Simon Suraci

^ Me too!!! ^ 💯 I see this a lot. Depends on the client. Varies a lot. And let’s not forget the variety of services clients hire on RentMen. Last night, for example, a client hired me to accompany him a couple hours for a nice dinner. No sex. Just good conversation in public over some great food. He represents a minority of clients, but still it shows that people have different needs and hire them from different platforms. There’s often overlap where a client wants sex and hires me on RentMen but then figures out I have great massage skills and comes back just for that. Or visa versa he finds me on RentMasseur wanting massage and then wants to hire me for sex the next time. For those of us providers offering both services it really makes sense to be on multiple platforms.

@corndog each masseur is different. I personally am capable of giving a legit therapeutic only massage and I do when clients request it. I actually enjoy giving a skilled therapeutic massage. That’s how I started in my career. As a matter of fact, I ran a special for a few months advertising a lower rate for strictly therapeutic massage i.e. me clothed, client draped, no happy ending, no sensual or erotic touch. It was a pretty good deal for my market and I was curious to see if it boosted my business. Only two clients took me up on the offer and one of them was incredibly handsy, in fact moreso than my typical client. The other client was quite respectful and we kept it to therapeutic massage. He was happy, but he returned to me asking for my regular service at my standard rate. I did not offer this or pressure him, rather he asked me for it. Since then, he hired me for escort service, which I did not pressure him to do or try to upsell him. He asked. Go figure. We see a wide array of clients and they each have slightly different expectations and behave in different ways on the table. I’m telling you from experience that well over 95% of my clients want at minimum some small level of sensual or erotic interaction. They’re not all pressuring me or demanding it (which I appreciate) and I am not forcing it on them either. They really like seeing a gay masseur like me because they can have those sensual and erotic interactions without judgment, fear, or pressure. Sometimes clients do not respond to my nudges indicating it’s ok to touch me, or they don’t show signs of pleasure when I touch them in an erotic/sensual way… so I ease up and don’t push anything erotic. And that’s OK! I have to say, though, that these clients are the exception, not the rule. Different strokes for different folks. Literally. We are not here to pressure anyone. We’re here to offer what the market demands. Way more often than not, the market demands something along a wide spectrum of sensual and erotic experiences. The clients best matched to my strengths are clients needing and appreciating solid, skilled therapy, and for whom a level of sensuality and eroticism enhances their enjoyment. My suggestion: tell your masseur that you want a focused, therapeutic massage. Ask if he offers extras. Assuming he does, tell him you don’t want them and see how he does in the session. I would never go against a client’s request like this. So often we are working on clients uncomfortable with asking for their needs. So we have to intuit those needs. A client not responding to my sensual and erotic touch is a client I won’t make an effort to do extras for. I back off. Even more clear is a client that tells me upfront that he wants therapeutic only. I respect that. It takes the guesswork and intuition game out of the picture and I can focus on giving him the best work I can for his needs. It gives me a chance to relax and focus my energy on what he does need. It’s a relief, really. I love giving quality therapy. What is most often lacking here is not masseur skill or ability, but client communication. Ask for what you want. When you don’t, your masseurs will default to what most of the market wants. We want to please our clients. We don’t want to disappoint them. When most of our clients WANT sensual and erotic elements (but also are uncomfortable asking for them), we are left to figure it out. You can’t blame us for responding to the market or for doing the intuitive work we must necessarily do to respond to that market.

