I know it’s the holidays, but I wish I could tell clients how I feel….

[DWnyc]

On 12/30/2023 at 9:06 AM, Km411 said:

Regrettably, in this equation the provider bears all the risk.

I agree with many of your points here but not this. 

Clients also bear significant risks of physical security, reputational damage, extortion etc 

Lack of respect and much of that being stigma based is certainly true. But it’s two way. Some providers (not all) likely view clients not as peers in a transaction but as pathetic, outcasts etc who have no option than to meet with them for what they perhaps think comes easy to them. And this is behind what I think is sometimes bizarre behavior against their own self interest (long term / strategic / revenue maximizing). And a provider who is already public somewhat doesn’t have anonymity to lose whereas a client does.

The long list of potential attempts to gain leverage over clients - though requiring eg photos, “real” phone numbers, electronic trail for deposits and payment all have benign explanations. But also many not so harmless ones as well. 

And again, we’re talking about some providers, not all. 
 

[DWnyc]

On 12/30/2023 at 5:59 AM, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I just don’t enjoy the ones who treat providers like an option, while prioritizing everything else. I know it can be compared to every other biz: but the difference is the sex component involved. 

Unless you’re the only game in town, and even then not really … how could you be anything other than just an option. And by that I mean the service you provide, not you the human being. Because it’s the service that is sought and compensated.

This holds even if the alternative is I don’t engage anyone at all (vs another provider).

Why does the sex component make anything different? 

Asking someone selling something any detail to inform my eventual choice just doesn’t compel me to go forward with the transaction.

The proof isn’t in any argument made here - it’s in the ongoing complaining because the reality isn’t delivering results based on fantasy.
 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 hour ago, DWnyc said:

And by that I mean the service you provide, not you the human being. Because it’s the service that is sought and compensated.

this seems to be at core of OPs issue.  He’s taking it all personally, when the described issues are endemic to the profession & other service based businesses. 

In the end, it’s a numbers game with known issues that successful providers figure out how to mitigate to the point of non-issue.  It’s that simple 

[+ BobPS]

Jarrod: It is obvious to many of us that you are unhappy being a provider. My wish for you in 2024, is that you find a vocation that is lucrative and brings you happiness.

Edited December 31, 2023 by BobPS
Missed word

[+ DrownedBoy]

20 hours ago, DWnyc said:

I agree with many of your points here but not this. 

Clients also bear significant risks of physical security, reputational damage, extortion etc 

In "safe" cities like NYC/Chicago/LA, where police don't arrest prostitutes as part of their policy, the client can still be prosecuted. Clients are usually the only people who have any legal risk.

[ICTJOCK]

I certainly understand the challenges..    It probably doesn't hit me as hard as this is a side venture for me and my career keeps me focused.   This is,  however a time consuming side and I can understand the resentment if it seems to be a repeat event.  

[marylander1940]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:50 PM, Ali Gator said:

Last weekend a cousin of mine who has been selling real estate for the past 12 years told me she is leaving the business this weekend (she has a final closing on Friday). She's a single mom, and she just can't do it any more. She schedules appointments seven days a week to look at homes, condos, or apartment rentals. She's at their beck and call - meeting at times which is convenient for the client but not necessarily for her...but she wants the sale or rental commission. She drives all over the state no matter the weather, in hopes she'll close a deal. It doesn't always happen...

She explained to us the number of 'no shows' she gets, or the time she spends with buyers (months) looking for something - then they get cold feet when they find something they like and in their budget - and back out of the purchase with a lame excuse. She moves mountains trying to make a sale close, and then she finds out the mortgage falls through (the buyer lied on their finances). It's really wearing on her physical health and mental health - so she will be looking for a full time job, rather than commission-driven (and she's had some great years in the past 12, but she just can't do it anymore) . She has enough saved to live off the next few months, so she wants to focus in on what she would like to do full time (at the age of 53). 

 

She's not alone, many folks nowadays in all kinds of professions/activities get tired of dealing with epidemic flakiness and in her specific case with an extremely competitive market full of choices/competitors. 

I hope she's doing the right choice and if I was you I'd reach out to her. Also tell the students you work with about your cousin, so they know they're not the only ones having a tough life. 

[DWnyc]

12 hours ago, ICTJOCK said:

I certainly understand the challenges..    It probably doesn't hit me as hard as this is a side venture for me and my career keeps me focused.   This is,  however a time consuming side and I can understand the resentment if it seems to be a repeat event.  

Resentment among providers? I think among some this is from unrealistic expectations (financial and even emotional). It’s not indentured labor (unlike the path for many women) with conditions largely under one’s control more than elsewhere. If expectations are realistic and providers still become resentful they need to switch careers or come to terms with a choice that this is (presumably) better than the alternative options available to them. 

With advances in technology and more social acceptance for gay/bi men, provider margins and leverage are certainly more threatened esp if not understanding this is ultimately sales and customer service, and not a lifelong royalty for thinking of onesself as hot- and again this applies just to some, no offense meant to anyone.

