Simon Suraci

Ok fine, I won’t take it so seriously then 😜. We’ve all heard plenty from Jarrod about his frustration with clients, with no resolution. Let clients have a turn! Scream away…into the void…along with many fellow frustrated commiserators. And when you’re done, hire! 🤠

It just seems to me like we have some version of this discussion in the hiring section all the time. I’m fine with it here, but it’s so closely related to the other section’s topics.

Stop complaining. Hire the lower cost providers according to your budget, or suck it up and hire the higher cost providers (if you really want them), or don’t hire at all. It’s that simple. It’s not the providers’ problem if you can’t pay or don’t want to pay what the markets support. Save more, make more, or hire less often. Simple as that. We could boycott gas because we think it’s too expensive. That won’t make the cost go down because global demand remains stable. We all have direct and indirect transportation needs which contribute to that stable demand. Same with hiring!

@RadioRob Can we move this topic to the questions about hiring section?

I don’t see any problems with what he did except where he brings in his employer into the commentary and content. Saying things about your boss or coworkers in this context is unacceptable. The rest is fine!

Devil’s advocate here. So… if a single provider makes you cum twice or more in one session, should you be paying that one provider more? 😜 Hint: tip your top performing boys. The way I view it is you’re paying for a unique and worthwhile experience regardless of the number of times you cum, or even if you cum at all! Also, any given orgasm can be rushed, lackluster, or given in a suboptimal way. Arguably the provider (if you’re paying for sex work) should get you off, but really you’re technically not paying for orgasms or a quantity thereof, rather the experience overall of being with one or more men for a certain period of time. Some of my erotic massage clients get a mind blowing happy middle and a happy ending. Yet, they’re paying me half as much per hour or less than I should be charging for escort work. If we’re talking orgasms as a measure of value, I’m way underpaid. But I don’t see it that way. All this to say that quantity of orgasms is not a good or fair way to charge, or to pay, or to set expectations, for your hired men services. This applies regardless of the number of men you hire for a given session. It’s all about the experience and what value you find in having it, and also what is equitable for the men who are spending their valuable time giving you a premium service. If you can’t afford multiple, I get it, don’t hire multiple. If you find value in the experience of hiring multiple and you can afford it, then hire multiple. If you don’t find a commensurate value in hiring multiple, I get that too, and in that case only hire solo. For some men, the one orgasm while having a really special experience with multiple hires is well worth two or more solo hires. It’s all in how you value the experience, and if that value matches up to paying equitable rates for each hired man. When those match, why not go for it?

Sometimes it’s slightly less to hire as a couple vs both individually. Depends on the duo. I would ask the one you like better directly if you can hire him solo. The worst he will say is no. In that case you can still hire them as a couple or leave it at that and move on. No big deal.

Wow, you cats really did make something out of nothing. Nice 👍

I wouldn’t bring it up. Lots of men match on Scruff and never meet or chat. I wouldn’t ruin the hiring relationship you have now by mentioning it. Doing so implies you’re expecting him to offer you his time and talent for free because you maybe might have matched on that one platform that one time… If anything take it as a compliment and put it in the back of your mind. He probably doesn’t even remember.

Yeah… that’s steep for “therapeutic only”. Be wary of guys like this. If you have a straight fantasy fetish and he scratches your itch, go for it, but be prepared to pay a heck of a lot more for what you actually want. More like regular escort rates or higher. You’re not hiring someone like this for massage only, otherwise you would likely go with a skilled provider who charges close to going market rates. If you want extras, be prepared to pay much more than the advertised $220/hr, which is already above market to begin with…. Remember, guys like this have multiple income streams from OF, porn, and other platforms. They don’t need to charge realistic rates because this is not their main living. They can get away with charging a lot more than a reasonable market rate because they’re only taking a select limited few who are willing to pay for a specific straight fantasy “scene”. He’s an apple, while most of the other guys are oranges. Evaluate accordingly. Haven’t seen him but please do share if your experience is contrary to my assumptions based on reading the ad. Also curious if the massage is any good because usually the focus for this type of guy is not massage. Bonus if he’s actually good!

Various service providers from barbers, to hairstylists, to massage therapists and more use Booksy and are located all over. You might not find a large selection of service providers to search from in a given smaller city, but your massage guy (or other) can use Booksy anywhere. I even use it when I’m traveling, although my current imperfect solution is to block off my schedule over certain days so that my Dallas clients don’t book me when I’m in Oklahoma City, Houston, Austin, or elsewhere. Haven’t figured out a better way to do this yet since the service is primarily geared toward single location brick and mortar setups.

