Simon Suraci

Slightly different take on this situation from the provider side: This week I traveled to Austin, TX for four nights and rented a house for my massage biz there. I was booked back to back every single day from morning until night, even the morning of checkout and the evening of check in. It was crazy. Successful business trip! Every single client showed up at their agreed upon appointment times, or slightly early. I was amazed. Per usual, I maintain 30 min gaps between clients for cleaning. During whatever is left in that time after the client pays, chit chats, etc, I clean everything first and then frantically attempt to respond to countless texts, messages, and alerts I couldn’t attend to during the last session. I respond to as many as possible and tell clients I am about to start another session in 10 mins, and that I can respond to them right now or after the next session if they miss me. Plus send them my blocks of availability, prices, pics, service descriptions, or whatever else they were asking. Meanwhile I’m sanitizing everything and changing linens and doing laundry and grabbing a very quick snack, using the bathroom…there’s a lot going on and I’m frazzled AF. In one such instance, a client books me in the frantic 30 min gap and I gave him the time I was available, he agreed, I sent him the address and info, and then forgot to actually add him to my booking app schedule. Later that day as I finish cleaning and catch up on messages, I look at my schedule and take a sigh of relief. Wow, I actually have a two hour break! As soon as I sink into my living room easy chair with a glass of water and close my eyes, there’s a knock at the door. A client is here! I invite him inside, and feeling a little flustered, said I wasn’t expecting him and he pulled up our messages that showed clearly he was supposed to be here right now. I remembered immediately and then realized in my rushed 30 min “break” between clients that I forgot to add him to the schedule. That’s the one thing that keeps me organized in the chaos and it was my fault for not finishing the process by adding him. I apologized and said as much and confirmed that yes I am free and we started the massage. Of all my appointments so far in the biz, this is the one time I had a client show up unexpectedly and it was totally my fault. And it worked out anyway because I booked him when I actually was available, I just didn’t record it properly. The rest have been clients not showing up, or coming way early, way, late, or on the wrong day. The wrong day scenario happens once in a great while. I never intentionally double book clients expecting one to not show up. If I don’t trust them to show, I don’t book them at all. I refuse future appointment requests from no-shows.

I charge all the same price.

This really bums me out when a guy has all the positive things you want in a masseur…except decent communication skills. If they only knew how wildly more successful they could be with a little business savvy. They would run circles around their respective markets. Thanks for all the contributions. Noted. Hope to try Brady eventually when I’m in AZ. Will be sure to employ persistence and patience.

Actually I price that way too for massage. It’s not a dramatic decrease but a nice discount. I agree, it’s just as much upfront work to prep for a 1-hr session as it is for a 2-hr session. My fee structure encourages clients to take advantage of a longer session at a better value. Likewise, it’s relatively more expensive on a rate per hour basis to hire for a short massage but less total overall session cost for my most price sensitive clients. All of my rates are quite reasonable in my local market, especially when you consider my massage quality and professionalism is very high compared to the majority of others in my area. These can change over time, so don’t quote me two years later, but here is what I charge now for massage only. Example fee structure: 120 min / $240 ($120/hr) 90 min / $195 ($130/hr) 60 min / $140 ($140/hr) 30 min / $75 ($150/hr) Some therapists charge rates within reasonable range for 60 and 90 min but then charge significantly more for a 2-hr session and I can’t work out why. Unless the long session is code for ‘more than massage’. Or they don’t enjoy giving long massages or perhaps don’t know how. Not sure, this price spike at the two hour mark always puzzles me when I see it.

For providers, it makes sense to me to hire additional time for company or to go out to eat, go to an event before/after, go shopping, hang around your hotel room, (some would say truly an ‘escort’ service). The first hour is a high cost, often in the range of double what you might pay for an hour of massage without any full service activities. By adding time at a lower rate, both parties benefit more than they would with the first hour by itself and then parting ways. Ask the provider if he has a fee structure for this type of arrangement. Some do. He may have a price for an “evening” up to x number of hours. If he doesn’t have a fee structure for this, and he’s open to providing the service at some price, propose something and negotiate. For massage, it’s different. You’re paying for a service, and if you want more time of that same service, you pay for it the at the same rate as the first hour of that same service. Even if it’s time spent afterwards not getting a massage just enjoying his company, his time is just as valuable. That’s time he’s NOT working on someone else for that same massage rate. Pricing will vary from provider to provider. He may charge $250 on the lower end. He might charge $400+ on the higher end. My rule of thumb is it’s reasonable for the client to pay the massage rate (if the provider offers massage service for a lower rate), or approximately 50% of the “full service” rate. Example: one hour of full service: ($300) + 1 hour of escort time ($150) = $450. Please note the above example is not the same as two hours of full service time. Using the same example, but tweaking it for two hours of full service activities, some providers would do $500 total (instead of $300/hr x 2 = $600). It all varies on the provider. Doesn’t hurt to ask. With the right mutually agreeable fee structure, I feel more time is a win-win.

