COVID Gains After Mask Rules Dropped

[mike carey]

6 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Also, 40% of all the people dying from COVID right now are vaccinated. The common cold doesn't kill 40% of the people who get it. 

Forty percent of people who die of Covid being vaccinated is not the same as 40% of people who catch Covid dying. It's true that the common cold doesn't kill 40% of people who catch one, but 40% of people who catch Covid isn't the number dying either. There may be a comparison to be made between common cold and Covid case fatality rates but this isn't it.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 minute ago, mike carey said:

Forty percent of people who die of Covid being vaccinated is not the same as 40% of people who catch Covid dying. It's true that the common cold doesn't kill 40% of people who catch one, but 40% of people who catch Covid isn't the number dying either. There may be a comparison to be made between common cold and Covid case fatality rates but this isn't it.

I didn't claim 40% of people who get COVID are dying. I was responding to the claim it was the same as the common cold. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

The economy has certainly made gains after the masks rules and mandatory closures have been dropped.  Thank God there's no need for expanded hospital capacity in most of the world right now like there was at the beginning before the vaccines.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Vegas_nw1982

[Luv2play]

7 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I didn't claim 40% of people who get COVID are dying. I was responding to the claim it was the same as the common cold. 

That claim came from our Dr. De minimus aka Dr. Denier.

[Luv2play]

2 hours ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

The economy has certainly made gains after the masks rules and mandatory closures have been dropped.  Thank God there's no need for expanded hospital capacity in most of the world right now like there was at the beginning before the vaccines.

Not so fast. The economy appears to be heading for the toilet.

[+ WilliamM]

28 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

That claim came from our Dr. De minimus aka Dr. Denier.

I agree. Comparing covid19 to the common cold is ridiculous 

[Guest]

On 6/20/2022 at 3:00 PM, KensingtonHomo said:

The Delta variant was far more virulent and deadly than the Alpha strain. Omicron seems to be AS deadly to the unvaccinated as Alpha was, and it's far more transmissible. I'm vaccinated and boosted and had COVID-19 last month. It was certainly worse than a cold. 

The claim that COVID is moving inexorably toward being less virulent is just a narrative made up in the heads of people who want the pandemic to be over. It's not based in science at all. 

Also, 40% of all the people dying from COVID right now are vaccinated. The common cold doesn't kill 40% of the people who get it. 

Very little of what you said in this posting is factually correct. The only parts which are true are (1) omicron is far more transmissible than prior variants, (2) possibly, the fact that your infection was worse than a cold for you personally, though that's obviously irrelevant to the discussion (if true, your experience was statistically atypical), and (3) possibly, your statistic (you didn't quote the source) of 40% of the people dying from the virus being vaccinated, though, again, that's quite irrelevant to the discussion on the overall virulence of the virus. 

This is a link to the current statistics (sorry, but I'm traveling and am not good a transferring graphs on my laptop):

https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+deaths+us&oq=covid&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0i131i433i512j69i59j0i131i433i457i512j69i60l4.1013j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

As of yesterday, June 20th, there were 89 deaths daily total in the entire USA (population 350 million), with a 7-day average of 267 deaths per day. Leaving aside the issue that all people testing positive are counted in these statistics, even when the death was clearly unrelated, that is still far less than one would expect from a common cold, and exponentially less than prior variants of the virus. These numbers are unbelievably low given the extraordinary contagiousness of this strain and the extremely high prevalence:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

"The percentage of COVID-19 NAATs (nucleic acid amplification tests)* that are positive (percent positivity) is increasing in comparison to the previous week. The 7-day average of percent positivity from NAATs is now 13.7%."!!!!

Despite the Delta being a good 50% more contagious than Alpha, none of the peaks seen the graph from the first link are as high as those from the alpha strain. Much more goes into the death statistics than the case fatality rate. Other factors, such as contagiousness, the degree of lockdowns, immunizations statuses, number of days the variant was prevalent, and so on, are involved. 

Once again, no public health official has proclaimed the virus can't mutate to a more virulent form. That's why we're still collecting statistics. However, anyone who believes the current strain is anywhere nearly (let alone equally) as deadly as prior strains simply has not looked at the statistics. No ifs, ands, or buts about that. 

