Are deposit requests becoming a regular thing?

[NYXboy]

10 hours ago, FrankR said:

I can tell you from experience (which shapes my opinion) that 9 times out of 10 paying a deposit is a bad idea. Even if the guy has been on rentmn for years and have reviews. Even if he seems like a nice guy. Even if it is just $50. 9 times out of 10. I am a slow learner, but eventually even I can catch on.
 

You have clearly had a different experience. Good for you. Try not to be so hard on other people who have not had your experience with deposits. 

 

9 times in a row and you still kept doing it and only now suddenly stopped? Sure Jan. 

[LATraver1263]

https://rent.men/DiegoMenendez
 

got scammed by this guy in San Antonio Saturday, he facetimed & asked for 115 Deposit, i sent him the hotel address & all of a sudden tried to play the whole “me no speak good english” act & never showed… kept claiming he was in the hotel lobby when HE NEVER WAS

[coriolis888]

5 hours ago, NYXboy said:

 

9 times in a row and you still kept doing it and only now suddenly stopped? Sure Jan. 

He is an eternal optimist.  He is hoping that the greed in many providers will not continue, but it does continue. 

Hence, avoid deposits wherever possible.  

[Simon Suraci]

The flakers motivate providers to require deposits, or otherwise be guarded with their time or vet who they book. Deposits are one way (not the only way) to filter up the serious clients. We need some way to identify the serious people, otherwise we waste a lot more of our time and don’t earn a living.

To make a living, we have to keep busy, so it behooves us to fill our time with serious, trustworthy clients. When you are a popular provider, you have the luxury of choosing the more serious client over the less serious client.

You may be a great client. Fine. Demonstrating in one way or another that you are a good client is another story entirely. Something as simple as booking your second preference for a time slot versus your first preference is a free and easy way to demonstrate you are serious and a good client.

When a provider is busy and suggests booking another day or time, do so. Don’t just throw in the towel (and a tantrum) because a provider wasn’t available the moment you texted for an immediate appointment, or for the specific time you requested. This happens to me all the time, and I make an effort to work with their schedule.

The client frequently makes no effort to work with mine. The message I get from clients is that they expect me to be dedicated, on-call, only available to them, at a moments notice, and that they will not hire me if I am not. That’s not true of course, but that’s how bad clients treat me. I say good riddance because I have lots of good quality clients filling my time.

Men on this forum generally aren’t the ones flaking. It’s the other 9/10 clients that are not on the forum behaving disrespectfully, and that gives us legitimate reason to do things like require a deposit or vet a client through a verification app. I avoid requiring deposits, but for some, it’s one of the few ways to meaningfully weed through a sea of flaky, disrespectful people.

[mds1]

29 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

 I avoid requiring deposits, but for some, it’s one of the few ways to meaningfully weed through a sea of flaky, disrespectful people.

@Simon Suraci, do you have any thoughts on how much these providers who do ask for a deposit should or would be asking? Would most feel like a small amount would be adequate to prove seriousness, or do they feel like at least half or more is better for a deposit? 

[coriolis888]

On 3/6/2023 at 5:06 AM, NYXboy said:

If it hurt their business they wouldn't be doing it more, evidently, it is, in fact, having the opposite effect for it to be becoming a more regular occurrence. You obviously look down on providers and think they are SO beneath you, yet you desire them too so this must be why you are so bitter.

I can't see what the problem is with a small deposit - every time I use opentable to book a table at a restaurant, it takes my cc details and I am charged if I do not show,

When I book a hotel- if I don't show, I am charged (I recently even asked a hotel if I could change dates as a family emergency came up and was no longer able to go - they refused even with a week's notice) 

My hairdresser charges me a cancelation fee if I do not show up. 

When you buy tickets to a broadway show - you are still charged if you don't show up - because you have paid in advance! 

I actually think it makes sense and has good business acumen considering how much they are put out - people have mentioned how bottoms must do prep work - to just *hope* that the person they are dealing with is genuine and have respect for their time. But more than that, I think respect is the keyword here - something your comment makes me think you lack for the profession and don't consider it 'work',  when in fact you probably are really HARD work. 

I'm not saying give a large deposit to someone who has just created a profile, no reviews, no mention here on this forum, and wanting thousands of dollars - use your brain.  If you are going to spend $300-$400 on the booking why would you have an issue with a $50 deposit? You wouldn't. You wouldn't unless you were not serious - or you want to be able to flake out and don't respect or value their time.  

 

 

How misguided!

[NativeNewYorkGuy]

I will never send a deposit or pay in advance. It is the oldest scam in the books. I don't care how hot the pictures are--or even that I may miss out on a great session. I will never ever ever ever ever ever pay in advance.

[Simon Suraci]

3 hours ago, mds1 said:

@Simon Suraci, do you have any thoughts on how much these providers who do ask for a deposit should or would be asking? Would most feel like a small amount would be adequate to prove seriousness, or do they feel like at least half or more is better for a deposit? 

