Hiring in Middle East?

[Frenchjuris]

I’m curious about hiring in the Middle East…whether the country is more relaxed (UAE), strict (Saudi), stricter (Egypt), and stricter (Iran) as examples. I ask because when I was in Egypt Grindr had a warning about fake profiles being cops. I wonder if RM has these? Then Dubai has tons of beautiful men to hire on RM…are they all real? And I’m really surprised to see them in Saudi Arabia —- I know thru are trying to get more tourists and maybe gay dollars, but this seems a bit scary to me. Anyone have experiences in these places either way? 

[BuffaloKyle]

I'd be scared to death for someone to even know I was gay over there let alone try to hire a provider. Yikes!

[56harrisond]

Previous discussions:

 

[liubit]

Recently, a gay Anglo-Mexican living  in Qatar (an airline pilot I think) was entrapped by police posing as a Grindr hookup, and imprisoned awaiting trial. To make things worse, he was HIV positive, and it took the intervention of both the British and the Mexican governments to grant him access to his medication and finally to get him released and deported. Yes, being overtly gay in the Middle East can be a dangerous proposition. 

[ICTJOCK]

As a provider,   being hired in the middle east might be interesting,  but the reality is,  not worth the risk.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

I'm always stunned by gays who are traveling to Dubai and such. First of all, I won't go to Florida or Texas because I'm not giving those states my money, nor do I feel safe as a visibly queer person in either one. The idea of having my money support autocratic religious regimes that violently oppress women and queers, enslave refugees and - as with all elites - are vile hypocrites is completely disgusting to me. I once had a massage from a guy who had grown up in Saudi Arabia. He said all the wealthy guys have orgies, including with teenage boys and young men, but these same people will have openly gay people executed. So fuck them. 

[ShortCutie7]

4 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I'm always stunned by gays who are traveling to Dubai and such. First of all, I won't go to Florida or Texas because I'm not giving those states my money, nor do I feel safe as a visibly queer person in either one. The idea of having my money support autocratic religious regimes that violently oppress women and queers, enslave refugees and - as with all elites - are vile hypocrites is completely disgusting to me. I once had a massage from a guy who had grown up in Saudi Arabia. He said all the wealthy guys have orgies, including with teenage boys and young men, but these same people will have openly gay people executed. So fuck them. 

Exactly, I don’t understand why a gay person would want to travel to the Middle East in the first place… so much potential for danger (both related and not related to sexuality), and with thousands of other destinations in the world that are just as interesting and a lot safer, why bother?  I chose not to go to Israel when I could have gone for free!

That said, if for whatever reason you find yourself in Dubai and want to hire someone, I think the safest bet would be to find an established escort (ie someone with reviews here and on RM) who is based elsewhere/also traveling.

[Vin Marco]

You can't imagine the amount of messages I get on RM and when RB was still in business about people wanting to fly me to a multitude of Middle Eastern countries.... I've heard it ALL, attempts to entice me with "money is no object" first class travel, gifts, blah blah blah etc etc etc but for me,  yes the danger of it all is something to think about ( all it takes is to piss off someone powerful enough that doesn't get what he truly wants and it's possibly game over for me 💀..... literally ) 

As much as the danger element looms over me, it's equally about principle. I have zero interest in visiting places where homosexuality can be punished by death or where women are treated as second class citizens. For those reasons those types of places are just "not for me" 

I do however remind those inquiring folks who claim money is no object that I'd be happy to see them at places like the Peninsula in Beverly Hills or other like hotels but they would have to come to me and I'd be more than happy to meet them there 🙂 Money and time not being an object right?  😉

Edited December 25, 2024 by Vin Marco

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

Just to be clear, the "Middle East" in this case, does not include Israel.

Israel, the only democracy in the area, is an oasis for gays. It is surrounded by undemocratic Islamic regimes where homosexuality is not only banned, but in many cases criminalized.

