Simon Suraci

We’re considering Joey Dane. Anyone know him, or his partner Beau? Here is a link to a thread I just created for him: Joey Dane - Provider Thread

Joeyxdane - Male Escort, Gay massage - San Diego | Rent.Men RENT.MEN Joeyxdane Gay Escort in San Diego, California, available for Gay Escorting,Modeling,Erotic Massage. |... RentMen Profile Twitter Any experience with Joey? His RM reviewers say he is “sweet”, “sexy”, and “fantastic”. He has done threesomes for clients with his partner, Beau. I’d love a link to Beau’s profile if he runs an ad and anyone knows him. That would be a plus if Beau could join. My client is interested in hiring Joey for group fun. I ran a few searches on the forum site, and couldn’t find any existing commentary. Here is a cross reference to my other thread regarding providers for group fun: Best of San Diego Recommendations

I DM’d you on 10/3, but haven’t heard back. If you have more SD recommendations to share here or privately, please do share.

Thank you all again. I organized a successful multi-escort outcall appointment with Jacob Larsen, MuscleGingerXL, Erik Duran, myself, and my client. All went well! Last night was a blast. Our latest addition, Jacob (linked upthread), is stunning. Absolutely gorgeous from head to toe, body, face, smile. And that ass…wow! 🤩 chef’s kiss. His cock was amazing too and I got to take it a few times before reciprocating. He clearly had a good time and obviously enjoys topping. The others and I took turns opening him up gradually from smallest to largest cock. That was hot. And man, I enjoyed kissing Jacob. Most importantly, he was professional, easy to communicate with, and followed through on all counts. I highly recommend Jacob and expect to collaborate with him in various scenarios in the future. My client was thrilled. We’re already discussing his next multi-hire. More recommendation requests to follow. My client wants to add and rotate more men in and out of our multi-man blowout sessions.

The norm for the majority of clients is one and done. I can get some massage clients off more than once, and they tend to be on the younger end of the spectrum, but normally just one time, regardless of age or overall health. They may want to go more but just can’t, even when they are hard again. I think some of this dynamic has to do with the time constraints of the session. If we had longer together, maybe it would flow more naturally into two or more rounds, but everyone has a budget. Same with escort clients. Usually one and done, and the CLIENT starts wrapping up ready to go, not me. This is why I try to pace the session so I don’t get them off too early unless they communicate that’s what they want and I oblige. For those of you like @pubic_assistance, communicate with your escort or masseur that you want to go again. I’m happy to entertain my clients for as long as they want within the time they are paying for. You may want to extend your session when you’re really having a good time and want to keep going. Ask to extend. The norm is one and done. It may not be that your guy is trying to cut your time or enjoyment short. He’s just used to one and done clients and unless you communicate, it’s really easy for him to miss your cues and fall into his rhythm of wrapping up after the first orgasm.

I didn’t opt for the ambient lighting but seems like a nice feature. I provide my own mood lighting in studio and sometimes when I’m on the road I put a rechargeable battery powered light under the table, the kind you see on restaurant tables. It’s a nice 2700k color temperature. Sorry, that’s my inner architect nerd coming out. When that light goes bad at some point, I’ll swap it out more easily than an integrated fixture.

All the more reason to invest in a high quality table. One of my masseur friends keeps buying cheap tables and they break after a couple years. This is our primary tool for our business. I feel it’s worth the investment for something that will hold up. $500-600 range versus $100-$200 range makes a huge difference. Some masseurs I know use a stationary electric hydraulic table costing thousands. I don’t think that’s necessary, but to each his own. Personally, I prefer the Master Massage brand, model: Husky Gibraltar. The name makes me laugh. That, and the fact that on some ads they market it as “Olympic size”, like massage is an Olympic sport. Reminds me of the mom on My Big Fat Greek Wedding going out to buy “Queen” size panty hose, as if the garment is for a mattress. I digress… The table has lasted me for years and travels fairly well for outcalls. I keep a second one in my Jeep for that purpose. The Husky is 32” wide and the manufacturer claims this table supports up to 3,200 lbs. I don’t believe that, and never had a desire or reason to test anything close to that ridiculously high limit, but it gives me confidence that two men collectively weighing 300-600 lbs or more will do just fine using it for massage and/or sex, and it can take some heavy point loads from time to time. At some point it becomes impractical for me to mount the table with my client purely for spatial and logistical reasons rather than weight limitation reasons. Master Massage 32 WWW.MASTERMASSAGE.COM Table Specifications Size: 32" x 72" (W x L), 84" long including headrest Height: 24" - 34" (adjustable)...