It varies per provider and type of service. I’m a massage therapist, so most situations would never require a deposit. On occasion, I require a deposit for particularly long appointments, travel outside my normal range, or if the appointment requires coordination with other providers like a 4-hand massage, or other specific/unusual requests. The more I have to lose if the client flakes, the more inclined I am to ask for a deposit.

If you are hiring an escort, or a massage provider for escort services, the stakes and costs are higher, so I would expect more escorts to require some sort of deposit. I can’t speak for every provider, but I would never pay more than half up front. I think 20% is perfectly reasonable. Even $50 is fine. It’s a gesture to motivate you to follow through and to demonstrate (through action, not just words) that you are serious and worth the provider’s time.

As always, use your best judgement. I acknowledge that scams are very much a real thing and you have to watch for warning signs. If something doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t. We’re on the side of caution. However, I would not be afraid to send a nominal deposit for a reputable provider. That usually means they are popular, which means they have more reason to charge a deposit.

If you’re asking for something that takes a lot of time, travel, preparation, or coordination, I would expect your provider is more likely to require a deposit.

[+ DrownedBoy]

18 hours ago, LATraver1263 said:

https://rent.men/DiegoMenendez
 

got scammed by this guy in San Antonio Saturday, he facetimed & asked for 115 Deposit, i sent him the hotel address & all of a sudden tried to play the whole “me no speak good english” act & never showed… kept claiming he was in the hotel lobby when HE NEVER WAS

Yeah, I hate when they do that. I had an ESL that disappeared between his arrival and my condo for 30 minutes, claimed he forgot to charge his phone so he couldn't text me, and then said I owed him either $50 more or 30 minutes less.

He regretted it.

[coriolis888]

On 2/26/2023 at 3:54 PM, nycman said:

Only from the scammers. 

How do you know in advance if the provider is a scammer?

Many providers  are so convincing that they could almost charm a bird out of a tree.  

It is after you have advanced them your money do you find that you were a fool believing the provider was honest and believable.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by coriolis888

[+ nycman]

29 minutes ago, coriolis888 said:

How do you know in advance if the provider is a scammer?

It’s simple.

If they ask for a deposit…..they’re a scammer.

[KeepItReal]

On 3/6/2023 at 5:33 AM, FrankR said:

I can tell you from experience (which shapes my opinion) that 9 times out of 10 paying a deposit is a bad idea.

 

On 3/6/2023 at 3:56 PM, NYXboy said:

 

9 times in a row and you still kept doing it and only now suddenly stopped? Sure Jan. 

Ahem. It's an expression. 

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/nine-times-out-of-ten

If you send a deposit you will never see your doh again! 🤭

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by KeepItReal

[NYXboy]

5 hours ago, nycman said:

It’s simple.

If they ask for a deposit…..they’re a scammer.

this forum has really opened my eyes to what providers have to deal with. I feel sorry for you. 

[Simon Suraci]

7 hours ago, NYXboy said:

this forum has really opened my eyes to what providers have to deal with. I feel sorry for you. 

This forum has opened my eyes to what clients have to deal with. I feel for you guys. Loss aversion is much more powerful psychologically than many positive and fulfilling sessions.

Some may be scammers, many others are legit. I’m sorry many of you have had bad experiences, but it’s unfair to use language like always, never, or yes/no binaries. You have every right to be cautious and you don’t have to pay deposits if you’re uncomfortable doing so. By all means, move on to providers who do not require a deposit, but I would not expect every provider to risk their scarce resources for every client, every time. 

There will always be a need for popular and busy providers to allocate scarce resources. It’s economics. When demand is high, willingness to take on unvetted and flaky clients is low. When the reverse is true, willingness is high. Deposits, among other strategies, are a means for providers to allocate their scarce resources more efficiently. Better to lose a couple would-be good clients than take on many more would-be bad ones.

On both sides of the discussion, each party is experiencing majority negative of the other. i.e. 9/10 clients are flakes, or 9/10 providers are scammers. All the more reason to rely on recommendations from others you trust.

I’m so glad company of men exists. It helps establish who’s good, who’s reliable, real, and worth your time and money. We focus on the negative so much, on what we have to lose by taking on a client or hiring a provider. If you’re concerned about hiring someone new, seek out providers with a good reputation, either through forums here, or elsewhere online or IRL. Find the good ones and hire them. When you have a positive experience, keep hiring them. It’s win-win. Some of my best clients are regulars. With mutual trust and respect, both parties are very happy.

Variety is nice, I get it. Sometimes reliability and trust is a much more fulfilling route. Treat one another well. 

 

[Lazarus]

Unfortunately constantly hiring the same providers gets boring real quick when there is so much out there, ^^^

[+ jessmapex]

A simple solution to this issue is to bring  hustler bars back in some upgraded non-seedy form. Meet in person , pick who you like, negotiate, and take home.

