Grammar police, unite!

[+ quoththeraven]

Let me publicly declare my love for thee!

 

There is some scholarship that French spelling owes much of its silly complexities to the fact of early Renaissance public scribes in the city marketplaces charging by the letter.

 

Well, no wonder. Greed and corruption win again.

[+ Gar1eth]

Having learned Latin, French and German, I really appreciate the streamlined elegance of English. French is pretty good, but German and Latin are hopelessly clunky compared to English.

While I'm not good enough at Latin to know, for centuries Latin was considered a language that taught logic. Classical Latin was considered an extremely elegant and beautiful language. That's why it was the lingua franca of learned men for centuries.

 

Gman

[liubit]

Give me Spanish any day. Much easier to pronounce (no dipthongs) and prettier.

Also no inflected nouns, though nouns are uniformly gendered.

Spanish is my mother tongue, and I can say you are partially right, @quoththeraven. It is true that nouns are almost non inflected (they do change in the plural, generally by simply adding "S" to a vowel-ending stem, or "ES" if the stem ends in a consonant), BUT they are not uniformly gendered. There are two genders, masculine and feminine, for nouns, adjectives, pronouns, and articles. EL niño es bonitO (the boy is pretty), but LA niña es bonitA (the girl is pretty).

[+ quoththeraven]

Spanish is my mother tongue, and I can say you are partially right, @quoththeraven. It is true that nouns are almost non inflected (they do change in the plural, generally by simply adding "S" to a vowel-ending stem, or "ES" if the stem ends in a consonant), BUT they are not uniformly gendered. There are two genders, masculine and feminine, for nouns, adjectives, pronouns, and articles. EL niño es bonitO (the boy is pretty), but LA niña es bonitA (the girl is pretty).

 

Yes, I'm aware of that. I was insufficiently specific.

[Guest]

Give me Spanish any day. Much easier to pronounce (no dipthongs) and prettier.

 

Also no inflected nouns, though nouns are uniformly gendered.

 

My reaction to French is: get away from me, Satan. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to whether final consonants are sounded or not and spelling is the pits. Three vowels in a row? Vieux Montreal, Joyeaux Noel -- what's the point of those x's anyways? Or the final r in au revoir?

 

Latin grammar may be more difficult, but Latin pronunciation is a breeze.

 

From what I've read, Finnish is considered the hardest language in the world for a non-native to master.

 

Hmm. Well, it's Joyeux Noel. But I always laugh at French spelling. Only English is nuttier. My favorite French word is "eaux" or "waters." It's pronounced like the letter "O", but has just about every word in the alphabet except for "O". OK, so that's a slight exaggeration. I've read that Icelandic and Basque are the most difficult languages on the planet.

[Rudynate]

Hmm. Well, it's Joyeux Noel. But I always laugh at French spelling. Only English is nuttier. My favorite French word is "eaux" or "waters." It's pronounced like the letter "O", but has just about every word in the alphabet except for "O". OK, so that's a slight exaggeration. I've read that Icelandic and Basque are the most difficult languages on the planet.

 

 

Never occurred to me to question French spelling, it is what it is.

[MikeBiDude]

An Oxford Comma! HURRAH!

Ok, forum wise this guy belongs in the deli. But I thought grammar wise his name belongs here

https://rentmen.com/Oxfordcomma

[+ purplekow]

Ok, forum wise this guy belongs in the deli. But I thought grammar wise his name belongs here

https://rentmen.com/Oxfordcomma

He may have a bent toward good grammar, but his ad does not. "...very very naturally smooth..." Perhaps he meant "...very, very smooth, naturally..." or "...naturally, very, very smooth. "

[MsGuy]

Off the main topic, I read somewhere that the English vocabulary contains about three times as many words as most, or at least many, other languages, on account of having three big sources: Anglo + Saxon + Norman.

 

Angle + Saxon = one source. German tribes at the time were as much fluid political groupings as ethnic/linguistic entities. They tended to be constantly merging and fracturing much as the Jutes (the 3rd Germanic tribe that displaced the Romano Brits) soon merged with the Angles, thereby losing their chance to be immortalized in the pantheon of our Anglo-Saxon history.

