United Healthcare CEO killed

[+ José Soplanucas]

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

 

[dutchal]

The New York Times has put together an interesting story about Mangione's several months before the shooting, with a lot of information I've seen nowhere else:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/luigi-mangione-gunman-united-healthcare-shooting.html

[+ DrownedBoy]

19 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Most problems associated with healthcare would be solved if we were more responsible about what we eat and our lifestyle, obesity is our biggest problem. 

Translation: let the people eat cake.....er, I mean kale.

Increased preventative care is indeed a great idea, and will save health care costs (and health). It's also something lots of insurance companies won't cover. Not everyone has money for vegan diets, gym memberships, etc.

[+ José Soplanucas]

2 hours ago, dutchal said:

The New York Times has put together an interesting story about Mangione's several months before the shooting, with a lot of information I've seen nowhere else:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/luigi-mangione-gunman-united-healthcare-shooting.html

There is a paywall. Would you copy and paste, please?

[marylander1940]

27 minutes ago, DrownedBoy said:

Translation: let the people eat cake.....er, I mean kale.

Increased preventative care is indeed a great idea, and will save health care costs (and health). It's also something lots of insurance companies won't cover. Not everyone has money for vegan diets, gym memberships, etc.

Vegan diets? Let's just eat healthier, more vegetables and unfried meat. 

Gym memberships go for all prices, what about just walking more on the sidewalk and maybe some running in the Summer?

Again:

 

I do agree with you that we need more preventative care. Children don't turn obese and diabetics out of the blue

Edited December 13, 2024 by marylander1940

[caliguy]

In light of the Murder of the Healthcare CEO Michael Moore is giving away free copies of the movie Sicko.

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

[caliguy]

29 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

[dutchal]

1 hour ago, José Soplanucas said:

There is a paywall. Would you copy and paste, please?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/luigi-mangione-gunman-united-healthcare-shooting.html?unlocked_article_code=1.hE4.aFg4.H7HhfZa6NuIX&smid=url-share

That should be free of the paywall.

[+ sync]

It gets wider, deeper (and sadder).  I saw/heard a TV report this morning that noted Luigi Mangione was not a member of United HealthCare.

Some human behavior specialists believe the back injury that plagues him with constant pain and mobility issues overtook his mental faculties.  

[Vin Marco]

When people are publicly  cheering a crazy man who murdered a stranger from behind on a sidewalk because he doesn’t think the system is fair … there is something broken in that society.
“Hang Mike Pence” is part of the same problem 😏

We lost our sense of proportion and relativity. Our horrible excuse for a health care system and the capitalist greed are still not a license to commit murder.
 

Edited December 14, 2024 by Vin Marco

[+ sync]

8 minutes ago, Vin Marco said:

When people are publicly  cheering a crazy man who murdered a stranger from behind on a sidewalk because he doesn’t think the system is fair … there is something broken in that society.
“Hang Mike Pence” is part of the same problem 😏

We lost our sense of proportion and relativity. Our horrible excuse for a health care system and the capitalist greed are still not a license to commit murder.
 

I agree, it seems to me that an airborne infection of insanity is sweeping across our society.  If it's not confined to America, I ponder for how much longer humanity will be the dominate species. 

[marylander1940]

On 12/13/2024 at 11:14 AM, caliguy said:

In light of the Murder of the Healthcare CEO Michael Moore is giving away free copies of the movie Sicko.

 

I watched yesterday!

Thank you for mentioning it! Very interesting!

[marylander1940]

6 hours ago, Vin Marco said:

When people are publicly  cheering a crazy man who murdered a stranger from behind on a sidewalk because he doesn’t think the system is fair … there is something broken in that society.
“Hang Mike Pence” is part of the same problem 😏

We lost our sense of proportion and relativity. Our horrible excuse for a health care system and the capitalist greed are still not a license to commit murder.
 

Not only that but in THIS murder not even one flower or candle was placed in the place where a father of 2 was shot in the back and unfortunately, some are celebrating the murderer as a hero!

 

Most crime scenes usually look like this:

 

Edited December 14, 2024 by marylander1940

[Vin Marco]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

Not only that but in THIS murder not even one flower or candle was placed in the place where a father of 2 was shot in the back and unfortunately, some are celebrating the murderer as a hero!

 

Most crime scenes usually look like this:

 

 

[Luv2play]

I think of Mme. DeFarge in the Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens. She and her cronies would sit at the guillotine each day as the heads of the aristocrats were being lopped off, sitting and knitting to pass the time. They would give up a cheer as each perceived oppressor of the common people was dispatched without mercy.
It was a revolution after all. Dickens knew something about human nature. And portrayed it in unforgettable ways. I read that book over 60 years ago.

[Simon Suraci]

For those of you interested in the convoluted and frustrating world of US health insurance, why it costs so much, and what we can do about it, here is a podcast I’ve been following for years. It offers a lot of helpful and interesting content:

Home - An Arm And a Leg

ARMANDALEGSHOW.COM

 

[+ augustus]

18 hours ago, Vin Marco said:

Our horrible excuse for a health care system and the capitalist greed are still not a license to commit murder.

You must not get around much.   Even with its shortcomings, the US healthcare system is the most advanced in the world.  When people like you figure out how to supply the gold standard of healthcare at an inexpensive cost, then all the problems will be solved.  People like you and the other complainers here presume to know the answer, without having a clue as to how things work.