The needs of different clients regarding the “Boyfriend Experience” are multifold. Most want penetrative sex as part of the experience, maybe some only want oral or fetish play as the sexual component. Sometimes no sex at all, but usually some form of sex. Often the BFE is geared toward more kissing and hugging and physical intimacy in addition to the sex itself. But all BFE clients have needs beyond sex - for companionship, understanding, compassion, connection, and acceptance. That may come in the form of conversation over dinner or sharing in the client’s non-sexual hobby. Cuddling in bed before/after. Being seen, heard and respected. One of my clients sees me for a combination of things. He likes to be massaged for part of his time which is great. I spank him and he ultimately gets off to that part which is how we typically end, but most importantly he sees me to kiss, cuddle, and to be held. We spend most of the session with me holding him in various close contact positions, and he weeps while I do. We alternate between moments of pleasure and moments of comfort, me holding him as he emotes. He likes to be physically dominated, and simulated sex is part of that (basically elements of frottage and wrestling), maybe some teasing his hole with my fingers and mouth here and there, but no actual penetration, says he doesn’t want it. Occasionally he likes to give oral. Those are the most traditional escort-y things we do. The real value to him is what we do beyond those. I don’t pry, but I know that he is a full time caretaker to his older husband and seeing me is his means of relief and reprieve, a sense of escape, and a place for him to relax and be himself. In fact, he often says “thank you for letting me be me”. Perhaps some of his need is to mourn the loss of his husband and by extension, loss of sex and a life with relative freedom. My client is clearly very sad and going through loss, even though his husband is still alive. In a way, it’s more difficult to cope because his husband lives on with a very limited physical capacity, leaving my client all the responsibility of marriage without any of the benefits. It’s sad. Seeing me gives him some sense of peace and comfort. For someone to take care of my client for a change. This is just one version of many constituting the “boyfriend experience”. Everyone is a bit different.

My setup in Dallas was like what you described: massage table in one area with my bed in another, all in one room. It was for space saving reasons. Some clients did make their way to my bed after (or instead of) massage time, but those were for escort appointments or combo massage/escort appointments they booked ahead for that purpose and for the appropriate rates. My clients don’t necessarily demand the table for massage, but I advertise myself that way and insist on using a table in my clients’ best interest, to give them the best massage experience and also for my own best interest, to perform my work efficiently and effectively. I can do neither on a bed. I do admit the bed being in the room was a subtle hint that more is available. I came to embrace that aspect, although that wasn’t the original purpose. I also hang bondage implements on the wall as decor alongside homoerotic artwork. Another not-so-subtle hint. Then again, I’ve worked out of one bedroom houses, where I kept all the sexy stuff separate, in the bedroom. The massage space was dedicated so there was no ambiguity. I liked having plenty of defined space for each activity. More being available (presumably at higher rates) does not mean your masseur is going to pressure you into hiring him for sex or that he will force you to partake in extras you don’t want. Frankly, a lot of clients would be pleased that the option is available, whether or not they take the option. Nobody is going to force you to do anything you don’t want to do. My setup now is a private room in an office suite in a professional building. I have to be more discreet than I have been in the past renting houses and apartments. My artwork is neutral, nothing sexy. Bondage equipment is stowed away, and there is no space for a bed at only 150 sf. I use the massage table for clients that want more than massage, and do outcalls for clients that really want or need a bed, or more space for activities, or a private shower, or the client is very loud (partly my fault) and needs more privacy. For some clients I rent space hourly at a local sex dungeon to host them. I save quite a bit of money each month operating this way. After doing massage and escort work in various setups, I can’t fault any masseurs for making their spaces work for their business and living situations. There is no one size fits all. We make the most with what we have at any given time and place in our lives.

I hire day laborers through neighbor referrals and from the Home Depot crowd. It’s very common for homeowners and contractors to hire them in California. For sex though, I feel like it’s predatory to solicit these guys. They are very hard working and honest people, in my experience. If they wanted to make some quick money turning tricks, they certainly would find a way. A lot of them really do need the money badly. Some live multiple families to one housing unit and struggle to pay for living expenses. One of my guys actually just quit because he is moving to another state to reduce his expenses. Like much of the population, most of the migrant workers are not cut out to be good escorts. It takes a lot of concurrent qualities, skills, interests, and willingness to take on sex work. Like most of us in the US, a lot of them wouldn’t consider sex work based on religious or moral reasons. Machismo culture in Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America is certainly a deterring factor. To sleep with men for money is demoralizing and humiliating. Plus they might not be good at it. Besides looks and cultural influences, it takes a lot to be a good male sex worker.

I’m one of the few who do both quite well. We exist! I have ads on the massage sites and escort sites. I agree, RentMen for the Boyfriend Experience, and RentMasseur for Massages. Some targeted research is necessary to get what you want - that and being upfront about exactly what you want with the guys in your shortlist. Masseurs won’t often deliver on BF experience, and escorts won’t often deliver on a quality skilled massage. Expect to pay escort rates whether or not there is a massage involved.

Regular coconut oil works nicely for hairy bodies, although it takes more of it to do the trick vs a smoother body. No bother. Fractionated is great for when you need it to be in a liquid form no matter the room temperature, for example, for use in a pump bottle. Fractionated coconut oil is indeed thinner than most other oils. Regular coconut oil solidifies under 78 degrees F. A pleasant texture for solid coconut oil is at room temperature between 73-76 degrees F as it is most workable and melts quickly after skin contact. Long enough to apply without dripping, short enough to melt right right onto the client’s skin in a few seconds after immediate application. 68 degrees F room temperature and below and coconut oil is harder to work with. Basically you have to warm it up in your hands for a while before applying to the client, or use a warmer, which tends to make it all liquid anyway, which is also hard to work with, as you don’t want to drip all over between your container and the client.

