Simon Suraci

All well and good, and I agree calls are great for seeing if there’s going to be a good connection, but if your man isn’t expecting your call and doesn’t pick up from an unknown contact on the first ring, would you pass him by? Let’s say he’s at, say, the gym where he can’t openly talk about explicit sexual details and rates for his services. Would you blame him for not picking up at that moment? More likely he’s with another client when you dial and he can’t pause a session to take a random call. Can you imagine if he did that with you during your session? I would be pissed. Same goes for when he is having a face to face conversation with someone. Maybe it’s late and he’s already asleep, or at his doctor’s office, or driving, or anywhere else that it would be inappropriate, unsafe, or rude to answer a call. What expectations do you have of a provider to answer your call? Anytime, anywhere, without notice? Or would you be ok asking ahead to schedule a time to call? Would an initial contact by email/messenger/texting be a total dealbreaker for you?

Hey, that’s good business. If the client is happy and you’re happy, that’s success! Sounds like a good arrangement. You’re providing value to the client by leveraging your contacts, you’re providing value to your contacts by referring them business, and you’re providing value to yourself by inspiring loyalty and appreciation from your client. Win-win-win. Not all benefits are immediate or tangible. Loyalty is worth far more than a $200 finder’s fee. That’s just a bonus, and I think it’s fair. Plus, it’s ongoing! Good for you, @ModelScort!

Regarding the personal data comment@Unicorn mentioned, I don’t need everyone knowing my middle name. I’m sure many clients would feel the same way if the positions were switched. The date of birth item I don’t care about since I use my real one to match what I advertise. Other hired guys frequently age shave, sometimes by a lot, and I’m sure many of them wouldn’t want to share this info with their clients - in particular new clients they’ve never met before. I am a registered known traveler, which helps me get me through security faster at most domestic airports. I use a Known Traveler Number when I book air travel, which, in the wrong hands, could be used to hack for lots of other information. How would you clients feel if I were booking travel for you? Would you feel comfortable sharing your information with me? I know that’s not how it works, but the same concerns you might have about sharing your information apply in the reverse. Clients use assumed names, share inaccurate ages, and other fabricated info with me all the time. I know their real names and ages through various means, but I don’t let on because I want them to feel comfortable. I would never do something to violate their privacy or discretion because I have a lot to lose by doing so. A client, however, has very little to lose by doing the same to me. By the way, I seek out client information firstly for personal safety and secondly to get a sense of whether the client is reliable. The rest I don’t care about. I’m not going to shame someone or blackmail them or anything like that.

That’s what I am saying. I AGREE with you. The policy is for first time clients who want to hire me anyway.

We providers can’t have it all our way. We can’t eliminate risk. Correct, there is no solace in that. It’s not all bleak though. When things don’t go my way, I don’t blame the system or demand the system conform to my expectations, however reasonable those expectations may be. Rather, I try my best to reduce risk rather than eliminate it. In an ideal world, our profession would be legal and all clients would either a) be willing to pay deposits or b) show up and fulfill their commitments without deposits. We do not live in that world. We can’t change human nature or force the nature of hiring to work that way. Our expectations are reasonable, but clients are often unreasonable. Maybe moreso in your market, but it’s a problem everywhere. It’s not fair, but the system works that way. Legalization would certainly help change the dynamic, but we are very far from that in the US. I hear you want to create a more favorable hiring world for us by educating clients. I think you’re an idealist in that sense, whereas I am a realist and a pragmatist. I accept the world as it is and make the best decisions I can to work with it rather than against it. Try as we may, our efforts only go so far. We shouldn’t give up doing important work to change hearts and minds on forums like this and elsewhere. However, our conversations won’t change the whole system. There will always be a majority (or significant percentage) of clients that will never pay deposits under any circumstances, and there will always be some percentage of flakes when we don’t require deposits. There’s no getting around that. Complaining about people being dickheads doesn’t advance our cause or earn us any more money. It doesn’t change the world in which we live. The dickheads will continue to be dickheads. We can’t control how people behave, but we can control how we run our businesses. When we find the right systems and policies that work for us, the right people find us and hire us. The rest fall away. Weigh the pros and cons and make decisions that work for you. When things don’t go your way, you can either consider it a cost/risk of doing business and cope, or decide the cost/risk is too great. If you land on the latter, consider changing your approach and policies to reduce risk. There is always some level of risk in doing what we do. Find your level of risk tolerance and let the rest go. We can’t win every bet, but we can arrange the game (i.e. business model, business decisions) to favor the house. It’s a matter of weighing which options work better for you. You could: 1) require deposits and accept the fact that your pool of potential clients is going to be much smaller…and you’re ok with that and don’t complain about the consequences of your own choices. 2) don’t require deposits and you accept the fact that some clients are going to flake…and when they do, you don’t complain about the consequences of your own choices. 3) figure out some other risk mitigation strategies you haven’t explored yet. At least be willing to try something different if you want different outcomes. 4) complain when the world doesn’t work the way you want it to and continue to do business as usual. 5) expect, ask, hope, beg, and try to convince the world to change and then continue to be upset when it doesn’t. 6) is there an option I’m missing? The way I do things will not be the right solution for everyone else, but here’s my approach for reference. I choose the no deposit path, but I also make other business decisions to support that one, like not being on the road all the time, and being strategic about trips when I do travel, among other things. I set up the game to favor the house. At the end of the day, I lose some, but I win more than I lose, and I’m successful because of the decisions I made. I don’t complain when I lose. I move on and focus on the majority wins. When there are not enough consistent wins to outweigh the losses, I change strategies until I find the right mix to favor the house. If you want ideas and are actually open to implementing them, ask. You have a lot of smart, helpful, compassionate people here who care about you and your success.

