Broaching The Subject of Preferred Activities With Provider

[Simon Suraci]

17 hours ago, Archangel said:

engage a guy before you figure out he’s a flake.

^The pros aren’t flakes. You engage to see if he is a pro. You don’t necessarily know he’s a pro until you engage.

17 hours ago, Archangel said:

guys I can tell are treating RM like a monetized Grindr. They want to get paid for casual sex.

^But this isn’t just casual sex. It’s paid sex. It’s professional, and it’s work. The motives are not personal, but professional. I believe you’re missing the crucial difference between the two. Each has different rules, different dynamics. Asking the same guy for casual (free, mutual interest) sex and then turning around and asking him for paid sex is telling him to play by different rules. And when he does take your lead and play by those new rules, you don’t like it.

On 4/29/2025 at 2:40 PM, Archangel said:

A quick “yea, I love that” is my indicator that he’s just out to score a client, not deliver a satisfactory experience.

^I struggle to see why “scoring” a client and delivering a satisfactory experience are mutually exclusive.

I’m also wondering what would constitute a satisfactory response for you. Many of my text interactions are similar to what you wrote. Things like “Yes, I’m a great rimmer.” “I enjoy kissing”. “I am on board with all that you mentioned”. “Yes, this is a strength of mine.” “I can definitely do X for you”. “I have little [or no] experience with Y, so I may not be the best fit for you.”

Do you need your provider to fawn, to send five exclamation marks, to beg, or offer to do it for free because he is so thrilled to do [insert sexual activity here] with [client he has never met]? If so, count me out. I am not that guy and don’t want to be.

The best providers among us keep our communications cordial, but direct and professional. That might look like a provider saying, “Thank you for sharing. Yes, our interests are compatible. We are going to have a great time.” or “Can you tell me more about how you want X to go so I can make this a great experience for you?”

Or would you rather receive something like, “OMG I would LOVE to [fill in blank]!!!!! I’m so hard rn just dripping wet in my pants thinking about it. I’m desperate for your [fill in the blank]. Daddy, please, I need you now! Uuuunngghhh.”

OK. Point made. What exactly is this fine line you need a provider to walk? What do you want his communication to look like? Can you give some examples of successful communication about compatibility and interests? What does a good interaction look like to you?

So you want the provider to be “into” all of the things that align with your preferences (fair enough) and you want him to confirm those things (fair enough), and with some very specific level of enthusiasm in writing (questionable given the points above), be willing to do those things *with YOU* (obviously), for a fee (also fair), but now you’re upset that he’s actually enjoying any aspect of the encounter with you BECAUSE he is charging a fee for it. Am I missing something here?

Should he NOT be enjoying himself in any way for it be acceptable for him to charge? But at the same time it’s important to you that he is genuinely into what you are doing, so much so that you need to ensure all of this quite explicitly over messages or a call beforehand.

What I’m hearing is:

1) you are upset that he won’t do for FREE on an app exactly what YOU want with YOU specifically, on YOUR schedule. 

Ok, so people have agency. They meet people they want to meet to do things they want to do when they have time to do them. Maybe you do not fit the “who” or “what” criteria (or both) of the men you’re interested in on an app. Maybe the “when” criteria is also a barrier. Tough. They are not beholden to you in any way. C’est la vie.

Here is where money comes in. It provides an incentive for a gentleman to meet men he normally wouldn’t, or do things he normally wouldn’t (or both). Or perhaps also when it’s convenient for the client but not him.

2) you pay him to do the things you want and he ISN’T into the activities, or you, or both, so you are upset. I get it. You want aspects of the interaction to be genuine, to gratify you on some level. But he still performs the service for you. Do his time, services, and professionalism not have value?

3) you pay him to do the things you want and he IS into the activities, you, or both. You have everything you wanted, and yet still you are upset. Why?

Pick a lane.

In what paid scenario would you be happy?

[Archangel]

@Simon Suraci not reading all that. You went to a lot of effort to either change my mind or discredit me here among our peers. Or both. You may have succeeded in the latter (likely I’m not held in high esteem to begin with) but I remain unmoved in the former. Especially with your condescending tone. 