My suggestion: hire more professional masseurs. Professionals schedule clients with time gaps in between the stop time of their last client and the start time of their next one. I prefer at least 30 mins. That gap time is very important. In that time, we clean our massage equipment, change linens, and depending on the session content, we clean our bodies too. Maybe change the thermostat to fit client preferences with time for the temp to adjust. Spray essential oils, restock our massage oil, do little chores, etc. We use the time to respond to inquiries we were unavailable to respond to during the last session, take a break to sit down, use the bathroom, and eat/drink. Responding to clients takes the most time out of all these activities. If I’m not careful to prioritize all of the above before responding, I can easily spend the whole gap time texting clients who messaged me during the last appointment and find myself unprepared for the next appointment. Without that gap: 1. There is no privacy. Clients are almost guaranteed to see one another coming and going. This is disrespectful to both clients. 2. The masseur can’t respond to inquiries in a reasonable amount of time. Say he has two 90 min massages scheduled. That means someone has to wait up to three hours for the masseur to respond. 3. OR your masseur is distracted during your session responding to client requests because he has no time programmed in between clients to do so. Many of you describe the “one hand massage” as he spends your session time texting other people. Professionals never do this. Say client 1 overstays by at least five minutes for any reason, like chatting, taking a long time to cum, requesting extra work on an area, having issues with their payment method, etc. Say client 2 shows up at least five minutes early. 30 min gaps means that we have twenty minutes (at most) to do all of the gap time activities. That’s not much time. At some point even the professionals planning gap time will find themselves in a situation where the first client won’t stop the small talk and the second client insists on showing up 15 or more minutes early and you end up with them crossing paths coming and going. I do my best to avoid these situations without coming across as rude, but sometimes it happens anyway. I make the very early client wait so I can do my gap time activities. It’s not my fault they are early, and if they have a problem seeing the last client leaving, that’s on them for arriving too early. The first client I do my best to get them out with plenty of time to avoid them having to cross paths with the next client. It’s tough when they aren’t picking up on polite signals that it’s time to get going. Clients should aim to be right on time, or at most five minutes early. Arriving late is putting yourself at risk of having a shorter session. We have to respect the next client’s start time and our gap time. The pros factor it all in so your session goes smoothly, both in the way of hygiene and client privacy. If your masseurs aren’t factoring in gap time, find a more professional masseur! I won’t dive into the side topic of sex with masseurs and the game playing tactics of trying to get discount sex work services. We have way too many dedicated topics in these already. Short version: value sex work for what it is and pay equitable rates for it. Full stop. It’s better that way for clients, providers, the sex work industry.

http://massageexchange.com I’ve used it before and had an ok experience. You pay to communicate with other members. Limited user base, low response rate. Mix of amateurs, semi-pros, and pros. You can’t be very picky about how potential partners look otherwise you may never meet anyone. The point is the exchange, not dating or hookups.

Yes. I believe it’s unreasonable to assume working all seven days in a week nonstop for many weeks on end. I do this when I travel. Last summer I did ten solid weeks of 12+ hours a day, seven days a week. It’s a sprint, not a marathon. By the end of that trip I was really burned out. I took time off before working again. This pace is utterly unsustainable to maintain all year round. I do sprints for 3-6 weeks, sometimes longer. The bulk of my time I work in my home city about 6 days a week and I am taking fewer clients per day on average than when I travel. I take days off for family things, and a few holidays. Life happens, and the flexibility I build in bears the brunt of it. That’s more sustainable. So no, we are not working consistently x hours a day for seven days a week for every week of the year minus four weeks! We work as many hours as any full time employee, and way more when you consider the overhead time, but we spread it out quite differently than your average desk job would. It doesn’t fit into nice, tidy, consistent 8 or 9 hour blocks for 5 days a week. I suppose one could set it up that way, but you would not make anything near as much.