[FewBricksShy]

Masks were more effective when the disease was 1) less transmissible and 2) more virulent. At this point, especially with meds to take when you come down with COVID, the chance of getting severely ill are much slimmer than before. I'm not interested in wearing a mask anymore simply because I might happen to give COVID to someone who isn't vaccinated of their own choosing. Kids can get vaccinated now as per the FDA and CDC. So if parents make the choice not to vaccinate their kids, that's on them. I don't see it as my moral obligation anymore to take on extra measures for the sake of others who won't do it for themselves. It's one thing if vaccination and therapeutics weren't here, but they are. People are choosing to not get vaxxed. And as for those who can't get the shot, that's always been the case for other diseases too. Yet we don't all put on masks because someone can't get get the shot for whooping cough, for example. That person has to be more careful. It's time for people to assume more personal responsibility. COVID is here forever.

[+ WilliamM]

Does "the common cold" include bronchitis?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WilliamM said:

Does "the common cold" include bronchitis?

Yes, bronchitis is usually caused by common cold viruses (rhinoviruses, cornonaviruses). It's commonly seen when cold viruses attack those with chronic lung diseases, such as asthma, chronic bronchitis, emphysema. I have asthma, so my colds usually turn into bronchitis. Not much to do about it but taken inhaled steroids and wait it out. Prednisone helps in bad cases. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Unicorn

[Guest]

On 6/20/2022 at 11:20 PM, Luv2play said:

Not so fast. The economy appears to be heading for the toilet.

Two major factors are involved in the current economic problems. One of them is the major supply-chain problem due to China's disastrous "zero Covid" policy, and other slowdowns which came about due to restrictions placed in response to the virus. The second major problem is obviously large increases in energy costs due to the Russia-Ukrainian war as well as disruptions in food exports from those countries. Ukraine used to supply the world with a large portion of the world's grain, which is now going to waste, and results in worldwide increases in food prices. 

Traveling in Britain at this time, we can also see the severe repercussions of the lockdown, such as many businesses which didn't survive the lockdown (I was looking forward to going to one of the Belgo restaurants in London, for example, but the chain went under during the lockdown). We were going to go to an evening of Welsh folkloric entertainment in Cardiff tomorrow, but the group went under due to the drop in tourism. Obviously, some restrictions were necessary at certain times. Failing to monitor and respond to changes on the ground in a timely manner, however, leads to unnecessary long-lasting economic damage. The US, in particular, was one of the last countries to drop pre-return testing requirements, which prevented travel for Americans who feared getting stranded and unable to return home when they needed to. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ sniper]

On 6/20/2022 at 10:00 AM, KensingtonHomo said:

The Delta variant was far more virulent and deadly than the Alpha strain. Omicron seems to be AS deadly to the unvaccinated as Alpha was, and it's far more transmissible. I'm vaccinated and boosted and had COVID-19 last month. It was certainly worse than a cold. 

The claim that COVID is moving inexorably toward being less virulent is just a narrative made up in the heads of people who want the pandemic to be over. It's not based in science at all. 

Also, 40% of all the people dying from COVID right now are vaccinated. The common cold doesn't kill 40% of the people who get it. 

That last two sentences there have no logical connection whatsoever. The fatality rate of COVID for people who are vaccinated is far less than 1%.

[marylander1940]

On 6/16/2022 at 12:53 PM, EZEtoGRU said:

Just back from a quick 3-day trip to Houston.  No-one in Texas is wearing masks...anywhere.  Also on the plane and in airports, virtually no-one is masking.  I saw one other person on the plane with a mask on...other than me.  

Separately, COVID hospitalizations in Michigan have started dropping again.  They had more than doubled from the end of March till mid-May and then have gradually started coming down again.  COVID deaths have also started dropping.  They had increased from end-April to late May before gradually dropping again.    COVID hospitalizations and deaths definitely increased in Michigan after the restrictions were dropped.  

Let's see what happens in the fall and winter.