I hear you on that point @Unicorn. If I were a client hiring a provider for the first time, I wouldn’t do it. Usually in this situation the client and provider have more than one successful meet prior to establish rapports and trust. That makes a big difference. When a new client really wants me, and for me to travel far away for them, and they demonstrate their seriousness by taking a risk to pony up, I do it for those clients. The rest I turn down because the risk is not worth it to me. I take a much more generous approach with long established clients I trust. In my experience, the further the client is and the longer they want to hire me for, the more likely it is that they will cancel, often the day before or even the day-of. That’s the biggest reason why I won’t risk my time and $ for a first time client far away. Also, I prefer to make my own arrangements for privacy and security reasons. Handing over all my personal information to someone I don’t know is bonkers to me. Any other providers with more experience in long distance travel hires? I’d love to hear your perspectives and policies.

This is how I operate too, and why I almost never charge deposits either. When a client flakes, I only lose the time I spent waiting for them, and potentially another booking I had to turn down because the flake client occupied a slot on my calendar. IF I agree to travel to a city an hour or more away (and that’s a big IF), I would request a travel deposit up front, or at least charge the client a travel fee, even if it’s in the total and not in the form of a deposit paid in advance. If there is air travel involved or the client is multiple driving hours away, I would absolutely require a sizable deposit in advance to cover flights, gas, etc. I arrange my own travel. I don’t allow clients book flights or accommodations on my behalf. That way I can control cancellations, refunds, and rebooking things if necessary. For outcalls in my local area, I have a new policy: I only travel for clients booking services totaling $300 or more. I don’t charge a travel fee or deposit, but the total fee makes it worth my while to travel. For massage outcalls, I spend extra time setting up and taking down, which is unpaid, by the way, along with travel time in both directions, and gas, and most clients don’t appreciate ANY of this. The higher total fee incentivizes me to give away all this time for free. Also, I refuse the booking if the client doesn’t have space for my massage table and room to move freely around it (approx 9’x12’ clear area) My new policy means any of the following, that the client is: 1) Hiring me for outcall escort service. The client is owning that, and not trying to pretend they’re only getting a massage and then demanding full service on their own turf for the price of a massage. This is all too common 🙄 2) Hiring me for couples massage. For example, I massage one partner for an hour for $150, followed by the second partner for an hour for $150. I did this just the other day and the couple loved it. 3) Hiring any combination of multiple services totaling $300 or more. 4) Not getting a bed massage. I don’t do this. I can’t give a proper massage on a bed, and calling it a “massage” doesn’t change what the client really wants and expects. The client needs to hire me for escort service in that case, and pay the respective rate for it. I totally understand why others charge deposits. When you’re on the road traveling far to a client, spending money on accommodations, and taking only 1 client a day, or 2 at the most, it makes total sense. Personally, I couldn’t make that business model profitable for me, even if every client showed up and paid me my rate. So I don’t run my business that way. More power to providers who can make business sense of it and profit enough to keep going. When I do tours, it’s to places I know the local demand will fill my days with multiple appointments, and I only accept incalls where I am staying, with very few exceptions. I think I did one outcall for one client out of a whole month of a multi-city tour. Outside of the cases I mentioned, I stick to incall appointments in my home city. That is a profitable business model for me. This model allows me to not have to rely on deposits and travel fee requests to run my business well. There are many ways to do business. I suggest each provider find the right one for him. If your business relies heavily on deposits, I stand by the comment about not complaining. You have the power to change how your business operates so that you don’t have to rely so much on deposits. If the deposit policy works well for you on the whole, there is no reason to complain. If it doesn’t work well for you, I suggest changing your business model. If you don’t want to change your business model, by all means, keep throwing punches into the wind! But don’t complain when you’re not hitting anything.