Yes, Booksy works very well for my massage clients. I include service descriptions, rates, automated self booking, schedule availability, and clients post unsolicited reviews directly to the site. You can even pay remotely online before or after your visit if you like. Everything is integrated. Even my Stripe card reader is integrated. I currently don’t leverage all of the marketing features but that has a lot of potential too. Overall, Booksy keeps me much more organized and saves me time, and saves clients time. A percentage of my clients really enjoy the streamlined service and use it enthusiastically. No texting or waiting for responses. All the info is there and it’s instant and convenient. Heck, a client can book me in the middle of the night while I’m asleep and I’m ready for them them the next morning. Most clients insist on the old school method of texting me 20 questions and then asking for an appointment, bla, bla, bla. More back and forth about availability….Then text again asking to reschedule, or cancel…I do it all for them on Booksy in much the same way they could do it themselves if they wanted to. All the info is there, so if they want to reschedule for another available time, they can just look and do it in a couple clicks. The savvy guys (and women) visit my site and find it much more convenient. They only text for very specific questions or to confirm something, or just to say hi. It’s really easy to use and makes communication higher quality because we’re only talking about things they actually need my attention to answer. Cuts down on a lot of unnecessary back and forth for those savvy clients. I don’t advertise every service explicitly, so clients still need to text me for that, but I still use the system to organize my schedule availability and contacts. I can even see under each client what they booked in the past and what they have booked in the future so that I can recommend services when they are inquiring again. If you want, we can start another thread on Booksy and other booking services. It’s a whole other topic worthy of discussion.

There is no universal answer. It varies with every masseur. I recommend asking for exactly what you want and see what the masseur says. General inquiries like “what does your massage include?” puts the burden on the masseur to name everything under the sun -sexual or otherwise- that he will or will not include. It’s exhausting answering this question over and over and over. The client knows full well what they want. They just aren’t willing to ask for it and it wastes our time to respond to such general questions. Here are a few examples of more specific questions to ask: “Do you include a happy ending?” ”Do you allow mutual touch?” ”Do you offer body to body massage?” FYI happy ending means a hand job only unless you specifically discuss other details. He may not offer more, and if he does, be clear on any uncharges for the extra service. Some may charge their full escort rate depending on your needs and expectations. All good things to know before booking.

If you’re looking for full service to occur in the same hour l but want half of that hour to be a massage or a massage “scene”, you should expect to pay the same hourly rate as hiring an escort. Equitable rates for equivalent services. If you want an actual full body massage that lasts an hour or more, expect to pay for that service on its own which may come to around half the rate of an hour of full service PLUS the full service rate, which may last up to an hour beyond when your massage time ends. Discuss with your provider of course. If you’re getting a deal, good for you, but I would expect to pay something along these lines: Example two hour session: 1 hr massage = $150 1 hr full service = $300 Total = $450 Example one hour session: 1/2 hr “massage” = included 1/2 hr full service = $300 Total = $300

Tip: douche as normal. The shower nozzle is preferable to the bulb types (my opinion). After you’re running clear, stay in the tub/shower or wherever you are and lay on your left side. Lift up your chest. This helps collect extra water from your lower intestine and flush it down toward your rectum and out of the body. Do this a few times alternating between sitting, standing and laying again. Move your chest up and down as you lay on your side. It helps expedite the process of eliminating the extra water. Take extra time to move around switching body positions and wait for it to drain. You can’t rush the process without risk of an accident later.

This guy looks just like my best friend. He’s an American army vet and bi. Maybe I can convince him to start working…🤔

So sad.

I don’t see the point in posting statements like these to ads. The time wasters are going to do what they do regardless. If anything, they are the least likely of anyone to read and understand -much less respect- the statement, or anything else in the ad. If someone can’t afford to hire and they know full well they can’t, they still reach out and waste time asking a bunch of questions. Hiring is a fantasy. Engaging a provider makes that fantasy feel more real, even if you don’t meet the guy. I get it, and I can’t stop people from doing this. It’s just part of the business I have to deal with on a daily basis by filtering out the bad apples when they start showing red flags. As soon as they do, I make my best effort to decline them politely end the conversation. When necessary, I go the extra step and block them. Meanwhile, by including statements like the above on the ad, you put off some of the would be serious clients by making them feel like they’re bothering you. Not everyone who contacts you is going to book you. That’s normal. No amount of complaining or disclaimers is going to change that behavior.

Various translations: “I couldn’t be bothered to tell you I can’t fulfill your appointment.” “This gig is much more important to me than your appointment.” “I expect you to have huge gaps of flexible, unplanned availability for me.” “I intentionally double booked hoping one commitment would fall through.” “I intentionally didn’t bother to check my schedule, and by doing so, I unintentionally double booked. Deal with it.”

