Ryan Murphy does it again - HOLLYWOOD.

[MscleLovr]

interviews with the cast in which they said that from the original scripts it seemed like the show would be a lot more explicit and raunchy

 

That’s very interesting @leeper

 

I found the interactions tame, almost as if Disney had made the show. In particular, the Cukor pool-party was a wasted scene where we actually saw very little male flesh but just had Jim Parsons as Henry Wilson describing the male beauties he (but not we) could see.

[+ WilliamM]

I watched some interviews with the cast in which they said that from the original scripts it seemed like the show would be a lot more explicit and raunchy ("Raunchy" being a direct quote). There was even talk of fitting a couple of the male cast members with prosthetic dicks. Ultimately, the show ended up being shot to be a lot tamer than originally suggested. (Unfortunately)

 

Tame is a bit of an understatement. The George Cukor scenes were more interesting in Hepburn and Tracey biographies.

[+ Charlie]

A woman friend of mine was enthusiastic about it at first, but she said she stopped watching because she got bored watching every episode play the same note: someone tried to maneuver someone else into getting screwed.

[TruthBTold]

I thought that Netflix kept it tame to that it could keep its straight audience watching but still a slight bit titalating I have always found that straight women will watch almost any story and might venture into a couple of naked good-looking built men making out (or more) if it comes up in a story. And they really do not care if the women do the same thing although they won't go looking for it. The straight men on the other hand would not want to watch male on male scenes (or at least they will not do so in front of other people) so there is no reason to put such scenes in a movie, even if these scenes really are what the movie is meant to be about. In this case, Netflix simply left such scenes out. This of course made it boring for anyone who probably would be watching a movie about that aspect of Hollywood.

[manTOman]

I think it started off well and fun and completely disintegrated by the end.

To quote @purplekow

The idea that some of the things done, particularly in the last episode would ever have happened is beyond belief.

It's one thing to re-imagine history and it's another to smear it like this. Many of the issues and rights in the series are still fought hard for today. From female bosses, to ethnic leads, to gay actors and to an overall acceptance of all of these not just by the public but by the industry itself, and portraying them in such a manner is doing the opposite of what I assume it intended to do. These battles are hard, and any individual fighting them has had to suffer and struggle to great lengths to even get to the point where Hollywood is today, and it's still nowhere near where it should be.

If you want to change history, at least make it believable. Saying that it would have been this easy to do all this then is first untrue, and second disgraceful to all those who fought so hard and failed along the way.

[+ E.T.Bass]

Somewhere there's another land

Different from this world below

Far more mercifully planned

Than the cruel place we know

Innocence and peace are there

All is good that is desired

Faces there are always fair

Love grows never old or tired

 

We shall never find that lovely land of might-have-been

I can never be your king, nor you can be my queen

Days may pass and years may pass and seas may lie between

We shall never find that lovely land of might-have-been

 

~ Ivor Novello

 

Robert Altman talked about how Novello's song was a reference to an imagined place, where gay men had happy endings.

 

That's my take on Hollywood, for the gay characters, the interracial couple, for black actor writers, and so on, all had their happy endings.

 

 

 

Complaining that the show got history wrong seems pretty obtuse to me.

 

My favorite parts of the show include Holland Taylor, Rob Reiner, and Patti Lupone.

[+ WilliamM]

Why were gas station Ernie and Henry Willson included as changed heros, rather than Cole Porter and Noel Coward?

Edited May 7, 2020 by WilliamM

[jeezifonly]

It was probably easier to enjoy this if you have no knowledge or connection whatsoever to the pictures, the stars, the fashions and the real life issues at stake during the 1940’s. A documentary it wasn’t. Murphy always gets good performances out of people, and knows good eye candy. Especially fun to watch Jim Parsons play someone so toxic.

p.s. Not enough hats used on the ladies. I recall that I never went to luncheons without one...?

[jeezifonly]

It was probably easier to enjoy this if you have no knowledge or connection whatsoever to the pictures, the stars, the fashions and the real life issues at stake during the 1940’s. A documentary it wasn’t. Murphy always gets good performances out of people, and knows good eye candy. Especially fun to watch Jim Parsons play someone so toxic.

p.s. Not enough hats used on the ladies. I recall that I never went to luncheons without one...?

