Another(!) reason I fly only on my Private Jet.

[instudiocity]

And yet... his histrionics and act of civil disobedience is going to get him a large payout and has forced the airlines to change their policies regarding booting off passengers who have already boarded. Yeah, he's a real dummy.

And you and I shall pay him every dime. Increased costs through higher airfares, higher insurance costs, not to mentioned the costs of our time negotiating our way through TSA, airline boarding schemes and a general slowdown in how we travel by air.

 

Dr Hao was belligerent and we are rewarding him.

[MikeyGMin]

And you and I shall pay him every dime. Increased costs through higher airfares, higher insurance costs, not to mentioned the costs of our time negotiating our way through TSA, airline boarding schemes and a general slowdown in how we travel by air.

 

Dr Hao was belligerent and we are rewarding him.

Not sure how any of this has anything to do with getting through TSA, but as far as the rest, it's a price I'm willing to pay. The airlines' practice of over booking flights has gotten crazy. The bartering that takes place before you get onboard has become so commonplace that we take it for granted. I would like to know that once I finally get on the damn plane I am all set -- unless I choose to take a good offer.

[instudiocity]

Not sure how any of this has anything to do with getting through TSA, but as far as the rest, it's a price I'm willing to pay. The airlines' practice of over booking flights has gotten crazy. The bartering that takes place before you get onboard has become so commonplace that we take it for granted. I would like to know that once I finally get on the damn plane I am all set -- unless I choose to take a good offer.

What you are going to see is, "NO ONE WILL GET ON THE PLANE" until they've eliminated any overbooking. And just like the FAA late arrivals report, the airlines will bump in another 15 minutes to the schedule so they will look good with their on-time reports.

 

Last year, I flew Delta into LAX 6 times. Once we arrived, we sat with the plane stopped on a taxiway no less than 30 minutes and as long as 1:30 waiting for a clear gate. I calculated I spent 4.5 hours in the penalty box for "early" arrivals. According to Delta and the OTP gurus, the plane arrived On-Time all six times. Seems sitting on the ground unable to exit for 4.5 hours is OK to the data gurus, if the airline performed to it's schedule.

 

Get this, flight time from LAX to SLC is 2:10, but actual flight time is 1:30. Flights from LAX to OAK are 1:30 while actual flight time is 0:54 minutes. Who are they trying to kid? The extra minutes in their itinerary are strictly to play the data game with On Time Performance.

 

So now, the airlines will build in extra time on the front end of the schedule so they can change the way they deal with overbooking. Trust me, no airline and no government administrator is going to allow a plane to fly with empty seats if there is a butt for that bucket. Over-booking will continue, or airline seat pricing will rise. Either way, we, the travelers lose.

 

The only other answer is a traveler loses all their money when they miss a flight because the airlines will not lose money, intentionally.

[rguer]

In response to his continuing and repeated refusal to comply with contractual and lawful requests AFTER being informed of the consequences of his refusal.

 

That's before BEFORE he was "treated horribly."

 

In general, no one is obliged to follow an illegal order. Whether he was under any contractual obligation is in dispute .

[LADoug1]

Perhaps priority should be based on when passengers checked in. Last ones to check in are the first to get bumped if other incentives don't work.

[+ glutes]

DETROIT (WWJ) – While some are dragged off a plane kicking and screaming for refusing to give up their seat or berated and bashed with a stroller, a Garden City woman has filed a civil suit against Delta Airlines after she says she was sexually assaulted on a flight from Myrtle Beach.

 

And she says the flight attendants did nothing to stop the man next to her from masturbating or assaulting her until they landed.

 

The passenger on that flight, Christopher Finkley, 41, was convicted last month of assault and indecent exposure.

[MikeBiDude]

United and the good Doctor $ettled today

[instudiocity]

In general, no one is obliged to follow an illegal order. Whether he was under any contractual obligation is in dispute .

Interesting. So you believe that the exchange of money for services doesn't constitute a contract?

[jawjateck]

I enjoyed the PS weekend, but every time I fly I am left with an awful feeling of the whole sordid mess, and am glad that I have reduced my air travel to fewer than 10x annually. TSA managed to screw up the pre-check lines at airports on both ends, one flight had over 25 people on stand-by (the gate was ridiculously crowded), and both legs of the return flight landed on time, but had to wait for over 30 minutes each for the assigned gate to free up.

 

Yes, I will fly again, but it feels good to stay home on the ranch for awhile.

[marylander1940]

This is the email I got from United.

 

Dear XXX,

 

Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

 

Oscar Munoz

CEO

United Airlines

[+ azdr0710]

the latest social media scandal......and, again, with a racial background edge

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/delta-employees-asked-man-leave-flight-after-using-restroom-videos-n751811

[+ glutes]

United and the good Doctor $ettled today

 

And in other news, Dr. Dao announced he is retiring from practicing medicine and will be writing his autobiography, "Travel is a Drag".

[+ purplekow]

As far as the United event is concerned, United was opting to fly its employees instead of the paying customer. It was not a matter of being overbooked. They were quite willing to delay that flight for hours and did so, when a car ride for the employees would have taken only slightly longer than the plane flight plus the delay. A bit of common sense and some outside the box thinking may have avoided the entire incident. United decided to dig its heels in, as did Dr. Dao. Dr. Dao was dragged through the plane and United was dragged through the mud. In the end, United won the battle and lost the war.

[Larstrup]

This is the email I got from United.