In theory, yes. In practice, no. There are many great reasons to be licensed in your jurisdiction. At a basic level, you have education and training qualifying you to practice massage professionally. That means you learned how to manually manipulate muscle tissue, fascia, and have a basic understanding of anatomy. I find value in education and training, but at the end of the day, you develop good skills, or you don’t. Book knowledge helps, but it can’t bestow skill. Practice hours only go so far. Real clients paying real money are where the rubber meets the road. A license doesn’t guarantee the masseur you’re seeing has the skills or experience to deliver an excellent service. Plenty of unlicensed guys do an amazing job, and plenty of licensed guys are so-so, if not downright bad. And of course the opposite is true too. That’s why clients need to do their research. It takes practical experience to succeed. You can get that through official means, or unofficial ones. I am still learning new things and brushing up on old things years into my career, and it’s not through schooling. It’s through trading massages, tips from my chiropractor, YouTube, and other free online resources. All of this knowledge, whether I learn it at a massage school or on my own, is only as useful as the level to which I apply it in my craft. If having a valid license is important to a masseur for business, practical, or personal reasons, then it behooves him to protect and maintain that license by only providing therapeutic massage services conforming to his state and local requirements, like always using draping, never touching genitals, following cleaning and safety procedures, among other things. Some local jurisdictions, like mine, require massage therapists to be registered with law enforcement. That’s actually a negative, since it puts a target on your back! A license you do not have is a license you cannot lose. Any consequences you may face like charges of prostitution apply whether you have a valid state license or not. We all assume some level of risk in this business, whether licensed, or unlicensed. Doing anything beyond therapeutic massage puts you at risk of losing a license, if you have one.

Organic coconut oil. Great all purpose lube, works very well for massage. Edible, healthy, great texture, don’t need tons of it. Keeps everything lubricated nicely without having to constantly reapply like you do with water based synthetic lubes. I’ve used grapeseed many years ago, but it doesn’t have a very stable shelf life. I prefer the qualities of coconut oil and it lasts longer - great for buying in bulk.

Sorry, I have no recommendations for specific providers, but while you’re there, you might enjoy Acqua Spa For Men. I had a good experience there. Clean, well maintained, and professionally delivered spa services. The Vichy shower is a must.

YES!

Always be clear up front that you want to top so that your guy knows to clean out before the appointment. Also, shit happens sometimes no matter how fastidious you are about prepping. Have some grace and consider hiring him again for another try.

^Yes, this is one of the ways I think about it. The center of gravity is NYC proper, but of course if I stayed outside the city I would naturally attract clients from areas around me that find my location more convenient for them. I’m not sure if I would get enough clients from outside the city to keep me fully booked, though.

Thanks @nycman. Your feedback represents pretty much what I thought, especially from those living in Manhattan. Thanks everyone else for their contributions so far, and keep your opinions coming. They all matter to me.

Crazy. Some cities that’s the price for an entire day. San Diego downtown is close to that range (for a day, not an hour).

Anyone can participate. Opinions from people who have knowledge of NYC or live there will be more relevant. I was trying to set up a more focused, productive discussion since NYC is unlike so many other US cities. The mentality and cultural norms I believe are unique. The transportation infrastructure in NYC is different from most of the country. Sense of space, distance, and time are also different. For example, people in San Diego wouldn’t dream of driving 30 mins north to see me outside of central neighborhoods, whereas people in Ft Worth wouldn’t think twice about driving 30 mins to an hour in traffic to see me in Dallas. Each place has its own norms. Since other cities will have their own quirks regarding travel distances, convenience and the like, I figured it would be best to keep the discussion more specific to NYC.

I was wondering about the outcall massage via train situation. I’m so used to driving with my equipment, parking nearby to my clients, and setting up that way. I imagine I would have to take trains to do a lot of the outcalls in NYC because driving and parking would be impractical in most areas of the city. Just assumptions on my part. Lugging a table around on a train. Doesn’t sound fun, especially when they’re crowded. I at least strap the table to a skateboard so I can push it rather than put all that pressure on my back slung over the shoulders walking several blocks at a time. For stairs only buildings, I just have to suck it up.

Or any mode of transportation, really. I realize many New Yorkers do not own cars, but some do, and others prefer rideshares or taxis over trains. Reminder to all: this thread is not necessarily about whether you would travel to see me, specifically. I spin the question from my perspective as an example, to give it stakes. I realize I am not a fit for everyone in terms of type or service offerings, and that’s fine. I’m wondering more generally about how New Yorkers think about traveling providers that interest them and what dynamics are at play in their decision making. You could swap me out with anyone that interests you posing the same question. Clients hiring for massage is of particular interest to me, but some of the same issues apply to escort only services too.

Thanks. Good to know. I would definitely travel for couples massages. Doubling up on the fee for back to back service makes outcalls worthwhile. Couples oftentimes feel much more comfortable in their own homes or likewise at their accommodations when they are traveling. I enjoy giving couples massages.