Safe vs. bare

[+ sniper]

My doctor told me that a HIV Positive person who is on meds has about a 1 in 300,000 chance of infecting (with HIV) someone by barebacking.

That's assuming they are dutifully taking their pills every single day. The vast majority of people on any daily pill regimen miss some number of pills. Yeah,if they're missing one or two a month likely no change to that stat. But what if they're traveling and forgot their pills and it's been a week? How soon do you become infectious again?

This happens with ANY daily regimen, BTW not just HIV. I take a cholesterol med that I fully intend to take every day and probably on average once a week I forget. Given HIV isn't something where you immediately feel worse upon a skipped dose, it's unlikely that compliance is higher than average.

[+ sniper]

Injectable PReP may or may not be a game changer depending how promptly people come back for their booster shots. It's pretty easy for something to come up and make you miss an appointment and then it takes a week or two to reschedule...

[+ sniper]

Injectable PReP may or may not be a game changer depending how promptly people come back for their booster shots. It's pretty easy for something to come up and make you miss an appointment and then it takes a week or two to reschedule...

[FunInTheSun]

... for every 100 people on PreP who are intimate without a condom with an HIV+ detectable person, at least one person will contract the virus?

Virus transmission isn’t automatic. According to one source (https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/hiv-transmission-rates), bottoming for an hiv+ top results in transmission 138/10,000 times. Factor in the PrEP protection, and you get a vanishingly small risk of transmission.

[FunInTheSun]

... for every 100 people on PreP who are intimate without a condom with an HIV+ detectable person, at least one person will contract the virus?

Virus transmission isn’t automatic. According to one source (https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/hiv-transmission-rates), bottoming for an hiv+ top results in transmission 138/10,000 times. Factor in the PrEP protection, and you get a vanishingly small risk of transmission.

[CuriousByNature]

Virus transmission isn’t automatic. According to one source (https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/hiv-transmission-rates), bottoming for an hiv+ top results in transmission 138/10,000 times. Factor in the PrEP protection, and you get a vanishingly small risk of transmission.

Wow... I had no idea. I thought it was more like 50-50.

[CuriousByNature]

Virus transmission isn’t automatic. According to one source (https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/hiv-transmission-rates), bottoming for an hiv+ top results in transmission 138/10,000 times. Factor in the PrEP protection, and you get a vanishingly small risk of transmission.

Wow... I had no idea. I thought it was more like 50-50.

[Quincy_7]

Injectable PReP may or may not be a game changer depending how promptly people come back for their booster shots. It's pretty easy for something to come up and make you miss an appointment and then it takes a week or two to reschedule...

 

Huh, I may actually consider prep if its an injection I only need every 2 months. But even then I would still stick use condoms.

[Quincy_7]

Injectable PReP may or may not be a game changer depending how promptly people come back for their booster shots. It's pretty easy for something to come up and make you miss an appointment and then it takes a week or two to reschedule...

 

Huh, I may actually consider prep if its an injection I only need every 2 months. But even then I would still stick use condoms.

[+ keroscenefire]

Forgive my ignorance about probability math and my somewhat paranoid concern about illnesses, but when it says that PreP is up to 99% effective, doesn't that mean that for every 100 people on PreP who are intimate without a condom with an HIV+ detectable person, at least one person will contract the virus? I wonder what the probability figure is if PreP and a condom are used together? I know I sound completely OCD and I acknowledge life is full of risks, but these are things that pop into my mind ?

 

There have only been a handful of cases at all of "Prep failure," when someone taking Prep got infected with HIV. And even among those cases, there are a few odd circumstances, questionable adherence for example or underlying health condition. But there does genuinely appear to be some mutant HIV strains that are starting to circumvent the drugs, though they are extremely rare. And again, of the thousands of men taking prep there appears to only be like maybe a dozen confirmed cases of prep failure in the now 10-years+ that Prep has existed.

[+ keroscenefire]

Forgive my ignorance about probability math and my somewhat paranoid concern about illnesses, but when it says that PreP is up to 99% effective, doesn't that mean that for every 100 people on PreP who are intimate without a condom with an HIV+ detectable person, at least one person will contract the virus? I wonder what the probability figure is if PreP and a condom are used together? I know I sound completely OCD and I acknowledge life is full of risks, but these are things that pop into my mind ?

 

There have only been a handful of cases at all of "Prep failure," when someone taking Prep got infected with HIV. And even among those cases, there are a few odd circumstances, questionable adherence for example or underlying health condition. But there does genuinely appear to be some mutant HIV strains that are starting to circumvent the drugs, though they are extremely rare. And again, of the thousands of men taking prep there appears to only be like maybe a dozen confirmed cases of prep failure in the now 10-years+ that Prep has existed.

[+ tassojunior]

seems society is taking it to extremes.

maybe why OnlyFans, PornHub, and Chaterbate make such loot now:

 

[BuffaloKyle]

seems society is taking it to extremes.

maybe why OnlyFans, PornHub, and Chaterbate make such loot now:

 

 

I report zero here as well! ?

[sincitymix]

That's assuming they are dutifully taking their pills every single day. The vast majority of people on any daily pill regimen miss some number of pills. Yeah,if they're missing one or two a month likely no change to that stat. But what if they're traveling and forgot their pills and it's been a week? How soon do you become infectious again?

This happens with ANY daily regimen, BTW not just HIV. I take a cholesterol med that I fully intend to take every day and probably on average once a week I forget. Given HIV isn't something where you immediately feel worse upon a skipped dose, it's unlikely that compliance is higher than average.

