DWnyc

I fully agree. I think the biggest obstacle to anything other than a provider-client relationship would be having to start from almost zero on “ normal” tjings despite feeling very close in others. And much of that supposed closeness is likely one sided and based on an act. And I suspect there would be a world of difference between many providers and clients in their social / economic status that would for starters complicate much interaction that went beyond 1-on-1.

Montreal and Quebec in general have some of the most pro tenant laws in North America, so it’s difficult for landlords to clear out tenants even if they are delinquent in rent. Some of the clubs (straight and cabaret as well) in Montreal occupy prime downtown real estate but tenants are paying rents locked in 20-30 years ago. So there are allegations …

Anyone playing should know their status and given what’s available to us now, after stopping to say a word of thanks to all who made this possible for us, if they want to play raw, should either be on PREP or ART to stay undetectable. That way someone else’s status matters less. Given how many DL men visit providers and that PREP use let alone status awareness through regular testing is so low in this segment, I can see why a provider disclosing status and medication accurately is important for some clients. It is still ridiculous - they shouldn’t be risking their health (and that of others in their life) because of their fear of discovery and they should not be relying on a providers self declaration for peace of mind. I know of several providers who are not truthful on prep use as well as on their actual status. They have always somehow volunteered the information including with a different profile on hookup sites. I understand (and some have shared) some of their reasoning but I think it’s better to leave out a known misrepresentation rather than to lie on something that is still a relevant issue for many (even though it shouldn’t be given what is available). And to be clear this isn’t just about providers it’s about anyone including on hookup sites.

Because many providers do actually like to negotiate or vary their pricing (despite how many posture on here) depending on their dealflow, and because many won’t want to leave a public written trail particularly in problematic jurisdictions.

A regular provider I saw shortly before Christmas dropped hints about joining my plans when it came up - eg important time for him but he’d be alone far away from anyone, I was one of few clients he considered a friend (this startled me a little). I thought about it all through our session (and it was distracting!) and I realized a “friend” would be welcome at my Christmas dinner table, and I would want them to be themselves when off the clock (and not give them a list of things not to say or lie about). I wasn’t sure I could deal with that in the presence of my friends and family members. That year I had a colleague from work join with a similar situation of being far from family and they weren’t actually a close friend but it felt natural in a way the provider attending didn’t. But each to their own - others may have dealt with this differently.

And of course if he wants to take a break from doing this temporarily or permanently he may not want to keep the appointment anyway

If he knew his profile was expiring )it may have been planned) will likely have kept your details

Make your own rules - what applies for others doesn’t necessarily do so for you. And no reason why a happy and consensual equilibrium can’t evolve whatever one falls it. Just try to be aware if someone is taking advantage / manipulating you, remembering the whole provider client relationship does likely involve - at the heart of the core activity - some fabrication / exaggeration of feelings. When I see clients post on here about unrequited feelings or near obsession with a provider I do worry about if they are easy prey.

I’ll add: - lack of respect for the provider, perhaps because of the stigma and making an assumption that the provider is desperate for money, from a lower social / economic class etc. If plans change or the potential client was never serious, why bother letting someone know if you don’t respect them (providers sometimes do this to clients as well and likely with reciprocal lack of respect - I don’t have a sense of which “side” does it more) - paranoia about being arrested, discovered etc - perhaps the client for a bad feeling about the provider while setting up the appointment in the back and forth - tone, rudeness etc … doesn’t justify canceling without notice but it could influence whether seeing it through I disageee with the framing of the last point in your post. Being Unable to afford a provider doesn’t make someone a loser - they just shouldn’t play in this game. Standing up a professional is what makes them a loser.

I think the maximum notice I’ve given anyone is a day, and even then I’ve reconfirmed on the actual day as I’ve been burnt on providers forgetting (sometimes I believe them sometimes I don’t) or being late. For me it’s often a last minute decision and that’s worked fine - when I reach out to folks whether known or unknown and ask if they’re available later that day they may say yes, no, or not reply and not replying may have them refusing to engage in that timeframe. But enough will in my geography and it’s never been a problem. I wouldn’t want to book more out than that as knowing myself I may change my mind, work or other social things could come up etc and I’d hate to mess with a providers schedule and I’d be loathe to pay for a cancelation. More often than not I’ve been told by providers - contact me only if you’re serious about meeting … now … and I’ve incorporated that into my comms / planning.