[NYXboy]

2 hours ago, Archangel said:

@Simon Suraci not reading all that. You went to a lot of effort to either change my mind or discredit me here among our peers. Or both. You may have succeeded in the latter (likely I’m not held in high esteem to begin with) but I remain unmoved in the former. Especially with your condescending tone. 

you definitely read it all. 

Edited May 2 by NYXboy

[Archangel]

3 hours ago, NYXboy said:

you definitely read it all. 

I did not in fact. I read til I realized it was condescending, skipped to the end, saw it was still condescending, and said not investing mental energy in parsing the middle. I read some; not all.

[Simon Suraci]

@Archangel your comments represent a frame of mind I believe many clients here struggle with but don’t always present so directly as you have here. I apologize for making it sound personal. I really have no beef with you personally. I’m trying to use this example (because it’s a good one!) as a way to talk about the issue, to get to the very bottom of why some clients feel very much the same way you do. Some are seldom happy with hiring for the reasons you present. I’m curious as to why, where the problems are, and want to identify some solutions as to how we can make the experience better.

If it’s a provider problem in your opinion, I want to learn how to improve. For instance, in your case, depending on what you have to say, I might consider a different approach to my text responses regarding activities and interests. Something more than “Yeah, I’m into that”. Maybe I would be more specific in parroting back exactly what a client asked for, to give him confidence that I actually read what he wrote and demonstrate in no uncertain terms that I am interested and committed to fulfilling it. Maybe that’s not what you mean, in which case I am interested in hearing what you do mean.

Or, perhaps demonstrate the level of enthusiasm the client is looking for to motivate him to book, but not so much enthusiasm that I put him off. That would help me and other providers reading this. You are one person, but I’m sure other clients here feel similarly. I want to understand what motivates you, and by extension others like you, so that I can be a better provider to prospective clients.

I’m also questioning whether it is a client problem. I’ve identified the paid option alternatives and why those are unattractive to you. Feel free to clarify anything I am misinterpreting about your feelings toward paid options. If those options are unacceptable (which is up to you, not me), I fear nothing will satisfy this kind of client you represent, apart from a free hookup with someone he’s interested in, catering 100% to his desires and convenience. In which case, I’m not sure there is anything I can do about it. I accept the unaddressable grievance for what it is and move on from attempting to appeal to this kind of client.

Since you most definitely *aren’t* reading this 😉, I pose these questions to clients who feel similarly to you.

Ok, fine. I’ll be the condescending ice queen with blue balls and wear that crown proudly. But I have a point of view and a willingness to question and engage. It’s not personal. I am curious. I enjoy learning things here. Challenging others to examine their thoughts and opinions forces me do the same for myself, and I enjoy it. Cheers to definitely *not* reading this 🥂. A few others will. 

[Archangel]

@Simon Suraci, I did read that 😂 I will reply more at length at a keyboard. I think in short it’s about a vibe. I can take screenshots and show what I mean by good and bad customer service.

But to put to rest one thing: I don’t expect to receive uncompensated service. That said, a provider, in my opinion, shouldn’t expect compensated administration. Booking is admin work. Compensation is for time spent together. 

Edited May 2 by Archangel
Added final sentence

[Archangel]

So…in order to reply to this, I had to go back to the post I didn’t read in its entirety and read it in its entirety 🤣 

✅ Task 1

Now…Task 2…

See below screenshots for context. This is an example of the type of poor interaction I’m referring to. This is not an uncommon kind of interaction. Feel free to point out what I’m doing wrong, if anything…

I think one of the core issues for many clients, myself included, is that while the experience is inherently transactional, it shouldn’t feel transactional. Of course, we all understand that there’s an exchange happening here, but it’s important that the interaction feels more than just business as usual. When a provider’s response is too flat, generic, or rushed, it can leave me feeling like I’m just a human ATM—or worse, not even seen as human at all.