No data trail for cops. No deposits. No flaking.

[MikeSinz]

https://rentmen.eu/MikeSinz

I've heard from many of my clientele that they have been getting robbed and taken advantage of. I would never ask for a deposit you lose a lot of money that way. Most of these guys are just trying to get $20 30 deposit. Times that by 10 to 15 clients A-day you made a pretty good Day.

[Beancounter]

1 hour ago, MikeSinz said:

https://rentmen.eu/MikeSinz

I've heard from many of my clientele that they have been getting robbed and taken advantage of. I would never ask for a deposit you lose a lot of money that way. Most of these guys are just trying to get $20 30 deposit. Times that by 10 to 15 clients A-day you made a pretty good Day.

I’ll never forget the time you stood me up in Dallas @MikeSinz  Thank god you never asked me for a deposit.  

[Simon Suraci]

2 hours ago, Lazarus said:

Unfortunately constantly hiring the same providers gets boring real quick when there is so much out there, ^^^

I suppose that’s the cost of constantly hiring new providers. Nothing wrong with that by any means, you just have to have a reasonable expectation of risk and reward. If you expect all providers to be reliable all of the time, and that nobody requires a deposit under any circumstances, all of them cater to your specific needs, your schedule, any last minute requests, and so on, I would highly recommend reevaluating your expectations.

If hiring reliable people only once or max a few times isn’t doing it for you, prepare to face a lot of challenges. You're setting yourself up for lots of disappointment. That's fine as long as you're prepared to deal with it.

Providers don't pick their clients, but we have to deal with all our clients anyway. Even when they're flaky, unreasonably demanding, or rude. That's a cost of doing business we have to accept if we want to stay in business. Clients get to choose who they want to deal with, whether a few reliable ones or many new faces all the time, of which some are good, and some are bad.

The reward of constant novelty is your trade-off. If that reward is greater than the cost of your risks, go for it. If your risk tolerance is low or the cost too great, that’s on the client. Btw I'm speaking in general terms to clients, not "you" specifically. You can’t have everything all your way all the time. The world isn’t built to serve you.

Sometimes the client has to eat the cost (risk) of constantly hiring new people to get the experiences they want. In the same way, providers eat the cost of constantly dealing with bad clients in order to stay in business and cumulatively earn enough from the good clients to make a decent living.

[+ nycman]

3 hours ago, jessmapex said:

A simple solution to this issue is to bring  hustler bars back in some upgraded non-seedy form. Meet in person , pick who you like, negotiate, and take home.

No data trail for cops. No deposits. No flaking.

Honestly, that didn’t solve all the problems either.
In the bar, they’d promise the world.
As soon as you were in the room, they wanted $$ upfront. 
As soon as you paid, you’d be out the door in under 5 min with blue-balls.
They didn’t call them Hustler bars for nothing. 

Again, not all but some. You had to ask around the bar. 
Like here, most other clients were eager to help you avoid the scammers.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

2 hours ago, Beancounter said:

I’ll never forget the time you stood me up in Dallas @MikeSinz  Thank god you never asked me for a deposit.  

[+ nycman]

2 hours ago, Beancounter said:

I’ll never forget the time you stood me up in Dallas @MikeSinz  Thank god you never asked me for a deposit.  

So does that count as not getting fucked….twice?

grin

[NYXboy]

13 hours ago, MikeSinz said:

https://rentmen.eu/MikeSinz

I've heard from many of my clientele that they have been getting robbed and taken advantage of. I would never ask for a deposit you lose a lot of money that way. Most of these guys are just trying to get $20 30 deposit. Times that by 10 to 15 clients A-day you made a pretty good Day.

LOL if you want people to think you are getting 10 - 15 clients a day, and 10-15 that are happy to send a $20 deposit to lock the meeting down. 

Why would a provider take a $20 when they could see the client and get $300.   Make it make sense.  It doesn't make sense. And as good old judge judy says - if it doesn't make sense, its not true. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by NYXboy

[Lazarus]

2 hours ago, NYXboy said:

LOL if you want people to think you are getting 10 - 15 clients a day, and 10-15 that are happy to send a $20 deposit to lock the meeting down. 

Why would a provider take a $20 when they could see the client and get $300.   Make it make sense.  It doesn't make sense. And as good old judge judy says - if it doesn't make sense, its not true. 

Simple. Some people set up fake profiles using really hot pictures that they know will get a lot of requests for an appointment. They ask for a small deposit never to be heard again. 

[+ DrownedBoy]

7 hours ago, Lazarus said:

Simple. Some people set up fake profiles using really hot pictures that they know will get a lot of requests for an appointment. They ask for a small deposit never to be heard again. 

Yeah - and they pop up on RM when they need money, still using their 10-year-old photos. I've pegged several of those here.

A hint - if you make an appointment, and they ask for a deposit at the last minute, cancel immediately. When one guy tried that on me, I just laughed at him over the phone and hung up.