DWnyc

1 hour ago, rvwnsd said:

I don't see how an escort could charge $300/hour and survive on escorting alone in NYC.

Particularly if the have a long list of “here’s what I won’t do”

but that amount pre tax is around $500 an hour … 4 hours a week = $2000 … so start doing the math and it doesn’t take long to be better off Than most New Yorkers 

1 hour ago, jmichaeliii said:

I have found the rate question has ended communication a few times, which makes no sense.  It's a waste of both sides time if the budget doesn't work.

As discussed elsewhere there the culture of “I know my own worth”, “I don’t want to deal with cheap clients” etc can disrupt what should be easy market dynamics (ie it works or it doesn’t work so move on).

And all this gets internalized by some to equate their rate to self esteem etc 

What should be the freest market becomes tangled with all sorts of 21st century / millennial entitlement

5 hours ago, NYXboy said:

my take is if everyone did this then providers would be making bookings out of only 1 in 6 enquires -   which is only a 16% strike rate - making them less likely to be motivated to reply to a new messages.

Which is a good reactive hit rate … no provider should complain at that

On 4/23/2024 at 6:33 PM, DrownedBoy said:

I have to add - if you're in a decent market, you shouldn't even have to think about negotiating.

According to RM, there are 210 guys within a 50 mile radius who kiss, 63 of whom are currently available.

It's not worth the time in that case.

Exactly

my reaction when someone I’ve politely told it’s not going to work comes back with a revised proposal isn’t “you’re not professional, you don’t know your real value, you’re undermining the market” - it’s “you’re being realistic and trying to close a deal, good for you for trying“ (and also “let’s drop the martyrdom act”)

11 minutes ago, DrownedBoy said:

If you're only measuring by escort donations, I guess Chicago is a "second-tier" city. Which is fine because we're always been the "Second City"....

Among those that consider it a city … 😉

16 hours ago, socurious said:

Half of the escorts in the business do not kiss. I don't know what's surprising about it. Escorts are entitled to have their limitations

What’s surprising may be that-  if your numbers are correct - they don’t actually disclose that fully. And then they still expect to be paid on the basis of vague descriptions of service or claiming the payment is for time rather than anything specific.

No problem if everything is really fully disclosed. But it often isn’t. Many providers don’t hide that they are intentionally vague and openly mock those they can lure in.:

On 4/23/2024 at 12:55 PM, Medin said:

Agreed....and I do consider that a luxury.   Not too many other services we purchase that cost $300+/hour.  

The economics is fascinating for those that can make it work (that doesn’t mean lucrative - it’s just one of the few examples of very free market economics in labor and price clearance)

Most female providers see very little of the sums charged

Most regular service providing models (eg law, audit) see fees go to owners of the business who (unless sole or limited proprietors) aren’t actually on the frontlines dealing with clients who expect service based on the value of the fees to them 

When people say “I know my value”, with no disrespect to anyone intended,  I roll my eyes a little - unless I’m sure they know what all the aspects of that word they have fully thought through. And I bite my tongue when I want to reply with something like: I know the value of what I’m prepared to hand over to anyone for anything as well, as I know what it took for me to earn it 

9 hours ago, socurious said:

I think some people assumme I'm straight because of the way I carry myself. Even some of my gay friends at first told me I was supposedly "too suave" to be gay. Whatever that means. I personally think it has something to do with my New York urban Latino swagger. I absorbed it unconsciously. 

Not only market research but also marketing! 

On 4/22/2024 at 5:06 AM, Simon Suraci said:

^This is your opinion. It doesn’t apply to all providers. Maybe some, sure. Many of us take the no negotiating stance and stick to it. It costs me business to operate this way, but then again, I want clients who value me as much as I do. That’s a net positive in my book.

Good for you when you find mutually beneficial arrangements through negotiation, but I wouldn’t characterize this approach as the way the world of hiring works. It’s mixed.

I actually don’t negotiate with providers -. at most I’ve accepted revised terms after their persistent efforts while doing nothing myself. And that’s not just my opinion, it’s my experience in multiple instances with providers well regarded on here and elsewhere, and the experience of many I know personally. 

And to be clear: my non negotiation position is not because I put providers on some pedestal. I don’t respect or disrespect a provider arguing they know their value and won’t budge from that - it’s irrelevant as what I care about is if the terms work for me. I’d rather move on to someone else if the terms don’t work for me as initially stated, and I wouldn’t want to be literally exposed with someone resentful at the circumstances of being there even if they accept them voluntarily.

