Simon Suraci

I know you’re kidding, but this is a real thing. For the more bookish providers, and those who love them: History and Economics of Male Sex Work

Now on RentMasseur. Any takers? Gatoalex’s RentMasseur Page

95% sounds about right. But that’s mostly in line with how I market myself, so my experience will reflect the clients drawn to my services. By extras, I assume covers a whole range from people that just like some mutual nudity, to mutual touching, all the way to people expecting or demanding full service for a massage fee (and those asking or willing to pay more for it).

@Archangel Thank you so much for sharing thoughtful input. You bring up excellent points. I know I write a lot but sometimes it takes more than a zinger or a headline to get into the details and nuances of a topic. The screenshot example gives so much more relevant context, and your examples of better provider responses are great. Noted, you are not expecting free escort services. Thanks for making that clear. You are hiring for longer engagements, which is not the typical interaction for 1-2 hr appointments. I would expect more from a provider when discussing any kind of hire, but especially longer term engagements. Phone calls I believe are necessary for longer term engagements. Both parties need to see if it will be a mutual fit, feel comfortable with one another, and get on the same page about expectations. Calls are efficient for short term hires too, but less critical because less is on the line. Longer hires are a higher risk for both parties. It’s best to schedule calls so you can have your provider’s full, undivided attention and privacy. Flying in a provider for two hours makes little sense to the provider as he would spend half a day getting there and again half a day getting back… all for perhaps several hundred dollars. It’s cost inefficient for the client too because he is spending maybe as much if not more for the flights as he is for the provider’s fee. Also, the experience you’re looking for requires more time together than a few hours. You’re willing to spend a reasonable fee for what you want, so good on you. You have every right to expect clarity and communication from someone receiving a large sum of money for highly sensitive and intimate services. Re: example screenshots It’s disheartening to hear communication threads like this are so common. Your potential hire is a bonehead. He fails to see the opportunity you’re presenting him. Why spend days hustling multiple short term clients when you can invest your efforts in one client for a higher fee over the same period? Plus the potential for repeat business is quite attractive. It’s all flying right over his head. 1) Perfect intro. No notes. 2) He starts by quoting fees. Strange because he doesn’t even know what you want yet. How much time, effort, or special considerations to be able to quote anything. Also, unclear if the 2k is for an hour, a day, an overnight, or what. Maybe this is his minimum to meet? Unclear. He has made no attempt to listen to what you want before diving into money talk. Instead, he presumes to tell you what the two of you will be doing together. 3) Foodz. Maybe this was a typo with no correction. Maybe just a casual inflection. Either way, it’s sloppy. He could bother to use complete sentences to match your level of communication, tone, and approach. His approach demonstrates he doesn’t take you or his work seriously. He doesn’t know how long the hire is yet, so why is he assuming you are eating meals together? Unless it’s a dinner date type thing, but he doesn’t know anything yet about what you want. 4) You were very good to communicate what you want, asking about travel concerns, and giving a fairly detailed but succinct overview of the types of services you would like to hire. You specify amount of time in terms of days and nights, which helps a lot. You give a sense of yourself and what you want in a provider. Good on you! 5) The provider makes no effort to match your tone, and still fails to use complete sentences. What he’s talking about in short form has nothing to do with what you just mentioned, and it’s still all about compensation. He barely acknowledges what you want at all, and asks no questions. Maybe he didn’t read your message at all? 6) You were generous to clarify the length of the hire you want after the nonsense response. 7) The provider still fails to acknowledge anything you want, or ask questions. He is still making the conversation all about compensation, this time in one word responses, using abbreviations, at that. It’s really selfish, like he is only concerned with what you can do for him, not at all what he can do for you to earn his compensation. Then he wants to pressure you into sealing a deal by setting a time. I’m flabbergasted and embarrassed for this guy. He doesn’t get it at all. I completely understand why you are upset at text exchanges like this. He is treating you like a paycheck, not a human being. It’s unprofessional, simply unacceptable. This provider is selfish, self-centered, impatient, and entitled. Maybe some of these guys feel this minimal level of effort and attention is all they need to give because of the way they look. Can you imagine how awful he would be in person? He would barely give you the time of day, not be interested in pleasing you or making any effort to earn his fee. I’m sorry this exchange is characteristic of many other provider interactions. You should expect better. I get it now. A lot of these guys advertising are ill suited to the work. It takes more than looking a certain way to succeed in this business. It takes empathy, compassion, respect, and a genuine care for humanity. We meet real human needs. It takes a special level of care to meet those needs. So much money is on the table because the services of a good, experienced, professional provider well suited to the work are indeed high value. Unfortunately a lot of guys think they can bypass all these prerequisites and say “but I’m pretty…” and charge the same fee. It’s difficult to find providers with the right temperament, mindset, intellect, emotional intelligence, and genuine good motivations for doing the work. Yes, it’s a living, but for a good provider, it’s more than that. He finds fulfillment in meeting real human needs. Good providers are unicorns indeed 🦄. Or svelte rhinos 🦏. Or in my case, maybe a beached narwhal 🐳. You hit the nail on the head by describing a meaningful interaction. We are here to make a real human to human connection. That’s what we are truly going for, at least for the unicorns standing in stark relief against a stampede of hornless pretty horses. Among them: inexperienced twinks I’ll call “my little ponies”. You definitely want the unicorns. Don’t settle for less. The unicorns are worth the cost, but it takes some work to track them down and verify they actually are the real deal. Thanks again for breaking down your thoughts and elaborating. I think we got to what the real issues are here. Your perspective certainly helps me.

