SouthOfTheBorder

I think any time a foreigner buys property in another country it requires extreme sensitively to local culture & customs, always remembering one is a guest in that country. engaging in complex political issues is the quickest way to show ignorance and disrespect. I’ve seen it many times & the Spaniards just roll their eyes. Similarly, in Thailand one would not venture into a discussion or critique of Thai politics. Thats not how a good guest behaves. and it’s about context. In a city of 11million+ like Bangkok, there doesn’t appear to be any organized movement that is anti-tourist/anti-foreigner. In a population that large, the tourists are visible but not enough of a concentrated presence to be considered problematic. That said, I’m sure the sex-tourists are considered a nuisance. In a city like BCN, it’s completely different where the tourists & foreigners have displaced the local people & destroyed their neighborhoods. Literally, like a daily plague of locusts. Thus, the constant media coverage about anti-tourist/anti-foreigner protests, graffiti and studies by the City to do something about the tourist problem. and it’s definitely much worse in some neighborhoods than others. the worst kind of foreigners are typically the ones who buy property, then stay just long enough to avoid becoming a tax-resident and then the allow others to use their property and making it more or less a transient hotel. Throughout Spain, it’s now common for buildings to restrict short-term use unless the property is licensed, but the typical work-around is to say it’s just family & friends, which actually makes little difference because it’s still transient. It’s definitely viewed more favorably if the apartment is solely used by the owner and even better if the owner becomes a resident for tax purposes - thus contributing to the place where using the services. In Spain, the Americans & British are thought to be the worst visitors/part-time residents as they’re typically entitled w condescending attitudes & know-it-alls while flaunting their relative wealth. Most tend to be very loud & obnoxious compared to Europeans, making them instantly identifiable. In Bangkok, there seems to healthy competition for the most obnoxious among Americans, Indians & Chinese….at least according to flight attendants who work the routes in/out of BKK and some local providers. The common thread - it’s always Americans

I live in Manhattan and frequently use hotels for dates. I prefer the Michelangelo Hotel on 51st & 7th. Huge rooms by NY standards & the hotel is big enough that there is relative anonymity coming & going. Easy subway access and Hells Kitchen adjacent. If not there, then definitely on the Westside above 40th and below 58th. Yes on dayuse.com - great options & reasonable rates.

they don’t seem to loathe tourists in Bangkok, so yes, that makes it different. Or, at least it’s not formally organized like in BCN. you might not pick-up on the anti-tourist/anti-foreigner undercurrent on one quick trip, you will notice with regular visits. just look for the very specific graffiti and attitude among service workers. as mentioned, the only thing that makes BCN a bit like BKK is Thermas. One public venue for paid sex - that’s it. https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2023/08/16/exclusive-brits-told-go-home-we-will-ps-in-your-beer-as-part-of-disturbing-new-anti-tourism-campaign-in-spain-launched-by-fed-up-locals/

it depends where & the behavior of the tourist. In Barcelona - given the sentiments of the locals, probably not a great place for a foreigner to buy. The influx of part-time residents and over-tourism are inextricably linked to the decline in quality of life in the city. Btw - discussing politics in Spain is considered rude & looked down upon - even worse when foreigners decide to weigh-in. Of course, it’s a very American thing to think that they somehow understand it well enough to have an opinion. An American flying a Catalan flag is beyond ridiculous. I can assure you all the Catalan & Spanish people are snickering & mocking it, not so privately either. It used to be a really lovely city, so it’s quite sad what it has become and the inevitable backlash by the local people. The over-tourism issue isn’t new, but seems to have become exponentially worse now w the Instagram hordes, influencers & digital nomads that have taken over. There’s very little they can do to stop or change what’s happened. it’s a victim of its own success - unfortunately you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. This is a well known problem in Europe & several other cities with similar problems. There are literally dozens of articles and research papers doing deep analysis on Barcelona & over-tourism, with all the attendant problems and declining quality of life. Many of the studies conducted the the city of Barcelona and local universities to combat the problems.

Barcelona is unique in Spain as it’s well known they have the most virulent anti-foreigner/anti-tourist sentiments for all the reasons previously discussed here. It’s so well documented from dozens of sources that it’s not even a question. That said - I’m sure the neighbors appreciate the foreigner who has bought a part-time apartment in Barcelona, contributing to their housing shortage & then wades into the very delicate subject that is Spanish/Catalan politics. such poor behavior as a guest in their country. why am I not surprised ? the height of arrogance and just another bad tourist