Unfortunately the respect / suspicion gap between providers and clients as a whole is likely to grow especially as those providers (or fake providers) seeking shortcuts or worse keep up with the technology but not the service. Just heard about another guy falling foul of the “upfront partial payment for firstimers” scam, and the parting message from the supposed provider was, minutes after the almost-client reluctantly parted with his phone number to enable an electronic payment, a screenshot sent of his LinkedIn  and a Google map link to his house where he lives with his elderly disabled father, followed by being blocked on the app they connected on and the providers profile disappearing. 

[DWnyc]

14 hours ago, DrownedBoy said:

In "safe" cities like NYC/Chicago/LA, where police don't arrest prostitutes as part of their policy, the client can still be prosecuted. Clients are usually the only people who have any legal risk.

Any supposed provider that doesn’t ultimately understand this is either exceptionally naive and uninformed, or a fake.

 

[Thomas_Belgium]

On 12/31/2023 at 10:15 PM, DWnyc said:

Those in the hobby that we discuss here aren’t victims...

 

 

(Almost) everyone could be a victim for various reasons in (almost) every job worldwide, even when the job is executed voluntarily.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 12/31/2023 at 11:19 AM, blck37 said:

Think I might have read this all wrong....is the underlying topic be not getting dined out?

 

Lol, no…I was just saying that as part of the overall context. Like basically saying: in addition to “this”, there’s also “that”. But it’s not the sole or biggest issue. 
 

On 12/31/2023 at 11:21 AM, Thomas_Belgium said:

 

If this happens too much, it could be the start of a burn out. These guys won't care & are probably looking for the next victim they can use for their unrealistic instant satisfaction addiction.

 

On 12/31/2023 at 4:45 PM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

this seems to be at core of OPs issue.  He’s taking it all personally, when the described issues are endemic to the profession & other service based businesses. 

In the end, it’s a numbers game with known issues that successful providers figure out how to mitigate to the point of non-issue.  It’s that simple 

 

On 12/31/2023 at 5:02 PM, BobPS said:

Jarrod: It is obvious to many of us that you are unhappy being a provider. My wish for you in 2024, is that you find a vocation that is lucrative and brings you happiness.

 

On 1/1/2024 at 2:15 PM, ICTJOCK said:

I certainly understand the challenges..    It probably doesn't hit me as hard as this is a side venture for me and my career keeps me focused.   This is,  however a time consuming side and I can understand the resentment if it seems to be a repeat event.  

I just want to quote everyone at once. Thanks for all your inputs. 
 

I think I’ve come to ultimately reach deep within and figured out what the true (straight truth) issue of much of this is. It’s not about me burning out the business. It’s about me getting sick the same tired ass markets with the same tired clients who play games endlessly (e.g. Kansas City, St. Louis, Indianapolis come to mind) that push me to lose patience.

Some cities simply either A) suck for escorts or B) suck for non-White (specifically Black) escorts or C) suck after being there for a period of time and/or may be okay to visit, but not sustainable to live in either due to:

1. too many providers

2. closed minded population in a city

3. Preference towards only White/Latin/Non-Black providers within a market

4. expecting specifically Black providers, to meet for low/no pay 

5. cost of living in city expensive for the relatively younger population that resides (Denver/Portland) comes to mind

 6. not enough gay dudes willing to pay

 7. high crime in a city (Houston comes to mind)

8. Cities where many are frugal or cheap towards sex workers, especially towards non-White sex workers.

9. Other possibilities not listed such as: stings, scammers, free sex, etc. being prevalent in an area. 
 

It all matters. And I have talked to a provider, White guy in town visiting: apparently he does well in a couple of the cities I mentioned that suck. Which is how I know. For example. Guys in certain cities only want to pay $100-150. Example:

And what made me so upset to have to write this post, was because I had left a State that I was actually doing pretty lucrative visiting: came back home for a few days, and immediately started dealing with nonsense. I basically came home off tour for 4 days, and then was like screw this: I’m going right back on tour after Christmas. And I was immediately back to making money. I didn’t have time for people’s foolishness.

I know I can only tour so long at a time though. Eventually I still have to go home every couple weeks, as it’s not often good to be away consecutively for weeks at a time. But…every time I go back home it’s a struggle to not run out of funds until by next tour, because lot of these Midwestern clients be on bullshit, only ever book last minute leaving no time to plan anything to make anything happen, etc.

Going into this year, I’m finding a better place to go. Like right now, I came back to visit a city I used to live in…Nashville. Since then, there’s a decent amount of new clients that have popped up over the months, and I’ve booked a couple but: there’s still a boat load of providers here, and I notice the main thing seeking here is erotic massages. Which isn’t bad but, if I didn’t have a friend’s place to stay most of the time I been here: I woulda been breaking even/losing money on the cost of NYE weekend hotels in the area. 
 

