Another(!) reason I fly only on my Private Jet.

[TruthBTold]

Why? Strikes me as the obvious thing to do. Who else might he want to talk to?

 

I sincerely doubt this. And even if he did contact his attorney I am sure it was to find out if they could force him to leave the plane and if there were exceptions to any regulations regarding forced de-boarding, such as doctors. I think that any info about his contact his attorney was probably to make it seem like he already had a notion to sue. Instead it all occurred because they physically injured him by forcing him to leave so that their employees could have seats.

[corymonroe]

Oh, and the $1,350 cap is by federal law.

I've been hearing from the legal aviation talking heads that the cap is for the benefit and protection of the airline. Supposedly, if an airline wishes to increase the cap, there isn't a lawmaker anywhere who would disapprove of it. So if United wanted to offer more, it doesn't sound like there would be a penalty associated with that decision.

[+ nycman]

Oh, and the $1,350 cap is by federal law.

 

Actually, I believe that is the cap on what they are REQUIRED to offer if they can't get you to your final destination within 2 hours (4 hours international).

 

There's nothing that says they CAN'T offer more.....they're just not REQUIRED to do so.

 

Right now....I'm betting United would be willing to pay a shitload more...to make this all go away.

 

Funny, all the laws seem to be written about being "denied boarding".....he was allowed to board...that wasn't the issue....it's the forceful removal

AFTER he was allowed to board.....I don't see such clear laws about that....I'm willing to bet that that's why United it playing up his "disruptive"

behavior....for which they CAN forcefully remove you.

 

The lawyers are going to have a field day with this one!

[+ azdr0710]

1. buried somewhere in the Contract Of Carriage, I presume, is a line that allows airlines to bump already-seated passengers...we all agree to this Contract when we buy a ticket

 

2. UAL called in the "cops" from the Chicago Aviation Authority (or whatever it's called) when the guy wouldn't get off voluntarily....they were certainly aggressive (not UAL's fault) and I'm sure UAL now wishes they hadn't been....the aviation authority is going thru it's own hand-wringing now with its staff and procedures, in addition to UAL doing the same......

 

3. social media has a lot to do with the "hysterical" nature of this episode.....

 

4. the bumped doctor, let's face it, has some culpability with how this all went down.....

 

5. UAL very definitely should've upped the voucher offer when nobody voluntarily accepted it.....I hope something comes out about why they didn't.....

Edited April 13, 2017 by azdr0710

[Larstrup]

1. buried somewhere in the Contract Of Carriage, I presume, is a line that allows airlines to bump already-seated passengers...we all agree to this Contract when we buy a ticket

 

2. UAL called in the "cops" from the Chicago Aviation Authority (or whatever it's called) when the guy wouldn't get off voluntarily....they were certainly aggressive (not UAL's fault) and I'm sure UAL now wishes they hadn't been....the aviation authority is going thru it's own hand-wringing now with its staff and procedures, in addition to UAL doing the same......

 

3. social media has a lot to do with the "hysterical" nature of this episode.....

 

4. the Asian doctor, let's face it, has some culpability with how this all went down.....

 

5. UAL very definitely should've upped the voucher offer when nobody voluntarily accepted it.....I hope something comes out about why they didn't.....

 

Absent social media, this would've just been a normal operating day for United Airlines. But social media was there to record this event, not unlike the brutal and often illegal events that are occurring all across our nation with people in authority. One would have to believe that in the day and age which we live in that United airlines would have been smart enough to realize that every single passenger on that aircraft was potentially recording every moment and movement that they made during this situation and would have chosen a better resolution to all of this. This is about their culture as a company.

 

Whatever you might think of the doctor and his past, for me it's Irrrelevant because if brutality is the accepted resolve to these type situations based upon who we are than all of us should publicly disclose every single thing we've ever done in our past so that it can never be used against us when we find ourselves being dragged down the aisle of an airliner or it's horrific equivalent.

[rguer]

1. buried somewhere in the Contract Of Carriage, I presume, is a line that allows airlines to bump already-seated passengers...we all agree to this Contract when we buy a ticket

 

The Contract of Carriage mentions the right to deny boarding; refusal to carry, which is what happened here (boarding had already happened), is in a different section. No one is saying United didn't have a right to refuse to allow him to board in the first place, but they didn't exercise that right, and they did allow him to board and take a seat.

