Simon Suraci

Short pockets of time here and there I find to read and contribute. A lot of the time I’m busy working. Currently on a four city tour and it’s been a crazy busy time. Booked back to back morning to night every single day for weeks now. I’m exhausted. I enjoy learning more about the biz, trends, and how clients think. I do this for market research too. I’m also a client, at least for massage anyway. Sometimes people forget that. It’s entertaining here if nothing else. That’s probably the biggest reason I stick around. Clients tell me from time to time my approach on the forums directly or indirectly influenced their decision to hire me. That’s just a bonus. I could spend my marketing time more effectively in other ways. It’s just a positive outcome. You can learn a lot more here than you ever could on a short ad bio, and clients like that. Call me old fashioned, but I would rather read things here than on other major social media platforms for a few reasons: 1) No algorithms curating what I see or don’t see. Nothing reinforcing extreme content or views. If I don’t like something or have no interest, I make a conscious decision to scroll on. 2) A greater percentage of members are willing to engage in civil, thoughtful dialogue. More of us are invested in making our community better for everyone. Big social media is not like that at all. 3) The content is focused largely on shared interests and related niche MSM topics, more specifically those on hiring. That creates a natural filter for things I am more likely to be interested in, have experience with, or have something constructive to contribute. 4) There’s more space than 140 characters (or whatever limit du jour), and people here actually read. Sure we use images, but most of what we post here requires reading comprehension to engage. That’s refreshing when the rest of the world only has the attention span long enough to view a catchy headline or a photo. 5) It’s easier to search for and reference things.

@Unicorn Yes, I report and pay taxes on my income. Still that’s my concern, either way and not that of other members. I’m a big boy. No I don’t have all the answers. More favorable compensation, benefits, and terms would in theory make someone like me more seriously consider an arrangement. As to whether I personally would or wouldn’t take a client up on a specific offer is a separate discussion, and a private one at that. I hope you know I have nothing against you or your current relationship and make no judgments about it. Frankly, I’m not personally very invested in this topic. I just thought it was interesting to discuss. It would be nice to hear from others what they think is fair, compelling, or realistic compensation and terms for a sugar arrangement. I would like to learn more about how people think about sugar arrangements. I’m genuinely curious. Nobody has to listen to me or find value in my contributions. Feel free to disagree or disregard. It doesn’t bother me. The stakes here are so low. I just don’t care that much lol. I’ll end my engagement on this thread here.

The OP question is: “How much does it cost to be a sugar daddy?” The answer is: it depends. “On what?”, you might ask. Answer: On many factors. My response highlights only one of the major factors, which is the motivations and sensibilities of the hired man. Some require more financial incentive and/or specific terms, while others require less financial incentive and perhaps fewer or different terms. Without spelling out exactly what it would cost for each hired man under the sun, I offered an example in myself. For example, @socurious might be willing to negotiate an offer along the lines of $150k /yr plus benefits, whereas I wouldn’t because I have different motivations. I suppose you would have to speak to @socurious directly rather than me putting words in his mouth, but he seems eager based on his responses, so I’ll mention him as a counter example. The example in myself illustrates how different one’s costs could be based on who you are looking to hire. One guy will eat Popeye’s and sleep on your couch or in your bed. One may require all organic food and sleep in a guesthouse, or expect more perks or higher compensation. That’s why I say: it depends. @Unicorn If all of that makes me a “downer”, so be it. I don’t expect my answer to be palatable to everyone. You may not like my response, but it is honest, thoughtful, and it answers the question. It gives a framework for how one might think about the costs, since there is no single number or range of numbers to apply in every situation. To determine the total costs, you have to know the terms of your man, and his motivations. From there, you can build a list to calculate the approximate costs.

Divorce is a bitch no matter how relatively wealthy each party happens to be. Considering how much worse it could have gone, it sounds like a good settlement agreement. In some sense, yes, especially when parties are mismatched financially, which can change over time. All the more reason to consider hiring various men to directly satisfy specific needs. It simplifies matters.