At least in this context everything happens with consent, and I’m double the legal age… For the right price, I’ll kiss a ring or anything else he wants 😂

Here we go again. Please check the threads @56harrisond referenced. Deposits have been covered many, many, many times before in previous threads, even on threads that are not about deposits. @Phil Wagner check out the search function. That will shortcut you to all the best topics covering what you are asking about here, and you can contribute to those threads as well. The short answer is: do whatever makes sense for your business. You don’t have to cave to what clients want or expect. If you get enough business from clients who conform to your policies, great. Be upfront with everyone, and when they say no, move on…and please don’t ever complain about not getting enough business as a result of your own business policy decisions. OR take on clients without deposits at your own risk…and please don’t ever complain about flaky clients you engage as a result of your own business policy decisions. There is no perfect solution that works for every client or provider. I recognize there is plenty of room for nuance, but I won’t get into it here. The big issue is whether to require deposits or not. How much, and under what circumstances, etc is just details. You choose what works for you and ignore others who insist on their way of doing things. Either way, choose the best policies for your business and don’t complain. Take the compatible clients, weed out the incompatible clients. If your policies aren’t working out for you, change them, and stick consistently to them. Love long and prosper.

Lol I had a Catholic priest client one time. He was particularly handsy and creepy with me. Come on man, at least try not to play into the stereotypes and baggage. Oh well. They’re people too, with more or less the same desires and same needs as everyone else. I’m not judgmental at all, but I have to remind myself if these things sometimes.

@BeefyDude personally I have no problem talking on the phone, but I have my reasons for not picking up the phone for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that dials my number. Some of those reasons I’m sure I share with many other masseurs and escorts. Only after the client requests a call via text or through a messaging system, I will accept a call. Even then, I have to add the client as a contact before the call will ring through because I silence calls from all non-contacts. I see the missed call but my phone does not ring or buzz when they dial, until I add them as a contact. I do this for many reasons: 1) Avoids disturbing my current client. Who wants their masseur’s phone in the room to be buzzing or ringing non-stop? 2) I’m not always alone, available, and in a private place ready to talk. 3) Often clients try getting a free phone sex experience from me under the guise of “just asking questions”. 4) Many questions clients ask are already answered on my ads. Unless the client is asking questions that a phone call addresses better than the ad, I don’t see the point. In fact, it’s a red flag that this client isn’t one I want to see anyway. Some questions are good, it just depends if they want me to basically recite the ad for them or if they actually have substantive questions. 5) Telemarketers and scams are abundant. I have no time or patience for them. People still call my number trying to contact whoever was using the same number many years ago. I ignore those. 6) Mr Number and other sources are a clue. If the number has a lot of negative reports, I’m less inclined to be generous with my time for the client. As I already acknowledged, a lot of immature providers post unfair comments. There’s nothing wrong with asking questions and if you decide not to book, that’s no reason for the provider to leave a negative comment. Therefore, I take it all with a grain of salt. When the comments are consistent, specific, and warranted, I pay more attention. For example, consistent pattern of no-shows. Not general, vague things like “time waster”, or “stupid guy” or things like that. For some, a time waster is simply a client asking a few questions and then doesn’t book. I don’t consider that a time waster. I would if they tried to have phone sex with me or sext with me after I tell them my boundaries for unpaid calls.

Agree with all the above. I do à la carte service for clients who only want platonic time together. For everyone else, which is 99% of the time, I quote a rate for one or two hours, and then an all in rate for a longer period to include both platonic time and sexy time. I structure these as a 5-hr all inclusive option to include massage and spa services, sexy time, and time together doing all other activities like dinner, date, etc. It works out to a lower hourly rate. For me right now it’s $200/hr for those longer sessions instead of $300/hr. Others may be different, but for most of us it makes sense to give the client some sort of break on rate vs full rate X several hours. It’s an opportunity to earn more than we otherwise would for the same time. It’s a more enjoyable time for the client and worth his $. This concept may not apply to well known porn stars and whatnot, but you never know. It’s always best to ask. Here is a related discussion below:

Tal told me today that he is deleting his RentMasseur ad at the end of October 2023. I can’t afford to take advantage of his specials this month, but I’d love to try him eventually. As of today, he still advertises on RentMen. He’s also advertises on mainstream platforms Google Business and Yelp. https://sharoneskinspecialist.com AllForMen - Pornstar Performer, Rentboy, Gay Massage in San Diego, CA | RentMen RENTMEN.EU Pornstar Performer & Rentboy in San Diego, CA - AllForMen: All For Men

Indeed, Cimetière du Père Lachaise is a must see. Peaceful and beautiful.

