How to bring up more with your masseur.

[Massageguy99]

So I have someone in market who I have seen maybe 6-8 times over a couple years. COVID put a damper on it because moved across town and it is more difficult to get to him. 

Anyway before COVID his massage was therapeutic but could be sensual in style with HE and MT if you push. However he is always fully clothed. He did not do draping before COVID and would also massage your butt during massage. 

After covid he added draping and does not really massage your butt the same way. Almost like he is less interested in touching people. 

Anyway he list his add as therapeutic and sensual but no erotic on RM and on MF he only list therapeutic. 

I have always received a HE and tip him about $20 more than his asking price. He also has always allowed me to touch him but does so by just barely pulling down his shorts. 

My question is there any way to ask if he could be nude during the massage without making him mad. I really enjoy his massage and if it has to only be this way I understand but I am afraid he will be offended. 

He is French and sometimes comes off a little cold or stoic. Like he has a line you can't cross and if you offend I could see him just dumping a client. 

I actually met another client of his in an unrelated way and we discussed him as a provided. The other client told me before COVID he seemed more open but now he seems more rigid and pretty much the other clients feels like I do. We would appreciate more sensual but he was also afraid to bring it up.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

I would just ask, “Are you comfortable being in the nude while doing the massage, or is that not something you offer?“

And it’s either yes or no at that point. Can’t control whether a person gets mad or not…you can decide whether you want to continue things the way they are or look elsewhere.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jamie21]

If he hasn’t got naked or pulled his shorts down by now then I seriously doubt he will be willing to do so now, even if you ask him. It seems to make him uncomfortable so I’d suggest that even if he did consent it would make for an awkward session. Maybe just enjoy his massage for what it is and keep the naked massage with him as a fantasy. 

[Massageguy99]

8 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

If he hasn’t got naked or pulled his shorts down by now then I seriously doubt he will be willing to do so now, even if you ask him. It seems to make him uncomfortable so I’d suggest that even if he did consent it would make for an awkward session. Maybe just enjoy his massage for what it is and keep the naked massage with him as a fantasy. 

That is a good point. He actually has let me touch him and pulls down his shorts at the end. I think I just need to stick with the fact that he is comfortable where is and not push it. 

Tbh his massage is probably an 8.5 out of 10 on the technical side which is why I keep going back. In my market it is very difficult to find more than a 7 consistently. 

We have a lot of pass through people and I have found some wonderful 9s and 10s but a whole lot of 5s and below as well ha. 

[Mercury]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:23 AM, Massageguy99 said:

That is a good point. He actually has let me touch him and pulls down his shorts at the end. I think I just need to stick with the fact that he is comfortable where is and not push it. 

Tbh his massage is probably an 8.5 out of 10 on the technical side which is why I keep going back. In my market it is very difficult to find more than a 7 consistently. 

We have a lot of pass through people and I have found some wonderful 9s and 10s but a whole lot of 5s and below as well ha. 

Out of curiosity, what city are you and your masseur in? I’m kind of in the same situation, except the guy I see is Russian. 

[GregWillingAble]

"How to bring up more with your masseur?" - Simple... agree to parameters upfront and you - the client - learn the difference between a "masseur" and a "sex worker". 

This is a subject that, frankly, pisses me and a lot of other actual escorts / sex workers off, as the grey areas some masseurs work in really make life difficult for everyone.

I'm a sex worker / escort. I'm happy to offer (self taught) massage as part of my bookings. I charge standard male sex worker rates for my sessions... and obviously I am open to all pre-agreed sex acts during those sessions. However, I have lost count how many enquiries I've had by men who balk at my rates and say "I know a masseur who'd do that for £40!" 

1. More fool that masseur for doing the work of a sex worker and but not getting paid their worth, just because they want to avoid the label of being a "sex worker". 

2. Masseurs might except the request to give a happy-finish or more for an extra on-the-spot tip, but there is no ethical obligation to actually do it. If they aren't attracted to the client, they could make take offence at the offer and you feel awful for simply requesting it.  How much they bend their ethical code of professional conduct on occasions should never be at the expense of misleading a client and shaming them for expecting a more sexual service. 