What I’m really looking for, because this is an extended BFE, is a connection that goes beyond just the physical aspect—or at least feels like that. It’s about chemistry, ease, and shared presence. I want to feel that my provider is genuinely engaged, emotionally intelligent, and responsive to what I’m asking for—not just ticking off a checklist of purported services. When a provider shows enthusiasm and clarity, it makes me feel like I’m more than just a transaction to them. For example, when he acknowledges the emotional or relational tone of what I’m saying, it reassures me that he’s on the same page. Something like, “I hear what you’re looking for—and I love creating that kind of experience too” makes all the difference. It shows he understands that this isn’t just about meeting a physical need, but about creating a meaningful interaction.

Also, I want to know that he’s considering compatibility beyond the logistics of timing or rates. When he responds with something like, “I prefer to connect with people I feel a real vibe with, and from what you’ve shared, I think we could really click,” it lets me know he’s thinking about more than just the basics—it’s about the vibe, the connection, the chemistry. That’s what makes the experience more satisfying, and it lets me know he’s invested in the interaction, not just the transaction.

When it comes to pricing, I understand there are clear expectations, but I also appreciate when a provider takes the time to communicate that thoughtfully. A response like, “For longer engagements, I typically charge X, but I’d love to chat more about what you’re hoping for and see how we can make it work,” feels far better than a flat “4k.” It shows that they’re open to discussion and care about the experience rather than just locking things in without any engagement. It also opens the door for me to say, politely, I prefer not to haggle, which I do say if a provider has said he would negotiate  

Lastly, when a provider engages with my language and tone rather than shutting it down, it helps me feel seen and heard. “I really like how you’ve described what you’re looking for—it’s the kind of connection I try to create, too” goes a long way in showing they’re not just looking to complete a task but are interested in creating something meaningful.

I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to this: I know these interactions are transactional, but I want to walk away feeling like I was treated as a person, not a payment method—or simply an anal orifice for him to get his dick wet while getting paid. Thoughtful communication, emotional engagement, and a genuine desire to connect make all the difference in turning what could be a simple transaction into something truly satisfying.

Moderator Note: Screenshots removed as they violate community guidelines around sharing of personal information. 
 

OP Note: Screenshots readded with personal information redacted. 

Edited May 3 by Archangel
Readded screenshots

[Archangel]

55 minutes ago, GTMike said:

perhaps try and book them initially for an hour or two first and then once you know you have at least some sort of mutual connection discuss more of an extended period and then ease into the essence of the vibe you find most appealing?  Just a thought

I’m not flying someone in for an hour or two. As you said, a phone call is a good way of clearing up uncertainty if there is any before meeting up. But it was clear, to me, from the exchange that I posted, that it was never getting to that—let alone the weekend.

I’ve had great success. I don’t need to change my approach. I’m saying that some providers in fact suck at providing a holistic experience. And to the point of the OP, it’s perfectly legitimate to broach the topic of preferred activities when booking. Why in the hell wouldn’t it be?! 

[Danny-Darko]

On 4/29/2025 at 6:05 PM, BuffaloKyle said:

One thing I look out for on RM ads is to avoid providers that have nothing or conversely everything marked on the "intos" section.

Yes I agree, but many many will fill the whole thing with every possible "into" and really not be into some if any of the things I've found.

Edited May 2 by Danny-Darko

[Walt]

On 5/1/2025 at 8:53 AM, Archangel said:

I do. That’s what I said I do. But you have to engage a guy before you figure out he’s a flake.

Just like with physicians, dentists, attorneys, physical therapists, book store owners, bakeries....

[Walt]

2 hours ago, Archangel said:

I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to this: I know these interactions are transactional, but I want to walk away feeling like I was treated as a person, not a payment method

Of course! I again have to say: Just like with physicians, dentists, attorneys, physical therapists, book store owners, bakeries.... After an initial paid meeting, I do not re-engage or pay any professional who does not treat me respectfully and who does not treat me as a peer except for their specialized talents and skills.

