DWnyc

No it’s not. That issue of deposits has loaded into it a host of other factors such as disclosure of the clients identity and prepayment for service that may not end up being delivered as promised or at all with no recourse, and plenty of clients have horror stories of provider bad behavior on these issues. You just described the typical American open house. Happens all the time, my friend. Its not a question of if I like it or not; it’s a recognized part of the sales process. You use the word “respect” quite a lot. If you really find this process disrespectful (and capitalism can seem that way, depending on how one fares out of it), there are likely ways you can take more control. If you’re really not prepared to have a discussion on price (though now you’ve now more than once said you basically are …), and are particularly sensitive to the issue of your rates being available and people needing to see that material before contacting you, how about then starting with “before we discuss anything further I’d like to confirm you’ve been on my website and are comfortable on the pricing there. Are you?”. If they say no, and that’s a problem for you, and the disrespect you feel outweighs a salesperson’s instinct for any meaningful net revenue that may arise, end the conversation there and then. The time spent would be less than venting and reliving the experience to this degree.

All I take away from your asking him, how much he can afford, and what I presume most people would take away, is that your rates aren’t actually sacrosanct. And if you offer discounts as you’ve said elsewhere, or if you say you were willing to hear him out to see if his counter offer was lower than something you’d be willing to accept (implies you would actually accept something lower price than your published rate) why shouldn’t someone try to have a conversation about price?

No response doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t know what he wants. So when you asked him “how much are you looking to afford” doesn’t that imply you’re open to a price reduction / negotiation? Unless you were looking for a debate with him on why he’s wrong …?

Agreed in principle with your post (remembering RM can’t list rates in the US) but I also have to say if I see “rates are non-negotiable” in this context, I’m unlikely to believe it, just given how much I’ve seen providers try to negotiate with me when I haven’t event tried myself. It suggests to me that I actually leave things on the table because I don’t negotiate in this context. Im talking of providers as a whole group and not anyone specific. ”And that’s my final word on the subject …” (until the next time).

Surely anyone can say whatever they want to you … but it shouldn’t affect you if you’re comfortable with your position and have the data and experience to back it up. One or two or three … clients telling you you’re too expensive shouldn't be a problem if you have at least as many examples where clients have paid what you’re asking and have validation that the market tolerates that. He can say you’re fat, ugly and stupid … but that doesn’t make it true Even if his only goal was to mess with you … why not just walk away and move on?

Even if a rate is posted it shouldn’t be unexpected that a potential client asks and it’s not always the case they haven’t gone through available info. Maybe it differs by geography and type of provider, but anecdotally, I would say without what is called haggling, and my own style is never negotiate in this field just take it or leave it, at least a third of the time I end up paying a different rate because something comes up in the back and forth before confirming and sometimes it’s actually higher. Annoying for the provider for me to ask rate or my having crossed a red line in doing so? It’s not a red line for every provider, so if it is for you, move on. I’ve had providers tell me they knew I was serious as I started with that question rather than what might trigger a warning for sexting etc. Lastly, is it really the end of the world if a potential client hasn’t read the available material including the rate piece? Could be all sorts of reasons: wasn’t aware of it, read part of it but missed the price part or wanted clarification etc. Or wonders if that’s the rate today. I don’t think I’ve ever reached out to a provider knowing a rate (I’m in the US) but I can see myself wondering, particularly on a website or something that maybe poorly designed, full of typos, bad grammar etc whether the rate is correct or out of date (or consistent, in that the provider honors what is there in writing … on many things they do not). I saw a provider site the other day that had reference to his upcoming travel dated 2020 … so 3 years later I might be wondering is the rate there still what it is today? It’s not like the client is applying for a job with the provider or entrance into w college and this is a test of their ability to follow instructions.

Though a case can still be made for abuse of power in some scenarios. If someone feels they risk losing their job because a customer (who is “always right”) has made an offer they are not supposed to refuse for the sake of business, or that there may be a false complaint if refused, that could count. Would require a lot of evidence. And patience.