[+ glutes]

Dear UAL, remove scorpions, not passengers. I will continue to fly my PJ's!

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — It’s been a bad week for United airlines, but this one stings.

 

Passenger Richard Bell was traveling on board Flight 1418 from Calgary to Houston when he was stung by a scorpion, CBS News confirmed.

 

The scorpion fell onto Bell’s head and stung him underneath his fingernail.

 

“We were on the plane about an hour, having dinner, and then something fell on my head, so I grabbed it. I was hanging onto it,” he said. “It was lucky that it hit my nail more than my skin I think, so maybe my thumbnail saved me a little bit.”

 

United apologized and offered Bell and his wife a credit for a future flight.

 

As a precaution, crews also checked the airplane for a possible infestation.

[+ azdr0710]

now I hope deliberate petty sabotage (bugs and the like) and staged/scripted outrage doesn't become the norm for some folks trying to get free stuff!

[+ purplekow]

Yeah Scorpion has very little bite.

[LADoug1]

I haven't seen the official take on this. A lot of the legal kerfuffle hinges on passengers who have not yet boarded. Once on board, it's a whole different set of regulations for who can be removed.

 

My understanding is that the plane had been boarded and then the four employees came to be seated. If you or I tried that ("I'm a world-famous lawyer and I need to be in court in the morning!"), we'd be laughed off.

And yes, there are limits to how long a rest flight attendants have to have between flights, so they can hardly be held responsible for their job responsibilities that United created.

 

Oh, and the $1,350 cap is by federal law.

 

If it's a federal law then it needs to be amended.

[LADoug1]

Wasn't he selected randomly? If so this process should be changed. Upping incentives is the answer or at least choosing passengers who checked in last.

[mike carey]

Wasn't he selected randomly?

I think I read that it was based in part on the fare paid and the passengers' frequent flyer status.

[Gvtire]

Do you have a verifiable source you can cite or is this conjecture to make the passenger look bad?

 

CNN reported this on New Day

Edited April 14, 2017 by Gvtire

[tanman4u]

A couple of thoughts from a (thankfully) former airline employee (officer actually).

 

As was already correctly pointed out, the $1350 isn't the maximum the airline is allowed to pay, it's the maximum they can be forced to pay. I'm guessing that once the payout passed $1000 or so people would have been lining up to take advantage. Hell, $2000, $3000? You'd have to hit several million before it would become a less expensive method than what happened.

 

How is it that the crew of 4 was able to show up at the last minute and bump paid, and already boarded, customers? Didn't they know that crew needed to be in Louisville? It would have been much easier to deal with it BEFORE boarding the plane and then having to drag someone off.

 

Ethnicity doesn't enter into the algorithm used to determine to whom an "involuntary denied boarding" applies. The computer won't bump a family member if it splits the family up. It won't bump an unaccompanied minor. It won't bump anyone with "status". It won't bump anyone with downline connections that would be difficult to protect (I doubt if anyone has ever connected in Louisville).

 

The bottom line is that UA picked what was most assuredly the most expensive way possible to handle that situation. AND, it wasn't actually "United" it was their Express carrier Republic.

[+ Keith30309]

A couple of thoughts from a (thankfully) former airline employee (officer actually).

 

As was already correctly pointed out, the $1350 isn't the maximum the airline is allowed to pay, it's the maximum they can be forced to pay. I'm guessing that once the payout passed $1000 or so people would have been lining up to take advantage. Hell, $2000, $3000? You'd have to hit several million before it would become a less expensive method than what happened.

 

How is it that the crew of 4 was able to show up at the last minute and bump paid, and already boarded, customers? Didn't they know that crew needed to be in Louisville? It would have been much easier to deal with it BEFORE boarding the plane and then having to drag someone off.

 

Ethnicity doesn't enter into the algorithm used to determine to whom an "involuntary denied boarding" applies. The computer won't bump a family member if it splits the family up. It won't bump an unaccompanied minor. It won't bump anyone with "status". It won't bump anyone with downline connections that would be difficult to protect (I doubt if anyone has ever connected in Louisville).

 

The bottom line is that UA picked what was most assuredly the most expensive way possible to handle that situation. AND, it wasn't actually "United" it was their Express carrier Republic.