If you want a professional massage, see a masseur. If you want sex and intimate contact, don't be cheap and expect a masseur do bend their rules for you for a little extra pocket money.... See an sex worker who will be happy to set comfortable parameters for everyone up-front, and get exactly what you pay for (with the option for more) with no risk of rejection, judgement or shaming. 

And masseurs... please... either just be sex workers or stay in your lane. I promise you'll still get more regular work than we do. 

[TorontoDrew]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:17 AM, Massageguy99 said:

So I have someone in market who I have seen maybe 6-8 times over a couple years. COVID put a damper on it because moved across town and it is more difficult to get to him. 

Anyway before COVID his massage was therapeutic but could be sensual in style with HE and MT if you push. However he is always fully clothed. He did not do draping before COVID and would also massage your butt during massage. 

After covid he added draping and does not really massage your butt the same way. Almost like he is less interested in touching people. 

Anyway he list his add as therapeutic and sensual but no erotic on RM and on MF he only list therapeutic. 

I have always received a HE and tip him about $20 more than his asking price. He also has always allowed me to touch him but does so by just barely pulling down his shorts. 

My question is there any way to ask if he could be nude during the massage without making him mad. I really enjoy his massage and if it has to only be this way I understand but I am afraid he will be offended. 

He is French and sometimes comes off a little cold or stoic. Like he has a line you can't cross and if you offend I could see him just dumping a client. 

I actually met another client of his in an unrelated way and we discussed him as a provided. The other client told me before COVID he seemed more open but now he seems more rigid and pretty much the other clients feels like I do. We would appreciate more sensual but he was also afraid to bring it up.

This is why I have a registered massage therapist for my massage needs and then see an escort for the rest.

Edited September 18, 2022 by TorontoDrew

[Vulgarii]

If that masseur is that prudish and cautious after soooooo many years and sessions with you, he's not into you, and if you go very far with him, you won't enjoy it. It won't be anything special. You will not be satisfied and you might push things more and more next time, and that's why too why some of us never let the cat out of the bag in the first place.

 

It's pretty lame to not go as far as massaging the glutes due to covid, and useless to start draping afterdrawing pandemic, like that will help prevent anything. Wearing masks doesn't do much of anything either, especially while getting massaged in a stranger's home that's been breathing and coughing everywhere. 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Vulgarii
Typos and adding picture.

[Vulgarii]

On 9/15/2022 at 8:57 AM, GregWillingAble said:

"How to bring up more with your masseur?" - Simple... agree to parameters upfront and you - the client - learn the difference between a "masseur" and a "sex worker". 

This is a subject that, frankly, pisses me and a lot of other actual escorts / sex workers off, as the grey areas some masseurs work in really make life difficult for everyone.

I'm a sex worker / escort. I'm happy to offer (self taught) massage as part of my bookings. I charge standard male sex worker rates for my sessions... and obviously I am open to all pre-agreed sex acts during those sessions. However, I have lost count how many enquiries I've had by men who balk at my rates and say "I know a masseur who'd do that for £40!" 

1. More fool that masseur for doing the work of a sex worker and but not getting paid their worth, just because they want to avoid the label of being a "sex worker". 

2. Masseurs might except the request to give a happy-finish or more for an extra on-the-spot tip, but there is no ethical obligation to actually do it. If they aren't attracted to the client, they could make take offence at the offer and you feel awful for simply requesting it.  How much they bend their ethical code of professional conduct on occasions should never be at the expense of misleading a client and shaming them for expecting a more sexual service. 

If you want a professional massage, see a masseur. If you want sex and intimate contact, don't be cheap and expect a masseur do bend their rules for you for a little extra pocket money.... See an sex worker who will be happy to set comfortable parameters for everyone up-front, and get exactly what you pay for (with the option for more) with no risk of rejection, judgement or shaming. 

And masseurs... please... either just be sex workers or stay in your lane. I promise you'll still get more regular work than we do. 

 

Agreed. Some clients want to get off and think they can beat the stigma of hiring for sex by seeing a massage therapist, and some think they can save money and request escort services from a massage therapist. 