Tel Aviv is one of the biggest LGBT friendly cities in the world. Big pride events, big gay bar scene. And the gay bars cater to all.
Every June, Tel Aviv has the largest Gay Pride parade in Asia.

The government is on the cusp of approval of a law to give the same sex partners of soldiers the same benefits as a husband or wife as widowers. This is being promoted by the speaker of the Knesset, Amir Ohana, who is openly gay. Gay Muslims come from the Palestinian territories to Israel to escape persecution and enjoy the freedoms that Israel offers to gays.

 

Like everywhere, there are homophobes, specifically in Israel they tend to be the Muslims and the ultra-Orthodox Jews, However, most of the population, especially in Tel Aviv and Haifa, are very supportive.

And to the OP's point, Bozo has hired many, many times in Israel, and never had a problem.

BTC

[Vin Marco]

6 minutes ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Just to be clear, the "Middle East" in this case, does not include Israel.

Israel, the only democracy in the area, is an oasis for gays. It is surrounded by undemocratic Islamic regimes where homosexuality is not only banned, but in many cases criminalized.

Tel Aviv is one of the biggest LGBT friendly cities in the world. Big pride events, big gay bar scene. And the gay bars cater to all.
Every June, Tel Aviv has the largest Gay Pride parade in Asia.

The government is on the cusp of approval of a law to give the same sex partners of soldiers the same benefits as a husband or wife as widowers. This is being promoted by the speaker of the Knesset, Amir Ohana, who is openly gay. Gay Muslims come from the Palestinian territories to Israel to escape persecution and enjoy the freedoms that Israel offers to gays.

 

Like everywhere, there are homophobes, specifically in Israel they tend to be the Muslims and the ultra-Orthodox Jews, However, most of the population, especially in Tel Aviv and Haifa, are very supportive.

And to the OP's point, Bozo has hired many, many times in Israel, and never had a problem.

BTC

You are correct. My apologies, I should've been more specific with the  countries that I get most inquiries from. 

[SirBillybob]

The republic Cyprus the other exception geographically, where Nico can marry the gender-neutral Siya. 

Edited December 25, 2024 by SirBillybob

[ShortCutie7]

55 minutes ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Just to be clear, the "Middle East" in this case, does not include Israel.

Israel, the only democracy in the area, is an oasis for gays. It is surrounded by undemocratic Islamic regimes where homosexuality is not only banned, but in many cases criminalized.

Tel Aviv is one of the biggest LGBT friendly cities in the world. Big pride events, big gay bar scene. And the gay bars cater to all.
Every June, Tel Aviv has the largest Gay Pride parade in Asia.

The government is on the cusp of approval of a law to give the same sex partners of soldiers the same benefits as a husband or wife as widowers. This is being promoted by the speaker of the Knesset, Amir Ohana, who is openly gay. Gay Muslims come from the Palestinian territories to Israel to escape persecution and enjoy the freedoms that Israel offers to gays.

 

Like everywhere, there are homophobes, specifically in Israel they tend to be the Muslims and the ultra-Orthodox Jews, However, most of the population, especially in Tel Aviv and Haifa, are very supportive.

And to the OP's point, Bozo has hired many, many times in Israel, and never had a problem.

BTC

Absolutely!  I just meant that I didn’t go on Birth Right because it didn’t feel like a safe place to be at the time in general.

Edited December 25, 2024 by ShortCutie7

[Whippoorwill]

Yes I have had experience.

I lived and worked in Iran for two years (under the Shah, ancient history, not under the latest repressive Islamic Republic) and have had extensive business travel in the UAE. First thing is, don't confuse the people with their unelected governments. Most people in these countries don't pay any more attention to their governments than we do when it comes to sex. Most people don't pay any more attention to their clerics than we do when it comes to sex. The other thing is the old saying, "when something is prohibited absolutely, it is allowed absolutely." If the powers that be do not admit it exists, there aren't any rules against it. For example, in places like the US where you can buy alcohol, it is regulated as to age of buyer, hours of operation, content of the product, etc. Where there is a prohibition against alcohol, there are no rules regulating its manufacture or dispensing...it's open season for anything you want under the table. The same with sex. Sure, every once in a while there is a political campaign against "vice", but that happens here too. And yes, the advertised penalties are worse, although exceedingly rare. 