My take on your points: 1. Income varies widely in the sex work industry. It really depends on what you charge, how much you work, what types of clients you target/attract, what other work you do to supplement or do this full time, how in demand you are, and business decisions you make to leverage (or waste) your potential. Someone can make as little as the equivalent of a fast food worker by making bad business and life decisions, and as much as a well known reality TV star by making good decisions, and getting lucky. A lot of us fall closer into that skilled, educated IT worker range. It’s something like a bell curve. 2. Agree. It takes a toll. Especially masseurs who know what they are doing using their hands and body repetitively every work day. I know a very in demand masseur that works at least 8 hrs a day (not including breaks), 5 days a week. His hands are wearing out after about 15 years of practice. He is switching careers to do cybersecurity IT work to save his hands. 3. True, you can work as much as you want, in theory. It is quite flexible too, which is a huge advantage. False that you can magically organize everyone to line up at your door on exactly the days and times you want. I suppose this is a function of how in demand you are. Most of us are not porn stars in their peak 1-2 years of fame to justify the above. We work around client schedules and preferences, which span all days and times from early morning to late at night within a given week. Frequent or occasional travel is necessary. You may not be fully booked during the hours a normal full time job would typically occupy, but your availability is basically full time (or often more) if this is your primary or exclusive income. We deal with cancellations, rescheduling, running late, and ghosting. It’s a lot of wasted but necessary time. It’s all part of the job, like overhead in a way, except time rather than dollars. But remember: our most valuable asset is, in fact, time. 4. I agree, this is very important for anyone in any profession. Working guys can get an individual 401(k). It’s a thing! You are not beholden to an employer to have access to a 401(k). Plus you can invest in other things like IRAs, stocks, real estate, businesses, and more. Vanguard is a great place for index funds, for example. Doing sex work for a living is no excuse to avoid investing for retirement and other financial goals. You don’t need a traditional job to invest. Exit strategy is important, whether planning for direct 100% retirement at a certain age or for a second/third/fourth career outside the industry before ending your working years.

See these threads. Lots of interesting discussion on this side topic, not to get too far off track here: How much do you pay for an overnight date? Overnight with an escort Overnight rate

Especially in NYC, specifically.

ReeceScottx (also known locally as a masseur: Dann). He’s a sweetheart. Good guy, can’t recommend him highly enough for massage. His smile will melt you. Re: his cock. Confirmed. He’s got one glorious member and generous with touch. Beautiful in person. He’s literally your gay porn massage fantasy come to life. Watch his various porn ranging from simple instagay collaborations on his bed to studio porn style Mormon boy scenes. EDIT: Dann came up in this thread so I mentioned him. He’s definitely in the opposite category of “worst” experiences of 2024, or any year. You can refer to other threads on him for positive comments. Back to your regularly scheduled programming…

@ThroatCummer thanks for sharing. FinDom is controversial and it seems everyone has strong opinions about it, most of them on the negative/fear/sad side. Like the news, we tend to hear mostly about the horror stories, and not about the successful fun experiences people have engaging their FinSub kink. Why? Because it’s private. Subs sometimes enjoy a form of humiliation but it’s all controlled and on their own terms. Nobody wants to be publicly scrutinized, mocked, shamed, belittled or blamed for hiring a FinDom. That’s one reason why you won’t hear about the many positive experiences they have. I want to acknowledge that the inexperienced 20 somethings on twitter (and others) are indeed out there preying on men with a sub side. That’s a thing, and it’s unfortunate. They are not doing this responsibly, skillfully, or for the right reasons. They should not be initiating a FinDom relationship with potential clients. It’s unprofessional and exploitative. I also want to acknowledge that clients have full control over their own choices. They are not forced or coerced to engage. They can say no, walk away, block, etc. Very few people have this kink and those that do know where and how to seek out providers. Some of them have more addictive tendencies which will come out in one way or another. This is just one way. They need to seek help and treatment. Anything interfering with your life, relationships, ability to work, pay your bills, and function in the world is a problem. That goes for alcohol, substances, gambling, and any other addictive behavior, including sex. One of my forum member clients has a sex addiction and he sought out counseling and treatment. It wasn’t draining him financially, as he had plenty of resources, but it was interfering with his life, work, and relationships. He spent an unhealthy amount of time researching, contacting, and hiring providers. It became an obsession. Fortunately he got help. He still hires, but with many more healthy boundaries and limits. For some, it’s best to stop all together. For him, he found a way to engage in a balanced, controlled fashion.

Yes, absolutely. I attended Friday afternoon through Monday morning and it worked out great. There’s something organized to do with the group each day. InnDulge is a ton of fun, but it books up months in advance. Call just in case. I booked a year in advance this time to make sure I could get a larger room type to better accommodate my massage table. If InnDulge doesn’t work out, you can stay at many other nearby hotels and hang out for free around the pool at InnDulge as a guest. Be my guest 😉 We’d love to meet you, @DamizzonNYC!