The active ingredient stays in your system for up to 2 weeks ( could be less depending on the medication, one would have to read the medication insert (that super long page of tiny print ). However that is in no way saying you should skip a daily regimen based on that information. The protection of the active ingredient dilutes as the time passes so at the end of the 2 weeks its practically nil. If you miss a dose but take it immediately the next day, you would be ok because your still keeping the active ingredient in your body boosted.

[+ sniper]

Virus transmission isn’t automatic. According to one source (https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/hiv-transmission-rates), bottoming for an hiv+ top results in transmission 138/10,000 times. Factor in the PrEP protection, and you get a vanishingly small risk of transmission.

Wow... I had no idea. I thought it was more like 50-50.

Given most people have sex multiple times, a greater than 1% chance of transmission each time adds up pretty quickly. If you just did it once a week you would expect to be HIV+ by year-end.

[Jamie21]

As a provider, I go by my client’s request. Except that if I’m bottoming then I require a condom.

if you find a provider who insists on bb then avoid him. You’re the client, it should be your decision.

[mike carey]

Given most people have sex multiple times, a greater than 1% chance of transmission each time adds up pretty quickly. If you just did it once a week you would expect to be HIV+ by year-end.

I read the comments you quoted differently, and this is a comment on the statistics not the immunology, which despite diligent reading of Covid issues over the last year I am no expert in. If PrEP is 99% effective in preventing infections that would otherwise occur (which is different from 99% effective in preventing infection each time), and the probability of an infection during such intercourse is 138/10000 in the absence of PrEP, then the overall probability of infection each time is 1.38 times per 10,000 instances.

[CuriousByNature]

I read the comments you quoted differently, and this is a comment on the statistics not the immunology, which despite diligent reading of Covid issues over the last year I am no expert in. If PrEP is 99% effective in preventing infections that would otherwise occur (which is different from 99% effective in preventing infection each time), and the probability of an infection during such intercourse is 138/10000 in the absence of PrEP, then the overall probability of infection each time is 1.38 times per 10,000 instances.

That is how I understand it too.

[big dale]

I realize this thread is very old, but let's be clear... the title of this thread gets it ALL WRONG. The opposite of "safe" is not "bare", it is "unsafe". Bare still means unsafe. Even with PrEP.

 

PrEP will protect you from HIV, but it doesn't give you any protection against sexually transmitted infections (STIs). Using a condom is the best way to prevent other STIs such as gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, and hepatitis C.

[RuffLeatherPig]

I use condoms when being hired

[orville]

width=352pxhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ew8N20tW8AEhnjN?format=jpg&name=900x900[/img]

Female sex liberation and empowerment have been devastating for some young men.

Most women are money-driven, looking for the wealthiest/most attractive/taller men.

Then young guys without a good job, a car, or a house are quickly discarded.

Especially those in their teens or 20s can barely get some pussy frequently.

For some of them, a good bj is very rare, almost like a myth they've only heard of.

 

Before Covid, I could hook up with 2 different straight guys aged 18-25, per week.

They are so sexually frustrated that they wouldn't mind a gay guy helping them get their rocks off.

Some of them have even sent me messages to meet up again but I'm on Covid hiatus.

Just patiently waiting for my vaccine and then see how things go from there.

Edited March 22, 2021 by orville

[+ dupontversDC]

I realize this thread is very old, but let's be clear... the title of this thread gets it ALL WRONG. The opposite of "safe" is not "bare", it is "unsafe". Bare still means unsafe. Even with PrEP.

 

PrEP will protect you from HIV, but it doesn't give you any protection against sexually transmitted infections (STIs). Using a condom is the best way to prevent other STIs such as gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, and hepatitis C.

 

The BEST way to avoid these things is abstinence. So by your logic its UNSAFE to have sex with a condom as well, because there is risk.

 

Never leave your home, triple mask, double condom and don't do anything ever. You won't get anything. Certainly don't DRIVE somewhere to have sex, that's WAAYYYY more risky than sex on Prep.

[MisterMike]

The BEST way to avoid these things is abstinence. So by your logic its UNSAFE to have sex with a condom as well, because there is risk.

 

Never leave your home, triple mask, double condom and don't do anything ever. You won't get anything. Certainly don't DRIVE somewhere to have sex, that's WAAYYYY more risky than sex on Prep.

And you also believe wearing oven mitts means you're afraid of the stove, huh? So nice to be reminded that gays can be idiots, too.

[+ dupontversDC]

And you also believe wearing oven mitts means you're afraid of the stove, huh? So nice to be reminded that gays can be idiots, too.

 

Yes, stupid gays who ONLY think one brand of oven mitts work....only the one way and brand THEY like. Who is the idiot?

Edited March 22, 2021 by dupontversDC

[+ sniper]

I read the comments you quoted differently, and this is a comment on the statistics not the immunology, which despite diligent reading of Covid issues over the last year I am no expert in. If PrEP is 99% effective in preventing infections that would otherwise occur (which is different from 99% effective in preventing infection each time), and the probability of an infection during such intercourse is 138/10000 in the absence of PrEP, then the overall probability of infection each time is 1.38 times per 10,000 instances.

I wasn't talking about with PreP, I was talking about the 138/10,000 in the absence of PreP and the expressed surprise at that figure as "low." In the context of how often most people have sex that's not "low" at all, people just are really bad at probability estimation with multiple events.