Seems like at least one side will feel they got screwed …

But the lawyers would still expect to get paid

I personally don’t understand folks prepared to have unprotected penetrative sex (regardless of prep - which doesn’t protect you from basic mess let alone other stuff) but can’t kiss. As with online hookups, I assume it’s because they're not attracted to the other person, and would in other circumstances regardless of “I don’t kiss” posturing. A “straight” provider who says explicitly he doesn’t kiss on his profile told me - he can actually kiss guys, as to him if he closes his eyes it could be anyone - just like a hole could be male or female to him so he can perform either way - (kind of ridiculous unless his female partners have a lot of facial hair) - but he says the no kissing expectation saves him from a lot of emotional stress. He’ll only kiss if he finds the client attractive. I did ask him if everything was so interchangeable and if there was a spectrum where some guys were attractive, why was he so adamantly “straight” …

For some providers - some, not all - for a bunch of reasons that have come up on here in the past - making some clients feel bad is part of how they get through the experience. Like traffic police and customs. And of course some clients do the same to providers, reminding them of the direction the money flows. So there’s not a need for them to learn the skill of hiding these feelings, and they won’t say no if you’re still prepared to pay for the experience - it’s part of the game of life. Move on if it bothers you. And be thankful for the providers who, however unprofessional, don’t want anything to do with you.

This all ceases to be cute after the age of 13 when it becomes predatory and delusional (no offense meant). Might you have exhibited some behavior that scared off the provider in your outreach?

You are generous with your time, then. I can’t see that being offered out here.

That and some not on insurance get their treatment from generics overseas or online etc with less strict testing or prescription requirements

I fall on the cynical side because many conversations I’ve tried to have on this with providers have been met with eye rolls. Not all providers -but enough. I’ve also found at least 6 providers in my geography (3 I’ve met, 3 i haven’t) have not been truthful (either on the site or in conversations) about some health status info. Some others in New York on this forum will have had this experience (as we have discussed it) and I assume this happens elsewhere as well. So I take the perspective that I’ll be responsible for myself, offer discussion on my health (honestly it’s rarely been taken up) and would contact a provider just like any other partner if I needed to in event of any news. @ICTJOCK curious, did you charge for the additional meeting time for the pre session discussion? I’ve had at least 2 providers suggest a quick phone call to discuss anything beforehand (which could and did include health / safety issues but weren’t framed exclusively as such) but my hunch is even if I had the time for a pre meeting they would typically not want this unless it was added to the total session times.

Yup - recognized someone from London on the New York sniffies page - sensed something was up when his tone was so off from the guy I had met - so checked with him and he filed a complaint (from Paris!) but in the time that it took for this, the fake profile asked me for 50% down on fees on cash app (even though I hadn’t said i wanted to meet)

I see him on dating / hook up apps all the time - not sure if as a means to get clients or if really for personal meets

I’ve lost track of how many providers have contacted me after I either didn’t engage them (for the first time) or if they’re regulars they haven’t heard from me in a while … with an offer of a huge discount (50% off type). And often it’s tied to - I’m leaving town or about to go on vacation or it’s the end of the month etc some get very defensive on platforms like this - these must obviously be 2nd tier providers etc - but no I don’t think that’s the case. Some just realize that often something is better than nothing.

This is definitely a new thing for those of us who were adults before say 2010 but the rules have evolved. I still remember the rotary phone and my mother eavesdropping on my calls from not too far away.

All of the above … and perhaps reserving topping or bottoming for “special” experiences / people - like kissing for some people

I doubt anyone in the country blames providers for inflation or that they are coordinating a boycott of the sector to protest. Any move to zero engagement is likely for a price that is considered too expensive relative to a clients perception of market value and perhaps their own cash flow give tougher times.

It’s not their job to understand … you can quote whatever you want for whatever reason - and they can choose to engage you or not