When I say that’s not how the world works (negotiation does in fact occur) I’m not saying it’s the case for 100% of providers or interactions. So you can have your position on this, and the world can still work a different way for a significant number of people / experiences. What I’m saying is it’s not 0% (no negotiations) and occurs frequently enough to be considered normal. 

On 4/20/2024 at 11:20 PM, APPLE1 said:

I guess I should count myself lucky, because I have never had a fear for my safety with a provider, or a trick. I understand that some may say I am simply naive.

I certainly am not diminishing anyone's concerns or actions in regard to safety. But I must say, walking into a situation unencumbered, with only personal gratification on my mind, is a beautiful thing!

More than once I’ve found a surprise guest. More than once I’ve had the offer they stay, for a fee. On two occasions I had reason to leave before the session was over and was nervous for more than a split second about being outnumbered in a situation I wouldn’t want the world to know about. 

So let me ask again - why did the OP pose the basic question in this thread?

Market research?

Or if he finds most of his clients assume he’s straight what does that mean to them given they seek him out (that’s his sex life of choice outside work and he happens to be doing this because it’s a job, or that he is guaranteed to be dismissive or insulting once the session begins etc) 

And why does he think most of his clients assume he’s straight? Reacting to something deliberate on his part? Or not doing something to correct a perception (but again based on what)?

The provider-client interaction is almost always an act on part of the provider (and the better he is or wants to be, the client may even leave thinking at least part of it wasn’t) - so the supposed straight man can pretend to be into it (we’ve all seen the porn on the straight guys who discover the joy of being with men, or find their bills being taken care of justify showing they enjoy gay sex whether or not this is sincere etc). Or he can exaggerate or make up condescension  (“you can’t get a girl … you’re not a real man …” type stuff) and downright humiliation even violence.
 

Or as some have expressed here - it can be irrelevant and he just follows instructions and leaves the client with what he wants - and that’s no one’s business but theirs. 

Some Straight men have told me they actually enjoy having sex  with men (I’ve pointed out they can’t be straight - that’s a different subject) -often saying things like they feel more desired than by women during it, the better oral isn’t just a cliche, and they can “practice” fucking as gay men will give it away more readily.

I can tolerate that to some degree - esp if consensual - but not the self declared straight who treats someone like shit, then takes their money and goes back to a world with more entitlement.

now remind me, why did the OP ask the question? 

10 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I wonder if this is because some guys don't know how to ask a provider for the scene they want. I can see wanting to enact a straight bro scene or a bullied scene. It can be hot to work out your trauma. But desiring someone who categorically will not desire you, is not for me. 

I don’t think that’s it - that would require some empathy, taking time to understand the scene some might seek etc and I don’t see providers were discussing represent themselves that way. Though gay men may seek that out from the experience.

On 4/19/2024 at 10:38 PM, Redwine56 said:

I find that this way of thinking also rears its ugly head when it comes to dealing with people of different ethnicities and class.  Their inherited prejudices will come through in other aspects as well, not only with sexuality.

Have lost track of how many providers have “boasted” (perhaps trying to bond) about how they recently screwed over some ethnicity / age / body type they assumed they could belittle in conversation 

I asked  one regular why he had redone his profile to insert “white” to describe himself in almost every other sentence. He talked about the rise of “race play” (no judgement) and how that was coded signaling,  but then went on to tell me his theories of how the world should work - him taking peoples money while treating them like cr*p as he can etc (eg not deliver on what was promised but still take the money).  it’s how I imagine much of the “straight” provider framing to be (again no disrespect to clients who seek that out) 

On 4/15/2024 at 9:33 PM, Vegas_Millennial said:

I take the opposite approach.  I tell all my escorts/masseurs/hookups to "close the door so my upstairs roommate won't be disturbed", even when I have no roommates in the house.  For my safety, I like having them think someone else is in the house.

I can spot that technique a mile off. I also use it frequently 😉

On 4/15/2024 at 10:28 AM, maninsoma said:

  It just seems to me that some level of trust is required to meet a stranger, and whatever screening/vetting process one has is hopefully good enough to at least keep the people with malintent at bay.

And that trust could be broken / damaged with what one considers a bad surprise 

I’ve lost count of how many providers have lied about being alone - the roommate, friend who needed a place to stay at the last minute, the dog they don’t think about since they’re minding it temporarily for their friend … etc - not disclosed even after asking 

On 4/14/2024 at 3:02 AM, APPLE1 said:

 I make it clear that I have a dog.