 

Dear XXX,

 

Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

 

Oscar Munoz

CEO

United Airlines

 

They seemingly know you well.

[+ g56whiz]

They seemingly know you well.

 

I guess they know me also. I got the same email.

[rguer]

Interesting. So you believe that the exchange of money for services doesn't constitute a contract?

If there was a contractual obligation, it was for United to let him on that flight. It's not clear that he was under any obligation to get off the plane after he had boarded. Everyone agrees that they could have denied him boarding initially. But they didn't; they tried to revoke his boarding after they had already collected his ticket and sat down on the plane, which is a different thing.

[Larstrup]

I guess they know me also. I got the same email.

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Larstrup

[instudiocity]

If there was a contractual obligation, it was for United to let him on that flight. It's not clear that he was under any obligation to get off the plane after he had boarded. Everyone agrees that they could have denied him boarding initially. But they didn't; they tried to revoke his boarding after they had already collected his ticket and sat down on the plane, which is a different thing.

Don't argue with me about it, argue with the Rules of Carriage written by the airline in compliance with Federal aviation mandates...

 

Ya gotta keep in mind, "failure to follow a flight attendant's instructions" is a Federal crime. I don't remember any Federal crimes being adjudicated between rows 15 and 16 on any commercial airliner. You can have your day in court, but not while you're disobeying the duly constituted authority that's telling you what to do.

[Larstrup]

Good Grief! This is a closed and settled matter.

[LivingnLA]

Don't argue with me about it, argue with the Rules of Carriage written by the airline in compliance with Federal aviation mandates...

 

Ya gotta keep in mind, "failure to follow a flight attendant's instructions" is a Federal crime. I don't remember any Federal crimes being adjudicated between rows 15 and 16 on any commercial airliner. You can have your day in court, but not while you're disobeying the duly constituted authority that's telling you what to do.

 

The facts in this situation are very clear and indisputable, which is probably why United settled generously and secretly instead of a drawn out public legal case that would've been terrible PR, established a hard precedent, and likely resulted in a much bigger payout.

 

If you don't believe me about how blatantly United violated their own Contract for Carriage, then read this clear write-up from a lawyer:

 

http://nationallawforum.com/2017/04/14/united-airlines-dr-dao-contract-carriage/

 

If you want a deeper analysis that further explains how badly United screwed up:

 

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-removal-reporting-management-fail.html

 

And another analysis by a libertarian business guy who also agrees United violated their own Contract for Carriage:

 

https://thefederalist.com/2017/04/11/did-united-airlines-violate-its-own-contract-by-forcing-that-passenger-off-the-plane/

Edited April 29, 2017 by LivingnLA

[+ glutes]

Just when you thought your legroom in economy class couldn't get tighter.

American Airlines (AAL) is planning to decrease the front-to-back space between some of its economy class seats by another two inches.

The airline says it plans to add more seats on its coming Boeing (BA) 737 Max jetliners. To do that, it will shrink the distance between seats, also known as pitch, from 31 inches to 29 inches on three rows of the airplane, and down to 30-inches in the rest of its main economy cabin.

CNN Money

[Larstrup]

United Airlines passenger who thought she was traveling to Paris, lands in SFO

A United Airlines passenger boarded a plane in Newark believing that she was headed to Paris. Hours later, the plane touched down at San Francisco International Airport (SFO).

 

Lucie Bahetoukilae, a French woman who does not speak English, carried a boarding pass that read, "Newark to Charles de Gaulle," reports ABC 7. She approached the gate listed on the pass, where a flight attendant scanned her ticket before she boarded the plane.

 

With her niece acting as translator, Bahetoukilae recalled approaching her seat – 22C – only to find it already occupied. Bahetoukilae said the flight attendant came over to look at her boarding pass before assigning her a new seat.

 

Three thousand miles later, Bahetoukilae disembarked at SFO, where she reportedly waited an additional 11 hours before boarding a flight back to Paris. In total, she claims to have been traveling for 28 hours.

 

Bahetoukilae said she did not realize that the airline had changed her flight's boarding gate. She told ABC that United did not make a gate announcement in French or notify her by email.

 

United gave Bahetoukilae a flight voucher and said they were "working with their team in Newark to prevent this from happening again."

 

http://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/United-Airlines-passenger-flight-paris-travel-sfo-11122917.php

[mike carey]

That to me is a 'could happen to anyone' moment. Careless on the part of United, shouldn't have happened, but it did, and to my mind once the mistake had been realised the airline did the right thing. As to not notifying her, illustration if ever it were needed that you should check the departure board at the airport, especially if you checked in on line hours earlier. Announcements? In my recent recollection, foreign airlines in Australia and the US make announcements in English and their own language (Cathay in Cantonese not Mandarin - screw you Beijing) but local ones do so only in English.

 

Most likely untrue, but funny, I recall a story of an Air New Zealand flight to Los Angeles being announced as having 'continued service to Auckland'. One passenger allegedly heard this as 'to Oakland' and stayed on board. Then, two hours into the flight ....

[+ azdr0710]

and the payday opportunities continue????.......

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-family-kicked-delta-flight-threatened-jail-refusing-give-toddler-n755141

[instudiocity]

and the payday opportunities continue????.......

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-family-kicked-delta-flight-threatened-jail-refusing-give-toddler-n755141

Yeah, the Feds say the name 0n the ticket is the only name that can fly the seat. The family, especially Daddy-o presumed themselves into that royal fuck-up.

Edited May 6, 2017 by instudiocity