship for 50 years and 8 weeks until my father died. During his final illness my father suffered a brief lack of oxygen that caused a mild brain injury. In his final weeks he was demonstrably affectionate, and expressed concern for how I would remember him. Ironically, it was my parents great love for each other that caused me to come out. As I approached 40, I realized that I really wanted what they shared and to get that I had to deal honestly with my sexuality. I've now had 30 years of what they had. Thank you Mother and Father.

[Rudynate]

I can really relate to this @Rudynate. As an adult I did the same. My rationale was entirely selfish; I did not want to feel guilty in any way once she died. And I too do not miss my mother.

 

My mother was a very toxic person, extremely judgmental and actually thought the whole rest of the world envied her for one reason or another. She had a weird hole in her personality - almost completely incapable of empathy. She had a very cynical view of marriage in which one person is the other's ball and chain, with the ball and chain holding the other one back from the life they were meant to lead. Usually the wife was the ball and chain, but in her case, my father was the ball and chain holding her back from doing great things.

[+ sync]

My single mom was one of the most forgiving, loving, and empathic people I have ever known. Apparently, it skips generations. If/when anyone is abusive towards me, they are dead to me. My dismissal of the abuse(s) is not immediate, however, which is why I have never allowed myself access to guns. So, I guess my answer to the thread question "would I forgive," I would have to say "no."

[+ poolboy48220]

My paternal grandmother was a pretty vicious person. Always making subtle digs at my mother, and some of the stories my father told about growing up were pretty scary. She stayed with us for a week or so when I was 10 or 11, while my mother was in the hospital, and we experienced some of it first-hand. Big stuff and little - hitting my two-year-old sister with a shoe because she answered the phone. Watching Psycho with her on TV, and in the shower scene, she says "you know that's really that Norman guy, not his mother". When she died, my aunt told my father "She finally can't hurt anyone anymore".

[+ g56whiz]

The question might also be would you forgive your abusive parent if you understood how and why they took on their abusive attributes? Dysfunction in families can often be traced back generations and alcohol is frequently a factor often traceable back thru generations. That is why misuse of alcohol (and drugs) is sometimes traced to a hormonal imbalance. It’s easier to forgive biology.

[RM]

I guess I'm lucky. I know nothing about abusive parents or relatives.

[Guy Fawkes]

No. I disowned my family decades ago and haven't had any contact in that time. I'm better off without them.

 

On my flight back home a few days ago, I watched the movie Rocketman, which showed Sir Elton John's father as mean and abusive to him when he was a child. Then Mr. John later goes to him as an adult, and tries to win his affection by giving him an expensive watch. The father responds by treating him like shit again. I'm not sure how accurate that story is, but, assuming it is, I can't imagine doing what Sir Elton did. Maybe I'm just fortunate in having had decent parents, but if my father mistreated me the way Elton John's father apparently did, I wouldn't speak to him unless and until the father made amends first. Why set myself up for further abuse? How would you have responded? Do you feel abusive parents have the duty to ask for forgiveness first? Or should the adult children keep up contact, hoping the parent turned a new leaf, but didn't ask for forgiveness somehow?

[marylander1940]

On my flight back home a few days ago, I watched the movie Rocketman, which showed Sir Elton John's father as mean and abusive to him when he was a child. Then Mr. John later goes to him as an adult, and tries to win his affection by giving him an expensive watch. The father responds by treating him like shit again. I'm not sure how accurate that story is, but, assuming it is, I can't imagine doing what Sir Elton did. Maybe I'm just fortunate in having had decent parents, but if my father mistreated me the way Elton John's father apparently did, I wouldn't speak to him unless and until the father made amends first. Why set myself up for further abuse? How would you have responded? Do you feel abusive parents have the duty to ask for forgiveness first? Or should the adult children keep up contact, hoping the parent turned a new leaf, but didn't ask for forgiveness somehow?

 

It’s hard to judge what we would do in extreme circumstances. Blood is thicker than water but there are limits... possibly Elton John’s father was a homophobic, bitter loser and a watch wast going to make it up for him.

[marylander1940]

My paternal grandmother was a pretty vicious person. Always making subtle digs at my mother, and some of the stories my father told about growing up were pretty scary. She stayed with us for a week or so when I was 10 or 11, while my mother was in the hospital, and we experienced some of it first-hand. Big stuff and little - hitting my two-year-old sister with a shoe because she answered the phone. Watching Psycho with her on TV, and in the shower scene, she says "you know that's really that Norman guy, not his mother". When she died, my aunt told my father "She finally can't hurt anyone anymore".

 

Coulda woulda shoulda! I would have beaten the shit out if that sociopath bitch and told I fo unto others as they do unto me. Your dad and aunt needed some punishment for allowing her to get close to you.