LOL - there’s a big difference between analyzing statistics & actually experiencing both cities in person to see the differences. Barcelona is a beautiful city w a nice climate & many notable tourist sites - however because of its relatively small city population and tight geography, the millions of tourists & cruise ship passengers make it quite dreadful. Outside of visiting Spaniards, Americans are the dominant tourists there making up 10% of the total. So, yes - if your idea of a good time is with hordes or tourists and being surrounded by very loud Americans at every turn, then Barcelona is for you. Similar to other small European cities like Amsterdam, Venice & Florence - Barcelona has been completely ruined by over-tourism that is all but impossible to unwind. There are many efforts in progress to restrict tourism in Barcelona and that has morphed into a distinct vibe in some sections that tourists are not welcome. It’s common to see graffiti throughout the city “Tourists Go Home” and similar. The reason for the public backlash is a housing shortage due to conversions to tourist apartments and some parts of the city are so inundated with tourists that locals no longer have easy access to everyday goods & services that now cater to tourists. Btw - vast majority of relocated or visiting providers in Spain are from South America, Central America & Caribbean. They overwhelmingly prefer Madrid because it’s just easier for them since Spanish is spoken everywhere and it’s the de facto capital of the Spanish speaking world. In Barcelona - most people can speak Spanish, but whether or not they will is entirely another question. I’ve watched many situations in BCN where whomever refuses to speak Spanish for whatever reason. The Catalan independence movement along with a separate Catalan identity & language is alive and well, manifesting in various ways. Again - something that you need to see and experience in person to see how it really works. If someone has never been to BCN - it can still be worthwhile; just never in the summer months and never in the Old City. Much better to stay in Eixample or if you want a more local experience then, Sarria - Sant Gervasi As for Sitges - it can be nice for a couple of days only, but there are much better options in Spain for a beach vacation.

not really. In the US, it has simply changed in most cities. there are still sex-parties everywhere & more underground/temporary venues for sex. The thing that has changed is who they let in & who they don’t. Most have some sort of door policy or advance list required. Thats how it is in NYC. And then there are the exceptions to all of that like in Ft Lauderdale. In other major cities outside the US, saunas & sex-clubs are still very common. I’d say there’s more sex happening now compared to decades ago. It’s not that it’s less free or less liberating - it’s far more likely that some are just aging out of those environments, particularly in the US where older gay men tend to become invisible. Im traveling outside the US now & in the city I’m visiting - there are at least 4 sex-clubs, several saunas with slings and everything else you can imagine. It’s far from being over. The younger generation would argue the apps make them more free & liberated than having to go to a public venue and mix with those they wouldn’t otherwise. and back to topic - if someone thinks bottoming isn’t for them, then they just haven’t found a good top yet: a complete & total game-changer. Lots of guys think they can top - very few actual good ones.

this is 100% true. In Madrid - it’s common to see much older gay men still doing everything and welcomed everywhere. It’s noticeably different there.

LOL - no, that’s completely wrong, many people confuse the city of Malaga with the greater province of Malaga. The province does indeed have many providers spread along the Costa del Sol from Malaga (city) to Marbella….about 40 miles away. Most providers are in Malaga city and they won’t even travel 5 miles. And providers in Malaga aren’t going to travel to Granada or Cordoba for an appointment- that’s 1-2 hours by car minimum each way. thats not how it works in Spain.

recession ? not according to my broker. I just made $$$$$ stop complaining- start investing

there’s not much to discuss w a well written profile - when/where/how much ? this is what I’m looking for - that’s it anything more is like being at restaurant with someone that can never decide what they want - just wasting time

that type slang is thrown around frequently & it’s always derogatory. just makes the person using the term sound stupid & typically dated/out-of-touch obviously they don’t know any better

the OPs original question was which European city was most like Bangkok - the simple answer is no city in Europe comes close. But, if having to choose one it would be Barcelona. The one thing that makes Barcelona just a bit similar is Thermas - a venue where you can find paid sex. That’s it. Then there was another questions about Madrid vs Barcelona: if you remove Thermas from the equation - Madrid wins in almost every comparison. Madrid is vibrant, clean & relatively safe while Barcelona suffers overtourism & all the attendant problems of a very small city inundated w tourists & the after effects of Catalan independence referendum. While many may not understand why Barcelona is in decline - the actual decline is obvious if only visiting for a couple of days. Still beautiful of course, but not very pleasant; crowded, dirty & plagued by petty crime targeting tourists. btw - thousands of businesses, including big banks & corporations left Barcelona for Madrid post Catalan referendum because of political instability. That’s a fact. And it remains an unsettled question - so, they aren’t going back. The entire episode inadvertently gave Madrid an economic advantage & was really just self-inflicted harm for Barcelona. As for providers online - Madrid still wins. It is the center of Spanish speaking world and filed with recent arrivals from Cuba, DR, Colombia, Venezuela, Brasil (yes - not Spanish speaking), Argentina, etc. Spain has a relatively easy immigration policy and according tho the guys themselves, most prefer Madrid. I still visit Barcelona frequently, but it’s really for Thermas. If it wasn’t there, then probably not. Below is a Financial Times piece dated February 2023 which explains Barcelona’s lingering problems. https://www.ft.com/content/18f0ca8c-607b-4633-a83f-e99f71a046e8

@Marc in Calif do you want the receipts ? yes or no

Im in BCN every 6-weeks & know the city very well. I’m in Madrid frequently too & I’ll be there next weekend (again). You have no idea what you’re talking about. fyi - I don’t use Wikipedia as a source. you do - I’ve seen it. Want the receipts ? because when you run to the mods later, remember- you asked for it