[Danny-Darko]

On 4/29/2025 at 10:59 AM, Letmeworshipit said:

I notice that Kevin Slater is the moderator of this forum. I engaged Kevin several years ago for a session in NY I think (I was traveling a lot then, so may not be correct, but it was in a major city hotel I do recall). His ad description at the time made it clear that he would be a good match for my particular interests and that certainly proved to be the case. But now it seems things are more veiled and nuanced and it's really tough for guys like me, with a specific interest, to determine compatibility. And worse than that are providers who aren't always honest about their services and quickly say, "Oh, yea, I love that." Then in the session you find out that they they really aren't that into it and just didn't want to lose a paying gig. And the whole Top, Bottom, Versatile, et al, designations don't really identify their interest in non-penetrative activities, so it's a quandary.

True! MANY years ago while Kevin Slater was still in his prime, I hit him up once on RM and paid him a huge compliment for I was a huge fan of the very few porn videos he'd been in and was interested in hiring him. He saw the message and never answered, so I never hired him nor bothered again to follow his "career".  After living in the Castro in SF, where one sees "porn stars" every single day out and about, one realizes not all are approachable even for hire though they advertise for such. There are others and always new ones right behind those and always will be. Hiring is always a gamble. Don't let it eat you.  

Edited May 2 by Danny-Darko

[Archangel]

20 minutes ago, Walt said:

After an initial paid meeting

Are you saying you reserve judgement until after a monetary transaction? I feel like you can determine in many instances—as do providers vis-a-vis clients—if you’re likely to “click” with a guy. There are red flags—such as the loutish “U ready to book” within three texts…

[TyrEngineer]

8 minutes ago, Archangel said:

Are you saying you reserve judgement until after a monetary transaction? I feel like you can determine in many instances—as do providers vis-a-vis clients—if you’re likely to “click” with a guy. There are red flags—such as the loutish “U ready to book” within three texts…

Judging a book by its cover is one of those slippery slopes I keep hearing about. The purpose of the monetary transaction is to have all the necessary information to make a sound judgement. Red flags have their purpose because paying a bunch of people for poor performance isn't in anyone's best interest.

When it comes to dating apps I find it impossible to decide if we click without meeting people. The best indicator for personality I've found is getting a hold of their social media accounts, but this is not always possible.

I feel like this whole industry is a probability game, even if you find the perfect provider. Personally I think you shut down connections a little prematurely, but that's your perogative.

I don't have the funds to fly guys around so I don't actually understand where you are coming from. I could imagine it would open the door to finding the perfect provider, and maybe that golden spoon is what drives your actions.

[Walt]

18 minutes ago, Archangel said:

Are you saying you reserve judgement until after a monetary transaction? I feel like you can determine in many instances—as do providers vis-a-vis clients—if you’re likely to “click” with a guy. There are red flags—such as the loutish “U ready to book” within three texts…

No.

I -- like many commenting here -- feel that in the end the provider needs to be fun, respectful, and a potential peer. And like many here I try to make sure of that out before the first meeting, and I will not meet anyone without a brief phone call. If the provider won't talk on the phone, we will not meet. Sometimes even all of that doesn't effort work and does require meeting at least once (paid) before deciding to never meet again.

 

Edited May 2 by Walt
clarity

[Archangel]

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, @TyrEngineer, but if I’m not, then the client would be at a perpetual disadvantage economically because he’d be gambling by investing monetarily simply to determine if it’s a worthwhile investment—“pay to play.” Do I understand you correctly? I can see how that would be a crapshoot for a client, but how is it for a provider? A provider who is paid, irrespective of performance, wins, transactionally speaking. The point of vetting from a client’s perspective is precisely to avoid those providers who view the transaction solely, whether consciously or unconsciously, as a monetary endeavor with the potential to have a good time. Not all providers see it that way, and from my experience you can’t necessarily judge the book by its cover in those instances, but you definitely can make an informed guess if it’s good literature based off reading the prologue. 

[TyrEngineer]

5 minutes ago, Archangel said:

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, @TyrEngineer, but if I’m not, then the client would be at a perpetual disadvantage economically because he’d be gambling by investing monetarily simply to determine if it’s a worthwhile investment—“pay to play.” Do I understand you correctly? I can see how that would be a crapshoot for a client, but how is it for a provider? A provider who is paid, irrespective of performance, wins, transactionally speaking. The point of vetting from a client’s perspective is precisely to avoid those providers who view the transaction solely, whether consciously or unconsciously, as a monetary endeavor with the potential to have a good time. Not all providers see it that way, and from my experience you can’t necessarily judge the book by its cover in those instances, but you definitely can make an informed guess if it’s good literature based off reading the prologue. 

