Safe vs. bare

[former lurker]

So you use condoms for oral? Whats the difference? You can get most STD's orally as you can in your ass or dick.

 

Nope. HIV transmission is far more likely anally, and more likely for the bottom than the top.

[+ StLouisOct]

Nope. HIV transmission is far more likely anally, and more likely for the bottom than the top.

He said STDs, not just HIV. I assume you agree that one can get a disease via oral sex without a condom, yes?

[former lurker]

He said STDs, not just HIV. I assume you agree that one can get a disease via oral sex without a condom, yes?

 

That depends on whether you swallow, spit or do neither. As the BJ giver, you have greater control over what enters you orally than anally. Also, I doubt that oral transmission is as likely as anal transmission for a score of STDs, unless you have open sores in your mouth, bleeding gums, etc. But I'm not a physician.

[MassageAdam]

That depends on whether you swallow, spit or do neither. As the BJ giver, you have greater control over what enters you orally than anally. Also, I doubt that oral transmission is as likely as anal transmission for a score of STDs, unless you have open sores in your mouth, bleeding gums, etc. But I'm not a physician.

not totally correct... Herpes is skin to skin... Syphillis can be transmitted skin to skin... sooooo those throwing stones about BB sex anally such look at their own actions about oral sex and then decide if they really want to throw stones about people having anal sex bareback....

and PS, I got chlamydia in the throat without anyone ejaculating in me mouth... so that's not a 100% valid point.

[MassageAdam]

He said STDs, not just HIV. I assume you agree that one can get a disease via oral sex without a condom, yes?

correct, I was talking all STD's. I worked as a RN in a STD clinic for awhile... so I am very familiar with how people get them and don't get them.. In fact I had more people diagnosed with Gonorrhea of the throat then of the ass... So you people who like to call out people who have anal sex without condoms better be telling me they are having oral sex with condoms... Or I just shake my head at ya..

[marylander1940]

correct, I was talking all STD's. I worked as a RN in a STD clinic for awhile... so I am very familiar with how people get them and don't get them.. In fact I had more people diagnosed with Gonorrhea of the throat then of the ass... So you people who like to call out people who have anal sex without condoms better be telling me they are having oral sex with condoms... Or I just shake my head at ya..

 

There's a big difference between exposing yourself to HIV compared to other minor diseases.

[former lurker]

not totally correct... Herpes is skin to skin... Syphillis can be transmitted skin to skin... sooooo those throwing stones about BB sex anally such look at their own actions about oral sex and then decide if they really want to throw stones about people having anal sex bareback....

and PS, I got chlamydia in the throat without anyone ejaculating in me mouth... so that's not a 100% valid point.

 

I'm not throwing stones, nor has anyone else. You seem to have an agenda. You injected the issue of oral sex into the discussion as a means of suggesting hypocrisy on the part of people who choose not to have bareback anal sex.

 

My view is we are each responsible for our own health, and to set the level of risk we are comfortable taking. If that includes having bareback sex that is up to the individual. What I choose to do or not do is for me to decide. In fact, when you say others "should look at their own actions about oral sex", you seem to be the own throwing stones. You don't need anyone else's validation for your own choices, and neither do any of us need yours.

 

To the extent that you have provided useful information about the transmission of STDs, you are being helpful. So thank you for that.

[RomanticRick]

Notwithstanding certain outliers, I wouldn't call barebacking an obsession, although I know some guys may have something akin to a fetish for it. There are plenty of fetishes that I don't understand, and which I might find to engender too great of a risk to physical or mental health/safety, so I won't judge those guys who happen to like this particular one.

 

PrEP doesn't offer protection against other STIs, but then again, no safer sex practice offers 100% protection against any STI in particular, much less all of them. That being said, PrEP's protection rate against HIV, if used consistently and correctly, is stunningly high (up to 99% effective, if memory serves), well exceeding that of condom usage. For some folks, taking one pill a day is easier to do on a consistent basis than using a condom for every sexual episode. If someone is most concerned about HIV, then it's far from irrational to choose to bareback if the chance of getting another STI is well within his tolerance level, even if that's not the choice some of us would make.

 

I've said this before, but I recall past discussions on this board when quite a few members pilloried those escorts who refused to go bare for oral sex. Obviously, for those members, unprotected oral sex was within their risk tolerance levels, despite the fact that it's low risk for HIV transmission, but not so much for other STIs that either require mere skin-to-skin contact, or stem from viruses or bacteria which are less vulnerable to the elements. (HIV doesn't survive long outside of bodily fluids, making it relatively less than ideal, at least as far as pathogens go). In short, oral sex exposes us to all kinds of STIs, like chlamydia, herpes, gonorrhea, warts, etc. Heck, rimming and even kissing can expose us to all of that and more (hello, mononucleosis, influenza, and the common cold). Yet, we'd call folks morons for allowing a "raw cock" inside one orifice, but those who allow the same inside another orifice are just fine?