 

I was flying the Thursday before the Sunday on which this occurred and I suspect that United was in a similar position as Delta (who cancelled two of my flights before putting me on a third to a different city) - they were desperately trying to get flight crews who had enough eligible flight hours to locations so that they could work a stranded flight. This was all part of a domino-effect begun by bad weather and exacerbated by super-thin margins on idle staff and aircraft.

The logistics and technology that enable airlines to plan just-in-time people and assets and minimize non-productive expense is great until there's an unexpected disruption... then there's a massive ripple effect because there's no excess capacity to absorb the delayed demand. Delta in Atlanta wasn't back to normal until early Monday morning:

 

It was an accumulation of events that began with unprecedented severe weather in Atlanta on April 5th, when seven storm cells, including tornadic activity, passed over the airport and shut down our operation for much of the day. Our recovery was hampered by a lack of available seats resulting from heightened spring break travel volume, as well as an inability of our crew-tracking systems and processes to adequately position our people to do their jobs.

 

My guess - completely speculation - is that the United flight operations group was frantically trying to get the situation under control and desperately needed that crew. Unfortunately a culture of lack of respect for both crew and passengers has developed in commercial aviation and this is one example.

[mike carey]

My guess - completely speculation - is that the United flight operations group was frantically trying to get the situation under control and desperately needed that crew. Unfortunately a culture of lack of respect for both crew and passengers has developed in commercial aviation and this is one example.

With a bit of luck the airlines (not just United, but all of them) will have come to the conclusion that the time for involuntary denial of passage ends when the customer steps onto the aeroplane. By all means deny boarding before then, but thereafter it should only be voluntary, however much that costs them. If they haven't worked out that they need the seats before the pax board, too bad.

[+ Funguy]

A "round-the-world" ticket would not have been necessary. A single business class ticket from NYC to LAX, if purchased today on United, would cost $3900. Imagine what the reaction would have been if United offered four $3900 vouchers. Imagine what the reaction would have been if United offered cash in any amount $1000 and up.

 

Not only are they losing millions now, wait until the lawyers get finished with United. This catastrophe is going to linger for awhile.

 

And what about the guy on United in First Class with a Full Fare ticket that they tossed off who at least wound up in economy. Did he get his full fare back - no!

[mike carey]

And what about the guy on United in First Class with a Full Fare ticket that they tossed off who at least wound up in economy. Did he get his full fare back - no!

And sitting between a couple who were having a domestic dispute and wouldn't sit together!! Bumped because of a 'higher priority passenger' FFS. If I recall correctly he was a mutual fund manager, so not some pleb.

[Gvtire]

A couple of thoughts from a (thankfully) former airline employee (officer actually).

 

 

How is it that the crew of 4 was able to show up at the last minute and bump paid, and already boarded, customers? D

 

Ethnicity doesn't enter into the algorithm used to determine to whom an "involuntary denied boarding" applies. The computer won't bump a family member if it splits the family up. It won't bump an unaccompanied minor. It won't bump anyone with "status". It won't bump anyone with downline connections that would be difficult to protect (I doubt if anyone has ever connected in Louisville).

 

Why would he be choosen, since his wife was supposedly flying with him?

[+ Keith30309]

All good points.

 

No business which goes to war with its customers can survive.

[+ azdr0710]

time to trot some of these out......

 

 

and a 1970s example of "paying it forward"....yes, that's Boss Hogg from "The Dukes of Hazzard"

 

 

and "the travail has been taken out of travel":

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R82WY76yMbY

Edited April 14, 2017 by azdr0710

[+ Funguy]

Would have been cheaper and more expedient to put the 4 "crew members" in a Limo and drive them to Louisville.

[tanman4u]

Would have been cheaper and more expedient to put the 4 "crew members" in a Limo and drive them to Louisville.

At this point it would have been cheaper to them on Oaktown's private jet.

[gallahadesquire]

Why would he be choosen, since his wife was supposedly flying with him?

 

The other two people were apparently a couple, too. So that's not a criterion.

[gallahadesquire]

Would have been cheaper and more expedient to put the 4 "crew members" in a Limo and drive them to Louisville.

 

that probably would have exceeded their number of "awake hours" or some such BS. And four implies to me that either the entire crew in Louisville didn't show up / were over hours, or there was more than one flight screwed up.