Arrangements vary and the people involved are unique. I did not mean to Imply they are all the same or that others should think the way I do. I’m simply putting out an opinion based on my own sensibilities and motivations. What works for another guy may not work for me. My contribution is to shed light on a hired boy’s motivations, which directly influences how much it would cost to maintain a sugar relationship. That’s the OP question. Other opinions welcome. The hired boy may not currently make as much, and he may not care much about sleeping arrangements or “leaving work at work” as much as I do. Good for him. My point is to say for some guys like me it would take a lot more to theoretically attract and retain than someone else. Who your hired guy is and his motivations will determine how much it would cost. Also marriage is a whole other dynamic I won’t even get into. Sugar arrangements usually are not legal marriage, but great if that works well for your situation.

I find it difficult to fathom giving up my independence - my whole life really - in exchange for 150k/yr + perks. Especially when that arrangement will inevitably end in short order. I already make more than that, and at the end of the day I go home and sleep in my own bed in my own house with a whiskey neat on the nightstand, and nobody to bother me. Not even my partner because we sleep in separate rooms after spending our quality waking hours together. That’s the life! I sleep so well that way. A sugar arrangement might be better suited under a contract term, like for 6 or 12 months at a time. Kind of like renewing a lease on an apartment. Anyone done something like this before? When either party is not wanting to continue, there’s a natural stopping point and no drama about being “replaced” or illusions about depending on someone indefinitely, and the sugar daddy doesn’t have to feel bad about moving on when he’s ready. It’s planning for the inevitable and making the endpoint much more graceful and agreeable for both parties.

That’s definitely not a massage. Everything about this ad tells me you should hire him like you would a provider on RentMen.

At least you offer. I consider serious offers. Most clients ~95% or more requesting outcall service don’t offer and then balk if I require a travel fee to book. I’m more accommodating with regard to travel for escort appointments. Not so for massage. This is reasonable to me. You’re asking the guy to dedicate an entire day just to serving you. Yeah it’s a lot of driving, but you’re compensating for that. I think I would do it in this case, especially if you were a regular/repeat, and I happen to have the whole day still available.

^This. And consistency. I’m fully aware most clients can’t afford to do all the things @Coolwave35 does, and certainly not on a regular basis. BUT the basic principle applies. Do your research. Post on the forums when there is no existing thread (use the search function first), or find the appropriate thread by searching and ask there. Try a few providers for shorter sessions. There is some degree of risk in doing this. You won’t click with everyone, and that’s normal. That’s just part of the process. Don’t give up. When you find a provider you like, cultivate the relationship by hiring him with some regularity, and if you can afford it, for longer sessions should you really like something akin to a boyfriend experience. Anything you can do to incentivize your regular guy financially will make him loyal to you and prioritize you over other clients. This is a business. Our time and attention is best spent on repeat clients. The best clients are regular ones. Amazon wishlists and all the perks you can think of are great, but money paid directly is the greatest motivation.

I use other methods that I won’t share here, but also Mr Number. I take it all with a grain of salt. It’s not 100% accurate. Lots of the entries are from immature providers leaving comments for illegitimate reasons and I can usually tell pretty easily by the tone and language. I’ve run some experiments intentionally booking known problem clients just to see if the comments hold any water. The majority of comments are accurate. Some are not. I called a client out on his comments a while ago. He protested and showed me his texts with the providers that were clearly the provider being the problem. The client showed up and was not a problem at all. All was well. There is no perfect system. You have bad actors on both sides of hiring. Most clients are just fine. If you treat providers with respect, you have little reason to worry about getting comments. We use the systems available, imperfect though they may be. Providers use Mr Number to help keep one another safe and to help steer us away from known problem clients. Not just “annoying” clients. Plenty of those out there and we deal with them every day. Those are not a legit reason to post damaging comments. When a client is seriously impacting my business or my own person in a negative way, I feel the need to share it. I never add a comment because a client simply decided not to book with me. That’s asinine. I only do it in the following cases: 1) No-show with zero contact, no cancellation attempt, no apology, no excuse, no attempt to reschedule. Nothing but crickets for hours or even days later after multiple attempts to reach the client. (most common) 2) Abusive or harassing behavior, stalking (uncommon). 3) Violent and/or threatening client (uncommon). 4) Client intentionally attempting to receive services and not pay (rare). 5) Mental illness (rare). And I don’t mean disabilities. I mean someone who is seriously unstable, like they could be a harm to himself or others, unable to consent, or some other serious issue. Not generally “weird” people, that’s not fair. I get plenty of those. I mean something really serious. 6) Spam, fraud (unbelievably common). “Will you massage my entire boys sports team in one day?” lol so many weird schemes out there from Nigerian royalty asking for gift cards to female porn stars requesting massages and access to my payment information before receiving services. You name it, it’s out there, and it’s constant. Every. Damn. Day. If you advertise anywhere, you’re a target for spam and fraud. 7) Other extreme circumstances that I can’t think of off the top of my head.