So today someone asked me this via PM. Someone I have never chatted with before. The member will remain anonymous. We are not permitted to discuss politics, so please refrain from discussing any of your personal affiliations or opinions about any political party or public figures. Stick to your opinion about whether you think it is ok to ask a member or a provider the question in the first place. The question put me in a tough place. I don’t think I am particularly opaque in my views (which I will not discuss here), so I was puzzled someone would even ask. So I asked why they want to know. I also quoted community guideline 16 which states that the rest of the guidelines apply to private messages, one of which is we can’t discuss politics or religion on this platform. This member proceeded to tell me that they had left a positive comment about a provider and later learned the political affiliation of that provider. That affiliation was different from the member’s affiliation and so he wished to remove the positive comment based solely on that affiliation. Why he thought I could help him with that task, or that I would be interested in doing so, I don’t know. I told him that he should hire based on other things like professionalism, skill, and good communication, and not political affiliation. I didn’t know what his affiliation was by the way. I would say the same if he aligns with my affiliation or differs from it. He then told me that I was attacking him. I’m baffled. Do you consider political affiliation at all in your hiring decisions? Assume the provider does not discuss politics in his sessions, and he does not push any ideological agenda in the course of performing his work. Would you choose not to hire someone because their political affiliation differs from yours?

+1

@Archangel your comments represent a frame of mind I believe many clients here struggle with but don’t always present so directly as you have here. I apologize for making it sound personal. I really have no beef with you personally. I’m trying to use this example (because it’s a good one!) as a way to talk about the issue, to get to the very bottom of why some clients feel very much the same way you do. Some are seldom happy with hiring for the reasons you present. I’m curious as to why, where the problems are, and want to identify some solutions as to how we can make the experience better. If it’s a provider problem in your opinion, I want to learn how to improve. For instance, in your case, depending on what you have to say, I might consider a different approach to my text responses regarding activities and interests. Something more than “Yeah, I’m into that”. Maybe I would be more specific in parroting back exactly what a client asked for, to give him confidence that I actually read what he wrote and demonstrate in no uncertain terms that I am interested and committed to fulfilling it. Maybe that’s not what you mean, in which case I am interested in hearing what you do mean. Or, perhaps demonstrate the level of enthusiasm the client is looking for to motivate him to book, but not so much enthusiasm that I put him off. That would help me and other providers reading this. You are one person, but I’m sure other clients here feel similarly. I want to understand what motivates you, and by extension others like you, so that I can be a better provider to prospective clients. I’m also questioning whether it is a client problem. I’ve identified the paid option alternatives and why those are unattractive to you. Feel free to clarify anything I am misinterpreting about your feelings toward paid options. If those options are unacceptable (which is up to you, not me), I fear nothing will satisfy this kind of client you represent, apart from a free hookup with someone he’s interested in, catering 100% to his desires and convenience. In which case, I’m not sure there is anything I can do about it. I accept the unaddressable grievance for what it is and move on from attempting to appeal to this kind of client. Since you most definitely *aren’t* reading this 😉, I pose these questions to clients who feel similarly to you. Ok, fine. I’ll be the condescending ice queen with blue balls and wear that crown proudly. But I have a point of view and a willingness to question and engage. It’s not personal. I am curious. I enjoy learning things here. Challenging others to examine their thoughts and opinions forces me do the same for myself, and I enjoy it. Cheers to definitely *not* reading this 🥂. A few others will.

