Has the Reopening of Bathhouses Negatively Affected the Escorting Business?

[lonely_john]

Open Question for Escorts, but clients can give their perspective too

[Alexphilly]

Haven't been to any for a long long time  but I've heard form friends that Some people are still afraid to go due to covid . I particularly don't like BH just a bit too sleazy for me and here in Philadelphia they are pretty sleazy a lot of unsavory characters lurking in those places in Philadelphia BH, Well we do have a pretty good one called clubphilly but the rest of them Adonis etc etc sleazy and I carry myself pretty well but even I'm afraid lol 

 

[+ RJD]

1 hour ago, Alexphilly said:

Haven't been to any for a long long time  but I've heard form friends that Some people are still afraid to go due to covid . I particularly don't like BH just a bit too sleazy for me and here in Philadelphia they are pretty sleazy a lot of unsavory characters lurking in those places in Philadelphia BH, Well we do have a pretty good one called clubphilly but the rest of them Adonis etc etc sleazy and I carry myself pretty well but even I'm afraid lol 

 

The Adonis was a shit hole when I went there over 20 years ago.  I can't imagine what it's like now.  The floor in the first floor bathroom literally sagged from water damage. The patrons were hit and miss....more miss than hit, but when it was a hit, it was good.  Usually closeted college jocks from one of the local universities looking to get off. I'm surprised they're still open.  

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Baths and escorts don't really compete with one another: That's like saying 'does Grindr hurt your industry.'

There's room for everyone and the experience an escort offers is a LOT different than rolling the dice at a public bath.

Added, there are only a handful of decent baths left in the States. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[sjmuktop]

I used to frequent several of the gay bathhouses (here in the UK we call them 'gay saunas') in London. I was a regular patron at Chariots Shoreditch and Chariots Vauxhall before they closed down and also Sweatbox, Soho (which is still open). I used to absolutely love those places and I'd say the majority of my sexual conquests and encounters over the years have taken place in those establishments.

Now I don't go to them anywhere near as often as I used to (they were all shut down the past year due to Covid anyway).

Most of the sex I have nowadays is with escorts - which I actually much prefer. 

[Alexphilly]

3 hours ago, RJD said:

The Adonis was a shit hole when I went there over 20 years ago.  I can't imagine what it's like now.  The floor in the first floor bathroom literally sagged from water damage. The patrons were hit and miss....more miss than hit, but when it was a hit, it was good.  Usually closeted college jocks from one of the local universities looking to get off. I'm surprised they're still open.  

I'm sure it got worse I think now a bunch of homeless guys camp out there  . I like club philly but it is kinda expensive . The last time I went was one Friday night ... And wow it was Twink city in there lol day time is more mature guys I definitely like the basement dungeon set up and the saunas . I think they have some sort of maze there  too at least there you can get a locker and a private room some rooms have slings in them and tvs too I'm sure it's extra tho . Lol but that Adonis definitely a shithole 😂

Edited August 6, 2021 by Alexphilly

[+ RJD]

1 hour ago, Alexphilly said:

I'm sure it got worse I think now a bunch of homeless guys camp out there  . I like club philly but it is kinda expensive . The last time I went was one Friday night ... And wow it was Twink city in there lol day time is more mature guys I definitely like the basement dungeon set up and the saunas . I think they have some sort of maze there  too at least there you can get a locker and a private room some rooms have slings in them and tvs too I'm sure it's extra tho . Lol but that Adonis definitely a shithole 😂

There was another one, probably before your time because it closed in 2014, called the All-Male Sansom Cinema, on 13th Street just off Sansom.  It had the main movie theater, a mini-theater, and the Tom-Cat Bookstore on-site.  I went once back in the 90's and never went back.  It had a bad vibe, the crowd was sketchy and I didn't feel safe. 

 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

12 hours ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

Baths and escorts don't really compete with one another: That's like saying 'does Grindr hurt your industry.'

There's room for everyone and the experience an escort offers is a LOT different than rolling the dice at a public bath.

Added, there are only a handful of decent baths left in the States. 

This topic is quickly reverting to a topic about bathhouses, which isn’t the message. This sums it up well. 
 