Slightly different take on this situation from the provider side: This week I traveled to Austin, TX for four nights and rented a house for my massage biz there. I was booked back to back every single day from morning until night, even the morning of checkout and the evening of check in. It was crazy. Successful business trip! Every single client showed up at their agreed upon appointment times, or slightly early. I was amazed. Per usual, I maintain 30 min gaps between clients for cleaning. During whatever is left in that time after the client pays, chit chats, etc, I clean everything first and then frantically attempt to respond to countless texts, messages, and alerts I couldn’t attend to during the last session. I respond to as many as possible and tell clients I am about to start another session in 10 mins, and that I can respond to them right now or after the next session if they miss me. Plus send them my blocks of availability, prices, pics, service descriptions, or whatever else they were asking. Meanwhile I’m sanitizing everything and changing linens and doing laundry and grabbing a very quick snack, using the bathroom…there’s a lot going on and I’m frazzled AF. In one such instance, a client books me in the frantic 30 min gap and I gave him the time I was available, he agreed, I sent him the address and info, and then forgot to actually add him to my booking app schedule. Later that day as I finish cleaning and catch up on messages, I look at my schedule and take a sigh of relief. Wow, I actually have a two hour break! As soon as I sink into my living room easy chair with a glass of water and close my eyes, there’s a knock at the door. A client is here! I invite him inside, and feeling a little flustered, said I wasn’t expecting him and he pulled up our messages that showed clearly he was supposed to be here right now. I remembered immediately and then realized in my rushed 30 min “break” between clients that I forgot to add him to the schedule. That’s the one thing that keeps me organized in the chaos and it was my fault for not finishing the process by adding him. I apologized and said as much and confirmed that yes I am free and we started the massage. Of all my appointments so far in the biz, this is the one time I had a client show up unexpectedly and it was totally my fault. And it worked out anyway because I booked him when I actually was available, I just didn’t record it properly. The rest have been clients not showing up, or coming way early, way, late, or on the wrong day. The wrong day scenario happens once in a great while. I never intentionally double book clients expecting one to not show up. If I don’t trust them to show, I don’t book them at all. I refuse future appointment requests from no-shows.

I charge all the same price.

This really bums me out when a guy has all the positive things you want in a masseur…except decent communication skills. If they only knew how wildly more successful they could be with a little business savvy. They would run circles around their respective markets. Thanks for all the contributions. Noted. Hope to try Brady eventually when I’m in AZ. Will be sure to employ persistence and patience.

Actually I price that way too for massage. It’s not a dramatic decrease but a nice discount. I agree, it’s just as much upfront work to prep for a 1-hr session as it is for a 2-hr session. My fee structure encourages clients to take advantage of a longer session at a better value. Likewise, it’s relatively more expensive on a rate per hour basis to hire for a short massage but less total overall session cost for my most price sensitive clients. All of my rates are quite reasonable in my local market, especially when you consider my massage quality and professionalism is very high compared to the majority of others in my area. These can change over time, so don’t quote me two years later, but here is what I charge now for massage only. Example fee structure: 120 min / $240 ($120/hr) 90 min / $195 ($130/hr) 60 min / $140 ($140/hr) 30 min / $75 ($150/hr) Some therapists charge rates within reasonable range for 60 and 90 min but then charge significantly more for a 2-hr session and I can’t work out why. Unless the long session is code for ‘more than massage’. Or they don’t enjoy giving long massages or perhaps don’t know how. Not sure, this price spike at the two hour mark always puzzles me when I see it.

For providers, it makes sense to me to hire additional time for company or to go out to eat, go to an event before/after, go shopping, hang around your hotel room, (some would say truly an ‘escort’ service). The first hour is a high cost, often in the range of double what you might pay for an hour of massage without any full service activities. By adding time at a lower rate, both parties benefit more than they would with the first hour by itself and then parting ways. Ask the provider if he has a fee structure for this type of arrangement. Some do. He may have a price for an “evening” up to x number of hours. If he doesn’t have a fee structure for this, and he’s open to providing the service at some price, propose something and negotiate. For massage, it’s different. You’re paying for a service, and if you want more time of that same service, you pay for it the at the same rate as the first hour of that same service. Even if it’s time spent afterwards not getting a massage just enjoying his company, his time is just as valuable. That’s time he’s NOT working on someone else for that same massage rate. Pricing will vary from provider to provider. He may charge $250 on the lower end. He might charge $400+ on the higher end. My rule of thumb is it’s reasonable for the client to pay the massage rate (if the provider offers massage service for a lower rate), or approximately 50% of the “full service” rate. Example: one hour of full service: ($300) + 1 hour of escort time ($150) = $450. Please note the above example is not the same as two hours of full service time. Using the same example, but tweaking it for two hours of full service activities, some providers would do $500 total (instead of $300/hr x 2 = $600). It all varies on the provider. Doesn’t hurt to ask. With the right mutually agreeable fee structure, I feel more time is a win-win.

@azdr0710 good advice. You don’t have to show your tracks if you don’t want to. Still, it’s pretty lame of them to block viewers. It’s a lot of potential business lost.