If you want UES, then JoJo is always good. The Polo Bar nearby is fabulous & usually hard to get in - a good concierge should be able to make it happen. If you want a more authentic old New York experience, try The Benjamin Steakhouse (the original, not Prime) and/or The Oyster Bar at Grand Central Station - only for lunch and always sit at the bar (the menu is different). i agree on Russian Tea Room if only for the vodka flights & high-camp factor. The bar across the street at the Park Hyatt is well worth a visit & exquisite cocktails. The Trump Grill is not known among locals as somewhere to go for good food. It caters to tourists taking pictures.

well then - given English is the default language in Thailand for all foreigners, including Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Europeans, Russians, etc and the Thais who communicate with them - it would seem they are “pandering” to everyone who is not Thai. It’s the Thai people who have elected to use that term and put into everyday usage. And the very people who are the ladyboys are the people using that word the most - calling out to all foreigners passing by the numerous venues. Hard to fathom they would continue to use a word they find so deeply insulting & derogatory over & over & over. So, it’s not really for me - it’s for everyone who is not Thai. And that would include you & likely everyone else reading this forum. i guess you’re using “Thainglish” as a descriptor to imply the Thais don’t really know what they’re saying or some inappropriate mash-up of English & Thai. “Thainglish” is not a word in common usage & I doubt you’d hear Thai people use that themselves. That’s insulting, derogatory & condescending. But, if thats “amusing” for you - then who is really lacking the cultural sensitivities ? Hypocrites generally lack self-awareness which is on full-display here. October ? that says quite a bit. Omg - no. While Barcelona has it charms, including Thermas & many providers - it hasn’t been considered “lovely” for years. It’s one of the most over-touristed cities in the world, overrun with obnoxious loud Americans, digital nomads & cruise ship passengers. And it’s become very dirty & sketchy (in parts) post Catalonia independence movement when most major banks & business fled Barcelona to Madrid. There’s an economic malaise that’s settled in which translates to a general decline overall. It’s still worth a visit and I go frequently - but lovely is just not a word to describe Barcelona in its current state. Other than Thermas, which is the defining variable in this discussion - Madrid is superior in every way. Wikipedia might say something different, of course and as per usual - the trolls hijack a thread with comments that have nothing to do with OPs original question. the goal, it seems is to make it all about them. What’s amusing to me are the people who troll these forums but post nothing about the core subject matter, meaning providers & venues. Obviously the agenda is for something else.

you should get on a plane to Bangkok & ask the locals to change their advertising signs. and while you’re there, ask them to stop using that very common word as they try to lure customers of all ethnicities into their bars Im sure they will appreciate your very delicate sensitivities & Wikipedia expertise the ones who never get laid are always so bitter & jealous

this is a more accurate way to make the point - yes. It could also be the absence of Catholicism/Christianity since Thailand was the only country in the region that avoided European colonization

I think it’s more a matter of chemistry between two people. sometimes the chemistry is pre-determined based on one’s own ideas or agenda. If more open-minded & fluid, then very surprising what can happen.

100% true. Thai culture seems to have very little issue w gender either, thus the very visible ladyboy & trans presence in Bangkok. And the overall acceptance seems to include paid companions as well. I’ve never seen that degree of acceptance anywhere else. Once that feeling is understood by a visitor, then you are free to relax and really enjoy on a different level.

there were more Brazilians & Americans on RM in BKK than Eastern Europeans- not even close. There may be some difference depending on exact timing. There are a lot of Russians in Thailand but seemed to be more in Pattaya. doesn’t sound like you’ve been to Bangkok recently, if ever - lots of ultra luxury condo towers built & more under construction. The skyline is full of skyscrapers & really beautiful. Brand new shopping malls that make malls in the US look small & tired. Many luxury hotels & fine restaurants. Efficient & sparkling clean subway system & elevated rail lines. In many ways very sophisticated & modern - but of course this was in the core city and I didn’t see outlying areas. And it’s pretty much completely safe. Bangkok is the playground for rich Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Thais & more. It has everything anyone could want.

$300 is a very high rate in Bangkok. But, it depends on where you source providers. RM of course will have the highest rates & only a couple foreigners (Americans) there asking $300. Most on RM are $120-$200. On other apps, the average is more like $65 -$100. I typically don’t like to source from the “apps”, but in Bangkok that’s how it’s done, especially on Hornet. In the massage shops it’s even less, but then you’re dealing with a charge for a “massage” and either a minimum tip or whatever you negotiate. The most straightforward massage shop I found was Arena - Silom adjacent. The real difference in Bangkok re; rates is if you’re paying for an hour or two of sex or a massage with some sex.

anyone charging $1000/hour isn’t in it to build a base of repeat clients. It’s a one-off rate, which means he won’t expect to see you again & probably doesn’t matter about the actual service delivered. they’re banking on the idea that enough people will pay just to be in their presence - and they’re probably right.