But likewise there is no comparison. I’d say Grindr unfortunately is a bigger effect than bathhouses are. However, it’s still the same concept. I do know clients who talk of going to bathhouses, and they may call me before or after going anyway.
 

And like you said: this thread hypothesis fails to address the biggest caveat: many cities outside of the NYCs DCs and San Frans, don’t have bathhouses as it is. I was in Arkansas last week in the middle of nowhere. You know what the bathhouse was? A Gay couple who owns a large home and pool. So, whether bathhouses open or close, Gay guys will be having sex parties (or gatherings where it involves wearing underwear around other men) regardless.

Even in Orlando, the one big bathhouse by the name of club Orlando, I’ve browsed there and it’s not conducive. Also, many clients are often looking for sex during the day hours. Bathhouses often have slim pickings that time of day. You can probably pick up someone for sure, but it’s just enough to get you by usually. Bathhouse sex is like eating at McDonald’s until you have time to go out for Prime Rib 😂 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Jarrod_Uncut

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

7 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

But likewise there is no comparison. I’d say Grindr unfortunately is a bigger effect than bathhouses are. However, it’s still the same concept. I do know clients who talk of going to bathhouses, and they may call me before or after going anyway.
 

And like you said: this thread hypothesis fails to address the biggest caveat: many cities outside of the NYCs DCs and San Frans, don’t have bathhouses as it is. I was in Arkansas last week in the middle of nowhere. You know what the bathhouse was? A Gay couple who owns a large home and pool. So, whether bathhouses open or close, Gay guys will be having sex parties (or gatherings where it involves wearing underwear around other men) regardless.

Even in Orlando, the one big bathhouse by the name of club Orlando, I’ve browsed there and it’s not conducive. Also, many clients are often looking for sex during the day hours. Bathhouses often have slim pickings that time of day. You can probably pick up someone for sure, but it’s just enough to get you by usually. Bathhouse sex is like eating at McDonald’s until you have time to go out for Prime Rib 😂 

 

Veering even further down the rabbit hole, I'd say that Grindr is the ruination of a guy's ability to effectively communicate his sex needs.  It's changed the way and language of how people hook up (or don't, based on the extreme number of flakes).  It's kind of fascinating to look at.

As for baths, you've got places like Steamworks (Chicago,Berkeley, Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto) that attract a wide variety of very good looking guys, as the facility is considered the gold standard.  Then you have second-tier like The Club chain, which is usually hit or miss, as the facilities themselves are a franchise and not all kept in the same state of upgrade/repair. 

 

[+ DERRIK]

Benjamin is right about Steam Works

its been a long time since i went but first class operation

the big plus they work like hell on housekeeping.  Constantly cleaning etc

 

[lonely_john]

1 hour ago, DERRIK said:

Benjamin is right about Steam Works

its been a long time since i went but first class operation

the big plus they work like hell on housekeeping.  Constantly cleaning etc

I used to go there once in a while but not anymore since the number of guys high on drugs increased. They reopened in Ontario since July 16 but are now operating at limited capacity (100 patrons max.) and requesting Covid contact tracing information at check-in: Full Name, Phone number, etc. UGH! I really value my privacy so those are a couple more reasons to NOT GO.

Edited August 7, 2021 by lonely_john

[sjmuktop]

@lonely_johnSadly, in my experience, those places are full of guys high on chems (usually 'G' or Tina/crystal meth). 

Ambulances have been called out to the gay saunas of London many times because one of the customers had overdosed on something - usually on 'G'.

The use of these hard drugs as sexual enhancements in the gay world is tragic.

It's not just in the bathhouses/saunas, however. As it happens, the first escort I ever hired actually died of a 'G' overdose back in 2008. He was only 21-years-old.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

8 minutes ago, lonely_john said:

requesting Covid contact tracing information at check-in: Full Name, Phone number, etc. UGH! I really value my privacy so those are couple more reasons to NOT GO.

And for me, this would be a reason TO go.  It's a responsible business practice in the COVID age.

