Would you go bare? (living without insurance).

[marylander1940]

It's an expression used for folks who don't have home insurance and Doctors who don't have insurance for malpractice lawsuits, etc.  I'm sure sooner or later will be used by other professionals as a way to save money. Insurance rates have gone up more than 4 times the yearly inflation. Unless mortgage lenders start requiring insurance the 125 of homeowners who don't have it will keep increasing therefore raising the premiums paid by others who have it. 

 

 

Going Bare

LUBELLROSEN.COM

The Risky Economics of ‘Going Bare’ Without Homeowners Insurance

WWW.INSURANCEJOURNAL.COM

---

Owning a home can feel like risky business, from coming up with the mortgage payment every month to worrying about disasters like fires or floods or

 

Edited August 17, 2024 by marylander1940

[+ poolboy48220]

When laid off for six months 15 years ago, I went without health insurance until I found a new job.  I don't think I'd do that now.

[+ Charlie]

I wouldn't go without earthquake insurance, since the San Andreas fault is almost in my backyard. I have always had auto insurance, and after driving for 64 years, I was involved in the first auto accident of my life this week; however, the other driver admitted to her insurance company that she was at fault, and they emailed me yesterday that they have accepted the claim, so I hope I won't have to use my insurance.

[+ PhileasFogg]

I have a family member in a coastal area that refers to it as “self insuring”.  
 

I remind her that unless she has cash in the bank to cover the loss, it’s called “taking the risk”

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

I won't buy life insurance or long term care insurance for my life circumstances.  My inflation-adjusted pension, or my Roth IRA assets, are each more than enough to fund even the highest cost assisted living facility on the market today.  The money saved on premiums is funneled into more Roth investments.  With several decades to grow, the insurance products just can't beat my investments.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Vegas_Millennial

[marylander1940]

39 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I won't buy life insurance or long term care insurance.  I chose instead to self-fund any assisted care and end of life arrangements.

You can always sell your life insurance later in life. 

[Johnrom]

Long term care insurance is good if you have many assets  and you use it as a hedge against your estate not being depleted later in life.  Nursing homes are expensive and a few years there can extremely costly. But you must do your research 🧐 and get a good deal.  

[+ PhileasFogg]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I won't buy life insurance or long term care insurance.  I chose instead to self-fund any assisted care and end of life arrangements.

I have no need for life insurance either.  But it makes sense for a business owner whose death may trigger a sale of the family’s business to pay the taxes.

I think long term care insurance is a good idea for spouses where depleted assets could impair the healthy one’s ability to cover  living expenses.   But I’m single and my investment income can cover LTC.   And, if I’m really sick, I’d probably not survive more than a couple of years with plenty to still leave to my family when I die.

[+ jeezopete]

46 minutes ago, Johnrom said:

Nursing homes are expensive and a few years there can extremely costly.

That's true, but few years in a nursing home would probably depress me to the point that I'd consider a more permanent solution.

[+ Charlie]

My spouse is moving into an assisted care facility this week, so I decided to find out from a counselor whether he was eligible for any kind of government financial help for the very expensive monthly cost. I was advised that he has too much income to qualify. It's a good thing we weren't planning to leave any big bequests to anyone.

[+ PhileasFogg]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

My spouse is moving into an assisted care facility this week, so I decided to find out from a counselor whether he was eligible for any kind of government financial help for the very expensive monthly cost. I was advised that he has too much income to qualify. It's a good thing we weren't planning to leave any big bequests to anyone.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with that.  I hope the transition goes well for both of you. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

My spouse is moving into an assisted care facility this week

I'm curious why you're not both moving.

I recently moved an elderly friend into a facility in Fort Lauderdale. There are a lot of couples there. Many don't seem to NEED the care...I'm thinking just preparing for the inevitable so it's not a burden later in life.

