DWnyc

Agreed. However there is difference in the association with exclusion when these identities are proudly stated. This is why most US colleges will have an African American or Hispanic or Asian etc student club but not one for whites, primarily because there is no need when the entire campus, not to mention the country, is open to them and when no effort is needed to find demographic peers. To paraphrase Matt Damon’s character in The Good Shepherd, “the rest of you are just visiting”. Now I don’t believe that … America is perhaps the greatest example of constantly welcoming and empowering incredible diversity, but it neatly sums up a lot of attitudes and realities. And that’s why it matters how and why difference and preference is expressed.

Jamie22 for the next 12 months

And this is a key point and I’m glad you caveated your opening comment implying no problem with photos. At least you have the empathy and self awareness to understand and acknowledge this issue. Many, even on this forum, with this issue discussed repeatedly, can’t or won’t. I similarly realize I am entitled in many ways and have never had a problem seeing providers I wanted to. However, I have heard stories that no longer surprise me about people I have hired and felt warmly about treating others I know very differently (often after I suggested the choice). But with that privilege we should remember we may need professional standards applied to all equally, in our own cases, at some point. We may get sick, elderly (never!), out of shape and so forth. It’s why the principle rather than our personal experiences should dictate our views.

Let’s not get carried away though by the assumption that clients are mostly outcasts, vulnerable, socially excluded or unable to find intimacy physical or otherwise. There can be many reasons including leisure, expedience, seeking variety … not unlike eating out while you can also prepare a meal at home or going on vacation when you can easily stay home. Likewise some providers should not think of themselves as the potential savior of these wretched outliers.

I typically wouldn’t hire someone I met on those sites as when I’m on there it’s for a different type of interaction. A conversation I assume is non transactional that turns transactional would irritate me. When I recognize someone from their RM profile or if someone reveals themselves as a provider, I either don’t approach them or end the interaction. Everything in its proper place. Sites like RM are quite exhaustive and if I’m looking for that service I’ll go there. I’d worry if it was a provider on one of the dating apps who I hadn’t seen anywhere else or couldn’t diligence (including on here) which is often the case for “fly by night” types vs the true professionals. I have heard from several providers, though, that they get many clients from the dating sites. So of course it happens.

Another trait of the best providers is being somewhat of a psychologist and understanding where the demand for their services comes from.

I’ve seen lots of “read between the lines” language but rarely open criteria listed. I think some people who still hire such folks don’t notice or worse don’t care, or even more worrying, see themselves as having passed strict criteria gaining elite admission while others didn’t.

Good for you. And if that’s the, case I hope and assume you would also feel the same way if it was proven 100% that a provider had prejudice (not just on ethnicity, but on say weight or age or a disability etc) but not listed on their profile. I’m in favor of “outing” such providers as I believe there needs to be a corrective mechanism to prevent this behavior, but of course its next to impossible to prove conclusively. For all those (including some posters on this forum) who say such preferences are a right or understandable, as I always say, great, let providers then have the balls to post it publicly. Legally they’ll get in trouble to the extent the industry is legal anywhere. But more importantly it will be distasteful (rightly so) to significant numbers of potential clients who may choose not to hire based on that even if not personally affected.

As several providers have themselves said on here, true professionals don’t require for any legitimate scenario that can’t be dealt with otherwise (eg security). Part of being the true professional is to be able to service pretty much anyone based on their appearance or demographic. Those who want to parachute into the industry monetizing their ability to be around people they either find attractive or can tolerate, while being unable or unwilling to provide service to the others, have no business being considered alongside the professionals.

And let hiring platforms be for hiring and not hooking up. And then half the discussions on this forum might be redundant!

No no no …! I was never going to pay him, so that was zero probability. I was just joking in reply to his bait and switch (rather than blocking or keeping quiet as I usually do in those situations) really saying (if he could read between the lines) that he’s got the “I have no other option right now” dynamic wrong. I thought it was funny, and relevant to the subject we’ve discussed on here of real professionals vs those just monetizing their hookups. I’ve saved the text exchange for my password protected amusement. Every 20 seconds he was saying things like “how much? … I really need to get off … I can bring a friend would that make a difference” all while I was chuckling and not responding. And wondering if he was a cop (and if so a bad one). Because if he could really bring a friend they could take care of each other! It’s only newsworthy because of the 180 degree switch in a matter of minutes. “Are you Generous” or “I am generous” is not uncommon to hear on these apps, and I mean no disrespect to anyone particularly given the primary subject matter of this forum 😊

Just had an exchange with a provider about a potential first booking who said out of nowhere “typically I ask for a pic before confirming but you sound hot”. This is in response to what has become a standard question from me “is there anything else I can tell you at this stage?” Based on prior disagreements and “misunderstandings” on all sorts of issues. The faux compliment doesn’t work for me and I’m actually quite irritated at the implication.