 

Your main point remains correct. English has an unusually large vocabulary. OED puts it at least 1/4 million (or as much as 3/4 million), depending on what you want to call a word. Other sources put it at well north of one million.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=funny+daily+jokes+pictures&safe=off&client=browser-ubuntu&channel=fe&hl=en&biw=1368&bih=781&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-38eumf7PAhXhzFQKHRhTA3sQ_AUIBSgA&dpr=1#safe=off&channel=fe&hl=en&q=number+of+words+in+english

 

By contrast, French has has between 100,000 and 350,000, again depending on how you define 'word'.

[+ Charlie]

And German manages to multiply its vocabulary simply by combining two words into one (e.g., Weltanshauung, Shadenfreude, etc.)

[jjkrkwood]

Found this article in the Sydney Morning Herald.

 

Study: People who point out spelling mistakes are massive jerks

 

Grammar police beware.

 

Jun 7, 2016

 

 

Scientists have found that people who get themselves into a tizzy about mundane grammatical errors online have "less agreeable" personalities than their more relaxed (much cooler?) counterparts.

 

In a new University of Michigan study titled "If You're House Is Still Available, researchers found grammar police tend to be disagreeable, close-minded, and conscientious introverts – jerks, basically.

 

The study’s authors asked 83 participants to read emails - some with typos, some not - and evaluate the sender’s level of intelligence. They were then asked to evaluate themselves on the 5 Big Personality Traits: extraversion, agreeability, conscientiousness, neuroticism, and openness.

 

Overall everyone rated the fictional applicants with typos worse than those with perfect spelling but those with less agreeable personalities got more upset by grammatical errors.

 

Researchers noted that this could be because “less agreeable people are less tolerant of deviations from convention.”

 

So before you point out any typos in this article, think about what that really says about yuo.

 

 

Guess I am a 'disagreeable' but that is better than being a 'deplorable'.

 

I dont give a fuck how you say it or spell it, as long as it's the TRUTH (however, you MUST use the correct word)

[+ poolboy48220]

This is probably the wrong time to point out how people's mis-use of "utilize" in meetings grates on my ears.

[rvwnsd]

This is probably the wrong time to point out how people's mis-use of "utilize" in meetings grates on my ears.

Thankfully, you did not say "mis-utilization."

[+ OliverSaks]

I must be a total mouthbreather because it never even occurred to me that there is a difference between "use" and "utilize."

 

It always makes me smile when an escort lists one of his traits as "highly educated" or "smart," yet it is rife with spelling and grammar mistakes. The irony is simply delicious. (I'm sure I've been guilty of this at some point too, so feast on it, you beauties!!!)

 

-0S

[escortrod]

I must be a total mouthbreather because it never even occurred to me that there is a difference between "use" and "utilize."

 

It always makes me smile when an escort lists one of his traits as "highly educated" or "smart," yet it is rife with spelling and grammar mistakes. The irony is simply delicious. (I'm sure I've been guilty of this at some point too, so feast on it, you beauties!!!)

 

-0S

 

Sorry, but I had to.

[+ OliverSaks]

Sorry, but I had to.

I'm in the business of feeding ya'll delicious morsels at every moment!

[+ OliverSaks]

What's wrong with ' an escort' ? Did I miss something?

I think that the pronoun "it" didn't agree with "an escort."

 

Should have been "an escort" and "his ad" (replacing "it").

 

If I'm wrong... just count me as someone to whom you can arbitrarily feel superior.

[rvwnsd]

I must be a total mouthbreather because it never even occurred to me that there is a difference between "use" and "utilize."...

"Use" and "utilize" mean essentially the same thing, the subtle difference being that "utilize" can mean "to make use of something for a purpose something was not necessarily intended." However, when a person over-uses the word "utilize" my ears start to beed. (Figuratively, of course). I had a colleague who would say things like "we can utilize a pencil" or "should I utilize the short form or long form." She toned it down when her husband asked her to stop using the word at home.

[TopTierTop]

Found on cnn.com this morning:

 

"Malia Obama, the oldest of President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama's two daughters, will attend Harvard University.'

Other than my pure hatred of the word gifted, I try to be tolerant, but media these days need better proof-reading. And what is wrong with the phrases:

I

gave

her a book.

I was

given

a book.

In the passive voice, A book was gifted to me is just awkward.

 

Whilst I'm at it, Extra Points if anyone can tell me the difference between a gift and a present.

 

Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate

("abandon all hope, ye who enter here" - Dante's Inferno, some canto or another)

this is for those who want a translation as a matter of course.

That made me so hard! haha!