[+ honcho]

Both of my parents were terribly self-centered (and were divorced when I was 11). My mother was academically brilliant and totally lacking in common sense. My father was a driven businessman who had a fierce competitive streak and a lot of conservative values. We had a falling out when I was 50, and I told him to disinherit me. He did, and we only spoke once in the past 17 years. With him, it sprin's not a matter of forgiveness; we are both better off out of each other's life and not causing each other any emotional pain.

 

My mom passed away last spring; she was significantly demented but in total denial about it, and refused to give anybody power of attorney in either health of financial matters, and had completely exhausted her savings. My sister got along with her growing up even less well than I did, currently lives in Paris france, 9 time zones away and had a clinically schizophrenic son of her own. So she was in no position financially or emotionally to offer anything other than "I'm sure glad you're taking care of this" kind of support.

 

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to forgive my mother ... I feel a little bit guilty that life seems so much easier now that she's gone, but the overwhelming emotion is relief. Time will tell. I'm getting absolutely no guilt-trips from my sister about it.

[+ E.T.Bass]

Not that I have any proof yet, but forgiveness is for your own benefit, so they say.

 

Also, still giving a shit what the family thinks is often a terrible place to remain stuck.

 

 

 

 

(across the globe, members race to their keyboards to whine, 'this is why I never listen to advice on here.' to them I say I heard it on Oprah!!!!)

 

[Walker1]

My parents were pretty decent, but just in terms of being gay -didn't believe such a thing existed. The same for people around me-you grow up, get married, have kids and if things were bad -have something on the side.

 

It was a different time and they were more worried about making a living and providing for us -survival stuff. Not nasty or abusive-just their beleif system was different and I knew I was attracted to men , but didn't know what that meant -as in why I got excited by the men in porn or jacked off to men. I tried to hide it and finally out when I moved to a liberal/open area.

 

But I find-for me-expecting someone to acknwledge what they did is futile. Many people lack self awareness and function from some idea/belief. For me, I decide what I will put up with and which lines they cannot cross and then I decide to keep people in my life-knowing full well they will not change. In a way, it has made me more tolerant, peaceful accepting people for who they are and not filled with rage and anger-as I used to be.

 

Nobody is perfect and I can get to choose who I hang out with-warts and all. I was reading every year there 300+ million people born and 100+ million people dead-so before you know it it will be ours or our relatives time. So just accept life and that people are not perfect and will function tot he best of your ability-figure out what you can tolerate and what you can't and what needs changing and life is swell! especially when I had kids, people who I thought were bigots in my family reached out first to help and never a comment about how I went about having the kids-which was shocking.

 

Most people are muddling through trying to figure out this thing called life!

[MscleLovr]

Just to add to the original post by @Unicorn...

 

I’m reading Elton John’s newly-published memoir. To me, it’s not just his father who was abusive; his mother was equally abusive. He describes his parents’ marriage as “toxic”.

 

To give just one example about his mother, EJ writes “ ...she'd toilet-trained me by hitting me with a wire brush until I bled if I didn't use the potty.”

[Monarchy79]

On my flight back home a few days ago, I watched the movie Rocketman, which showed Sir Elton John's father as mean and abusive to him when he was a child. Then Mr. John later goes to him as an adult, and tries to win his affection by giving him an expensive watch. The father responds by treating him like shit again. I'm not sure how accurate that story is, but, assuming it is, I can't imagine doing what Sir Elton did. Maybe I'm just fortunate in having had decent parents, but if my father mistreated me the way Elton John's father apparently did, I wouldn't speak to him unless and until the father made amends first. Why set myself up for further abuse? How would you have responded? Do you feel abusive parents have the duty to ask for forgiveness first? Or should the adult children keep up contact, hoping the parent turned a new leaf, but didn't ask for forgiveness somehow?

 

In any type of relationship, the person in the wrong should apologize, and atone... unfortunately, in many cases, that doesn’t happen.... leaving people with a few choices:

 

1.) “Forgiving” in the sense of “letting it go”, and accepting the person’s wrongdoing and being the nice guy... this typically fails as the person is never acknowledged for what they did wrong, and the person who received the poor treatment and abuse never got the validation of an apology at the least (in the long term, this falls apart, and the cycle continues)

 

2.) Hold a permanent grudge, and seek revenge for validation. The “high”, from making things even is temporary, and the emotional energy spent hating someone is quite taxing. (I know this from personal experience)

 

3.) Forgive, FOR YOU, and let the experience, the person, and the hurt GO...

 

forgiveness is about you, and the weight that’s lifted off of your souls when you forgive is astounding. You can forgive, wish the person well, and never interact with them again. You can forgive, and completely remove the person out of your life forever as well. But by all means... forgive.