[+ augustus]

You don't become angry enough to kill someone unless you have been marinated in this idea of victimhood. Mangione somehow had a back injury so it was the fault of the health care system that he wasn't immediately cured of all pain and disability. He's delusional, but sane.  A stone cold killer revered by some here for his ideologies, good looks and physique. Our society is adrift in a sea of madness without a rudder. 

[+ ApexNomad]

2 hours ago, augustus said:

You must not get around much.   Even with its shortcomings, the US healthcare system is the most advanced in the world.  When people like you figure out how to supply the gold standard of healthcare at an inexpensive cost, then all the problems will be solved.  People like you and the other complainers here presume to know the answer, without having a clue as to how things work.

It’s true that healthcare is complex, and solutions are not simple. However, the frustration many feel isn’t born from ignorance—it’s a response to the real, visible inequities in the system. While the U.S. leads in innovation, it consistently ranks poorly in areas like affordability and access compared to other developed nations. Many Americans are left with crushing medical debt or go without necessary care. A major reason for this is that the majority of healthcare services in the U.S. are delivered by private entities that aim to generate profit. This profit-driven model leads to higher costs for patients, limited access to care, and a focus on treatments rather than prevention, further contributing to disparities in outcomes.

The need for reform is not a lack of understanding, but a recognition of these systemic flaws and the possibility of a better approach.

[+ José Soplanucas]

6 minutes ago, ApexNomad said:

It’s true that healthcare is complex, and solutions are not simple. However, the frustration many feel isn’t born from ignorance—it’s a response to the real, visible inequities in the system. While the U.S. leads in innovation, it consistently ranks poorly in areas like affordability and access compared to other developed nations. Many Americans are left with crushing medical debt or go without necessary care. A major reason for this is that the majority of healthcare services in the U.S. are delivered by private entities that aim to generate profit. This profit-driven model leads to higher costs for patients, limited access to care, and a focus on treatments rather than prevention, further contributing to disparities in outcomes.

The need for reform is not a lack of understanding, but a recognition of these systemic flaws and the possibility of a better approach.

The problem is that these systemic flaws transcend the US health care system. I agree with the friends sounding the alarm of disintegration and anomia.

[+ ApexNomad]

2 hours ago, augustus said:

You don't become angry enough to kill someone unless you have been marinated in this idea of victimhood. Mangione somehow had a back injury so it was the fault of the health care system that he wasn't immediately cured of all pain and disability. He's delusional, but sane.  A stone cold killer revered by some here for his ideologies, good looks and physique. Our society is adrift in a sea of madness without a rudder. 

You’re absolutely right—it’s deeply disturbing that people are celebrating such a heinous act. Regardless of frustrations with the healthcare system, violence is never the answer, and cheering for the murder of a CEO—no matter how flawed the company they represent—is morally indefensible. Supporting the alleged shooter or sending him money not only glorifies violence but also sets a dangerous precedent, undermining both the rule of law and any legitimate critique of systemic issues by associating them with extremism.

At the same time, dismissing this entirely as victimhood or madness risks oversimplifying the deeper issues at play. While the alleged shooter’s actions are reprehensible, they stem from a broader context of frustration with systems that many feel are broken and unresponsive. Recognizing these issues is essential to preventing similar tragedies, but it must happen without romanticizing or condoning violence. Calling for reform is not an empty statement—it’s a commitment to addressing systemic problems through peaceful, democratic processes rather than succumbing to despair or extremism.

What we are witnessing is a real-time example of how the wealthy can leverage their resources for superior legal defense, further exacerbating existing disparities in the legal system. The alleged shooter’s wealthy family has hired a former ADA, one of the best criminal defense attorneys, to represent him. This highlights how access to resources can significantly impact legal outcomes. In many ways, the alleged shooter is doing exactly what the CEO he killed did before him—cheating the system or, in the latter case, profiting from misery. It’s a troubling irony that those with wealth and influence can bend the rules in their favor, even in the face of something as severe as murder. While some may feel the CEO, who profited off others’ suffering, brought this tragedy upon himself, such frustration with systemic inequality does not justify violence. As philosopher John Rawls argues, “Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought.” Rawls’ philosophy stresses that justice must always be the cornerstone of our institutions, ensuring they are set up to benefit everyone—especially the least advantaged—regardless of wealth or influence. 

[+ ApexNomad]

15 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

The problem is that these systemic flaws transcend the US health care system. I agree with the friends sounding the alarm of disintegration and anomia.

You’re right, these issues aren’t unique to healthcare, but are part of broader systemic problems that span multiple areas of society.

[Vin Marco]

2 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

It’s true that healthcare is complex, and solutions are not simple. However, the frustration many feel isn’t born from ignorance—it’s a response to the real, visible inequities in the system. While the U.S. leads in innovation, it consistently ranks poorly in areas like affordability and access compared to other developed nations. Many Americans are left with crushing medical debt or go without necessary care. A major reason for this is that the majority of healthcare services in the U.S. are delivered by private entities that aim to generate profit. This profit-driven model leads to higher costs for patients, limited access to care, and a focus on treatments rather than prevention, further contributing to disparities in outcomes.

The need for reform is not a lack of understanding, but a recognition of these systemic flaws and the possibility of a better approach.

You said that beautifully @ApexNomad  👏🏽 I agree 💯 with you! 

But for some.....