Some people think masseurs are budget prostitutes, and some masseurs market themselves that way, but it hurts masseurs, it hurts escorts, and it hurts the egos of men when their offers are declined, and their expectations aren't met if they didn't have the balls to ask for things upfront.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Vulgarii
Grammar

[Jamie21]

Sensual masseurs (or erotic masseurs) are sex workers - I prefer to use that description than prostitute because I think it carries less baggage - so anyone hiring a sensual masseur is doing the same thing as hiring an escort. You’re hiring to satisfy sexual needs. Ok so it will include massage, which if done correctly (sensual massage) will, and is intended to arouse. It’s a seduction. A masseur will have restrictions on what he or she may do sexually but then escorts will too. So it just comes down to a) what will he do sexually and b) what is his price. Clients should nail both those things down. But let’s be clear we’re not talking about sensual masseurs and escorts being different things, they’re the same thing (sex worker) which only differs by degree. I speak as someone who has done both jobs. 

[Marc in Calif]

On 9/18/2022 at 7:58 AM, arnemgreeves said:

Even erotic masseurs could get the huff if they're asked for sex - even if they do handjobs, prostate massage, etc

Is "get the huff" an expression used in the UK? I've never heard or read it, and I've lived in several major regions of the United States. 🤓

[+ Lucky]

7 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

Is "get the huff" an expression used in the UK? I've never heard or read it, and I've lived in several major regions of the United States. 🤓

That raised my curiosity as well. I saw this at the urbandictionary.com:

the huff

when the chick you are fucking is lying on her back, and then you cum on her face and pin her down and take a shit right on her face

What's that shit on your face Casey, did you just get huffed???

by Kenny February 27, 2005

***

More likely it is this: A British expression used to describe a person who is sulking or upset about something.

[Marc in Calif]

Yes, that makes sense — the sulking and not the shitting. 😆

[mike carey]

On 9/25/2022 at 7:14 AM, Marc in Calif said:

Is "get the huff" an expression used in the UK? I've never heard or read it, and I've lived in several major regions of the United States. 🤓

I hadn't heard of 'the huff' and rather wish I still hadn't, but that aside 'to get in a huff' is common in Australian English, which usually has similar vernacular to British English, especially to English in England, and it means to become visually, or noticeably annoyed, or to display annoyance. I suspect this was the meaning intended here.

[Marc in Calif]

2 hours ago, mike carey said:

 'to get in a huff' is common in Australian English

Same in the United States, Mike. Same meaning. 👍

[GregWillingAble]

On 9/24/2022 at 10:01 PM, Jamie21 said:

Sensual masseurs (or erotic masseurs) are sex workers - I prefer to use that description than prostitute because I think it carries less baggage - so anyone hiring a sensual masseur is doing the same thing as hiring an escort. You’re hiring to satisfy sexual needs ... But let’s be clear we’re not talking about sensual masseurs and escorts being different things, they’re the same thing (sex worker) which only differs by degree. I speak as someone who has done both jobs. 

Sorry, but no.

Firstly... a prostitute and escort are two different things entirely. A prostitute is someone who publicly solicits for sex that comes with a specific price tag per act (illegal in most places). Escorting is paying someone for their time - what happens in that time is between two consenting adults (legal in many places). Sensual masseurs are a huge grey area, where they mostly seem happy to do the work of a prostitute or escort for a bit of extra cash - but mostly underselling themselves by not openly calling it "sex work", and probably violating most ethical / professional codes of conduct for any trained health professional.    

Secondly... saying an erotic masseur is the same as an escort "just because they are both sex workers" is like saying an Uber driver and a private chauffeur are the same thing just because they both drive cars.

Sure, ultimately they can both help you arrive at the same destination. But the service you pay for and agree to in advance are two VERY different things, and should not be confused.

[Jamie21]

2 hours ago, GregWillingAble said:

Sorry, but no.

Firstly... a prostitute and escort are two different things entirely. A prostitute is someone who publicly solicits for sex that comes with a specific price tag per act (illegal in most places). Escorting is paying someone for their time - what happens in that time is between two consenting adults (legal in many places). Sensual masseurs are a huge grey area, where they mostly seem happy to do the work of a prostitute or escort for a bit of extra cash - but mostly underselling themselves by not openly calling it "sex work", and probably violating most ethical / professional codes of conduct for any trained health professional.    