@azdr0710 good advice. You don’t have to show your tracks if you don’t want to. Still, it’s pretty lame of them to block viewers. It’s a lot of potential business lost.

Very good point. I have many South Asian clients and see the full range from higher earning to lower earning. My South Asian clients really like me. Pretty stupid to turn somebody down because they’re some shade of brown. More business for me! Some (not all) have a great deal of internalized homophobia because of the cultural norms in the countries and families in which they grew up. Seeing me is a safe space for them. I’m glad to make a difference in their lives.

If anyone requests private pics of me on Adam4Adam I share freely. 95% of those do not display any sort of pic on their profile. I don’t mind. It means they’re interested and already engaging me in some way. It’s great marketing! Regarding private galleries, Rentmasseur is even better. It means someone is considering hiring your services. It’s a good thing. So what if they don’t book? Not everyone likes what they see (shocking!), and isn’t that kind of the point? To see if the man physically appeals to you? Often clients are on the fence or waiting until the right time, or planning a trip. Any number of good reasons apply. You never know. Even if it’s just a lookie-loo, who cares? More views = more clients considering hiring. Never a bad thing in my IMO.

Thanks @DrownedBoy love it!

Intuition. Good tops have it and use it. The best tops are ‘givers’, not ‘takers’. Attitude, consideration, patience, and empathy are all important and it’s difficult to teach those. If you have them, you will go far. With that said, techniques are still teachable. It’s magic when you know what you’re doing. There should be a Hogwarts for hustlers too.

This is one of many reasons only a select few are cut out to be successful providers. It’s a sacrifice you have to be wiling to make. That’s one of the reasons you pay so much for provider services. Very few clients seem to understand this. In the middle of all the various threads about prices and value I consider to myself this high cost of being a provider and wonder if anyone else factors this in. Across the board, you’re paying for someone to live their life in a way that requires placing your needs above their own. At least the good ones. Regardless of how attractive or well suited to your preferences they are. Remember that when you hire.

From my perspective, I completely understand this sentiment. Not surprised in the least.

I agree. It’s common and nobody should be scandalized by discussions of erotic and sensual elements. It’s not a big deal to say no, sorry I don’t offer xyz. It’s also ok to request a phone call if the provider is being sensitive to providing information in writing. It’s also ok to list erotic and/or sensual and have different definitions of what those mean and to clarify with the client “I offer abc, but not xyz”.

True, this is quite common. I’m not surprised by having lonely clients. It comes with the territory and I have many. It’s the lack of boundaries that catches me off guard and eventually I have to set boundaries for the client if they aren’t picking up on the signals. I try to be generous and cordial ,but there is a limit.

