Simon Suraci

I’m one of the few who offer 1/2 hr service. However, it’s just for massage, and not a full body massage, at that. And I charge a slight premium for it. It’s usually just my leg and lower body routine (most popular), or neck and shoulders, or specifics per client request. I’m with you guys on the overnight situation. I don’t do very well sharing a bed with anyone, not even my partner. Cuddling is fine, but when it’s time to sleep, I prefer having plenty of my own space, ideally in a separate room. This is why I discourage clients hiring me for overnights, but I will do it for the right fee if they absolutely must have that experience…of me snoring, and being grouchy in my sleep, tossing and turning, hogging the blanket, being too hot, and morning breath and seeing me in a sleep mask, etc. Ugh. My value is in my waking hours. Unless you want to keep me up all night. Then I will really have a peachy and lively attitude for you to enjoy by 5am! I’ve thought about calling these a BDSM session because it’s basically torture for the client 😂

Coming at this from a masseur perspective. I offer discounts or run temporary specials for massage and spa services. Things like: Day of the week discount Referral discounts Active duty military, student/youth, airline workers, first responders, etc %off for couples massages for a limited time, etc Book 4 spa services, get one of them free, or similar ….among many others Masseur Finder encourages these kinds of specials and discounts and rewards listing rank when you list them, so I keep it as consistent as possible across platforms, or when people ask for deals. Rarely do clients take advantage of my standing referral discount. That’s my best one for them and the most costly to me. It’s 50% off the referring client’s next massage, and 50% off the referral client’s first massage. That’s essentially giving away a whole massage. BUT it’s valuable to me in the long term because the referrals often become regular clients, and they tend to be better clients in general. In the short term, both the referral and referring clients both tend to tip generously anyways because they’re so happy to get such a deep discount, so it offsets the initial loss quite a bit. Win-win-win! Added benefit: buzz. The referral client and referring client speak positively about my work with one another, which reinforces both of their loyalty, and encourages them to refer others or speak positively about me to others. They feel invested in my success and also in the benefit of other people enjoying my work. They feel they have given something valuable to their friends, acquaintances, and loved ones, and feel good about it. I love referrals. Too bad so few take advantage, but when they do, it pays off. For traditional provider services (not massage or spa), I don’t discount. Not at all. Clients ask and pressure me. Or worse, they want the world for a massage price. Not happening. I say no and move on. I don’t want those clients. You can’t commodify this type of work. For it to be worth my time and effort, I set my fees accordingly. Also, most of my business is massage anyway. I don’t rely exclusively on the other work for my livelihood, it’s just another service I do for clients that want to hire me under equitable rates for it. Currently I’m at $300/hr and $500/ two hours. $1000 for up to five hours (not overnight). Don’t quote me two years later. That’s what it is now. Longer periods are negotiable, but I rarely do them. The $1k rate is more of a traditional escort service that usually includes event attendance, meals, drinks, or entertainment, etc. in addition to whatever happens privately.

@AZN_NYC, in this biz the scenario you described happens ALL THE TIME. It’s particularly puzzling that you had two good prior encounters and then the client was so inconsiderate the third time. Knowing his double booking behavior, however, frankly I am unsurprised. This happens at times, even with good repeat clients, although less frequently than with first time clients. It’s like they treat us like garbage and expect us to be available on call, hot, fresh, and ready in 20 mins in the same way you order a pizza. Those clients can go to hell. I have no patience for it. I agree with @Jamie21’s approach, I handle a lot of it the same way he does. When they do this, you can: 1) Refuse to see them again. Politely decline their requests. Explain -only if they insist on why- that they failed to meet their commitment last time, and failed to communicate, and that you won’t see them anymore. You don’t need to explain how much it put you out, how it cost you other bookings, frustration, wasted your time, travel costs, etc. I feel all the same things you do, TRUST. But clients don’t give a shit about you, especially this guy, and others like him. He cares about himself only. He’s an asshole. Don’t tolerate working for assholes anymore. Save your breath too, because he will continue his bad behavior no matter what you say. Cut your losses and move on. Eventually you will develop a thicker skin to better weather situations like these. They will happen again. It’s unavoidable in this industry. 2) Or…require a sizeable deposit for that client next time, like 50%. Explain, if they insist, that they failed to meet their commitment last time, and failed to communicate, and that you will only see them if they send a deposit. Many clients freak out and refuse to book when you require a deposit, and for good reason. Deposits are discussed ad nauseum in other threads so I won’t get into it that much here. Since you both have had successful meetings in the past, he should have every confidence that you will follow through on your commitment, not be a scammer, and not have the usual common concerns with sending deposits. If he refuses, there’s your answer. He’s clearly not serious enough to demonstrate in any meaningful way that he will fulfill his commitment to meet, or at the very least, communicate. He’s also not sorry he stood you up before either. If he was, this is his opportunity to make good. He will likely refuse and move on to the next guy he can mistreat and waste his time instead. That’s a client you don’t want, no matter how many successful past appointments you’ve had. Cut the cord. Force his hand so you can confidently move on and mentally refocus on the right clients and opportunities, and not let him continue to drain you emotionally. Here on COM for the most part you get good clients who are more considerate and communicative than the average client. I’m sure nobody here in this forum is raising their hand saying “I’m the asshole!” and defending the types of bad behavior you described. Those clients are *usually* elsewhere, in the wild. This forum is an oasis of civilization. Out there, it’s pretty bleak. Work on that thick skin. I’m continuing to work on mine.