^Agree. There are many ways to approach FinDom, from the alpha side and the sub side. Both can set parameters and boundaries around what they will and won’t do, limits to their spending, using a certain card or payment method, etc. It takes healthy communication up front before engaging in FinDom scenarios. You can scale up over time after developing trust and understanding with a series of lower stakes interactions. Either side can behave recklessly, and the potential for exploitation is real. Clients choose to engage in FinDom and they are in complete control up front. FinDom clients are not victims. It’s all an illusion, an act. For a successful series of interactions, the sub must suspend his disbelief. Doing so for a skilled dom generates real feelings which scratch his itch. You won’t understand it fully unless you have that particular itch. Most people will never have it, and that’s ok. That doesn’t make those that do have the itch any less valid for having it or scratching it. Clients and providers, including @ICTJOCK please stop judging other people’s kinks and fetishes you don’t understand. There are safer, more responsible ways to indulge clients into this particular kink. It’s not for everyone, and that’s ok. Not every provider will be good at, or interested in providing this service. That is also ok. Live and let live.

You are the only one responsible for your own health. Measure your own risk tolerance and take steps to protect yourself accordingly. If you can’t tolerate any risk at all, abstain altogether - from hiring and from personal hookups. Some crazies contact me asking about status, health records, test results, photos of my prescriptions, etc. There is no pleasing these guys. They want to outsource responsibility for their own sexual health to providers. Then berate me when I don’t share sensitive info saying I am lying and blah blah blah. I am not lying but in the past when I go out of my way to give them everything they demand they still won’t hire, so I don’t see the point of going through the motions. So I just decline. It’s like no “proof” is good enough. I offer to take a rapid test in person if they provide it. Then they go away. These types get really upset and badmouth providers. Clients, please don’t be one of these guys. Take responsibility for yourself.

I’m partnered. He works in an entirely different industry, so no collaboration or crossover potential and that works well for us both. He knows all about what I do, and he’s supportive, although it’s not easy being in a relationship with someone doing this kind of work. We’ve had our struggles over the years related to my work, plus all the typical couple problems most people have. Clients need not fear they are the “leftovers” from another relationship. The professionals among us prioritize our clients. We sacrifice parts of ourselves to be able to do what we do. That’s part of what you’re paying for. Perhaps less sex with partner(s) than we would otherwise like to have, and when we would like to have it. We forgo personal plans in favor of a client’s schedule. We devote time and energy to making our business and clients a priority, sometimes encroaching on our partners and how this business affects them. It’s balance. It’s difficult keeping everyone happy making each of them feel like they are your number one priority. Despite the challenges between my partner and I, we keep one another grounded. A good couples therapist helps a lot too. I highly recommend those of you in relationships seeing one, especially when you’re not already in crisis. That’s the best time. I don’t talk about my partner or mention I am partnered when I’m with clients, as I believe it can be unnecessarily distracting, or at worst, ruin someone’s fantasy of me being fully “theirs” for a time. I mention him in my RentMen interview, but that’s about the most you would hear unless a client asked me about him. A lot of my clients ask about my relationship status. I share as much as they want to hear. I’m an open book. If it ruins your fantasy, don’t ask! My partner has many chronic health conditions. He is only able to work part time for now due to his health and disability status. His work at home helping to manage our farm frees me up to offer services in San Diego and in other cities when I travel. I truly love my work, and I continue for many other reasons, but being able to support our household and other family motivates me the most. Some of my very close long term clients ask regularly about my partner. They’re genuinely interested in my family and how things are going. I gladly share and update them. It humanizes the whole exchange. We’re all just people with problems, needs, quirks, and desires. There’s something really special about making these kinds of deeper connections. It’s all a lot more intimate in a way, and that makes for even better sessions that keep getting better over time. When you open up and exchange a lot of personal things, you get to know someone really well. I can’t recommend this approach for every provider or every client. Sometimes having a professional boundary is the most healthy dynamic, but every now and then you meet a client that really connects with you, that cares, and comes to love you as a friend without muddling the hiring relationship boundaries. A lot of these clients are hiring me for more than a couple hours, perhaps half a day, overnight, or longer. There’s more time in those sessions to connect over long conversations. Those are the best. As others have mentioned in other threads, you don’t hire to support someone’s family needs, however noble those may be. You hire for yourself, to meet your needs. How your provider spends, gives, or saves is really nobody’s business but his own. It is nice to know sometimes, however, that you’re connecting with a real person. Learning a little about their personal life, including their partner, facilitates that connection. Should our circumstances change I would probably go back to my ‘normal’ professional full time career working as an architect, assuming he could work full time too. *sigh* it is what it is for now.