Agree, it varies from provider to provider. For me, it depends on: the service requested, distance, location, and client. 1) Service requested. Outcall massages are a bitch and a half for me to fulfill. I know many other masseurs regularly do outcalls for no extra charge. More power to them. Those appointments do not make business sense for me. Few clients are willing to pay something reasonable for my time. Not just $20 for gas…like actually compensate me for the time I am devoting to fulfilling their appointment. This is lost on most people, so I just decline. To do massage outcalls without charging a considerable fee, it has to be a longer session, like a couples massage. Or I am really slow on a particular day, which I tend to embrace when those days happen because slow days are infrequent. I would rather have a break from my typical 7-day work week than work double the time (or longer) for the same fee. Packing up the table and all the accoutrements takes time. Setups/takedowns (x4; my place and theirs) plus driving time exceeds most requested appointment times. I don’t do bed massages either. Non-massage services, on the other hand, require much less time and the fee per hour is higher, which justifies the driving time. An outcall to a hotel 15-20 mins away is a no brainer. I don’t charge travel for locations close by. If it’s an hour or more both ways, I probably wouldn’t do it unless the client offered to compensate for travel. 2) Distance. If it takes longer to get to the location by nature of distance, I’m out. Generally one hour or less both ways, and usually only for non-massage appointments. When a client offers to compensate reasonably for going a long distance, I consider it. 3) Location. A client may be relatively close, but it may take longer or be a hassle because the location or timing is inconvenient. Here’s an example. A client requests an outcall massage at their hotel a few blocks away in a downtown area. I would have to find parking and pay for it, and it may not be that much closer to them than it is to me anyway. It makes more sense to schlepp the table blocks away on foot than park, but the client could simply walk to me or take a very short rideshare. If they won’t visit me, I decline. Another example. A client asks me to drive to a location that puts me in peak traffic before and/or after their appointment. It may normally be a 15 min drive, but it takes me an hour or longer because of the timing. Hard pass. 4) Client. For trusted regular clients, I am much more willing to go out of my way to serve them. Especially if they tip well. This is part of the ongoing relationship building and grows from mutual trust and respect.

No change based on time of day. Same price. Maybe discount based on a client hiring previously at a lower rate, but not for new clients.

This contest was on TV at the bar a couple week or so ago. They play all kinds of random obscure sports when the popular ones have a lull. I was trying to eat my brunch, sipping a mimosa, and looked up and almost lost my brunch. Begged the bartender to change it and she commented on how this is what we watch even as so many people live with food insecurity, both inside and outside our own country. So. Gross. I can’t even with this. It’s quintessentially American and one of the many reasons I feel embarrassed when I travel to other countries.

For non-sexual companionship services, I charge something more than my massage rates but less than my full service rates. Not by much, but a bit less. I do so because it takes effort and focused attention, but in a different way. Arguably it’s much more engaging and challenging than the small talk I have with a typical client at the beginning of a massage. The client wants my intellect and wants me to look good, perhaps touch me, and for me to engage them in every way but sex. That takes a high level of effort and personal connection. The companionship client typically wants more than an hour of my time, so it makes sense to do it. For full service, I charge $300/hr or $500/two hours. I charge $225/hr for à la carte companionship services. If the client wants two hours of companionship, that’s $450. Not much less than if they hired me for full service for two hours ($500). The companionship client may be less common than the full service client, but they are not paying that much differently. More commonly clients are interested in an escort session and/or boyfriend experience, depending on the terms you prefer. These typically include time in the bedroom, and time outside the bedroom. See recent thread on “BFE”. I charge $1000 for up to (5) hours of escort service. The sexual part is typically up to couple hours and the rest is up to the client to decide what non-sexual activities they most enjoy while spending time with me. My long escort sessions work out to $200/hr, which is a pretty good deal for clients interested in both the sex AND the rest of the experience…which could look very much like the non-sexual companionship service I normally charge $225 for. I suppose it all depends on the client’s sensibilities, budget, and priorities, but the longer the session, the easier it is for me to justify a lower rate. Example: I can do (1) five hr session for $1k, or (3) one hour full service sessions for $900. Realistically I probably can’t deliver on three clients a day for the latter, so the former makes a lot more business sense, even though the per-hour pay rate is lower. Another consideration is that the typical client who books a five hour escort session is far more likely to cancel, and more often than not in less than 24 hrs of their start time. That’s frustrating. On paper it makes business sense, but in reality it’s all a total crapshoot. My approach is I’m getting paid decently no matter what service I’m providing, so it matters a lot less exactly what I’m doing. Even some massage clients regularly spend $300 or more. The difference there is that I’m spending more time with the massage clients for the same money as I would make providing the other services over a shorter time. It’s easier for me to take multiple massage clients a day. It’s much more difficult for me to have multiple escort and/or sex work clients per day.