Glen (BodyLogic) is a personal friend of mine. We’ve traded a few times. He’s certified and works in San Francisco and Dallas. He’s a flight attendant, living in both cities. In the past he’s worked at places like Massage Envy. Before Covid he owned a corporate massage business with Andrew Eric. Haven’t seen Andrew Eric, have no experience positive or negative. Glen gives a decent massage. He has many strong opinions if you get to talking with him. PM me if you have any specific questions.

I wholeheartedly recommend Dann. Very good massage. He offers esthetician services as well, like waxing. I went for massage enjoyed his work. We chat at the gym from time to time. He’s sexy, and such a nice guy.

Yes, to be fair, I agree with these positives. To be fair, I only saw Tim briefly. He ended the massage 5-10 mins into the session due to a family emergency. He didn’t charge me, which I felt was appropriate. Still, I can tell right away, even after a few mins whether someone is talented. The massage trajectory was a resounding….meh. Still, better than Mason of course. Tim is a great looking guy in person.

Mine: Freschatta Prizone My partner’s: Callison Vane I’ve considered: Nika Xena Twist (Aussies may appreciate that one more…) Irma Gird Una Vail-Bull Freesia Asshoff

@wolverine26tx Oh yeah, the wallet in back pocket conversation! Thanks for jogging my memory. My shorts have no pockets, so I keep my wallet in my murse 😆 Same feelings as @Lohengrin1979. This is one of the few times I regret not cutting it short and leaving. I hope for Mason’s sake and every unsuspecting client’s sake that he pursues other employment. This gig is clearly not working for him.

https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/45255/ He’s back advertising after a long absence. I tried him in August 2021. One of the worst masseur experiences ever. Figured he was gone for good because how could he survive when offering such bad service? I assumed the problem resolved itself without the need to report. Since he’s back, I want to warn others in Dallas or visiting. Also curious if anyone had a positive experience with him. It was NOT A MASSAGE. He started using a theragun and I asked him to use his hands and arms instead. He insisted and complained that his arms get tired and his fingers are sore from texting all day. Barely even put his hands on my body. I was not trying to touch him at all, and he encouraged me to do so, saying mutual touch is part of it. I said no thanks, I’m good. He placed my hand on his body and complained that my hands were too cold. Tried not to go there but he forced the issue and made it seem like I was putting him out. He was in and out of the massage room at points doing who knows what. I booked two hours, and it was the worst $200 I have ever spent. It was a total of 30 mins on the table. The rest of the time he was taking me in his shower for a body scrub, or laying me on his bed to cuddle, or talking a really long time before we started. By talking I mean him talking AT me, standing there rambling for a good 15-20 mins before we even started, on topics I showed no interest in. I did not book or ask for the bed or shower services, but he insisted we do them, even after I expressed a desire to do the massage instead. After a long while, with my body tense and stiff, I told him I was uncomfortable with the bed situation and wanted to get back to the massage. Begrudgingly, he brought me back to the table for more theragun nonsense and brief moments of barely touching my body. In the shower (again he insisted) he went on an on about his teenage traumas working on a railroad or some other blue collar job and made comments about how his penis is very sensitive from an injury years ago and that it hurts when people touch it (weird?). Again, I was making no advances and showed no interest in mutual touch. I could care less about his penis, and him talking on and on about it made me uncomfortable. I can see how he would appeal to a lot of men who just want some company and like his look, and want to listen to him ramble about himself. The cuddle thing probably appeals to many. I just have a hard time squaring the fact that I didn’t book those services. I offer cuddle therapy and body scrubs myself so I get it, but I don’t force my clients to do alternate services when they only booked massage. So strange. My theory is that he has no massage skills to begin with, or that he has overworked himself and can’t deliver because of it. Mason is one of the guys on MasseurFinder who keeps on top of the listings by religiously updating his photos and doing all the criteria MF requires to keep your listing at the top. Another one doing this is Tim. He has no skill either (aside, had a bad experience with him too), but he’s attractive and that’s probably what helps him skate by, just like Mason. I don’t feel the need to stay on top of the listings since I stay plenty busy. It’s a lot of effort to be consistent enough to stay on top.