Yes the provider has a clear advantage when meeting new clients. It's much easier to hand someone cash then it is to make sure they leave happy, that's just a fact. I value effort, but I wouldn't expect them to put much effort into texting.

If I am unable to get reviews from members on this board then I expect a learning experience. Sadly you can't win them all, and I have passed on guys for ignoring my questions.

You are fishing for unicorns or something, and if that's the game you like to play then keep playing, but don't expect everyone to understand it.

[Archangel]

4 hours ago, TyrEngineer said:

You are fishing for unicorns or something, and if that's the game you like to play then keep playing, but don't expect everyone to understand it.

I found your post fine til this unnecessary dismissive zinger. For the record, it’s not at all impossible to find either; I’ve had good success with my approach finding and hiring guys that meet and exceed expectations through the whole experiencee. Maybe you haven’t had much luck because you think you fish for unicorns; unless you’re looking for a narwhal, unicorns are terrestrial fauna  🤓 

I believe if they are looking for “discerning” clients, providers should expect to put effort into all parts of the transaction. Of course if it’s a fuck and run situation, then expectations can be lower. But for extended BFEs, some level of expectation and compatibility is just perquisite. I don’t find that at all unreasonable; in fact, not having some level of expectation and compatibility for extended BFEs strikes me as foolhardy.

It’s not a unicorn, by the way. It’s a svelte rhino 😉 

Edited May 3 by Archangel

[Peter Eater]

Shouldn’t this whole conversation be in Questions About Hiring? 🙄

[Simon Suraci]

@Archangel Thank you so much for sharing thoughtful input. You bring up excellent points. I know I write a lot but sometimes it takes more than a zinger or a headline to get into the details and nuances of a topic. The screenshot example gives so much more relevant context, and your examples of better provider responses are great.

Noted, you are not expecting free escort services. Thanks for making that clear.

You are hiring for longer engagements, which is not the typical interaction for 1-2 hr appointments. I would expect more from a provider when discussing any kind of hire, but especially longer term engagements.

Phone calls I believe are necessary for longer term engagements. Both parties need to see if it will be a mutual fit, feel comfortable with one another, and get on the same page about expectations. Calls are efficient for short term hires too, but less critical because less is on the line. Longer hires are a higher risk for both parties. It’s best to schedule calls so you can have your provider’s full, undivided attention and privacy.

Flying in a provider for two hours makes little sense to the provider as he would spend half a day getting there and again half a day getting back… all for perhaps several hundred dollars. It’s cost inefficient for the client too because he is spending maybe as much if not more for the flights as he is for the provider’s fee. 

Also, the experience you’re looking for requires more time together than a few hours. You’re willing to spend a reasonable fee for what you want, so good on you. You have every right to expect clarity and communication from someone receiving a large sum of money for highly sensitive and intimate services.

Re: example screenshots

It’s disheartening to hear communication threads like this are so common. Your potential hire is a bonehead. He fails to see the opportunity you’re presenting him. Why spend days hustling multiple short term clients when you can invest your efforts in one client for a higher fee over the same period? Plus the potential for repeat business is quite attractive. It’s all flying right over his head.

1) Perfect intro. No notes.

2) He starts by quoting fees. Strange because he doesn’t even know what you want yet. How much time, effort, or special considerations to be able to quote anything. Also, unclear if the 2k is for an hour, a day, an overnight, or what. Maybe this is his minimum to meet? Unclear. He has made no attempt to listen to what you want before diving into money talk. Instead, he presumes to tell you what the two of you will be doing together.

3) Foodz. Maybe this was a typo with no correction. Maybe just a casual inflection. Either way, it’s sloppy. He could bother to use complete sentences to match your level of communication, tone, and approach. His approach demonstrates he doesn’t take you or his work seriously. He doesn’t know how long the hire is yet, so why is he assuming you are eating meals together? Unless it’s a dinner date type thing, but he doesn’t know anything yet about what you want.