[+ WmClarke]

I'm in the business of feeding ya'll delicious morsels at every moment!

Did you go to Joy again?

[+ honcho]

I think this is a worthy footnote to the discussion of the Oxford Comma:

 

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2017/03/15/oxford-comma-maine-labor-dispute/

 

 

Oxford Comma Decides Court Case in Maine Labor Dispute

Never underestimate the power of good grammar.

By Kyle Scott Clauss | Boston Daily | March 15, 2017, 11:12 a.m.

34.3K143234.7K

http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/oakhurst-dairy.jpg

Photo via AP

Vampire Weekend and the AP Stylebook be damned! The Oxford comma—or rather, the lack of one—helped decide a Maine court case over overtime pay for dairy workers earlier this week.

 

Also known as the serial comma, the Oxford comma is used before a conjunction like “and” or “or” in a series of three or more items. (For example: “I’m going to buy some eggs, milk, and bread.”) Critics feel it’s clunky and superfluous, while diehard supporters believe it’s absolutely essential for clarity. (For what it’s worth, Boston magazine’s official style uses the Oxford comma.)

 

Delivery drivers for Oakhurst Dairy won their suit against the Portland milk and cream company, after a U.S. court of appeals found that the wording of Maine’s overtime rules were written ambiguously. Per state law, the following activities are not eligible for overtime pay:

 

The canning, processing, preserving,

freezing, drying, marketing, storing,

packing for shipment or distribution of:

(1) Agricultural produce;

(2) Meat and fish products; and

(3) Perishable foods.

 

Oakhurst argued that “distribution of” was separate from “packing for shipment,” which would allow the company to claim exemption from paying its delivery drivers over time. In trying to prove lawmakers’ intent, Oakhurst even pointed to Maine’s legislative style guide, which advises against using the Oxford comma.

 

“For want of a comma, we have this case,” U.S. appeals judge David J. Barron wrote.

The appeals court ruled in favor of the five delivery drivers Monday, citing the “remedial purpose” of the state’s overtime laws as reason to interpret them liberally. So rejoice, grammar nerds, and know that the law is on your side.

[rvwnsd]

This is not the first time a court case was decided upon by the absence of an Oxford comma.

 

Wanna bet the Maine legislative style guide gets revisited, reviewed, and rewritten?

[mike carey]

Wanna bet the Maine legislative style guide gets revisited, reviewed, and rewritten?

Not placing any bets, but your red comma is unnecessary for clarity (the rule of thumb I tend to apply). Of course we don't know what the original intention was. It may well have been 'packing for shipment or distribution'. But if that's what they meant, I would have thought it should have been '... or packing for shipment or distribution' as that combined item as a whole would have been the last item on the list. It's all good fun, though. But this is what courts do in the absence of evidence from when the bill was being debated in the legislature. Regardless of the drafting, everything in the list is about things that are done in the factory. 'Distribution' as a separate activity does not fit well in such a group of activities.

[Despardo]

quoting here from Wikipedia:

 

In some circumstances using the serial comma can create ambiguity. If the book dedication above is changed to

 

To my mother, Mother Teresa, and the Pope

the serial comma after Mother Teresa creates ambiguity about the writer's mother because it uses punctuation identical to that used for an appositive phrase, leaving it unclear whether this is a list of three entities (1, my mother; 2, Mother Teresa; and 3, the Pope) or of only two entities (1, my mother, who is Mother Teresa; and 2, the Pope). Without a serial comma, the above dedication would read: To my mother, Mother Teresa and the Pope, a phrase ambiguous only if the reader accepts the interpretation my mother, who is both Mother Teresa and the Pope.

[+ Gar1eth]

quoting here from Wikipedia:

 

In some circumstances using the serial comma can create ambiguity. If the book dedication above is changed to

 

To my mother, Mother Teresa, and the Pope

the serial comma after Mother Teresa creates ambiguity about the writer's mother because it uses punctuation identical to that used for an appositive phrase, leaving it unclear whether this is a list of three entities (1, my mother; 2, Mother Teresa; and 3, the Pope) or of only two entities (1, my mother, who is Mother Teresa; and 2, the Pope). Without a serial comma, the above dedication would read: To my mother, Mother Teresa and the Pope, a phrase ambiguous only if the reader accepts the interpretation my mother, who is both Mother Teresa and the Pope.

 

Not being from Missouri and in light of Pope Joan, I'll accept it.

 

Gman