@Tygerscent I’m never put off by others traveling through or fearful of competition in my market. I feel no need to raise or lower rates. I get enough clients to keep me busy working. Let the other guys get the business from clients to whom they most appeal. I can’t be them, but they also can’t be me. The people who want to see me want me specifically. I’m not the hottest or youngest, most muscular, or whatever other quality you want to apply, but I have my own unique appeal that others can’t offer. Surprise, surprise, some of those qualities aren’t based on looks either, although I acknowledge looks matter quite a lot. In that sense providers are not a commodity. As long as you don’t charge extremely high or extremely low rates, clients choose you because of your particular appeal to them. That’s not to say nobody compares rates and that rates do not affect hiring decisions. BUT if rates are relatively close in a given market, it doesn’t influence the client that much because his priority is a good experience, not a slightly cheaper one. A great experience for the going rate = perfect contentment. A great experience for a lower than average price = bonus, elation! A bad experience at a lower than average price = regret. A bad experience at a higher than average price = resentment. A client looking for a bargain is not a client I want anyway. I value quality matches over quantity. Let the other guy have the bargain business. I feel empowered saying no and not feeling like I have to undercut to make my living. The sweet spot is confidently saying no to a minority of inquiries. If you say yes to everyone all the time, you’re doing something wrong. When you’re having to say no to most everyone, it’s also a sign you’re doing something wrong with your business model.

Clients ask me the same types of questions at times. Sometimes I answer truthfully, sometimes with whatever they want to hear, depending on what they’re asking for and what they’re currently hiring me for. Sometimes what they want is fantasy and that includes some air of illusion about me, what I do or don’t do outside my time with them. Well told stories are part of the entertainment they want, whether true or fabricated. With good, trustworthy, regular clients I am completely transparent. However, I never divulge remotely identifying client information. That’s sacred. Maintaining client privacy is very important to me. If only I can share the drag names of people I’ve worked on because the names are so funny…but I won’t because it goes against my privacy policy.

Just depends on the provider’s business strategy and whether it works for them. Posting related recent thread regarding hiring one hour vs two:

Yes, it can be difficult for some to provide good top service within less than 24 hrs of the last full service appointment. Some use pills, some use quad/trimix, which has been discussed at length in other threads. Others are all natural. Injections you can only safely use once a day*. As I like to say, we’re not machines. If you want us to serve a wide variety of clients, we have to recharge our human physiological batteries. Even 20 year old kids with raging testosterone levels can’t make it happen 100% of the time, much less a guy in his 30s, 40s, 50s or beyond. This is also a reason (a bad one, I might add) that some top providers get picky about who they see, not for gratification per se, but for concern of not being able to deliver. Add to that more than one request in the same day and you’re asking for disappointment. Some can do it. Others can’t. Not everyone is medically able or willing to use chemical help. Be grateful he is being realistic and not promising you the world and delivering a limp noodle upon arrival. Good for providers who know their own bodies and limits. This business principle applies: under promise, over deliver. *consult your doctor. This is not medical advice.

I reached out to Jeremiah a few months back, but no response, so I let it be. Sucks because I appreciate a good therapeutic massage and his ad and rates seemed more promising on that front. Thanks for sharing @wolverine26tx. I would be more inclined to reach out to him through email or try texting again.

These types usually have personal assistants and have providers sign NDAs. The PA functions as the agency, in effect. I know, because some of them have hired me. And no, I can’t discuss them for obvious reasons. Someone requiring that level of discretion and can’t do with a simple burner phone strategy typically has plenty of money and has some degree of fame or notoriety. There’s a very narrow band of people where wealth and discretion needs fall where someone is less than having a PA arranging NDAs but more than being your average high earning profession regular Joe. It’s quite specific.

This is why I can’t make business sense of traveling for work to NYC. It’s crazy expensive and I am competing with god knows how many local guys. It’s a buyer’s market and clients can flake at the flap of a butterfly wing because they know they can get whoever’s available within the hour should anything not work out on their end. I’m also not the washboard abs type, where abs are dime-a-dozen in the city. I’m wondering if a concierge service is truly necessary in a market where you have so much choice.