4) You were very good to communicate what you want, asking about travel concerns, and giving a fairly detailed but succinct overview of the types of services you would like to hire. You specify amount of time in terms of days and nights, which helps a lot. You give a sense of yourself and what you want in a provider. Good on you!

5) The provider makes no effort to match your tone, and still fails to use complete sentences. What he’s talking about in short form has nothing to do with what you just mentioned, and it’s still all about compensation. He barely acknowledges what you want at all, and asks no questions. Maybe he didn’t read your message at all?

6) You were generous to clarify the length of the hire you want after the nonsense response.

7) The provider still fails to acknowledge anything you want, or ask questions. He is still making the conversation all about compensation, this time in one word responses, using abbreviations, at that. It’s really selfish, like he is only concerned with what you can do for him, not at all what he can do for you to earn his compensation. Then he wants to pressure you into sealing a deal by setting a time. I’m flabbergasted and embarrassed for this guy. He doesn’t get it at all.

I completely understand why you are upset at text exchanges like this. He is treating you like a paycheck, not a human being. It’s unprofessional, simply unacceptable. This provider is selfish, self-centered, impatient, and entitled. Maybe some of these guys feel this minimal level of effort and attention is all they need to give because of the way they look. Can you imagine how awful he would be in person? He would barely give you the time of day, not be interested in pleasing you or making any effort to earn his fee. I’m sorry this exchange is characteristic of many other provider interactions. You should expect better. I get it now.

A lot of these guys advertising are ill suited to the work. It takes more than looking a certain way to succeed in this business. It takes empathy, compassion, respect, and a genuine care for humanity. We meet real human needs. It takes a special level of care to meet those needs. So much money is on the table because the services of a good, experienced, professional provider well suited to the work are indeed high value. Unfortunately a lot of guys think they can bypass all these prerequisites and say “but I’m pretty…” and charge the same fee.

It’s difficult to find providers with the right temperament, mindset, intellect, emotional intelligence, and genuine good motivations for doing the work. Yes, it’s a living, but for a good provider, it’s more than that. He finds fulfillment in meeting real human needs. Good providers are unicorns indeed 🦄. Or svelte rhinos 🦏. Or in my case, maybe a beached narwhal 🐳.

You hit the nail on the head by describing a meaningful interaction. We are here to make a real human to human connection. That’s what we are truly going for, at least for the unicorns standing in stark relief against a stampede of hornless pretty horses. Among them: inexperienced twinks I’ll call “my little ponies”.

You definitely want the unicorns. Don’t settle for less. The unicorns are worth the cost, but it takes some work to track them down and verify they actually are the real deal.

Thanks again for breaking down your thoughts and elaborating. I think we got to what the real issues are here. Your perspective certainly helps me.

[MscleLovr]

Dear Lord, this thread deserves some sort of award. When did setting up a date become so complicated?

Some of the replies here have been worthy, some not so much.

And some responses are so lengthy - rather like lawyers’ letters - that their paragraphs deserve to be numbered 😎

[Archangel]

On 5/4/2025 at 3:04 AM, MscleLovr said:

Dear Lord, this thread deserves some sort of award. When did setting up a date become so complicated?

Some of the replies here have been worthy, some not so much.

And some responses are so lengthy - rather like lawyers’ letters - that their paragraphs deserve to be numbered 😎

Just providing lots of primary source material for that PhD who will do their dissertation on the escorting industry 🤣 

[Simon Suraci]

3 minutes ago, Archangel said:

Just providing lots of primary source material for that PhD who will do their dissertation on the escorting industry 🤣 

I know you’re kidding, but this is a real thing. For the more bookish providers, and those who love them:

History and Economics of Male Sex Work

[Archangel]

8 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

I know you’re kidding, but this is a real thing. For the more bookish providers, and those who love them:

History and Economics of Male Sex Work

Look at that. Nothing new under the sun! 

[+ nycman]

Jesus men, I’ve read shorter PhD dissertations.

"I’m a top who likes to fuck".

The rest we can figure out when we meet.