[Jamie21]

2 hours ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

And for me, this would be a reason TO go.  It's a responsible business practice in the COVID age.

Yes me too. I’ve no problem giving those details. Places that are loose on protocol are more likely to have loose practice on cleaning, drug use prevention and safety standards. Give me a professionally run establishment every time. Just because it’s a sex establishment shouldn’t be a reason to be rubbish. 

[Merboy]

The escorting business took its first huge hit with the shutting down of Rentboy which terrified people.

In 2013, you could find the man of your dreams - in 2021, it's barely possible anymore.  I stopped hiring altogether years ago - there just wasn't the kind of men I wanted to spend $1,000 on anymore and until there are a few good ones out there, it ain't happening.  I'll save that money for things I really need (even though I really need to cuddle with a hot guy in P-town).

The second hit was COVID, and we're still in that Hell and it doesn't seem to get any better with these new terrifying variants.

[jeezifonly]

I agree that hiring is not in any way comparable to cruising a bathhouse.

Aside from money exchanged for access, and never knowing how it’s going to end.

[mike carey]

16 hours ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

And for me, this would be a reason TO go.  It's a responsible business practice in the COVID age.

 

14 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

Yes me too. I’ve no problem giving those details. Places that are loose on protocol are more likely to have loose practice on cleaning, drug use prevention and safety standards. Give me a professionally run establishment every time. Just because it’s a sex establishment shouldn’t be a reason to be rubbish. 

I'm with Benjamin and Jamie on this, although there would be no choice in the matter here. Establishments are required by law to record details of everyone who visits, and that would include places like these. They have to have a QR code linked to the health ministry tracking app. Both establishments and customers can be fined for failure to comply. Establishments have to provide an alternative for people who don't have smart phones. Most places I've been have devices staff use to register you onto the state/territory app, although some have a sign-in sheet. (Even Canberra buses have QR codes on the window at every seat as well as at the door, and will use fare cards to track those who can't scan.) The businesses don't have access to the data on the various apps, and the data is only retained by public health for the length of time it is useful for virus tracking.

[Keenan]

For me it actually has helped.  When a client can't host I suggest we meet at a bathhouse.

Keenan

[HoleTrainer]

Nope.  Hasn’t hurt it at all.  My clients come to me for my specialized talents, including my ability to utterly relax them and make them feel super comfortable to be vulnerable and open up their holes for me.  They could never find a comparable environment in a bathhouse, and it would be unlikely that they would meet someone with my specific talents there as well.  My regular clients tend to be married/partnered, successful and busy with running their business, and not very interested in spending lots of time waiting around a bathhouse to see if they can find what they’re seeking.  I do have one client who enjoys bathhouses and he HAS paused on hiring me lately while he enjoys the bathhouses being reopen.  I suspect that this is temporary tho as he just reached out to me a few days ago indicating that we should meet again soon.  Although I enjoy and miss him, he’s also one of my lowest paying clients, grandfathered in from an earlier rate agreement, so I don’t feel like this is actually much impact on my “business”, as newer higher paying clients have filled into my schedule while he’s been away.

FWIW, although I’m not a “bathhouse person”, I do really enjoy public sex in bars, dance clubs, and sex parties, personally.  I often attend these in my free time and have public sex without even thinking about money, as I’m not really in “work mode” when I’m cruising on my off-time.  I just ENJOY public sex a lot, especially spontaneous public sex.  I don’t feel that this hurts my business at all either.  In fact I suspect it helps, because when guys can see or experience me in “live action”, sometimes I get hired later by someone who was watching me play in a public space but desires my one-on-one attention in private.

So basically- TLDR: I agree with everyone else who’s expressed that public sex in a bathhouse and private sex one on one are incredibly different things!  To the point where I happily do one for free but nearly always charge for the other, and I don’t think they act as any type of conflict of interest or business liability to the other.  Like others have expressed, if anything they work together synergistically.  Bathhouses and sex clubs are good for escort biz.

[Guest]

On 8/7/2021 at 8:07 AM, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

 

Veering even further down the rabbit hole, I'd say that Grindr is the ruination of a guy's ability to effectively communicate his sex needs.  It's changed the way and language of how people hook up (or don't, based on the extreme number of flakes).  It's kind of fascinating to look at.