[marylander1940]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

My spouse is moving into an assisted care facility this week, so I decided to find out from a counselor whether he was eligible for any kind of government financial help for the very expensive monthly cost. I was advised that he has too much income to qualify. It's a good thing we weren't planning to leave any big bequests to anyone.

Imagine if you had children... What a tough choice! 

[+ Charlie]

3 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I'm curious why you're not both moving.

I recently moved an elderly friend into a facility in Fort Lauderdale. There are a lot of couples there. Many don't seem to NEED the care...I'm thinking just preparing for the inevitable so it's not a burden later in life.

I don't need assistance (my spouse has advanced Alzheimer's as well as physical issues), nor do I need the hassle of selling our house, getting rid of decades' worth of possessions, just so we can continue to live together in the same residence. We also have an old dog, who would not be allowed to live with us. We have been together for 56 years, but have lived apart several times over the years because of work or other commitments, so I know I can manage on my own. In the past we have lived in different cities or even different countries,  and sometimes not even seen one another for months at a time, whereas this time we will be living only three miles apart and can see one another every day if we wish. I have been told by the manager that there is a male couple of the sort you describe in the same building with my spouse, and they are curious to meet us. I wouldn't mind having a private chat with the the individual who does NOT need to be there, to see how he feels now about their decision.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Charlie

[pubic_assistance]

I suppose it depends on the facility. Some are rather clinical and others can be quite luxurious. I placed an elderly friend in one that feels like a four star hotel with beautiful facilities like a cocktail lounge with live music, pool, game room and two dining rooms and a rooftop deck..as well as on-site beauty salon. Various levels of care are offered. Independent living/ assisted living and memory care.

Seems that maintaining two separate homes is going to be expensive. Although the issue of a dog will indeed limit your choices (but not preclude every one ).

[+ Charlie]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

I suppose it depends on the facility. Some are rather clinical and others can be quite luxurious. I placed an elderly friend in one that feels like a four star hotel with beautiful facilities like a cocktail lounge with live music, pool, game room and two dining rooms and a rooftop deck..as well as on-site beauty salon. Various levels of care are offered. Independent living/ assisted living and memory care.

Seems that maintaining two separate homes is going to be expensive. Although the issue of a dog will indeed limit your choices (but not preclude every one ).

I have been told that this facility was actually built as a resort hotel complex, but then converted to assisted living as well as memory care. He will be living in a building specifically intended for physical assistance plus memory care,  with only ten residential rooms (singles and doubles), plus dining area, entertainment area, and meeting rooms; the whole complex reminds me of a small residential college campus. If we lived in a four star hotel, we probably wouldn't take any advantage of a cocktail lounge with live music, game room or beauty salon anyway (that was never our life-style before he needed assistance). The couple I mentioned above are allowed to live together in a double room even though only one of them needs care, because they are married and apparently wanted to do it that way--I think I would be miserable in that situation. I would rather eventually die penniless than spend my own life institutionalized unnecessarily.

[samhexum]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

The couple I mentioned above are allowed to live together in a double room even though only one of them needs care, because they are married and apparently wanted to do it that way--I think I would be miserable in that situation. I would rather eventually die penniless than spend my own life institutionalized unnecessarily.

Perhaps the healthier spouse works or has other things that get him out of there regularly so for him it might just be like coming home to a studio apartment with maid and cooking services.

I haven't been able to afford apartment insurance for years and am on the 'hope I die suddenly before my meager savings give out' long-term plan.

Edited August 20, 2024 by samhexum
To maintain the incredibly high standards I have established here

[+ PhileasFogg]

5 hours ago, Charlie said:

I have been told that this facility was actually built as a resort hotel complex, but then converted to assisted living as well as memory care. He will be living in a building specifically intended for physical assistance plus memory care,  with only ten residential rooms (singles and doubles), plus dining area, entertainment area, and meeting rooms; the whole complex reminds me of a small residential college campus. If we lived in a four star hotel, we probably wouldn't take any advantage of a cocktail lounge with live music, game room or beauty salon anyway (that was never our life-style before he needed assistance). The couple I mentioned above are allowed to live together in a double room even though only one of them needs care, because they are married and apparently wanted to do it that way--I think I would be miserable in that situation. I would rather eventually die penniless than spend my own life institutionalized unnecessarily.