[manTOman]

It was probably easier to enjoy this if you have no knowledge or connection whatsoever to the pictures, the stars, the fashions and the real life issues at stake during the 1940’s. A documentary it wasn’t. Murphy always gets good performances out of people, and knows good eye candy. Especially fun to watch Jim Parsons play someone so toxic.

p.s. Not enough hats used on the ladies. I recall that I never went to luncheons without one...?

 

Absolutely agree. It should have been completely fictional. And Murphy's ability to find eye candy is superb. I do wish his natural instincts to explore the sexual perversions of the era weren't so reined in.

 

Complaining that the show got history wrong seems pretty obtuse to me.

 

It's a silly thing to say when the show has a lot of actual historic characters. I believe you can give Rock Hudson a happy ending while still honoring his struggle and suffering. Saying that all he had to do is publicly hold hands with his boyfriend at the time when women, minorities and gays were strongly discriminated against, is ridiculous at best. The same goes for Hattie McDaniel, Anna May Wong, Dorothy Dandrige, Sidney Poitier, Whoopi Goldberg, Halle Barry, Jamie Foxx, Denzel Washington, Viola Davis and many other persons of color to ever attempt to make their mark in the industry. Oh if they only had the nerve to stand up for themselves and speak earlier.

 

I love Novello's poem, but without "the world below" and "this cruel place we know" there's really no need for "another land, mercifully panned".

 

I do get your point, and I want the same thing, mainly a more tolerant world where we can all coexist in a peaceful harmony. But I don't want it to be delusional.

[+ Keith30309]

Regarding the story line involving real people which diverged from reality - I saw it as being a little like Tarantino’s “Once Upon A Time... In Hollywood” (which gave an alternate ending to the story of Sharon Tate and the Manson group in 1969).

 

It’s a story about what might have been... of possibilities had the world been a kinder place.

 

What If a gay actor... even gay relationship HAD been possible in that period. What if an African American woman could have won a Best Actress Oscar... what if...

Then this is what it might have looked like.

[+ RJD]

The main character in the first episode is David Corenswet and he is good-looking to say the least.

 

I forgot that Corenswet had been in Murphy's earlier The Politician.

 

 

That’s where I saw him! I binge watched the first five episodes last night and he looked so familiar but couldn’t place him. He played River in The Politician. Very cute.

[+ g56whiz]

That’s where I saw him! I binge watched the first five episodes last night and he looked so familiar but couldn’t place him. He played River in The Politician. Very cute.

Well duh! That’s what IMDB.com is for.

[+ RJD]

Well duh! That’s what IMDB.com is for.

 

That’s my usual “go-to” for stuff like that. Don’t know why I didn’t last night.

[+ g56whiz]

That’s my usual “go-to” for stuff like that. Don’t know why I didn’t last night.

You’re forgiven. I just doubt that his role as River will stretch to the next season of The Politician. I think sexier in The Politician than he was in Hollywood. More eye candy.

[TruthBTold]

Regarding the story line involving real people which diverged from reality - I saw it as being a little like Tarantino’s “Once Upon A Time... In Hollywood” (which gave an alternate ending to the story of Sharon Tate and the Manson group in 1969).

 

It’s a story about what might have been... of possibilities had the world been a kinder place.

 

What If a gay actor... even gay relationship HAD been possible in that period. What if an African American woman could have won a Best Actress Oscar... what if...

Then this is what it might have looked like.

 

The only thing I don't agree with is that Murphy could have presented an actor who was given that opportunity and if fact ended up with the happy ending that was to be given him. However, I always have to remember that Rock Hudson (and others) chose to remain closeted. They chose to accept a lot of things like fame and money but at the same time have to give up love as his straight colleagues were allowed it. Also, Rock actually got to have love interests and accept fame and fortune. He was happy much of the time. So I guess I am torn. I guess I want for them what I think they should want. But at the same time maybe they did not care about it.

[manTOman]

Regarding the story line involving real people which diverged from reality - I saw it as being a little like Tarantino’s “Once Upon A Time... In Hollywood” (which gave an alternate ending to the story of Sharon Tate and the Manson group in 1969).