 

None of us can ever truly know our partners' sexual conduct and adherence to safer sex practices, past or present. But if one is on PrEP and adherent h/she must get regular STI screenings (supposed to be every 3 months at minimum) in order to qualify for the prescription renewal. So, that person is more likely than your average random sex partner to have other STIs detected early and treated/eliminated. There's nothing unreasonable about incorporating that into one's risk tolerance calculus, even if, again, some of us might choose a different strategy.

 

For sex workers, using PrEP as a supplement to, or even as the primary method of, their safer sex practices (given its very high rate of effectiveness) is just one of several legitimate and responsible ways to navigate the potential hazards of their profession. The same goes for clients. It'd be wonderful if we could try to understand and respect one another's viewpoints and lived experiences without resorting to pejoratives or insulting memes.

Great point so eloquently put, that all anti-barebackers seem to have missed. With PrEP, STD risk for anal is the same as that of oral. No more, no less.

Edited November 17, 2019 by RomanticRick

[RomanticRick]

Unfortunately BB increases the chances of catching those diseases which not always have symptoms.

 

If we had kept using condoms when HIV became survivable with medicines it would be gone now, unfortunately it's still among us because of our own behavior.

What you say is true!

On a parallel note, sadly, a dear friend of mine was recently diagnosed as positive. He had been on PrEP, but had stopped in order to start a course of preventive anti-malarial drugs because he was going to visit South America. Unfortunately, he lost the PrEP protection after stopping the medicine and was'nt watchful about being safe during the period without the PrEP protection.

Edited November 17, 2019 by RomanticRick

[hypothetically]

These threads always turn into 5+ pages of PrEP advocate vs. the condom user; there is no right or wrong. Your body, your prerogative.

 

And the topic is always about providers who do not wish to use condoms, which I don't think is fair because about 80% of clients who contact me, us, escorts, want to play bare, and that is not specific to any one city. It is in every city. I'm thrilled to hear everyone here still values condom-use but the most active and vocal users on this forum, while lovely, are not representative of the "common" client.

[marylander1940]

What you say is true!

On a parallel note, sadly, a dear friend of mine was recently diagnosed as positive. He had been on PrEP, but had stopped in order to start a course of preventive anti-malarial drugs because he was going to visit South America. Unfortunately, he lost the PrEP protection after stopping the medicine and was'nt watchful about being safe during the period without the PrEP protection.

 

I'm sorry to hear that! Hopefully all new advances will be helpful to him and others in similar situations.

 

These threads always turn into 5+ pages of PrEP advocate vs. the condom user; there is no right or wrong. Your body, your prerogative.

 

And the topic is always about providers who do not wish to use condoms, which I don't think is fair because about 80% of clients who contact me, us, escorts, want to play bare, and that is not specific to any one city. It is in every city. I'm thrilled to hear everyone here still values condom-use but the most active and vocal users on this forum, while lovely, are not representative of the "common" client.

 

I do know about folks who have "safe only" in their profiles and constantly do exceptions. Maybe the do it because of the chemistry is right or as posted before there's no other way for them to keep it hard while wearing a condom.

Edited November 17, 2019 by marylander1940

[MassageAdam]

I'm not throwing stones, nor has anyone else. You seem to have an agenda. You injected the issue of oral sex into the discussion as a means of suggesting hypocrisy on the part of people who choose not to have bareback anal sex.

 

My view is we are each responsible for our own health, and to set the level of risk we are comfortable taking. If that includes having bareback sex that is up to the individual. What I choose to do or not do is for me to decide. In fact, when you say others "should look at their own actions about oral sex", you seem to be the own throwing stones. You don't need anyone else's validation for your own choices, and neither do any of us need yours.

 

To the extent that you have provided useful information about the transmission of STDs, you are being helpful. So thank you for that.

NYCMan was calling people morons who don't use condoms... to me that is throwing stones. I don't care what anyone does, I do like to point out when people are being hypocrites and make them think that they need to look at their own behavior before name calling.

[hypothetically]

I prefer to use condoms. I’ve noticed escorts lately blame condoms as an excuse for not being able to stay rock hard. “It’s so much easier bare.”

 

PLOT TWIST: Clients do the same.

[former lurker]

PLOT TWIST: Clients do the same.

 

No doubt. That sucks, and not in a good way. No one should be pressured or tricked to do something they are not comfortable doing.

[+ quoththeraven]

There's a big difference between exposing yourself to HIV compared to other minor diseases.

Except not all of those other STDs are minor. Hepatitis, for example, is a big pain to treat, and some treatments are themselves disabling.