Shef looks like something my mom would enjoy doing. She was delivering groceries on app services, but there’s not enough work or any decent paying orders available to keep her busy. I’ll have to share this with her, and try it myself sometime.

My suggestion: tip generously. Enjoy his service. Leave the rest for him to figure out on his own.

Whatever your relationship, it’s important to define and maintain boundaries. That’s the key.

Good, reputable providers will not play games or try blackmailing you. We have our own careers to think about. You will read stories of scams and robberies and such because those negative interactions are the most memorable and likely to be shared. Those are the exceptions, rather than the rule. Sure, you may have so-so or bad providers, but they’re not all out to get you! The vast majority of us are hard working men doing our best to satisfy our clients and make a living for ourselves and our families. Aside: many of us are single, but some of us have families relying on us to take care of them. We’re people. Doing anything to harm our clients is outside our own best interests, both in the short term and the long term. Pick the right guys using the advice here and you’ll be fine. Any provider with a proven track record is going to be your best bet.

Haha I actually had no such photos posted neither publicly or in a private/premium gallery. I’m planning to include some in my next photoshoot.

I snooze from 7:00am-7:30am. I really struggle getting up before 6:30am for anything. Check any work messages in bed, never jerking off in the morning, rise and stumble out of bed bleary eyed, looking like hell (and feeling like hell), put on grubby clothes, and start farm chores. I never make my bed unless I’m trying to keep up appearances for company or unless I’m washing sheets. I care about a lot of things. A tidy bed nobody sees is not one of them. Put the dogs in their fenced area, let the ducks out of their coop to forage while I work, change out the soiled duck water, clean the tubs, top off the feed, fill the drinking water, spread fresh dry pine shavings bedding, collect the duck eggs, and usher the ducks back into the coop (they follow my voice commands). Let the dogs back out, wash and pack the eggs for market back in the house. Visit the head, maybe read some CoM there or google a random curiosity on my mind. Use the bidet, shower, always a hot shower, 15-20 mins mostly just getting hot water on my face to wake up. I can’t leave the house feeling like a human without a hot shower. After the shower, I’m bright eyed and bushy tailed. No coffee or any stimulants. A quick bite of healthy cereal. Water, meds. Hit the gym if no appointments scheduled first thing, or work out later if something is scheduled early. Sometimes run a few errands before commuting to the studio. Then…it’s off to the races taking clients.

Hey @Vin_Marco would you take on a photography client? We’re both in SoCal and I need some new photos done. Or maybe a nearby referral if you happen to have one. I understand you aren’t doing pro photo shoots anymore, but figured I’d ask! I’m anything but a muscle god, just a regular guy next door you would never know does this work looking at me on the street, but I have my own modest appeal…😉 Sexy shots sorely needed.

Massage by Robert: Massage San Diego WWW.MASSAGEBYROBERT.COM I am a massage therapist in San Diego speacializing in clinical massage. Massage by Robert is... One of my clients recommended Robert for therapeutic massage. I trust the client and really enjoy good therapeutic work, so I gave him a go. I keep expectations low when I do this, knowing many clients have a pretty low bar and haven’t had a truly excellent massage before because they rely too heavily on the sexy masseurs who don’t have much skill but look good and provide extras. Seeing Robert was a worthwhile experience, for sure, despite the crazy booking procedure I outline below. Excellent therapeutic massage skills, addressed all my problem areas and I felt it for days afterwards. Really good value. On par with the other guys around, or less, but way more skilled. He’s a rare gem. I’ll start with this. He’s a handsome guy. He’s also straight, married, with kids. I didn’t chat with him much but that’s what my client said since he sees Robert regularly and knows more about his life. He works out of an office in a professional building in Mission Valley. There are no extras, not even a hint of anything sexy and he’s fully clothed, and you’re draped with a sheet and blanket the whole time, moving it around as needed. He carefully follows massage school protocol in this respect. So...if you want any kind of hanky panky, he’s not your guy. See me or others like me for the fun stuff. By the way, my work is actually excellent on the therapeutic front AND I do the fun stuff, which also a rare find. If you’re like me and appreciate really deep, highly skilled therapeutic work and don’t care about extras, you will really enjoy seeing Robert. He’s not on any of the usual sites, just his basic personal website linked above. His schedule is fully booked every single day for 6 months solid, which is as far out as his system will allow you to book. The ONLY way to get an appointment with him is to sign up for his waitlist, which will alert you when an appointment becomes available. If you mark 60 or 90 minutes you are more likely to catch a cancellation slot. If you mark a 120 mins appointment those cancellations rarely pop up. If I could do two hours, I would, but it’s very difficult to get those on a waitlist-only booking policy. Plus you have to be fast and book right when the alert pops up on your email or text, otherwise it goes away in minutes. If anyone else sees Robert, please do share. I expect nothing but positive things from those who read this post and go in with the correct expectations. The only negative is his lack of availability. However, he’s totally worth every penny and the hassle.