Secondly... saying an erotic masseur is the same as an escort "just because they are both sex workers" is like saying an Uber driver and a private chauffeur are the same thing just because they both drive cars.

Sure, ultimately they can both help you arrive at the same destination. But the service you pay for and agree to in advance are two VERY different things, and should not be confused.

I didn’t say they were prostitutes. I said they’re both sex workers. Your example of Uber driver and private chauffeur is apt. They’re both types of transport provider. Sensual masseur and escort are both types of sex worker. They both work with people’s sexual desires, in different ways. 

The point about most sensual masseurs being happy to do the work of an escort for a bit of extra cash is your guess ….’most’?? what % do you reckon? I think it’s pure conjecture on your part. What price someone sets on their time and service is up to them. I guess you’re concerned they’re undercutting your rates and taking business. Well that happens with sex worker masseurs too where ‘spa style’  therapy masseurs sometimes do extras (yes at risk of their licence). I’d say if you’re good at what you do then you need not worry about people under cutting you. 
You’re in the UK, escorting is legal here so no need to go through that pretence if you’re paying for my time and anything that happens is unrelated to the payment….especially when you’re advertising additional services that carry a premium price! 
 

[Rod Hagen]

I've never understood why clients go through the work and frustration of hoping/searching for more with a masseur.  If you want more, hire an escort, problem solved. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Rod Hagen

[Bucky]

11 minutes ago, Rod Hagen said:

I've never understood why clients go through the work and frustration of hoping/searching for more with a masseur.  If you want more, hire an escort, problem solved. 

For a great many massage clients, that is exactly the thrill they are seeking.  Anticipating the unexpected extras.  

Edited November 7, 2022 by Bucky

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Rod Hagen said:

I've never understood why clients go through the work and frustration of hoping/searching for more with a masseur.  If you want more, hire an escort, problem solved. 

I can share MY viewpoint on this.

I don't generally hire escorts because I can't know I want to have a physical engagement with someone until I've met them.

I understand gay men seem to need two dic-pics and a face photo and they're out the door...but I'm not wired that way.

When I hire a gay masseur, I get to meet the person and engage them in a non committal way first. If things get sensual, and I am comfortable, I tip generously for their extra attention. When I tip generously, after each subsequent hire, there have been offers of more -  and I am more interested because I now know the person and know if I WANT more. The masseur is also has the ability to decide if they are comfortable, as I am not some random person.

I've hired a porn start once because I thought he was physically beautiful...but the encounter was less than satisfying in person. 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[Rod Hagen]

1 hour ago, Bucky said:

For a great many massage clients, that is exactly the thrill they are seeking.  Anticipating the unexpected extras.  

I've heard that of course, I just don't understand how the excitement of the expectation vs. the uncertainty and likely disappointment makes the anticipation worth it.  It's me, personally I don't get it.  I do get it's a thing :-)

[Jamie21]

It’s an allegory for life. The pleasure is the journey not the destination. 

 

[Wolfer]

4 hours ago, Rod Hagen said:

I've never understood why clients go through the work and frustration of hoping/searching for more with a masseur.  If you want more, hire an escort, problem solved. 

Because I desire both an excellent quality massage and sex in the same session. Most escorts I've been with that offered massage were often just a rubdown.

I broach the subject in my first contact with a masseur. Masseurs I've had contact with have been open (and willing) to discuss these things upfront (but then sexwork is completely legal where I work). 

[pubic_assistance]

3 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

It's an allegory for life. The pleasure is the journey not the destination. 

That's actually an interesting perspective.

And beautifully put

[pubic_assistance]

6 hours ago, Rod Hagen said:

I've heard that of course, I just don't understand how the excitement of the expectation vs. the uncertainty and likely disappointment makes the anticipation worth it.  It's me, personally I don't get it.  I do get it's a thing 🙂

I think it makes the interaction feel more real.

I certainly remember going on dates when I was a teen eagerly anticipating the negotiations of a potential handjob. 🤣