That’s why I try to convey to people that I can’t just do $100 massages. I have to squeeze in 3 just to make $300, 5 to make $500. And Lord knows, many clients often have limited time available…which might not always match with my availability. So across the board, I mainly only see 1 to 3 clients in a day (not “per” day, and 3 is uncommon, but happened the other day).

Edited January 3 by Jarrod_Uncut

[+ Coolwave35]

You’re an incredible escort. You deliver what you say you will. You get people off. People leave you wanting more. That’s a consensus and has never been an issue or discussion here. You’ve never actually, in my memory, complained about anything asked of you in the session. Is that all correct?  
 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

4 hours ago, Coolwave35 said:

You’re an incredible escort. You deliver what you say you will. You get people off. People leave you wanting more. That’s a consensus and has never been an issue or discussion here. You’ve never actually, in my memory, complained about anything asked of you in the session. Is that all correct?  
 

For the most part, yes. Except in cases where they only want me to get off lol. 

[+ Coolwave35]

1 hour ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

For the most part, yes. Except in cases where they only want me to get off lol. 

So outsource the inquiries and do what you’re exceptional at!!!  Hire a handler and throw them $15 for every client that shows up and pays. Your business will double. People LOVE to catfish and pretend to be someone they’re not. Give some lonely homo PERMISSION to be you and you’ve got a win win my man. I hope you’ll consider it. 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

2 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Except in cases where they only want me to get off lol. 

Those are some of my favorite guys.  

Sit back, get serviced, get paid, leave smiling.

[DWnyc]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:44 AM, Thomas_Belgium said:

 

(Almost) everyone could be a victim for various reasons in (almost) every job worldwide, even when the job is executed voluntarily.

Ok that’s taking the discussion in a whole different direction. Workers of the world unite …

[DWnyc]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:30 AM, BenjaminNicholas said:

Those are some of my favorite guys.  

Sit back, get serviced, get paid, leave smiling.

Aren’t providers - in those scnarios - usually faking though?

[+ JEC]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:45 AM, Jarrod_Uncut said:

getting sick the same tired ass markets

Consider a tour of the Northeast, the major cities (Boston, NYC, DC) can all be reached by train.  There are a number of smaller/secondary cities you also might make some hay in, accessible from each of the major cities (Boston:  Provincetown, Providence, Portsmouth NH, Portland ME, Albany NY; NYC:  Hartford, New Haven, etc).  Mike Gaite does trips/tours like this and seems to be very successful at it; Victor Powers also did this with some success before he retired.   This strategy could also apply in other regions.  Esp if you plan these trips around events (Pride, MAL, Carnival or Bear Week in PTown, etc.).   Good luck!

Edited January 5 by JEC

[Thomas_Belgium]

4 hours ago, JEC said:

...(Boston:  Provincetown, Providence, Portsmouth NH, Portland ME, Albany NY; NYC:  Hartford, New Haven, etc)...

 

Because it is, in my opinion, a pandemic guys in these cities will have the same problems.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

13 hours ago, DWnyc said:

Aren’t providers - in those scnarios - usually faking though?

I'd say that really depends on the sexual technique of the client.

You can't fake putting a load in someone's mouth.

[DWnyc]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:13 PM, BenjaminNicholas said:

I'd say that really depends on the sexual technique of the client.

You can't fake putting a load in someone's mouth.

Good to know for my ego, I may have to revisit like 90% of my double guessing from mostly non provider experiences! 😊

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:28 AM, JEC said:

Consider a tour of the Northeast, the major cities (Boston, NYC, DC) can all be reached by train.  There are a number of smaller/secondary cities you also might make some hay in, accessible from each of the major cities (Boston:  Provincetown, Providence, Portsmouth NH, Portland ME, Albany NY; NYC:  Hartford, New Haven, etc).  Mike Gaite does trips/tours like this and seems to be very successful at it; Victor Powers also did this with some success before he retired.   This strategy could also apply in other regions.  Esp if you plan these trips around events (Pride, MAL, Carnival or Bear Week in PTown, etc.).   Good luck!

Thanks, well yeah that’s basically similar to the hub type of strategy. One main city with multiple other regions in close proximity. It can work out well. I haven’t tried those particular areas but, I’ve done some similar ones in other areas and it worked well.
 

However, what I like to do is have one city as the finish line: while including others along the way. Then once I’m ready to leave the destination, I may turn back around and go thru those same areas a 2nd pass. But lot of times I’ll take an alternate and do a new route. 

On 1/5/2024 at 9:47 AM, Thomas_Belgium said:

 

Because it is, in my opinion, a pandemic guys in these cities will have the same problems.

Sometimes, but I do know changing cities/regions can really make a difference in my schedule and just overall biz improvement. Like I said a few threads earlier, if I can be in places where I can avoid those particular attributes of a market, I have the ability to do greater in one place over another.