Paul Kubek is great to work with. Reasonable cost and high quality. He listens to your needs. Based in Dallas. He does “boudoir” style shoots and nudes of all kinds although those may not be immediately apparent on his portfolio pages. Dallas based gay photographer helping the LGBTQ+ community share stories | head shots, social media portraits, weddings. WWW.PAULKUBEK.COM Dallas based gay photographer specializing in head shots, social media portraits and wedding...

I’ve done foursomes for clients. All three of us providers are very professional and understand that it’s not paid playtime for us, although the client gets off on watching us perform live for him. It helps that none of us are in a relationship with one another. It keeps business strictly business. We make the client the focus. We all grope him from three sides like a big group hug, and kiss, stroke, lick, and stimulate his whole body, frequently switching positions, roles, and activities. We involve all of us in any given moment, and of course the client is in the middle of all the action and calling all the shots when he feels like calling them. The rest is intuition and knowing what the client likes doing and being done to him and what he likes to see others doing, and we all lean into those things. Another plus is taking advantage of all our individual strengths and talents and combining them. Yes, we may look a bit different from one another, one older, one younger, and me in the middle, but the beauty of it is diversity. The client gets off on the whole buffet, not just favoring and being distracted by the “hottest”, or youngest, or most hung, etc. The result feels more like 1+1+1 = 6. You could hire us all individually and enjoy all of the separate meetings (and this particular client has), but together it’s a massive, explosive experience. Worth trying at least once in your life. Meetings like this I consider successful. If you’ve ever wanted multiple providers before but have concerns like those already mentioned in this thread, the key is to hire the right providers. Professional men who ‘get it’, and ideally know one another, get along well, and have worked together before in a similar capacity. If they don’t know one another prior, they should at least have experience with similar arrangements. When the client is spent (after a very long time of buildup), he likes to watch us continue and will still touch us and find pleasure in what we’re doing. It’s 100% about the client’s pleasure. The second he shows any wavering of interest we either stop or change to a different activity. We providers can hook up with one another on our own time, if we wanted to, although we don’t. It’s not about us feeling good or getting off. It’s about client satisfaction. For us, it’s business. We’re really good at our jobs and we want to get paid fairly for doing it. And we do. Win-win-win-win! I play well with others. As it goes, I tend to be the ‘madam’, organizing these types of meets. To be clear, this isn’t trafficking. It’s independent guys choosing freely to work together for an agreed-upon fee. Basically informally arranged contract work. If booking multiple providers interests you, I highly recommend booking these things with at least a few days notice, or more if possible. Getting schedules to align and coordinating things takes time. Sometimes it all works out with little notice. More often, it’s not possible to arrange something on short notice. If you’re in my area or if I am traveling to yours, hire me! If I haven’t worked with someone before, I am willing to arrange a consultation with the other guy(s) you want, to see if it would be a good match and go from there.

It’s also about the value you are providing to each client, not just the time spent. I would charge much differently for a gang bang to repeatedly work me over than I would for one client to do the same. The value to each client is basically the same, but the escort is realizing half that value in terms of compensation. Do whatever you are comfortable with. I would insist on knowing what to expect beforehand, however. If you consented to having the second person, all good, but it’s a basic sign of respect for the client to inform the escort of what is happening during the session. Some of my best clients have been couples and they each compensate me their share. Not always 1:1 what I would charge them individually, but close. Sometimes the same. If it’s one fee for two, I agree to that ahead of time, but I usually don’t do that.