I’m quite skilled at lingam massage, tantric edging and erotic massage. I also offer various bondage elements as part of the experience, if desired. It’s no rub and tug. It’s all about the buildup of sexual energy. Not those mechanical two minute hand jobs you will get on most masseurs’ tables. I do more straightforward HE type stuff for the average guy, but for the clients who want it, appreciate it, and ask for it, I do really good lingam work. I have to know that’s what you want so I can program enough time for it and charge accordingly. For those who book me specifically for it, I coach some of my clients on tantric edging and walk them through exercises to help them improve on premature ejaculation issues and teach them how to have multiple orgasms, longer orgasms, non-ejaculatory orgasms, and generally more powerful, full body orgasms. It’s nothing new or groundbreaking but surprisingly few men know about these topics and even fewer have the discipline to pursue this wonderful spiritual practice. It’s especially refreshing to have someone walk you through it so you not only have the enjoyment of the session but you get value of the educational info to take home and continue on your own.

I second this. Clients: if you’re not comfortable, don’t. Providers: you have every right to ask. Nobody is obliged to pay a deposit, no matter how much sense it makes, no matter how fair it is. At the same time, no one can tell a provider how to run his business. Please, can we all stop talking about this? Do it if you want. Don’t do it if you don’t want. Don’t complain about providers asking deposits. Don’t complain about clients who don’t pay deposits. Everyone, respectively (and respectfully): MOVE ON!

I’m one of the few who offers a high quality therapeutic massage across platforms. Ask any of my clients. I advertise on MasseurFinder, RentMasseur, RentMen, and others. I offer the whole range of services, but my massage quality never suffers when a client is hiring me for massage, even when they are also hiring me for more (time and rate apply to each). Agreed, it’s uncommon to find a good massage provider who advertises in all of those places, but we do exist.

That is so messed up. Every client has different tastes. A single provider can’t be everything to everyone, so it makes no sense to change oneself to fit one client preference for one session. Those types are real jerks. I get these types of harassing messages too. The latest one (today) told me I shouldn’t be doing this in my 30s and that I must have been bad at my other career because only “desperate” people are in this line of work. He proceeded to insult me in other ways and put me down while simultaneously trying to convince me to service his needs. So. Gross. I had to block him. The other day, a client said in person as we were wrapping up a session, “no offense, but you’re a regular looking guy….”, and proceeded with some stories about other providers he considered a lot more attractive who were lousy hires. I know I am not the most attractive provider on RentMen, no delusions about that, but trying to be the most “beautiful” is not my schtick anyhow. I think he meant it as a compliment because he was saying he would rather be with someone like me because of how I am as a person. Just a really weird thing to say in so many paraphrased words, “I find you less attractive and I think you’re less in demand, but I like you better anyway.” I say be yourself, groom yourself according to your own brand, style, and look and how you want to be seen. Embrace your body as it is. Work out and control diet if you want to present a certain look. Or don’t if you don’t want to. The right people will book you for simply being you. Those tend to be the best clients.

Thank you @pubic_assistance #1 Agree. Not everyone knows their status, even if they test frequently. They could have an STI and not know it, and also genuinely not be lying about it. #2 Not a realistic option for providers these days. Easy on the client side if condoms are no problem for you, but you’re dealing with only yourself and your chosen providers, not the whole market. Tons of people require bb as a condition of their hiring decisions. A provider can offer safe sex only, but that severely limits their market. Also, for #2, performance can be an issue for some providers. It’s difficult enough to get it up for a client the provider has zero sexual interest in, much less stay hard enough long enough to get past a very tight stubborn sphincter. Getting and maintaining an erection is a huge problem sometimes. Condoms make that mountain at least twice as steep. Not everyone is willing or able to rely on chemical assistance.