I was thinking more in terms of extras that you would normally expect to pay more than the massage fee in terms of a different rate or à la carte. @NyGold what about those kinds of freebies? Time is one way of offering a freebie. I do it at times, when I am able. I’ve touched on this elsewhere, but it’s not uncommon for me to go over on time, by a little bit, schedule permitting, and if the client is ok with going over. I do it when I feel it’s adding value to the client, not just time for time’s sake. In fact, I pride myself on offering 60/90/120 minutes as your minimum time on the table. Not getting dressed or showering or chit chatting or paying. Like, actual table time. I want my clients to value my work, feel that they’re getting all the benefits they want, and that I’m being fair. For regulars, generous tippers, or people I really like for who they are as a person, I’m much more inclined to go the extra mile. I put in my best effort no matter who the client is, even if none of the above apply. Quality is always there. The extra quantity is the freebie. Some clients really need a 90 min massage to address their specific problems, but they’re only booking a 60 min. I might do 75 min to show them they actually do need it and I can meet their needs better if they book the appropriate session. Yes, I want to earn more, but more importantly I want to meet the client’s needs, and sometimes that means a longer session and demonstrating that value to them. I don’t do this for clients already booking sessions appropriate for their needs. Some truly only need a 60 min and I don’t see a value to them booking more, so I don’t even go there. The time component is one of the most valuable things I can offer. I do it as a matter of good business, to show goodwill and give the client more reasons to be loyal, refer me, and write positive reviews. Sometimes I advertise weekly specials like 30 extra minutes free, mostly to attract new clients, but also bring the others out if the woodwork who haven’t seen me in months. I don’t ask or expect to be tipped for extra time. If it was never discussed beforehand, I don’t think it’s fair to expect a client to pay more for extra time they didn’t ask for. Most clients don’t pay extra for going over, and that’s fine. I’d rather they be happy and return than pay more but see me only once or less frequently than they otherwise would. Some clients are very high maintenance, demanding a lot of time from me before I even meet them, or afterwards. For example, one client booked three weeks ahead for a three hour session and texts me every day. No joke, every single day multiple times a day for over a week, to talk about random things, more session details, his fantasies, and his life experiences. Long drawn out conversations. I think I’ve spent at least double his session time already and that’s before we’ve even met. That’s a HUGE freebie, like ungodly generous. I wouldn’t do it at all if he wasn’t booking me for a longer, higher fee session. Honestly, I would rather give him an extra hour for free in person than deal with all the constant random texting and demands for my attention and thoughtful replies. It’s exhausting. I started putting off my responses to deal with more urgent matters for that day and get back later, but being polite obligates me to keep responding, gradually less and less until we’re down to me only “liking” messages that are not direct questions. He finally got the hint and promised to not text anymore until the appointment date. And then he does it anyway the very next day. 🙄 Time is valuable, both on the table and off. If your masseur is being generous toward you with his time, especially if you’re demanding it in some form, I suggest being generous to him with how you tip. If you’re a low maintenance client (like most), then no, you shouldn’t feel obligated. Other time freebies I offer are coaching on various topics. About 60% of my clients identify as something other than gay and a fraction of those need some support or information, or have questions about gay stuff. Some of them want direction or intro to gay culture, sex, dating, or other topics. Some need orgasm training, conscious breathwork, or various recommendations. I spend extra time with them offering advice, resources, and other things to meet their needs and curiosities outside of their massage time.

I hear this. Clients differ though. Some would be disappointed in the lack of effort. Others have ED, prostate issues, or anxiety, or, like you, just aren’t feeling it. Some clients release without even being hard (not that uncommon). Some clients are very relaxed from the massage and aren’t hard, but get hard with some attention, and want it. Damned if you do. “Read the room, man” Damned if you don’t. “I’m disappointed he didn’t even try”

The outliers aren’t usually physical things. Way more often I screen for other red flags. I can deal with someone’s fat rolls. It would take a pretty extreme rare kind of offensive human being to prevent me from seeing them. You can look like Godzilla, I don’t care. I can’t deal with all the other issues we providers talk about on these forums. Won’t launch into all those again here.

That’s a good baseline. Something along the lines of $150 for an hour long massage vs simply hiring him at $300 for full service in the first place. Ideally each party agrees to what is happening and rates beforehand, but lacking that, I think this is fair. We’ve already discussed upselling elsewhere so I won’t get into it. I generally avoid upselling during the session.

Solid point. A provider really shouldn’t be in the biz if they can’t see a wide variety of clients, but it’s better to know upfront that the provider is unprofessional and avoid wasting both parties’ time.

Thanks for the input Kyle. This has been consistent with my experience so far. I get a lot more advance bookings this way, plus others filling in the remaining time once I’m there. I’d like to give the northeast a shot. Medium to smaller metros are on my radar.

Gotcha, thanks @56harrisond for the insight. I figured most of what the market wants can be found in Toronto because it’s the nearest big city, and if I’m not mistaken also the largest metro area in Canada. No promises but I’m considering travel to the northeast. I may have to add Toronto to a forthcoming tour including Rochester/Buffalo and other cities in the northeast.

Any sense of a demand for providers in your area @BuffaloKyle? I’m surprised at how quickly I book up when I travel to “smaller” cities, like Oklahoma City. Wondering if it may be the case there and if I can make economic sense of planning a trip near you.

This is so common. It sucks being treated like a discount sex worker. While it may be true that some masseurs are escorts or offer equivalent services, equitable pricing is different for each service. If you’re getting way, way more than massage and not being charged for it, be sure to tip generously.

I have the same approach as @Jamie21 I aim to give my clients a balanced, high quality massage, even with some detours for extra mutual touch. Some clients are particularly handsy, which I don’t mind. Occasionally I have to remind a client that I need to be able to move and that I’m not avoiding their touch, it’s that I can’t reach their whole body or continue the massage when I’m stuck in one position for an extended period of time. There’s only so long I can indulge their groping in one position before the massage quality and/or completeness suffers.

Back up!