I get the being treated like a free therapist part. Mind you I have likely done the same to some providers. On this subject I think there is a lot of academic work (more perhaps on women) on how being a provider can disrupt how one might typically view relationships (intimate or otherwise) given the transactional component.

Well these exclusionary ”peeves” could also be worth listing so those who find what is listed distasteful have the choice to avoid the provider.

“I don’t really date or hookup myself, as this job as kind of put me off all that stuff, maybe for life”

@Simon Suraci I don’t disagree with your points. Just wondering if it’s possible to increase the pie for providers in a way that clients don’t feel bullied or pressured and may actually appreciate. So not the timeshare salesperson … but the one who points out with that new jacket you now look stunning so have you thought about those shoes … Totally understand and agree with the points on feasibility because of interruptions, ability to pay, affecting mood etc.

Revisiting the OP and pondering a little, I have to say I agree the natural born male preference is quite a lot more than a “pet peeve”. If it’s such a problem for him he could figure it out discretely when confirming appointments in the way those requesting photographs do. And the experience he is offering surely rules out the few in that demographic that might approach him without reading between the lines. As @robear says above it’s a tiny demographic and the message is much louder than it needs to be. Stating it so boldly is unnecessarily hostile to that demographic (unless that was the intent).

Once hung out with a provider who was ex army. we had a nice chat about his political views with mutual consent … he then said he would not on principle see clients who were citizens of (the people’s Republic of) China. I rolled my eyes and said “if you don’t want to see Asian clients why not just say that …” He then said, no, given his ex army status and views on them as our #1 Enemy it was a point of principle and then went on to list all the other countries in Asia and said he would be fine with citizens from there.

“I saw you on Grindr and would have hooked up with you for free, but just so you know I have a rule I never see a client out of work so that’s never going to happen”

Perhaps he meant naturally born citizens …

Wonder if there’s a happy medium … An upsell doesn’t annoy me if it’s done in a way that feels like I have full choice and am being respected. And if the provider has time, and if the client is already there and has interest and $ available, it’s an impulse purchase that can be a win win.

Everything is a negotiation at the end of the day …

The upsell usually comes from those who also blow any chance of additional or future work through their attitude during the current session. One minute pretending like you can’t wait to be rid of me (texting etc) the next minute telling me about all the wonderful things that await if I extend or rebook, all while looking at your watch

I don’t believe we are debating sexual preference based on race here. That’s a valid topic but different. We are talking about if trends exist in market rates based on race, driven by different treatment of providers based on their race. And that is tied to your closing statement on respect.

A friend visiting from out of town went after 20 years or so on a Saturday night which he was told was busiest / best, and reported back he felt the place was loaded with people selling and using drugs and disproportionately “annoying” (eg they wouldn’t take “no” for an answer). Different from his experience in the past and where he lives now (Toronto).

I know someone who got a couple of sessions in return for building a providers website. He said afterward the trade didn’t feel good or fair for either party and he’d have preferred pure billing.

“You still look very hot” (together with affirming though unsolicited pat on my thigh)

“Unless you wanna extend, we should probably start winding down now …” (at 10 mins … 15 mins … 30 mins before the session is supposed to end)

Agreed. However there is difference in the association with exclusion when these identities are proudly stated. This is why most US colleges will have an African American or Hispanic or Asian etc student club but not one for whites, primarily because there is no need when the entire campus, not to mention the country, is open to them and when no effort is needed to find demographic peers. To paraphrase Matt Damon’s character in The Good Shepherd, “the rest of you are just visiting”. Now I don’t believe that … America is perhaps the greatest example of constantly welcoming and empowering incredible diversity, but it neatly sums up a lot of attitudes and realities. And that’s why it matters how and why difference and preference is expressed.

Jamie22 for the next 12 months