^Too late… Berating? No. Responding to your request for opinions on the subject you posted? Yes, absolutely. Giving you real, straightforward talk on matters with stakes? You better believe it. If you don’t want members to respond, why post the topic? Can’t handle the heat? Don’t invite the neighbors into your kitchen to cook. Posters like me are a very tiny fraction representing providers who are not here, for any number of good reasons, to speak for themselves. If you aren’t hearing it from people like me, you might feel as though it’s ok to do what you’re proposing all the while with a client mob vastly outnumbering voices like mine encouraging you to do so. Reframing the question the other way around sheds a bit of perspective on what you are proposing. That’s why we respond. We want you to understand the implications. What you suggest is a double standard. You can say any horrible, perhaps unfounded or speculative thing about a provider, but clients are untouchable, off limits, because we are the “goods” and you are the consumer. You have nothing to lose if we said something horrible about you. You might feel embarrassed (or maybe not) but nobody knows who you are. What you post impacts our livelihoods, however unfounded or inaccurate it may be. A lot of us don’t even know this place exists, so we have no way to protect ourselves from people damaging our businesses here. Would you want to be in the limelight, demonized, called a fraud, a scam, a whateverfillintheblank unflattering thing with no evidence from your accusers to back it up? And oh by the way you now make less income at your job because of it? Why then, would it be acceptable to do this to someone else? You can count on it. If you aren’t prepared to take responsibility for the things you say, don’t say them. We will pounce.

^The pros aren’t flakes. You engage to see if he is a pro. You don’t necessarily know he’s a pro until you engage. ^But this isn’t just casual sex. It’s paid sex. It’s professional, and it’s work. The motives are not personal, but professional. I believe you’re missing the crucial difference between the two. Each has different rules, different dynamics. Asking the same guy for casual (free, mutual interest) sex and then turning around and asking him for paid sex is telling him to play by different rules. And when he does take your lead and play by those new rules, you don’t like it. ^I struggle to see why “scoring” a client and delivering a satisfactory experience are mutually exclusive. I’m also wondering what would constitute a satisfactory response for you. Many of my text interactions are similar to what you wrote. Things like “Yes, I’m a great rimmer.” “I enjoy kissing”. “I am on board with all that you mentioned”. “Yes, this is a strength of mine.” “I can definitely do X for you”. “I have little [or no] experience with Y, so I may not be the best fit for you.” Do you need your provider to fawn, to send five exclamation marks, to beg, or offer to do it for free because he is so thrilled to do [insert sexual activity here] with [client he has never met]? If so, count me out. I am not that guy and don’t want to be. The best providers among us keep our communications cordial, but direct and professional. That might look like a provider saying, “Thank you for sharing. Yes, our interests are compatible. We are going to have a great time.” or “Can you tell me more about how you want X to go so I can make this a great experience for you?” Or would you rather receive something like, “OMG I would LOVE to [fill in blank]!!!!! I’m so hard rn just dripping wet in my pants thinking about it. I’m desperate for your [fill in the blank]. Daddy, please, I need you now! Uuuunngghhh.” OK. Point made. What exactly is this fine line you need a provider to walk? What do you want his communication to look like? Can you give some examples of successful communication about compatibility and interests? What does a good interaction look like to you? So you want the provider to be “into” all of the things that align with your preferences (fair enough) and you want him to confirm those things (fair enough), and with some very specific level of enthusiasm in writing (questionable given the points above), be willing to do those things *with YOU* (obviously), for a fee (also fair), but now you’re upset that he’s actually enjoying any aspect of the encounter with you BECAUSE he is charging a fee for it. Am I missing something here? Should he NOT be enjoying himself in any way for it be acceptable for him to charge? But at the same time it’s important to you that he is genuinely into what you are doing, so much so that you need to ensure all of this quite explicitly over messages or a call beforehand. What I’m hearing is: 1) you are upset that he won’t do for FREE on an app exactly what YOU want with YOU specifically, on YOUR schedule. Ok, so people have agency. They meet people they want to meet to do things they want to do when they have time to do them. Maybe you do not fit the “who” or “what” criteria (or both) of the men you’re interested in on an app. Maybe the “when” criteria is also a barrier. Tough. They are not beholden to you in any way. C’est la vie. Here is where money comes in. It provides an incentive for a gentleman to meet men he normally wouldn’t, or do things he normally wouldn’t (or both). Or perhaps also when it’s convenient for the client but not him. 2) you pay him to do the things you want and he ISN’T into the activities, or you, or both, so you are upset. I get it. You want aspects of the interaction to be genuine, to gratify you on some level. But he still performs the service for you. Do his time, services, and professionalism not have value? 3) you pay him to do the things you want and he IS into the activities, you, or both. You have everything you wanted, and yet still you are upset. Why? Pick a lane. In what paid scenario would you be happy?