 

It’s a story about what might have been... of possibilities had the world been a kinder place.

 

What If a gay actor... even gay relationship HAD been possible in that period. What if an African American woman could have won a Best Actress Oscar... what if...

Then this is what it might have looked like.

 

I think I have a bit of trouble with all "what if" movies. At least with Tarantino's “Once Upon A Time... In Hollywood” and "Inglourious Basterds" I felt they were both true to the time and were well constructed believable stories with different outcomes of a single event. In Murphy's "Hollywood" too much change happens over night that for me it was more a sci-fi fantasy than a historical re-imagining. Having a movie made with a non-Caucasian lead for that time was enough to achieve in one season. If there were other seasons maybe Rock Hudson's coming out could have happened in the 2nd season. Maybe the consequences of those events could show how Hollywood would have progressed in a different direction had all this occurred, including Oscar wins and all the other accolades. As is, however, it all felt very trivial and undeserved.

 

One critic on Rotten tomatoes wrote "The "what if" of Ryan Murphy's "Hollywood" is defeated by the "why bother". And somehow that whole heartedly sums it up for me. But I get that I'm in a minority here. I needed to vent out my disappointment in it since I expected a lot more. Now I'm done. Thank you all for hearing me out.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I absolutely loved the series and hope they will deliver a second season. I see no problem in fictionalizing and imagining a Hollywood that never existed, from elements that did. They do not pretend to be a documentary.

Edited May 8, 2020 by latbear4blk

[MscleLovr]

I expected a lot more

 

Me too!

[+ Keith30309]

I think I have a bit of trouble with all "what if" movies. At least with Tarantino's “Once Upon A Time... In Hollywood” and "Inglourious Basterds" I felt they were both true to the time and were well constructed believable stories with different outcomes of a single event. In Murphy's "Hollywood" too much change happens over night that for me it was more a sci-fi fantasy than a historical re-imagining. Having a movie made with a non-Caucasian lead for that time was enough to achieve in one season. If there were other seasons maybe Rock Hudson's coming out could have happened in the 2nd season. Maybe the consequences of those events could show how Hollywood would have progressed in a different direction had all this occurred, including Oscar wins and all the other accolades. As is, however, it all felt very trivial and undeserved.

 

One critic on Rotten tomatoes wrote "The "what if" of Ryan Murphy's "Hollywood" is defeated by the "why bother". And somehow that whole heartedly sums it up for me. But I get that I'm in a minority here. I needed to vent out my disappointment in it since I expected a lot more. Now I'm done. Thank you all for hearing me out.

I completely understand what you’re saying.

 

But the way I perceive these stories is that the underlying theme is that Hollywood creates a place of “magical” possibilities. Movies like Star Wars or 2001 or Superman or The Shape of Water are all about What If.

 

Hollywood loves itself and the people in the business, like many, sometimes can be a bit narcissistic. I personally disliked La La Land but Hollywood loved it. So, all these cultural impossibilities in the last episodes exist within the context of suspended disbelief. I think that’s the idea anyway.

[cany10011]

Would prefer more skin and more salacious details of gay Hollywood

[+ g56whiz]

Would prefer more skin and more salacious details of gay Hollywood

Me too but in another movie.

[jjkrkwood]

Dylan McDermott was on The View today and just revealed that Ryan is developing a new show for HIM and Leslie Jordan to star in, since Dylan is the subject of Leslie's affection on Insta….. although he did not reveal the premise.... I am sure it will be something gay themed and campy hopefully?

[Phlmuscle]

Did anyone notice the porn stars there? I think I recognized Scott Riley in the theater scene in Episode 1. Also Johnny B and Nick Fits in the pool scene.Also Adrian Hart, and Hans Berlin.

[+ poolboy48220]

I absolutely loved the series and hope they will deliver a second season. I see no problem in fictionalizing and imagining a Hollywood that never existed, from elements that did. They do not pretend to be a documentary.

I'm with you. I had no problems with this not being historically accurate. I found it similar to Murphy's American Horror Story, in that despite all the awful stuff that happens throughout the series, the last episode always wraps everyone up with a happy ending.