 

Good - this ranks #2 I think behind cats (allergies)

And for New Yorkers and elsewhere up several flights of stairs that should be disclosed too 

I typically apply the same rule as to non provider meets - I’ll say (unless it’s an immediate booking) “I’ll confirm before heading out  an hour before our appointment and won’t leave till I hear back”. I also request if they’re busy an hour before our time that they confirm from their end sometime before then. 

works quite well as it covers for most of the typical scenarios:

- something better came up but I can’t be bothered to tell you

- I’m partied out and have lost sense of time and commitments 

- I wasn’t realistic on when I’d be free and expected you would hang around but didn’t want to lose the booking 

- I’m so good the prior client wanted to extend so I couldn’t take your call 

If there’s no response I leave a voicemail and text so there’s a record saying given the time it will take me to get there if I don’t hear back within 10-15 mins we can consider the appointment canceled.

I’ve had a mix of apologetic call backs immediately / requests for a later time / abusive “you’re a flake” accusations and - “you’re so uptight … what’s half … one … one and a half hours to wait for the mighty moi”. As well as absolutely no response at all. 

My favorite recent excuse was “I was fine but my partner wanted reshoots for our only fans content so I got held up at the studio” 

I think most of us have likely seen profiles online of people we know - friends, colleagues etc - and we’ve probably also chuckled or raised eyebrows at things they list - age being the obvious one.
 

And we’ve likely come across someone who reveals something when we actually meet or some time after that which might give pause. 
 

Multiple personas and a sign this person can’t be trusted? Or how they choose to be in certain contexts with certain goals in mind … who cares, live and let live.

You clearly are engaged in the hobby if on this forum so you are presumably at peace with ethics, risks etc. Is it really different from if you found out he was a saxophone player and it never came up until you discovered it and then only after your first meeting …

23 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

just the occasional lack of true interest in anything but getting that money.

Or perhaps being able / willing to fake that interest regardless of orientation 

I think “straight” in this context gives an out to act totally disinterested and even rude - and that does actually attract some people … in terms of signaling what the attitude will be during the session 

I’ve met self-defined straight, bi and gay providers who act like they’re doing humanity a favor by allowing a modicum of interaction to those who they see as bottom of the league - the orientation is less important than how they see themselves vs the client in this case 

One thing folks don’t think about so much (I assume) is how flexible are the rates in different cities. 

I know the cultural bias in this forum is “no negotiating! So unclassy!” But that’s not how the world works. So another aspect is how flexible are prices from the initial quote. I find NYC can seem higher than other cities at the start of a conversation but can become equalized or even lower given the huge range of options here. “Take it or leave it” and “I know my value” type positions are fine in theory and in sales training classes but don’t often work in practice. “Value” is what the market allows both sides to settle on after they take some time to see what is really out there.

On 4/10/2024 at 5:59 PM, socurious said:

hate when certain clients like to act entitled as if they have the right to tell others what's their value is. Unless the escort is scamming people no one has that right.  If you think someone is expensive just move on and hire someone else. It's their bodies and minds at the end of the day. 

Works both ways of course. Ultimately most clients won’t engage someone they think isn’t worth it and often that isn’t only about the dollars. 

On 4/10/2024 at 6:17 PM, socurious said:

Do you think 500 is too little in NYC? My friend charges 700.

Depends who you are and what you’re offering

I have rarely proactively sought more than 1 hr (unless things going really well and I don’t feel tricked into extendibg) - and I’m noticing more providers throwing in an incentive to book in the first place by offering discounted rates for the 2nd hour - and if been quoted as low as 350 or so. By those well reviewed on RM and here. Of course they might not have started with that if I started my inquiries at 2 hours.

now I fully recognize there are those that charge 500+ for just one hour, but they wouldn’t be on my shortlist 

On 4/15/2024 at 3:18 PM, APPLE1 said:

 

If that doesn't pan out, you can always arrange a paid session. But, why on earth would you want to broach the subject of buying the cow, when you have a chance to get the milk for free!

Maybe he just keeps different aspects of his life separate. Providers are entitled to their intimacy in situations they choose just like everyone else. Maybe he wouldn’t even accept the OP as a client - or indeed as a repeat hookup if he tried hiring him in the way described. 

13 minutes ago, socurious said:

Most of my clients usually assume I'm straight.

Why do they assume that?

Do you correct them (assuming you don’t identify yourself that way?)