And for some, they have many professional talents, and intellect, to boot. For example, I’m a licensed architect with a decade of experience designing and leading teams on resort hospitality and multi family residential projects. I love my jobs and I’m very good at all of them. Sadly, this work pays 2X more than all those years of school and training and experience I invested in my professional career. It takes just as much investment to be a doctor or lawyer, yet my sisters who are schoolteachers make about the same. Sometimes it’s about doing whatever makes sense for you to live your life in the ways that work for your goals. I truly do love architecture, but at the end of the day, money is more important. At least this way I can retire before I die.

Client: Do you offer a senior discount? Me: That’s like asking for a student discount on textbooks.

I have. Several years ago though so my experience may be dated. Good experience. Happy to discuss. PM me.

I agree. There’s no harm in asking. Don’t let that scare you away. My first gut reaction is to pass on “ASK” rates as well because the chances of the guy being a good fit for my particular needs and budget is lower, but you never know! It only takes a few seconds to ask. Worst case is he quotes something you’re not comfortable with and you politely pass and move on. Very little time or effort lost. Still, I feel the best approach is to post regular massage rates publicly. If he has any other rates for “more than massage” it’s perfectly fair to share and discuss those privately.

Agree, something is off. He’s probably had work done on his face or photoshopped his face onto another body, or facetune, or something else, or a combination? Just seems weird to me. Maybe he has a really short neck to begin with. Who knows? 🤷‍♂️ I’m sure he looks great in person, so I don’t see a need for all the photo shenanigans.

You’re not wrong, @tenderloin. This is time wasting behavior as we frequently discuss, but in the other direction. Every masseur or escort should have rates ready to share upfront, or at least a range if they have a complicated pricing structure. It’s a really bad sign if they are not forthcoming about what they charge. Keep in mind the guy may have some questions for you first so that he can accurately quote you. And those questions should not have anything to do with the way you look. Things like host or travel/distance, how long of a session, which activities, and so on. It shouldn’t matter if you’re in a different city at the time of contact. If anything, that’s better because you’re a proactive, cool headed client. Never a bad sign in my book. Just my opinion. Some guys only take same day / last minute. I will never understand why. I’m sorry, $500/hr with a two hr minimum is insane. He’s either one of the most desirable, popular porn stars/instagays, or a deluded individual. In either case, he probably doesn’t need to do this work as his main income. He’s fishing for only the really big fish and hell if he cares that most days he has no fish at all, of any size. Once in a while a big one bites, and that’s just gravy money on top of his other income stream(s).

Yes, ideally we should wait to post full, detailed reviews. That, or post an abbreviated review and add all the information to the actual review once that section goes live. I’ve been holding off so as not to duplicate efforts.

^THIS! Sooooo many clients do not understand what they’re asking for when they request an outcall and expect to pay the same rate as they would incall (or expect $20 for gas to cover it 🙄). I get people asking me for a 1-hr outcall and they’re over 90 mins away. That works out to half a day of my time..and they’re baffled when I quote them a hefty fee or flat out say no, it’s out of my travel range. Thank you, next. Since clients are so clueless with regard to how much extra time outcalls take, applying a minimum time is one way to overcome the high time commitment vs low fee. I’m surprised more don’t do it. A lot of masseurs do outcalls for no fee or a nominal small fee $20-40. I don’t compete with them. For me, it doesn’t make sense to spend half my day NOT getting paid when I could spend that same time doing incalls getting paid for the whole day. For masseurs who have only one table, it takes extra time on top of the travel to take down and set everything up, including packing up speakers, oil, linens, and any other extra stuff. That adds an extra hour. Think about it: 15 mins x4 to do this before leaving, after you arrive, when you leave, and again when you get back to your home base. That’s an hour I can’t take other appointments or have to myself. Let’s say a client is 30 mins away and the traffic gods are on your side: 1-hr for the massage 1-hr for takedowns/setups 1-hr for travel That’s still THREE HOURS for (1) hour of fee! And people wonder why I have so many hangups about doing outcalls. I only do them when I’m not as busy, for trusted good clients, higher fees, longer appointments like couples massages, or some other reason that makes sense. I don’t drop everything for 3+ hrs of my day at the drop of a hat for every Tom, Dick, or Harry who contacts me. Sorry guys, I may be in the minority here, but I have my reasons. I don’t need to compete with the outcall masseurs, so I don’t.

Excellent point. Hiring is for everyone. It’s a convenient and time saving way to get exactly what you want, with who you want, when you want!