Isn’t “tea” also one of the classes word for a meal as a whole?

Don’t assume though that those having more conversations are having more fun. In the shallow fickle jarring world of online apps that also means more blocks, ghosting, rudeness when things don’t go someone’s way etc. If this issue is promoting you to explore hiring more, just have your antenna up for this very issue. I’ve heard from PoC friends that every so often they feel bullied by providers on this issue, probably because they reveal their vulnerability on the subject too much. Most providers are great, and you won’t have to worry about this, but pay attention to the discussions on here on eg asking for photos, negotiating on price, top service vs being rushed out the door etc and how that can differ for some.

Every so often I’ll see on the online apps someone I’m chatting with suddenly switch to “ok this is what it will cost you” mode. Typically I block or stop engaging at that point (because I’m irritated by the bait and switch). Had a bizarre experience the other day when after exchanging pics, discussing what might occur, where we were located etc, he suddenly pulled the $ card. I was feeling a bit cheeky, and I replied, “I was about to say the same thing to you!”. Risky as it could have gotten me thrown off I guess. The other party went quiet … but then came back a few mins later with “how much? I’m so horny, I’ll pay you …”. . Cop? Or horny dude who went from thinking he could monetize his libido to the other extreme?

“He got me sloshed” … also has some worrying implications.

We clearly have a fundamental difference in how we view the world and that’s ok, and I’ll likely stop engaging on this since we’re going around in circles talking past each other. Personally I don’t negotiate in this business, and I’ve even gone as far as to pay extra when asked by providers for all sorts of nonsense after a price has been fixed. But I don’t think those who try are doing anything unethical / immoral etc / and the provider has every right to shut down a negotiation conversation at any point in the discussion (including right at the start) so where’s the harm to anyone here? I’ll add at likely my last comment in this thread: I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve had an exchange with a provider on asking their rate, receiving an answer, I thank them and say sorry not for me and assume that’s the end of the conversation, and then they come back volunteering a counteroffer I never asked for. That’s totally cool, but I don’t accept that they only have the right to discuss price and clients don’t.

And I would say what you did here was worse than negotiating for £20 reduction (even if unintentional) and what the provider did was effectively a negotiation (to him it’s the same thing, £20 less than his published price) and he wouldn’t have done that if it was not feasible, showing you a degree of flexibility. Im not suggesting you then need to bargain him down in the future based on this, and maybe you (like me) in this situation would send him the balance later or add to a subsequent booking. Just saying nothing is fixed. This framework of escorting is unique, sole providers have special price fixing privilege (in the market as a whole) etc doesn’t make sense to me when viewing through a market / business lens. Yes they can set their own prices, and yes clients can walk away if they can’t or won’t pay the published price, but I don’t understand what is so offensive about proposing an alternative arrangement that the provider has no obligation to accept or even consider, that may result in some (as opposed to zero) revenue from a booking that is actually made (vs not made).

There are several standards in negotiation theory, classes, books etc One is you should always be negotiating whether for a hot dog or a multimillion dollar contract. As you need to always be on alert to see where there may be flexibility so you need this trait internalized. Another is, don’t assume things aren’t negotiable as almost everything is. I’ve paid “not published” prices for things at my corner shop (deli) many times 😊 It doesn’t make me an ass, since I’m not imposing the paid price and it’s with mutual ageeement which there wouldn’t be if it caused pain for either party. Im not bargaining every time I buy a can of Coke, but if I’m buying out his entire supply of coke for a dinner party (which I’ve done) there may be a conversation (and it’s rare he’s said “sorry I can’t do that”). The owner gets my loyalty and maybe that makes him agreeable to sensible proposals since there are 5 other identical stores within walking distance of my residence.

Yes, would allow those who don’t want to negotiate (and I actually fall into that category myself) to follow that pricing but I think those wanting to negotiate would still try. And I think many of those would be successful.

Wait … you discuss your hobby with your coworker? 🥳

Partly because of successive rounds of layoffs in prior years And the economy aside that’s partly because of other business models (eg online, outsourcing) decimating theirs while they stubbornly ignored market trends and set their prices and made business models because they thought they could. Market trends …ah yes, that factor in this topic discussion that several seem to ignore while growling at those referring to it for the escorting industry and pricing,

They can’t, legally, in the US And it’s not uncommon for premium products (using your framework) to be marketed as “ask for further details …” both as discussing $ around such products can be seen as distasteful and precisely because there is no set price.

You’re comparing an oligopoly led by a few multibillion dollar companies with individual escorts?

I disagree that it doesn’t exist in every environment, and again “haggling” is the wrong word - it’s negotiating. You’ve not said anything to back up your statement other than said it’s your opinion, which you’re entitled to, but that alone doesn’t make the point. What makes escorting stand out?