MscleLovr

Thanks for this. I’ll be sure to watch the documentary. Without your detailed post, it would not have appealed to me.

Welcome here @slvkguy. I too have read your comments on the other site. I feel there are helpful people on both sites, so your informative reports will be welcome here.

It was an academic study I read. Researchers had interviewed guys who frequented and dressed appropriately for leather bars. It was a survey of IIRC 250-300 self-defined leather fetishists who were prepared to answer questions on their education, occupation, other interests etc.

Most people in a bar or a club are pleasant and nice, in my view. And to answer the question you pose in the thread-title, it’s usually easy to tell me if a guy isn’t interested. You have to venture some conversation, smile and pay him a small compliment (Never tell a real looker that he’s handsome - he knows. And never tell a hot guy guy that you think he’s hot - he’s heard that many times before) If he smiles in acknowledgment but doesn’t respond to you @nycboi, move on as he’s not interested. That’s a difficult arena in which to meet a guy. Perhaps you could try talking to guys in bars etc to increase your confidence and become comfortable with small talk? How did you discover this? It’s not been my experience. Unless you engage and have a good conversation, you can’t possibly know this about a man. I’d rather you focus on being the best possible version of yourself. Make sure you’re very well-groomed and nicely-dressed before you go out. You don’t need dazzling conversation skills, but you do need to smile and be approachable. Everyone typically responds well to a flattering question. Years ago, I once picked up a leather-clad hunk, such as you describe, in a club - I simply said to him that I’d recently read a psychological study which found that men with a leather fetish were of above average intelligence and tended to have intellectual interests. I asked if he agreed? He laughed and confessed he was a lecturer in Romance studies at an Ivy League college.

I know nothing about Aaron Carter, but this thread caused me to read a little about him. I found that he had declared himself to be “California sober”. I read further on the meaning of that term. It’s used to describe people who give up their use of hard drugs and just continue to use marijuana. Given that marijuana nowadays is so much stronger than 40 years ago (when the majority of posters were undergraduates and presumably experimented), I’m staggered that continued use of marijuana can be considered “sober”.

You know him better than anyone @Coolwave35. To me, he sounds like a pushy little bottom who needs to be reminded you’re in charge. Tell him you’ll do what you want to him, depending on your mood. Tell him you’ll put your load where you want, once you decide. Tell him what to wear, and be very specific. For example: if you want him in a jockstrap, specify the colour and make; if you want him in white briefs, specify low-slung jeans to show the brand. if you want him to wear a shirt, specify the colour and the number of buttons he should leave open to show his pecs It might be very enjoyable to take your sub shopping 😉

No @Snbrd the OP did specify “department store”. So I can’t relate how 8 years ago I went to a gay-clothing store on Oxford Street, Sydney… to buy a new Speedo. It was quiet and the cute assistant suggested I try on different coloured Speedos. He walked into the fitting room and got on his knees to “check the fit”

Yes. I had two such muscleboy-bottoms, each for a few years. Both were inveterate gym-goers, had a submissive streak and were dedicated to pleasing a man. Unlike you @Coolwave35, I used to schedule the meetings as I enjoyed the anticipation and slowly getting ready for our date. Yes. After each session, in that post-coital glow, I’d talk over with the muscleboy what he’d liked most and what I’d really enjoyed, and we’d discuss what we might do next time. I’d be quite directive and detailed beforehand, as I found being dominant during the date isn’t necessarily enough for a good sub. I’d tell my muscleboy how I wanted him to be dressed for our date - sometimes causal, sometimes smart formal dress as typically I like undressing my boy. Also I have an underwear fetish and so I’d specify briefs or jockstrap for the date. There would be a fun reward and a fun penalty: for compliance, a load in his mouth; for disobedience, being stripped naked and spanked. Sometimes I’d get a few dildos/vibrators lined up. One sub really liked me using these on him first, whereas the other didn’t (he told me later) but liked how I just did what I wanted to his ass. Both muscleboys loved being tied up. I bought various restraints and I’d make that a “special treat” for them. (It takes time and energy to tie a guy up!) And I’d mix up the atmosphere for our dates. I might be romantic: undress them lovingly at the start but leave walking around naked while I was fully clothed, making drinks and chatting to them. Or I might be harsh: have the muscleboy strip and drop to his knees to suck me off straightaway, before I’d even greeted him. Another time, I’d use dirty talk sparingly: ask the sub why I should feed him my load or why they deserved to be fucked hard; tell them where I was going to deposit my load (on their tongue, on their abs or all over their face). Sometimes I took photos and gave them copies - both subs liked that.

…I’d say at least $10million in liquid assets nowadays

I recommend to anyone interested that they read a short book “Food Rules: An Eater’s Manual” by Michael Pollan. It’s a simple and easy read in under an hour. His advice is very pithy. It could be summarised as Eat food your grandparents would recognise; Mainly plants; Don’t eat too much.

Physical beauty has always attracted economic power. When I was single and younger - 20 years ago, so long before the rise of OF - I had affairs with 3 personal trainers. One became a regular fuckbuddy and the other two were brief but enjoyable affairs. To answer the OP’s question, I think the key element is to establish a friendly rapport first, smile and be friendly. I worked out with 3 different trainers and I was open about being gay and single. Trainers often talk among themselves about their clients, and some like to gossip. People in the gym generally regarded me as a nice guy, so that helped. Above all, be discreet in your approach so that a personal trainer can turn you do without any offence being caused. When I was interested in a guy, I often asked a fellow trainer about him (something along the lines of ‘Is he gay-friendly?’ or ‘Is he dating anybody?’) If there was a positive response, I made a point of working out when it was quiet in the gym. When I saw the guy, I’d ask him if he wanted to get a coffee or lunch with me. That way, if he turned me down, all he could complain about to others was “that gay guy invited me for a coffee”.