In Islamic countries, traditionally males and females were/are kept separate. What does this mean for teenage and older unmarried males?...they are having sex with each other, and lots of it. As soon as I stepped off the plane in Tehran, guys were approaching me. As one said to me, "we knew you were queer, all Englishmen are queer." The "Ti Hi" Lawrence stereotype. The teenage boy across the street from me had an open lover, and there were frequent roving orgies (not so hard to stage when the men are with the men and the women with the women anyway). There is also a thousands of year tradition of workers and their "apprentices." The bathhouses (a weekly ritual) are wild. Fathers typically took/take their teenage sons to protect them...everybody knows what's going on, but no one talks about it. Most of this is situational homosexuality, and most eventually are married to women...but not all. There are "known homosexuals", crossdressers, etc. but no open displays of affection. No gay pride parades for sure. 

Now clearly the Islamic Republic of Iran has tried to tamp this down, but you don't change human nature. Girls are not available to unmarried guys, so what's a guy to do? Other guys. You just have to be careful about being obvious (we've all been careful here too) and think with the head between your ears, not the one between your legs. Advertised penalties are severe, but exceedingly rare. 

Dubai today is a hotbed of gay sex. One of the busiest airports in the world, flight attendants galore, hotel workers galore, tens of thousands of Filipino and Pakistani guest workers (all single men), a steady stream of male business travelers and consultants, lots of money, and lots of horny underemployed Emirati men. And so handsome. The last time I checked into a large western hotel (2019), before I knew it, the desk clerk was knocking on my door "just to check on me." We checked out a lot of things. There are plenty of western escorts visiting Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, etc. They meet the same way I used to meet tricks when I was doing jobs in backwater cities in the US...go to the best bar in the best hotel in town, and there will be a lot of good looking single guys. 

If you don't want to spend your money in these countries, that is a fine principled position. No argument there. None of these places are that enticing of destinations for discretionary travel, but if you find yourself there, there are plenty of opportunities. You just have to be discrete in public...the same way we were here fifty years ago. And the same way you don't want to be flounting laws in any foreign country, autocracy or democracy. The potential penalties are just worse. But don't believe everything you read in the popular press. There has been extensive discussion of this subject on C.O.M. in the past...perhaps under The Travel Desk? Lots of divergent opinions. There are also a number of gay travelogues online that have visited these countries. 

And yes, Tel Aviv is a party destination for gays from all over Europe and the Middle East. 

[Whippoorwill]

Here we are...from a prior C.O.M. thread...

 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

54 minutes ago, Whippoorwill said:

Yes I have had experience.

I lived and worked in Iran for two years (under the Shah, ancient history, not under the latest repressive Islamic Republic) and have had extensive business travel in the UAE. First thing is, don't confuse the people with their unelected governments. Most people in these countries don't pay any more attention to their governments than we do when it comes to sex. Most people don't pay any more attention to their clerics than we do when it comes to sex. The other thing is the old saying, "when something is prohibited absolutely, it is allowed absolutely." If the powers that be do not admit it exists, there aren't any rules against it. For example, in places like the US where you can buy alcohol, it is regulated as to age of buyer, hours of operation, content of the product, etc. Where there is a prohibition against alcohol, there are no rules regulating its manufacture or dispensing...it's open season for anything you want under the table. The same with sex. Sure, every once in a while there is a political campaign against "vice", but that happens here too. And yes, the advertised penalties are worse, although exceedingly rare. 

