San Francisco Safety

[jtwalker]

Headed to San Francisco soon and I'm curious about safety.  Some of the news makes it look like a third-world country.  Anyone with first-hand experience?  I don't trust the news.

[maninsoma]

I live just south of Market, not far from city hall.  I'd say that San Francisco has declined significantly in many neighborhoods.  I still generally feel safe walking around during the day, but sometimes I do encounter someone who is either in some sort of mental health breakdown or active substance use reaction that makes them act aggressively.  It's definitely best to pay attention to your surroundings and do something simple like cross the street if your sense is that someone ahead of you is agitated.  That being said, it isn't like residents or visitors are being attacked left-and-right so I don't want to create an inaccurate picture that this is an incredibly dangerous place to be.

I do think that burglaries -- particularly auto break-ins -- are out of control.  That really isn't anything new here, though; it's just even worse than it used to be.  If you rent a car for your visit, you must remember to never leave anything in your car.  Don't even leave an empty bag or something of minimal value.  If someone who is inclined to "smash and grab" sees something in your car, they will break your window and snatch your item first, and then just toss it if it's worthless.  They don't care that they caused hundreds of dollars of damage only to find out that they stole your dirty gym clothes.

[jtwalker]

Thank you!

[+ azdr0710]

As usual, always be aware of your surroundings and walk with purpose and confidence. Don't let fear sabotage your visit. 

A few years ago, I wanted to walk thru the notorious Tenderloin during a visit. Imagine my surprise when a map check revealed it to be just a couple very short blocks from the safety and security of tourist-clogged Union Square and the St Francis Hotel!  

[Rudynate]

I have lived here for more than 30 years.  The only place I have ever felt unsafe was in the Hayes Valley neighborhood before they took out the Central Freeway.  Nothing bad ever happened to me, but it was spooky after dark.  

The Tenderloin has gotten so crumby and seedy that I don't even like to drive through it - at any time of day or night.

Yes, there are plenty of homeless everywhere and I could imagine someone feeling at least a little uncomfortable who has never been around  such large numbers of them.   And they can be intimidating because they are so angry and so miserable.

It's still a great town though.

[Guest]

I agree that the Tenderloin is dangerous. I'd go so far as to say it's the most dangerous place I think I've ever been. I would avoid that neighborhood day or night. Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, Danger!

Edited May 28, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ nycman]

I used to love SF.

Unfortunately, now it’s a dump that I avoid at all cost.

In fact, if California friends want to meet up, I suggest LA over SF,
which is something I would have never dreamed of doing 30 years ago 

[MscleLovr]

I agree strongly with @nycman I lived in SF for some years, but now I confine myself to brief visits there. The main reason for visiting is to dine at some favourite restaurants, especially Chez Panisse in Berkeley.

When I lived there, some interesting research into crime in SF was published, using statistics for 2005-2010 (IIRC). In most US cities, crime is confined very much to so called “bad areas” (generally poor neighbourhoods) but SF is an outlier. The report showed that violent crime (including robberies and killings by a stranger) occurred as frequently in good areas of SF as in bad areas.
 

I lived in a good area (Pacific Heights) and was never a victim of crime myself. I also walked a great deal in the city, even through the Tenderloin in the daytime. Yet an acquaintance of mine was killed by a stranger outside the main door of his building in Pacific Heights early morning. And 5 years earlier, a friend of mine was stabbed one evening while driving his convertible by Alta Plaza (also in Pacific Heights).

[Becket]

I've been once, a few years ago.  The restaurants are marvelous and I enjoyed the scenery, and the weather.  Cloudy and cool in the middle of August. It was refreshing.  I really enjoyed my visit and would love to go again.  But I am uneasy what with all the bad news.  Guess it's like anywhere.  Just be careful and use common sense.  

[+ Lucky]

Who's afraid of a few homeless people?