Not really. a provider listing FinDom is advertising to the 99% of their base that he offers something the 99% are turned off by or afraid of. A lot of clients fail to see it for what it is: an offer to provide one of many sexual services. Rather, they see it as a requirement, a preference, or an exclusive offering (not true most of the time). At best, the 99% do not take the provider seriously. At middle, they are turned off. At worst, they are scared, like it’s a threat to steal all their money at gunpoint. That’s not what FinDom is, or how it works. It takes effort, commitment, and creativity to do it well. FinDom subs want providers who can do it well. The uber small minority of clients actually interested in FinDom would just as easily find providers on niche sites, or ask providers if they offer it. Sure, it would be nice to read it as a preselected option on a profile, as something a provider has experience with and offers as a service, as mundane as fisting or roleplay. But the typical client does not see it that way. Fight or flight takes hold, judgement washes over their brains, and they absolutely lose their minds. So yeah, I view listing FinDom on a profile as a liability rather than an asset. Unless the profile is on a niche site catering to a specific client audience. Most clients are not mature enough to see it for what it is - simply a menu option, one they are neither encouraged nor compelled to choose. Re: providers suggesting FinDom services out of the blue to a new client. This is weird. I see no reason to bring it up unless the client asked or indicated in some way that he is interested in FinDom services. This is a red flag. I would be concerned about the provider suggesting or pushing FinDom, but not at all concerned with the provider listing it a menu option.

Yes. Very attractive clients are in the minority but you see all kinds of people in this business. People have needs. At the end of the day, it’s a job. I’m here to serve their needs, and I enjoy doing it. That dynamic doesn’t change at all, wherever a client falls on a conventional attractiveness scale.

Sounds like a functioning and relatively efficient market to me. Price discovery is a low friction process. Fewer legal barriers make it all possible. As for the many hours or days worth of services for the price of one hour … maybe this is a cultural difference, but if I operated this way in the US, I would go broke in no time! It’s not personal, just an economic reality. No judgment to the clients or providers who had a great times together in the UK. Sounds like everyone involved was getting what they wanted and needed without exploitation. Good for you. To all clients hiring in the US, please do not apply UK or European cultural norms or expectations to us. Many of us make a full time living doing this work. We’re not all students paying off our debt for only a year or two, or living in subsidized housing, or casually seeing who we can meet for thrills. We have bills to pay, we’ve got mouths to feed. Ain’t nothing in this world for free!

LOL. PM me. He’s open to lots of things. I’ve been quite up and personal with him working together to verify that yes, he is a natural ginger... all over. What “evidence” do you need? 😆 He’s partial to wearing hats so maybe not obvious clothed, at quick glance. We are looking forward to doing some bdsm related scenes together for a client soon. I am sure we can arrange something.

Last year was my first PS weekend. I came alone. I felt this same way at first: Then the rest of the weekend it was easier to open up and socialize. I didn’t get to talk to everybody, and with some I only met briefly or chatted with a few minutes the whole weekend because there is so much going on. I wish I had more time with more members last year, but I’ve been in touch with several of you in person, by text, online, and by phone in the months following. The good news is no matter how little or much you interact with any particular member over the weekend, you can continue to build your connections long after. PS is a great way to spark up conversations and make those connections, however deep or shallow they initially may be. You can’t hide behind a screen name here. It’s real people being themselves in the moment, and that’s pretty refreshing. The other good news is that members attending these trips are the cream of the crop. They’re the most welcoming, social, friendly, supportive, and fun of the whole lot. True, some are lurkers or rarely post, and that’s ok. They’re fun too! Everyone is there to have a good time. Remember that even the most social among us are shy or nervous at times. Once you break the ice with one or two, it’s very easy to make friends with many others. So say hello. Anyone wanting to chat with me please come up and say hello. I don’t bite… at least not until we establish consent. My masseur/escort bud Newell plans to attend the dinner again. I’ll update the group closer to the dates. He’s probably only staying for 1-2 nights, as he gets restless on these trips. Say hello to him at the dinner. He’s a tall ginger hulk but very friendly. Newell is a bit shy about coming up and chatting with new people, but very easy to talk to if you initiate a conversation.