You have good taste @TexasTop He seems an attractive young man. If you’re in WeHo, why not take him for a test-drive?

I completely agree. I don’t mean to be harsh @Coolwave35 but… Did Bottom promise you fidelity and monogamy? Did you promise Bottom that he would be your only boy? Did you tell Bottom that you wanted him to be exclusive? Did you promise Bottom that you would pay all his bills even when you were not together? Earlier you mentioned how you admired Bottom’s drive and initiative, eg his making money trading on Amazon. How is his resourcefulness on Fire Island different? It seems to me that maybe you had some romantic notions about him. Bottom is a lovely, fit young man who does what you like in bed. He wanted to enjoy the Summer and he met other guys who, like you, were happy to reward him for his company. Having successfully navigated the social whirl of Fire Island, Bottom was able to enjoy spending time with other lovely, fit young men. You’re not naive @Coolwave35 but I wonder if there isn’t some jealousy that Bottom was able to have a great time without you? When you were not there to orchestrate his activities? From what you’ve written, it doesn’t seem to me that Bottom misled you in any way. You had a thoroughly good but transactional relationship with him. I feel you overreacted in cancelling your other planned trips with him - that to me seems like “cutting your nose off to spite your face”. I’d urge you to be the bigger, more mature man here. Call him up and tell him you really want to see him again and make a date!

Is the guy you’re “falling for” a working guy that you’ve hired @7829V ? If so, I bet it’s happened to many of us. If you hire a guy who’s very much your ideal physical type and you have great sex together, it’s easy to develop feelings. Our hormonal response is excited by good sex, and the endorphins released don’t distinguish between a guy you meet ordinarily and a guy you’ve hired to fulfil your desires.

Are you referring to the Paris boy (aka the “exact” boy @Jnich desires)? If so, have you considered phoning him and simply saying ‘I fucked up that last time. I’d really like to see you again. Let’s go on a trip together’? I think that sometimes young men just don’t know what to say when something misfires. He may respond very well to your openness and desire to retrieve and rebuild a friendship.

I salute your candour @Coolwave35 but what an error! You have my sympathy but I wonder what you felt you might achieve by doing this? Was there a rush of blood to your (little) head on the impulse that the 3 of you would play well together? At any rate, I’m happy for you that you had such great times with him and now you can share fond memories of the fun you had together.

@Jnich this is really good advice from @tennisjock If you’re using Seeking as your primary route to find guys, you don’t want to risk being barred from the site. Just tell guys who interest you that you prefer to chat on your phone/email before meeting IRL. Be prepared to exchange clear pics early - headless or torso pics are fine. This is so you weed out no-hopers, such as guys who say they’re athletes but have recently stopped training and added 20lbs. I guess from your posts here that you’re really keen to meet some guys, so spend time honing your profile/advert so that it sparks interest from fit, athletic guys. Think about what matters to you and your possible guys. Examples are “I’m versatile, and want you to be too” or “I’m happy to be discreet if that matters to you” or “I like to travel and I want a travel-buddy” or “I’m happy to pick up all the bills”. Please ensure you arrange first dates as a low-key meeting in a public place in daylight - most guys are fine but there are homophobes etc out there and you have to think about your own safety. Report back on how it goes for you. I hope that soon you’ll be so busy with Seeking that you wonder where your free time went!

Seeking requires time and patience. I don’t know how busy your daily life is, but the initial contacts, filtering and one-off dates may consume a lot of your time. Not unheard of, but certainly unusual. These guys are the ideal for many men. If the guys are well-balanced but inexperienced, they may not realise how desirable they are. My guess @Jnich is that many young guys may want to meet you - note they may be flaky - but they may be unsure how to behave around you if you’re both the same age but you have all the resources. Bear in mind that the older/younger dynamic has various aspects: it’s definitely not just ‘monied/fit-bodied’. Quite a few young men want an older man in their life. They like the maturity of an older man, as well as enjoying the attention and being taken care of. And of course, not having to worry about money (as you put it earlier) makes life much easier.

His ad now says “certainly vers” I agree. When guys have an advert but cannot be bothered to respond, I feel it’s like Instagram: a pleasant way to pass the time, but I’d never pay for it.

All you have to do @Pensant is to become a photographer and invite him to an exotic locale. The boy knows how the world works

In his prime, he was a magnificent specimen. Nowadays I doubt he’d command more than $50 I’d pay that for me to cum all over his face…but I’d certainly pay that to cum in Chris Pine’s mouth

As an aside, I rather like the idea of @12is12 seeking the opinions of locals on gay sex (and its providers, presumably). It takes surveys of “customer satisfaction” to new heights.

What an interesting question @nycboi As I’m a top only, I found the responses illuminating

He has a superb body. But I noticed he says this in his profile: “My sexual services are strictly limited,” Does anyone know what his limits are? How interactive is he? The statement makes me wonder if he just likes to stand and pose while paying customers gaze in awe.…

Sad news @Oliver. My heart goes out to you. The death of old friends is one of the tough aspects of ageing. At the moment, I’m dealing with the sudden deaths of 2 of my oldest friends. I had known each of them for more than 50 years. FWIW I find that it helps to remember the many good times, happy events and vacations we shared.