[SFGateboy]

I used to live in SoMa, and I still work in the Financial (though I rarely go in nowadays). The last few times I've been in the City, I have noticed it's simultaneously quieter on the streets downtown and also a bit more grungy. I do think the homeless situation is a little out of control, and those in San Francisco are a bit more aggressive than elsewhere, I've noticed. Still, if you walk with a purpose and don't engage, I'd say 95% of them time, they won't engage with you either.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Lucky said:

Who's afraid of a few homeless people?

I don't know if you're being serious or not, but, really, you don't understand why people would be fearful of a drugged-out financially desperate person, the kind which populate the Tenderloin? One of my best friends from college, an expert at Tai Kwon Do, was stabbed in the chest, and that homeless druggie nearly killed him (was in the ICU for over a week). He subsequently moved back to LA. This was just outside, but not in the Tenderloin. I should have told him to avoid that area when he moved to SF. 

[Rudynate]

4 hours ago, Lucky said:

Who's afraid of a few homeless people?

That's the way I feel, but I understand why people that are new in town wouldn't have learned that attitude yet.

[Rudynate]

39 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I don't know if you're being serious or not, but, really, you don't understand why people would be fearful of a drugged-out financially desperate person, the kind which populate the Tenderloin? One of my best friends from college, an expert at Tai Kwon Do, was stabbed in the chest, and that homeless druggie nearly killed him (was in the ICU for over a week). He subsequently moved back to LA. This was just outside, but not in the Tenderloin. I should have told him to avoid that area when he moved to SF. 

Often, people who live in  cozy, affluent suburbs like Danville are fearful of the inner city and tend to magnify in their minds the poor conditions and the dangers associated therewith.   I remember, when I lived in Rochester in the 80s, I happened on a job opportunity for my nephew who was in high school,  who had grown up, and barely had ever been out of, a mid-scale suburb.  When I called him and told him about it, he asked me if it was downtown, and I said yes.   He responded "No way man.  I'm not going downtown!!"  Thing was, downtown Rochester had just been the object of an exhaustive urban renewal project and looked brand-spanking new.  New convention center, hew hotels, vintage buildings renovated, etc. etc.

[jtwalker]

I know nothing of SF, so what exactly is a tenderloin and how does one avoid it?  I've never been.

[Rudynate]

3 minutes ago, jtwalker said:

I know nothing of SF, so what exactly is a tenderloin and how does one avoid it?  I've never been.

[Rudynate]

 You have to learn the lay of  the land.  The Tenderloin is a very bad neighborhood that has all the problems associated  with very bad urban neighborhoods - drug-related crime, violent crime, lots of scary homeless people and so on.  The thing is, San Francisco is a very compact city and the Tenderloin is adjacent to Nob Hill, one of the more desirable neighborhoods and Union Square - the retail district and Center of Everything in San Francisco.   You can wander into the Tenderloin from Union Square without even knowing it.  There is a transitional neighborood between the Tenderloin and Nob Hill that people who live there often call  the "Tendernob."   People can find relatively affordable housing there, and it isn't a very desirable neighborhood, but it isn't anywhere as gritty as the Tenderloin. Roughly speaking, anywhere west of Union Square, south of, maybe,  Post Street,  and north of Market Street is the Tenderloin.

 

Oh - I forgot - East of Polk Street. So west of Union Square, south of Post Street, north of Market Street and east of Polk Street.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Rudynate
add content

[Guest]

15 hours ago, jtwalker said:

I know nothing of SF, so what exactly is a tenderloin and how does one avoid it?  I've never been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin%2C_San_Francisco