In Islamic countries, traditionally males and females were/are kept separate. What does this mean for teenage and older unmarried males?...they are having sex with each other, and lots of it. As soon as I stepped off the plane in Tehran, guys were approaching me. As one said to me, "we knew you were queer, all Englishmen are queer." The "Ti Hi" Lawrence stereotype. The teenage boy across the street from me had an open lover, and there were frequent roving orgies (not so hard to stage when the men are with the men and the women with the women anyway). There is also a thousands of year tradition of workers and their "apprentices." The bathhouses (a weekly ritual) are wild. Fathers typically took/take their teenage sons to protect them...everybody knows what's going on, but no one talks about it. Most of this is situational homosexuality, and most eventually are married to women...but not all. There are "known homosexuals", crossdressers, etc. but no open displays of affection. No gay pride parades for sure. 

Now clearly the Islamic Republic of Iran has tried to tamp this down, but you don't change human nature. Girls are not available to unmarried guys, so what's a guy to do? Other guys. You just have to be careful about being obvious (we've all been careful here too) and think with the head between your ears, not the one between your legs. Advertised penalties are severe, but exceedingly rare. 

Dubai today is a hotbed of gay sex. One of the busiest airports in the world, flight attendants galore, hotel workers galore, tens of thousands of Filipino and Pakistani guest workers (all single men), a steady stream of male business travelers and consultants, lots of money, and lots of horny underemployed Emirati men. And so handsome. The last time I checked into a large western hotel (2019), before I knew it, the desk clerk was knocking on my door "just to check on me." We checked out a lot of things. There are plenty of western escorts visiting Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, etc. They meet the same way I used to meet tricks when I was doing jobs in backwater cities in the US...go to the best bar in the best hotel in town, and there will be a lot of good looking single guys. 

If you don't want to spend your money in these countries, that is a fine principled position. No argument there. None of these places are that enticing of destinations for discretionary travel, but if you find yourself there, there are plenty of opportunities. You just have to be discrete in public...the same way we were here fifty years ago. And the same way you don't want to be flounting laws in any foreign country, autocracy or democracy. The potential penalties are just worse. But don't believe everything you read in the popular press. There has been extensive discussion of this subject on C.O.M. in the past...perhaps under The Travel Desk? Lots of divergent opinions. There are also a number of gay travelogues online that have visited these countries. 

And yes, Tel Aviv is a party destination for gays from all over Europe and the Middle East. 

This is the only boots-on-the-ground, correct reply here.

The Middle East can be fascinating and a lot of fun if you're smart, savvy and alert.

I have zero understanding of people who have never been somewhere but are convinced they shouldn't go based on hearsay.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

I was in Egypt earlier this year on a cruise ship that was chartered by 1,000 all gay men.  We traveled 3 hours by charter bus from Alexandria to Cairo.  The pyramids in Cairo were a site to behold.  We were advised not to turn on Grindr, so I never did. 

22 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

...nor do I feel safe as a visibly queer person...

I have a tough time understanding what makes a man "visibly queer".  Perhaps walking down the sidewalk with a dick in your mouth? 🤔 

Not every place can be as perfect as the good old US of A or other English-speaking countries.  I wouldn't want to live in Egypt, but I'm very glad I went earlier this year.

Edited December 26, 2024 by Vegas_Millennial

[+ KensingtonHomo]

9 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I have a tough time understanding what makes a man "visibly queer".

No you don't. You know exactly what i'm talking about. 

If you need help identifying us, we're the ones who do 90% of the work to secure our rights, while guys who pass criticize us from the sidelines. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

3 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

KensingtonHomo said:

...nor do I feel safe as a visibly queer person...

 

3 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

If you need help identifying us, we're the ones who do 90% of the work to secure our rights, while guys who pass criticize us from the sidelines. 

Ah, I see.  Then no need to worry about visiting Egypt.  You might be recognizable as a crusade fighter at home, but no one on the streets of Egypt will recognize you.