I've always been on team Fauci but... let's just go through it. We have vaccines and pills, and it's not that deadly or at least omicron isn't. 

[marylander1940]

16 minutes ago, sniper said:

That last two sentences there have no logical connection whatsoever. The fatality rate of COVID for people who are vaccinated is far less than 1%.

and in most cases of vaccinated and unvaccinated the fatalities increase if the person is overweight, asthma, etc. Compared to other things we have survived this is not as bad!

[+ KensingtonHomo]

4 hours ago, sniper said:

That last two sentences there have no logical connection whatsoever. The fatality rate of COVID for people who are vaccinated is far less than 1%.

That's simply not true. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

54 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

That's simply not true. 

😂Good one!

[+ KensingtonHomo]

54 minutes ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

😂Good one!

You can be glib about COVID-19 as much as you want. 350 Americans are still dying every day from it. It's disrupting supply chains, air travel, schools, etc. And the vaccines minimize but do not prevent transmission. So enjoy a country that never recovers from a pandemic that could have been prevented or eliminated with different leaders and choices. 

[FewBricksShy]

@KensingtonHomo– No sense litigating all that now. And God forbid we make the flu association, but the flu shot doesn’t prevent the flu either. And it’s updated every year. As we learn more, we’ll get better at dealing with COVID. But we can’t simply live masked, socially distant lives for decades. I speak as one whose mother died from COVID.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 minute ago, FewBricksShy said:

@KensingtonHomo– No sense litigating all that now. And God forbid we make the flu association, but the flu shot doesn’t prevent the flu either. And it’s updated every year. As we learn more, we’ll get better at dealing with COVID. But we can’t simply live masked, socially distant lives for decades. I speak as one whose mother died from COVID.

My mother died from a different infectious disease, and lots more can be done to mitigate COVID and other infections. We simply do a terrible job of infection prevention, control and public health because we don't spend any money on it. You can choose to accept it, but I do not. 

[FewBricksShy]

3 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

My mother died from a different infectious disease, and lots more can be done to mitigate COVID and other infections. We simply do a terrible job of infection prevention, control and public health because we don't spend any money on it. You can choose to accept it, but I do not. 

I don’t need your unacceptance negatively impacting my life. Your life. Your choices. My life. My choices. “We” are past the point of compelling behavior. “We” need to learn to live with COVID because “we” all know the risks. “We” don’t need people continuing to bombard us for the umpteenth time about the facts. “We” are informed now and possess the means to protect ourselves from death-dealing sickness. “We” therefore have at our disposal the tools to make individual choices that are right for us.

[+ nycman]

23 minutes ago, FewBricksShy said:

I don’t need your unacceptance negatively impacting my life. Your life. Your choices. My life. My choices. “We” are past the point of compelling behavior. “We” need to learn to live with COVID because “we” all know the risks. “We” don’t need people continuing to bombard us for the umpteenth time about the facts. “We” are informed now and possess the means to protect ourselves from death-dealing sickness. “We” therefore have at our disposal the tools to make individual choices that are right for us.

Bam!

And so was born….what shall ever be know as….the CoM “We" soliloquy.

[+ WilliamM]

12 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

and in most cases of vaccinated and unvaccinated the fatalities increase if the person is overweight, asthma, etc. Compared to other things we have survived this is not as bad!

Overweight?  Lordy. What does that have to do with covid19. Smoking is far more serious as a cause 

[+ sniper]

7 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

That's simply not true. 

40% of the people dying being vaccinated is absolutely not the same thing as saying 40% of vaccinated people who contract it are dying. There are about 350 people per day dying and about 100,000 new cases per day. That is well under 1%. 

[+ sniper]

17 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

Overweight?  Lordy. What does that have to do with covid19. Smoking is far more serious as a cause 

Has to do with oxygen uptake.  More weight means more oxygen is needed and thus an impairment to your lung function is a bigger deal, all else equal.

[+ WilliamM]

7 minutes ago, sniper said:

Has to do with oxygen uptake.  More weight means more oxygen is needed and thus an impairment to your lung function is a bigger deal, all else equal.

A bigger deal than smoking?