And the cockroaches scatter to the corners of the room…. Welcome @Devah! Bold of you to join. Clients: I encourage you to keep an open mind and engage with him. I’ve spoken with Devah on the phone and can vouch he is one beautiful and unique soul. Alternative in many ways. He’s not like a lot of others you discuss here. We have very different ideas about how we approach business, the services we offer, how we offer them, and that’s ok. I would be careful with your accusations of “fraud” without any receipts to back it up. We providers could say the same of countless clients ghosting us, stiffing payment, or mistreating us in some other way, but we don’t. Chat with Devah. Ask questions. He’s a really interesting guy. Remember the golden rule: treat others the way you want to be treated.

Yes! 👏 Tops come in all varieties. Good tops are in very short supply, unfortunately. By good tops, I mean something like what @JEC is describing. You just don’t find them very often in the wild.

Because he’s one of the good ones. @Archangel Pass over the guys that can’t be bothered to reasonably engage with you. As long as you are being direct and keeping communication about relevant matters, a good provider won’t be put off. I know the experienced clients here on the boards are not going to be the ones jacking off asking what we are wearing right now, sending endless photo requests, and so on and so forth. Stick to the good guys, the pros, and you shouldn’t have a problem.

This is how: offer to pay an appropriate rate for sex work. Please consider the golden rule. If every client were like you, I would be milked like a cow 6x a day for a massage fee. And oh by the way, still be expected to get hard as a rock and be sexy and have lots of energy and have a good attitude, do good work, be “on”, and make it seem as though I genuinely enjoyed being pressured into allowing a client to give me a (probably not so great) handjob…etc…for the second client…and the third…and the sixth client too. Exhausting, no?

Agree. We pay attention to clients booking us through the normal channels. You don’t have to say anything about the Grindr communication. You want his time and service, which is valuable to you and to him. You get priority and the privilege of seeing him when you want to and receive the service you want. That’s worth paying for. As far as the hookup is concerned, you may or may not ever meet him, and certainly not on your preferred schedule and not with the expectation that he is going to provide a service he normally charges for at the level of quality he would for a client.

^This is THE solution, right here. Mic drop. Well done @DunwoodyGuy

We would love to meet you, @Pensant

Next year’s gathering may or may not happen, as Oliver cast doubt on whether he is renting his place again. I see no reason we couldn’t have the dinner and breakfast as usual. InnDulge is a great place for pool parties except that we couldn’t invite a large crowd outside of the hotel guests. Having a few people is no problem, but 30+ people that aren’t staying there crashing the party may be a problem. I would like to discuss alternative plans for the pool parties with other interested regular gathering attendees. Maybe one or more of us can rent a place with a pool, but I fear it would be prohibitively expensive. Short term rental landlords are not fond of parties of any size, no matter how tame. Long term rentals for a month minimum stay in high season would cost a fortune. I’ll have to give this some thought. Maybe the pool party/ies would take a different form or location. Maybe it does not have to be a pool thing or clothing optional thing, considering most of the party guests don’t even get in the pool or even get naked anyway. Considering the typical Friday and Sunday times are between lunch and dinner, maybe it doesn’t have to include food, to simplify things further.

Scams go both ways. Should we post about clients trying to scam providers? I wonder how well that would go over around here 🤣 I almost never ask for deposits, with some reasonable exceptions such as for cross country travel to see a new client. Recently a client was adamant about sending me a deposit. This isn’t really a thing, as so many here agree they would rather take a perpetual dirt nap than send a deposit. I declined, saying he can pay after we completed the appointment. He persisted saying he really wanted to show me he was serious. We communicated over the phone, first when he requested the appointment and again weeks later when he was trying to send me the deposit. He wanted to use Zelle. Knowing some scammers use Zelle to launder money, my gut tells me something is not right. The provider is the patsy in this common scheme. The “client” requests the money back for any number of inane reasons. The catch-22 is whether you, the provider, send the money back or choose to keep it, you become either 1) an accomplice to fraud i.e. the mechanism to launder the money, or 2) a beneficiary of fraudulent activity, neither of which you want implicating you when law enforcement comes knocking to investigate. Sooo…I suggested the client use Venmo instead. Not foolproof, but Venmo offers more protections than Zelle, similar to a credit card. There is at least some recourse if something went wrong. Zelle is instant and irreversible. This is why you should only use Zelle with contacts you know well like family, friends, or providers you have met before and trust. Venmo is easy and free to set up. Download the app, create a profile, and connect whatever bank account or credit card you want. It’s easy. This extra step will test how serious the client is. If he is so hellbent on sending me money ahead, surely this would be no problem, right? I explained the fraud concerns to the client, noting that if he needs to hide the transaction from his wife, Zelle would offer no privacy unless it was a separate account she doesn’t know about. He confirmed his situation was the latter. In that case, he can connect the same account he was going to use Zelle to pay me. Solution reached. But no, the client insisted that he can only use Zelle and that he refuses to use Venmo. I explained that I don’t believe he is trying to commit fraud, but that I need to maintain this policy consistently to protect myself. He wasn’t having it. Considering all the facts laid out here, I sensed something fishy is going on and cancelled the appointment, deciding not see the client. I told him as much directly over the phone. If he truly is a legit client, his loss. Good luck to him.