True, @pubic_assistance by not paying you’re leaving some of the dynamics to chance in a semi-public setting. It’s not truly public as a bathhouse is limited to 18+ male presenting people specifically there to cruise and be cruised, and paying for the privilege. Anyone can walk up to you in a park for free, but only this specific group of people can do so in a bathhouse. Also, you can’t be naked or walk around in a towel in public, at least not safely. So I see this as a semi-public setting. I agree paying is the one way to get exactly what the OP wants while maintaining 100% control. It gives you say over the boundaries. You can be picky, if you want to, about who is watching, for how long, what they do or don’t do, or if they participate in any way. Not paying, you may have to deal with saying ‘no’ or swatting a hand away, or temporarily pausing while the guy not respecting your boundaries moves on. Then you can resume. Annoying, but that’s the trade off. The downside to paying for this kind of scene is you lack the true spontaneity of people stumbling upon you and genuinely interested in watching what’s going on. Part of the fun is feeling like you’re doing something transgressive and that you’re holding the voyeurs’ interest by what you’re doing. Paying a voyeur doesn’t guarantee this dynamic, but it works if you can embrace the fantasy and suspend thoughts about whether the hired guy is truly into it or just indulging you. Sometimes voyeur scenes are about being “discovered”, “caught in the act”, or being viewed secretly, like from a crack in a wall or a keyhole, or through one way glass. Sometimes proximity is arousing, like someone stroking their dick two feet away from your face as they enjoy you play with your partner. It looks different ways. Pay if you want 100% complete control. Or don’t pay, but be prepared to set and enforce boundaries.

It varies. Different places, different nights of the week. There’s always that guy who, for whatever reason ignores or doesn’t understand boundaries. I can’t say one experience represents all, or that things are a lot different from years ago vs now. I don’t think much has changed. It varied then, it varies now. Whatever the situation, each member has the power to establish and enforce his own boundaries. No means no. Nobody is beholden to another for sex, touch, or attention. For 1:1 time with another visitor, it’s best to get a room. That’s what they’re for, although some clubs call them “changing rooms” …with TVs, and beds… 🤣 …maybe for legal reasons.

Personally, I don’t care. Prospective clients ask for various pics. I send them. Sometimes they hire me. Sometimes they don’t. I’m not bothered. People don’t hire me because I’m the hottest guy on the grid. So-and-so’s dick is bigger, so-and-so has rippling abs. Whatever. They hire me because they like me for me. You can’t communicate that in a photo, or a hundred. That’s why I don’t really mind. I know clients best matched to me will find me and hire me over and over. That’s my bread and butter business. So what if they’re jerking off to my photos? More power to them.

A bathhouse is more fun when you’re open to other partners joining in some capacity, but you can still enjoy the exhibitionism aspect with whatever rules you have around your play. Bathhouses are places for play, yes, but also for consensual play. I disagree with @pubic_assistance on this one. Maintain your boundaries and you will be fine. It’s ok to say no to someone’s advances verbally or nonverbally. You can be polite but firm about it too. “No, thank you” goes a long way. Swatting a hand/dick/whatever away is clear enough for most people when your mouth is occupied or you can’t see who it is or where it’s coming from. I see no reason why you couldn’t go at it in front of an audience and leave the area if/when someone persists in violating whatever boundaries you set. It’s the perfect cheap thrill and you’re still 100% in control. Same goes for when you go alone. Maintain your boundaries and have fun!

It’s a one of a kind place to dish on all the things you might not be able or willing to do on mainstream social media or IRL. PLUS everything else too 😊