I think this is true more generally of massage scene porn. Porn naturally demands a certain set of criteria, which may be very different from a real, private, in-person massage experience, even if that experience is erotic in nature.

This topic has been mentioned as an aside in various threads elsewhere, but I want to start a new topic specific to this subject. If it’s already covered in a dedicated thread, I haven’t found it yet searching the site. Please link if you know of a previous thread. Clients: How many of you ask for proof of STI testing and/or proof of PrEP regimen, such as a photo of a provider’s prescription, or a PDF of recent test results? Do you ask for proof in person? How important is this “proof” to you? Will you see providers without having this information on hand? Providers: How frequently do clients ask for some sort of “proof” of your medication, or STI testing? How do you respond to such requests? Relatively few of my clients ask. I decline clients with these questions for a few reasons: 1) Unwilling to share personal information listed on my tests and meds. I could strike out the info, but then it could be anyone's test or anyone's vial of pills. Without personally identifying information, I see no way to address the client’s concern. I could just as easily forge a document or take a pic of someone else’s pills and pass them off as my own. There’s no guarantee I am being perfectly honest, and no way to verify. This is why I put “proof” in quotes. 2) Another thing to manage and update and spend time on. A photo of my prescription won’t prove that I took my pills consistently for the past week, and I’m not about to shoot daily videos recording every time I take a pill with a piece of paper noting the date. That’s crazy. 3) A great deal of people contacting me on RentMen are flaky as it is without any extra special screening requests. Going through the additional effort to 'prove' something when the likelihood that they will cancel, not show up, ghost, etc anyway is as high as anyone else. Seems like asking for a lot. I don't have patience for it tbh. 4) Anyone who wants to have sex with me - protected or otherwise - should have realistic expectations of the risks and be willing to take me at my word. People who can't do either of those I really don't want to work with anyway... 5) I’m assuming the type of person who is requiring “proof” of testing and PrEP use is also a person who is NOT doing either of those things, for any number of reasons, which I completely understand. This client is placing the burden on me to be responsible for their own health. I can’t do that. I can’t guarantee anything. I can’t get tested after every client. Incubation periods alone make it impossible to detect sexually transmitted infections in real time. If I say I’m taking PrEP, the client has to believe me. At some point, the client has to take me at my word. I don’t see the point of spending extra time documenting my health practices because it offers no real “proof” to the client. It’s just another thing I have to manage and spend time on for those few clients who ask and insist. I get it. Some providers lie about their status or health practices. There’s nothing I personally can do to police them, and I see nothing more I can do than what I already do which is take my meds and get tested regularly (for me, monthly).

@nycman thanks for your feedback. I get your point and agree with it. Not everyone can do well at both. I think I’m generally better and more comfortable with most people in person, but I’ve never tried making content for online distribution. That might be worth exploring in the future. As far as advertising, if I’m good with in person meets AND digital, I would need to be careful about how, where and when I advertise. Maybe add a blurb clarifying I am on RentMen to offer in person meets and merely post the OF link somewhere without even mentioning it. Some people might be into both, or want to engage digitally before engaging in person. It’s nice to have the option.

I currently do not. Nor do any other media outlets feature video content of me. That could change in the future. Who knows?! Where would you want to hear about it, if I did upload some kind of pay per view or subscription video content? What do you think would be the most appropriate way to share it? Should I post to OF and never link anything to it or advertise it in any way? Include as a sidebar in my other service ads, but not be the focus of the ad? Curious what others would like to see. Considering previous comments, it seems no matter where I tried to promote myself someone would be annoyed at any mention of OF. FYI I’m using OF as a catch-all umbrella term that would include OF, JFF, and other similar sites, not just OnlyFans.

I agree. Anyone advertising on RentMen should be willing and able to meet in person. That’s the point. Just because someone does OF on the side doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t do in person meets. But I get it, some of them use RentMen as a misplaced advertising platform to plug their exclusively online presence. Clients browse RentMen to hire in person services for the most part. If clients wanted to view OF models on screen, they would go straight to OF. Kind of a waste of everyone’s time if it’s only a glorified ad/link for OF.