[adventurous old guy]

These threads always turn into 5+ pages of PrEP advocate vs. the condom user; there is no right or wrong. Your body, your prerogative.

 

And the topic is always about providers who do not wish to use condoms, which I don't think is fair because about 80% of clients who contact me, us, escorts, want to play bare, and that is not specific to any one city. It is in every city. I'm thrilled to hear everyone here still values condom-use but the most active and vocal users on this forum, while lovely, are not representative of the "common" client.

I hire at least monthly, and can think of only once in the last two years where my date asked me to wear a condom. I've often been encouraged not to, and in those conversations -- since my preference is to top -- a common rationale I hear is that I'm not the one at risk. So boy, there's a lot of misinformation and rationalization.

 

Agree, that this debate has shown up here in quite a few threads However, I appreciate them as a reminder of the risks. That CDC vid on the clap certainly got my attention.

[LivingnLA]

Life contains risks. Being a mature responsible adult means educating yourself about those risks, learning how to mitigate them, and living your life the way you want without being a dick about it. If you are having sex with someone else, it is your ethical responsibility to be honest just as it's their responsibility to be honest with you too. There are highly resistant strains of all major STIs and infection rates are increasing fast for many STIs because people are not using condoms for oral, anal, and vaginal sex with strangers.

 

Men who have sex with men are a high risk demographic. Escorts and porn stars are a high risk demographic. Why? Because both tend to have large numbers of different sexual partners and they often engage in condomless sexual contact.

 

The safest sex we are aware of currently involves the proper use of condoms, consistent daily PrEP, and appropriate vaccines. Anything less is going to be riskier. If you decide to live a riskier life, that's your choice. Know the risks. Educate yourself. Get testing regularly. Be a man and be responsible for your choices.

[DallasClient]

I will add that I find it difficult to find escorts willing to go bare in Las Vegas and London. You can find them, but they may not be ones at the top of your list. I have never had an escort push for bare but maybe that's because I asked before we meet.

[adventurous old guy]

I will add that I find it difficult to find escorts willing to go bare in Las Vegas and London. You can find them, but they may not be ones at the top of your list. I have never had an escort push for bare but maybe that's because I asked before we meet.

Good practice wise words. I do that too. Interestingly, the provider who proactively insisted on a condom before I did was European.

[newhudson]

Good practice wise words. I do that too. Interestingly, the provider who proactively insisted on a condom before I did was European.

That's because PREP isn't widely known and covered like it is in the US

[former lurker]

Life contains risks. Being a mature responsible adult means educating yourself about those risks, learning how to mitigate them, and living your life the way you want without being a dick about it. If you are having sex with someone else, it is your ethical responsibility to be honest just as it's their responsibility to be honest with you too. There are highly resistant strains of all major STIs and infection rates are increasing fast for many STIs because people are not using condoms for oral, anal, and vaginal sex with strangers.

 

Men who have sex with men are a high risk demographic. Escorts and porn stars are a high risk demographic. Why? Because both tend to have large numbers of different sexual partners and they often engage in condomless sexual contact.

 

The safest sex we are aware of currently involves the proper use of condoms, consistent daily PrEP, and appropriate vaccines. Anything less is going to be riskier. If you decide to live a riskier life, that's your choice. Know the risks. Educate yourself. Get testing regularly. Be a man and be responsible for your choices.

 

Very well stated.

[marylander1940]

I hire at least monthly, and can think of only once in the last two years where my date asked me to wear a condom. I've often been encouraged not to, and in those conversations -- since my preference is to top -- a common rationale I hear is that I'm not the one at risk. So boy, there's a lot of misinformation and rationalization.

 

Agree, that this debate has shown up here in quite a few threads However, I appreciate them as a reminder of the risks. That CDC vid on the clap certainly got my attention.

 

PrEP has certainly changed the rules of the game, condoms are not 100% mandatory like they were before yet as @LivingnLA pointed life always has risks involved in all of our actions.

 

it breaks my heart to think of so many guys I know who before PrEP played the Russian roulette of BB and got infected with a preventable disease.

[+ Pensant]

I’m a big role-play fan, which means anal isn’t always a required part of the session, but I certainly understand the allure of BB.

[RomanticRick]

I will add that I find it difficult to find escorts willing to go bare in Las Vegas and London. You can find them, but they may not be ones at the top of your list. I have never had an escort push for bare but maybe that's because I asked before we meet.

Not true of London. The number of those who would say no to bareback is a minority, unless he were a visiting European.

[leanbtm]

Except not all of those other STDs are minor. Hepatitis, for example, is a big pain to treat, and some treatments are themselves disabling.

 

Also hpv, easily transmitted even with condoms, can lead to anal cancer. Have had a few anal Pap smears, not pleasant , but better to know