First, I respect your position on this immensely.    Assisted Living is a spectrum.   Level 1 is not "institutionalized" in a traditional assisting living environment.   It's essentially an apartment with concierge services.   However, if you were sharing an apartment with a Level 4 partner (I honestly don't recall how many levels there are) it may seem a bit more restrictive.   But as you say - 3 miles isn't that far.   It's great that you have a place that meets your needs so close.

My parents (now deceased) needed help.   I cut a deal with them - give it 60 days - I'll sell nothing and if it doesn't work, we're get you in-home assistance.   After two weeks then told me to sell everything.

[+ Charlie]

44 minutes ago, PhileasFogg said:

First, I respect your position on this immensely.    Assisted Living is a spectrum.   Level 1 is not "institutionalized" in a traditional assisting living environment.   It's essentially an apartment with concierge services.   However, if you were sharing an apartment with a Level 4 partner (I honestly don't recall how many levels there are) it may seem a bit more restrictive.   But as you say - 3 miles isn't that far.   It's great that you have a place that meets your needs so close.

My parents (now deceased) needed help.   I cut a deal with them - give it 60 days - I'll sell nothing and if it doesn't work, we're get you in-home assistance.   After two weeks then told me to sell everything.

I moved furniture (his bed, dresser, desk, easy chair, etc.) from our house into the assisted living studio. I don't intend to immediately replace the empty areas in the house for the same reason as you: I want to wait and see whether things work out at the assisted place, in case I have to move him back home.

[marylander1940]

Just a couple of feet could make a difference between having a home or not...

 

[+ sync]

On 8/20/2024 at 9:45 AM, pubic_assistance said:

I suppose it depends on the facility. Some are rather clinical and others can be quite luxurious. I placed an elderly friend in one that feels like a four star hotel with beautiful facilities like a cocktail lounge with live music, pool, game room and two dining rooms and a rooftop deck..as well as on-site beauty salon. Various levels of care are offered. Independent living/ assisted living and memory care.

Seems that maintaining two separate homes is going to be expensive. Although the issue of a dog will indeed limit your choices (but not preclude every one ).

That is very interesting and much appreciated.  I honestly was unaware that asststed-living facilities extended that far into opulence.  I have family that might be intetested to know that.

[pubic_assistance]

28 minutes ago, sync said:

That is very interesting and much appreciated.  I honestly was unaware that asststed-living facilities extended that far into opulence.  I have family that might be intetested to know that.

I did quite a bit of research when looking for a placement for my elderly friend. If your family member is retiring in Florida, I am happy to share my information. Feel free to DM.

[+ sync]

44 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I did quite a bit of research when looking for a placement for my elderly friend. If your family member is retiring in Florida, I am happy to share my information. Feel free to DM.

Thank you.  The couple I have in mind are currently in Maryland.

[Rudynate]

My husband and I have just about decided to buy a house in a 55-plus community in the Sacramento Delta.  The place is amazing - golf course, tennis, swimming pools, a beautiful clubhouse, fitness center, computer lab, library, etc.  They take care of the yard and the landscaping.  If you go away, they arrange for a pet sitter, and on and on. The houses themselves are beautiful.  I have looked and looked and thought and thought and I can't find much in the way of a down-side.

[BSR]

Because Florida insurance rates went through the roof, 15-20% of the state's homeowners "go bare," compared to just ~7% nationwide.  Now Helene just caused a sh!t-ton of flooding on the Gulf coast. 

One has to wonder how many flooded homeowners were going bare, whether because they decided to take a calculated risk or because they simply lacked the funds to pay the sky-high premiums.

Either/or, I fear a lot of Floridians are royally screwed.

Edited October 3, 2024 by BSR
Typo