Agree. Bingo! I’ve arranged reservations for my clients at high end restaurants because I know their taste, but also done the same to introduce them to some good modestly priced local eats that they never would have otherwise considered and they thanked me for bringing me there. One of my overnight clients prefers no meals together, just a late night start time and an early morning departure. For him, I bring a few pastries and his favorite morning beverage: diet Dr Pepper. Not everyone’s cup of tea. Most would prefer coffee, but neither he nor I drink coffee. Personally I shudder at the thought of a diet soda beverage at any time, but especially first thing in the morning. But hey, he still wants caffeine, and this is what he likes. I know my clients well and I cater to them, however sophisticated or not-so-sophisticated their tastes and preferences may be. There is no standard answer. A good escort adapts to his client’s preferences and places no judgment on him for selecting something modest or fancy. Clients pay us for our time. Time together over a meal (of any kind), is time well spent. Whether he tips or how much he tips has no bearing on what he is spending on dining. Our compensation is $, not food, beverages, gifts, or experiences. None of those pay our bills. $ does. Clients - you don’t need to impress us. Nor be embarrassed about spending modestly on dining either. We are here for you, to be good company and give you an experience you won’t soon forget.

Hmmm. Maybe he didn’t understand what I was asking for when I reached out, or maybe he wasn’t into a group scene.

I saw Michael last month. He’s excellent, highly recommend. Nice space and well done. He’s a beautiful man too, although the sensual upgrade is really not worth it IMHO. He excels at therapeutic work, so go to him for that. He’s totally worth it. So many of us are pressured into doing sensual/erotic work because the m4m market by-and-large demands it of us. Sad that it has to be this way and I think Michael is a case-in-point. Some of us are well suited to therapeutic, and others are well suited to sensual/erotic work (with or without good therapeutic work). These two are not mutually exclusive, but difficult to find in the same guy. Michael is a great therapeutic body worker.

I reached out. I saw he viewed my profile right after I messaged him. No response…sent a follow up message a day or two later…no response.

Sometimes I intentionally only stay one night in a stopover city on a holiday or otherwise potentially slow time to make use of a convenient travel stop between two cities I’m staying in longer. Like 4th of July I almost always plan as a travel day between two major cities (like Houston and Dallas) and don’t expect anyone to book the evening of the holiday, but sometimes they do last minute and it’s a bonus that basically just pays for that otherwise wasted hotel night fee, maybe a bit more depending on what they book. Las Vegas, for example in May I am only staying one night and purchased a late checkout to accommodate clients. It’s not on a holiday but I’m breaking up my time on the road between Salt Lake City and San Diego. If clients book, all the better but really it’s a convenient rest for me at a hotel I like for a very affordable rate. I already have people booked and more interested, but really I would be happy not having any clients at all because the stop is convenient for me and it’s the last on my way home. A quiet dip in the pool with a cocktail would be the perfect celebration to punctuate a long road trip. Sometimes I book a single night not expecting anyone whatsoever, for example in a small nowhere town off the highway in Wyoming in May to break up my road trip to rest between Denver and Salt Lake City. I would be shocked if I worked that night but hey if the business comes, I’ll take it. Some cities we are booking multiple nights expecting to work. Others, not so much. That could be what is happening when you run across a one night wonder like him.

He is risen this morning indeed!

I’ve seen no change in hiring behavior among my clients. If anything, seeing me is a welcome reprieve, an escape from a constant barrage of disheartening news every single day. They are fatigued and in need of some comfort, relief, and distraction. I deliver in spades. Massage is one of those industries that actually grows during recessions. People want an escape and a sense of luxury. Instead of going on a vacation for thousands of dollars, they might opt for simple pleasures like a massage for a couple hundred dollars. Some people will hire less feeling the crunch, but actually for the people unaffected by the market, they hire even more, and that drives demand and prices. In response, during those times it’s less about appealing to everyone and offering discounts etc and more about catering to those who hire no matter what and retaining them and developing more business with them. Everyone else comes knocking again when the market swings the other direction.