"The Tenderloin is a neighborhood in downtown San Francisco, in the flatlands on the southern slope of Nob Hill, situated between the Union Square shopping district to the northeast and the Civic Center office district to the southwest. It encompasses about 50 square blocks, and is a large wedge/triangle in shape (point faces East). It is historically bounded on the north by Geary Street, on the east by Mason Street, on the south by Market Street and on the west by Van Ness Avenue. The northern boundary with Lower Nob Hill historically has been set at Geary Street. The area has among the highest levels of homelessness and crime in the city... 
Nestled near the downtown area, the Tenderloin has historically resisted gentrification, maintaining a seedy character and reputation for crime. Squalid conditions, homelessness, crime, illegal drug trade, prostitution, liquor stores, and strip clubs give the neighborhood a seedy reputation...The Tenderloin is a high-crime neighborhood, particularly violent street crime such as robbery and aggravated assault. Graffiti art and tagging are common in the neighborhood. Dealing and use of illicit drugs occurs on the streets. Property crimes are common, especially theft from parked vehicles. Violent acts occur more often here and are generally related to drugs. The area has been the scene of escalating drug violence in 2007, including brazen daylight shootings, as local gangs from San Francisco, and others from around the Bay Area battle for turf. 14 of the city's 98 homicides took place in the area in 2007. Seven of the top 10 violent crime plots (out of 665 in the entire city as measured by the San Francisco Police Department) are adjacent plots in the Tenderloin and Sixth and Market area..."

For me, no neighborhood in the world exudes such an aura of danger as the tenderloin of SF. The only thing which might match the danger might be the favelas of Rio. The tenderloin's streets are chock full of used heroin needles and drugged addicts screaming at their hallucinations.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ azdr0710]

googling "tenderloin san francisco" brings up this rosy summary seemingly written by the area Chamber of Commerce!:

The famously gritty Tenderloin has underground art spaces, classic concert venues such as the Great American Music Hall and historic theaters staging Broadway and indie shows. Its funky, colorful streets feature a mix of upscale, trendy and casual restaurants. Nightlife ranges from dark dives slinging beer and shots to speakeasy-style bars mixing craft cocktails. Little Saigon is known for its Vietnamese eateries. ― Google

[mike carey]

5 hours ago, jtwalker said:

I know nothing of SF, so what exactly is a tenderloin and how does one avoid it?  I've never been.

I'm not sure that posters uniformly recognised the double entendre in this question.

[maninsoma]

I occasionally am in the Tenderloin because there are some good restaurants there.  When I first moved to San Francisco, I lived in the Tendernob.  Some blocks are definitely sketchier than others, and in general the entire area is much worse now than it was 20 or 30 years ago. 

[HornyLatinBi]

i used to dance at some porn theaters in tenderloin but when i return there all of that is gone

not unsafe to me, just sad

[Rudynate]

7 hours ago, azdr0710 said:

googling "tenderloin san francisco" brings up this rosy summary seemingly written by the area Chamber of Commerce!:

The famously gritty Tenderloin has underground art spaces, classic concert venues such as the Great American Music Hall and historic theaters staging Broadway and indie shows. Its funky, colorful streets feature a mix of upscale, trendy and casual restaurants. Nightlife ranges from dark dives slinging beer and shots to speakeasy-style bars mixing craft cocktails. Little Saigon is known for its Vietnamese eateries. ― Google

That is a pretty rosy description of the Tenderloin, but it isn't untrue.  The places they describe do exist and I have been to some of them.  Now, whether a first-time visitor to San Francisco should seek them out depends on how confident and adventurous  he/she is. Someone who has never ventured out of a squeaky-clean suburb in the midwest might feel very threatened.  Someone who has traveled a lot and seen other urban areas might take it in stride.  I remember the first time I visited Montreal when I was in high school. I couldn't believe how slummy and dive-y some parts of town were, but since I came from a city that had its own slums, it wasn't a big deal - just an adventure - obviously, I lived to tell about it.

[spider]

I travel to SF frequently, and am really sad at how far down it has gone. I don't feel especially unsafe, but it just isn't a nice place to be. Formerly I'd extend my business trip by a few days if I could. Now I get in and out at quickly as I can. Really too bad.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, HornyLatinBi said:

i used to dance at some porn theaters in tenderloin ...