 

Amen. I think the biggest effect grindr has had on escorting is not that guys go looking on grindr instead of RM, but that some guys go looking on RM in the same way that they go looking on grindr, which is to say, hopelessly. It is indeed fascinating. It is so hard to gauge these things quantitatively but I wonder, from the number of clients who tell me something along the lines of "wow, that was so much nicer than trying to get laid on grindr", whether a sort of a reaction to grindr culture is forming, resulting in more people hiring. Anecdotally there are about 3X as many active m4m escorts in my hometown as there were 6 years ago when I started-so if they're all seeing enough business to make it worthwhile it would suggest the market is growing. 

Sorry if this is veering EVEN FURTHER down the rabbit hole, it's just something I think about a lot.

[lonely_john]

10 minutes ago, DanteV said:

Amen. I think the biggest effect grindr has had on escorting is not that guys go looking on grindr instead of RM, but that some guys go looking on RM in the same way that they go looking on grindr, which is to say, hopelessly. It is indeed fascinating. It is so hard to gauge these things quantitatively but I wonder, from the number of clients who tell me something along the lines of "wow, that was so much nicer than trying to get laid on grindr", whether a sort of a reaction to grindr culture is forming, resulting in more people hiring. Anecdotally there are about 3X as many active m4m escorts in my hometown as there were 6 years ago when I started-so if they're all seeing enough business to make it worthwhile it would suggest the market is growing. 

Sorry if this is veering EVEN FURTHER down the rabbit hole, it's just something I think about a lot.

This is actually what happened to me even though I'm not the typical Grindr user because I'm over 50. But I got tired of the bad manners, unresponsiveness, flaking, ghosting, and the like. So, if I used to log in the app on a weekly basis, now I do it maybe every 3 months and that could be an exaggeration.

Counting the money one invests on dating, it can easily be close to $150, with no guarantees of (good) sex in the end. $150 is the rate of some providers and when you put that in context, then it's worthy investing $150, $200, $300 or more, in good quality memories that might stay with you for a long time.

[+ Pensant]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:11 PM, Alexphilly said:

I'm sure it got worse I think now a bunch of homeless guys camp out there  . I like club philly but it is kinda expensive . The last time I went was one Friday night ... And wow it was Twink city in there lol day time is more mature guys I definitely like the basement dungeon set up and the saunas . I think they have some sort of maze there  too at least there you can get a locker and a private room some rooms have slings in them and tvs too I'm sure it's extra tho . Lol but that Adonis definitely a shithole 😂

Surprised to hear that twinks patronize baths!

[Jamie21]

The more sex establishments are open the better. It’s good for business. In my experience the more sex guys get the more they want, so I’m happy. 

I notice an increase in clients once lockdowns ended and now that most are vaccinated. I think people are more confident to go out and start living again. 

[italianboyph]

I don’t think so. As many know bathhouses can be hit or miss and can be really bad or could be good. It’s def a lot different being that when you hire someone you know what you’re gonna get.

[CalTec]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:03 PM, lonely_john said:

I used to go there once in a while but not anymore since the number of guys high on drugs increased. They reopened in Ontario since July 16 but are now operating at limited capacity (100 patrons max.) and requesting Covid contact tracing information at check-in: Full Name, Phone number, etc. UGH! I really value my privacy so those are a couple more reasons to NOT GO.

I mean...yes and no, IMO. As I remember, they take your ID, put it in a box (so they have that info) so now the only next step is to give them a phone number, which cannot be cross-referenced against any info that they have. So you COULD give a fake number if you were worried about that i guess? If it is a public sign in page instead of a single form per person, that may bother some people who don't want others arriving to see that info.

Sidenote: 100 patrons max sounds like enough variety, yes? Only downside to a bathhouse now is that you are required to walk the dark halls with a mask, which IMO is ridiculous if you meet someone and end up in really close contact with that person. Nevermind the showers/hot tub that wont have you masked.

 

Anyone here visit steamworks in Toronto now that it's re-opened?