Advice for men reading this thread considering a holiday in the Middle East:  just as people complain about "those obnoxious Americans" wearing T shirts from their home town, there's no need to wear a Rainbow flag everywhere you go.  It's okay to try a different wardrobe to look and act appropriate to the situation, especially on foreign travel.  Leave your crusade at home while on holiday abroad... It'll still be there when you get back. 

I had a lovely time in Cairo on a tour bus full of gay men.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

4 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Advice for men reading this thread considering a holiday in the Middle East:  just as people complain about "those obnoxious Americans" wearing T shirts from their home town, there's no need to wear a Rainbow flag everywhere you go.  It's okay to try a different wardrobe to look and act appropriate to the situation, especially on foreign travel.  Leave your crusade at home while on holiday abroad... It'll still be there when you get back. 

I would agree with this sentiment.  When in Rome, as it goes.

As a traveler, you cannot always expect the world to cater to you.  It's that lost in translation quirkiness that can create some of the best memories...  If you give it the chance.

Always remember, there's more to life than the comfortable little bubble you've created for yourself.

 

 

[pubic_assistance]

8 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Advice for men reading this thread considering a holiday in the Middle East:  just as people complain about "those obnoxious Americans" wearing T shirts from their home town, there's no need to wear a Rainbow flag everywhere you go.  It's okay to try a different wardrobe to look and act appropriate to the situation, especially on foreign travel.  Leave your crusade at home while on holiday abroad

[ShortCutie7]

21 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

This is the only boots-on-the-ground, correct reply here.

The Middle East can be fascinating and a lot of fun if you're smart, savvy and alert.

I have zero understanding of people who have never been somewhere but are convinced they shouldn't go based on hearsay.

I see where you’re coming from, but I wouldn’t consider a basic knowledge of the news and political/religious climate to be “hearsay”.  I’m genuinely happy for you and for others on this thread who have had positive experiences traveling to the Middle East, but that doesn’t mean that those of us who would feel unsafe there have invalid reasons.

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, ShortCutie7 said:

I’m genuinely happy for you and for others on this thread who have had positive experiences traveling to the Middle East, but that doesn’t mean that those of us who would feel unsafe there have invalid reasons.

I'm genuinely confused.

Unless they're wearing a rainbow 🌈 tshirt or heels and a dress ..why did you feel that gay people can't figure out how to blend in ? I think this is more of a case of being too entitled to bother trying. I've traveled in several Muslim countries and I always spend a little time learning the customs and expectations of what's considered appropriate behavior by tourists.

Never occurred to me that someone could possibly know I liked to suck dick.

[ShortCutie7]

Just now, pubic_assistance said:

I'm genuinely confused.

Unless they're wearing a rainbow 🌈 tshirt or heels and a dress ..why did you feel that gay people can't figure out how to blend in ? I think this is more of a case of being too entitled to bother trying. I've traveled in several Muslim countries and I always spend a little time learning the customs and expectations of what's considered appropriate behavior by tourists.

Never occurred to me that someone could possibly know I liked to suck dick.

 I never implied that gay people couldn’t figure out how to blend in; that was someone else in the thread.  I have spent my entire life blending in lol.  I was just saying that with the danger of getting caught and generally being in a war zone, why would a gay person choose to travel to the Middle East when there are so many other options?

[Marc in Calif]

4 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Why did you feel that gay people can't figure out how to blend in ? I think this is more of a case of being too entitled to bother trying.

Yes, they feel entitled to share fears that they're rather pleased to harbor. Such people are proud to flaunt their disdain for -- and fear of -- "the other" despite having no first-hand experience.

I think they enjoy being prejudiced against what they perceive as foreign to their privileged lives.

[Marc in Calif]

5 minutes ago, ShortCutie7 said:

 ... the danger of getting caught and generally being in a war zone... 

What specific "war zones" are you talking about in Egyptian cities or in Dubai?

Or do you feel that the huge Middle East region as a whole is likely to blow up at any minute?