Simon Suraci

@Wolfer I agree with you. All the points you make are why I don’t upsell during the session and I don’t take the liberty to initiate any extras during the session that we did not discuss beforehand. This behavior is manipulative, and yes, we know men think with their dicks in the moment. It’s easy to take advantage. That’s why it’s so common. You’re right to decline any advances. A lot of clients don’t have the willpower or good judgment for this. It keeps both parties from being disappointed or feeling resentment. Good for you. For the rest of the pack unable or unwilling to discuss openly, or otherwise maintain boundaries, tip your guys! That’s on you for not having the wherewithal, and your masseur isn’t always trying to manipulate you. A lot of men want the extras and expect them, or even demand them. Masseurs are responding to this dynamic. If you get extras without any discussion, and you can’t or won’t discuss, that’s on you. You have choices: 1) take the extras without paying equitably for them, which is a recipe for resentment. 2) tip equitably and generously for something you truly enjoyed 3) grow a pair and ask the right specific questions beforehand to clarify what’s included, and what’s available for additional costs. Sometimes what you want is already included. When you discuss prior, you can proceed without any anxiety about the costs or feeling obligated to tip, or offending by not tipping. When something is an extra cost, you can calmly evaluate whether you want to pay for it long before the heat of the moment. Communication, folks. That solves the problem! I encourage clients to discuss everything they want beforehand. Unfortunately many of them are unwilling to do that for whatever reason. @Jamie21 makes a good point about the exploratory nature of his approach and I like that, but this only works because he is including more in his base pricing than most of the providers in the US do. For those willing to discuss beforehand, I lay out everything included in my base pricing and quote any other rates based on their specific needs. It’s so much easier when everyone is clear on what to expect. That frees me up to focus on delivering quality service, and frees the client up to focus on enjoying the experience. Anything I do without discussing beforehand I assume I’m giving away for free (which is rare). Most of the time it’s the other way around where clients are trying to initiate a lot more with me without any discussion. They silently assume they’re entitled to a lot more. I have to stop them and discuss. This is not an “upsell” because I am not initiating extras or pressuring the client to pay for them. It’s merely a boundary I set in response to the client pressuring me to do more. Unfortunately, so many men don’t respect the word “no”, but when I lay out pricing suddenly everyone falls into line. Sad it has to be that way, but that’s the only effective way I can maintain boundaries. Without it, I get people begging and pleading after I said no, or being aggressive or mean, or mostly just sad and disappointed. Tips and repeats fall off a cliff when clients are upset.

Yes, you can continue to post reviews here until the reviews feature is live. Spas and Masseurs section to discuss or review masseurs. The Deli section for escorts. Meanwhile, you can add Troy or any other service providers to the review database and edit the provider details later like specifying the masseur category. As far as I know it’s not live yet to be able to add all the category info, but that’s a start.

It varies from masseur to masseur of course, but many -I would argue most masseurs- in the US consider all of these extras territory that they either charge for explicitly or expect a hefty tip for providing. They might call it ‘escort’ service or avoid the term altogether. Full service penetration is obviously an escort service. IMO anything above HE is escort work, or an optional extra “freebie” the masseur should or otherwise would charge for. It’s a gray area. Lots of wiggle room among masseurs on how they draw their lines. Some consider even a HE to be an escort service, but that’s a minority opinion.

@Yellowrod and others: You might tell him you’re interested but the distance is a barrier. That would give him some sense that he’s in demand elsewhere and influence him to reconsider where he hosts or travels to in the future. You never know. For instance, I’ve planned travel to other cities based on how many clients expressed interest. Last I chatted with Edras, he was training to be a dental hygienist and that he planned to continue his massage work part time. Not sure where he’s at on his dental work, but that could be a factor in his decision making 🤷‍♂️

@EastbayMike @pubic_assistance I agree with both of you. If the masseur does a lot more than a HE, the client consents, and neither initiates a discussion on fees for that, that’s the masseur’s prerogative to offer a freebie. As always I advocate for discussing everything before the session begins so that there are no surprises when it comes to what you’re paying and what you’re getting. I realize that’s less exciting and that clients are notoriously chicken about discussing their explicit desires, but you’re never disappointed when you just talk about it. The client is not obligated to pay anything extra, even a tip. However, not so common courtesy makes anything less than a generous tip quite insulting for services performed way above and beyond. If you’re getting full service for 5 mins, 15 mins or 60 mins, it doesn’t matter. It’s still full service, which means the masseur should be charging comparable full service rates. It’s his business to charge those rates, or give freebies away in the hopes of receiving generous (non-compulsory) tips. Personally, I would rather hire for escort service and treat it as such so both parties are on the same page and the masseur/escort is being compensated equitably. If there’s a massage element, fine, but the real service on offer is sex, be it oral, anal, fetishes, or other sexual play. When your masseur goes down on you or sits on your cock, recognize that he’s going way beyond the call of duty. He’s leaving money on the table by not discussing rates beforehand, and you can certainly take advantage of him that way. I wouldn’t expect the masseur to repeat that same level of service if you’re not tipping anything significant to thank him. Then again, it’s up to every masseur to operate his business as he sees fit.

RentMasseur has the greatest range of guys from 100% escort to 100% massage and everything in between. You can get a great therapeutic massage on there, but it’s a smaller number of guys. Guys on RentMasseur have a wide range of massage skill levels. Agree with @MassageMePlease you shouldn’t have to guess at a basic massage rate. I tend to pass on those as well because it usually means escort rates with little to no skilled massage on offer, but not always. Nothing wrong with asking for a rate though. If they quote you rates conditional on information they ask about you, move on. They’re likely not very good. Agree with @Jamie21 most clients want *some* level of sexual fulfillment, whether that be seeing and/or touching the masseur’s naked body, to receiving a HE, and beyond. A minority of my clients are 100% strictly therapeutic. Clients at least want an attractive guy to interact with. How far it goes past that depends on the masseur.

Yay! So glad you enjoyed seeing him. He never disappoints. Thanks for sharing your feedback.

I like trans men. A lot of really beautiful ftm men out there I would love to hire if I were hiring.

^This. Hard agree. If an actual good massage is important to you, be mindful of the split. It’s usually easy to spot one type versus another. There’s a market for the guys who aren’t offering anything resembling actual massage. That’s fine, just know what you’re getting. The rates are usually the biggest indicator, followed by the pics, and of course the descriptions can be telling but not always. Evaluate them like you would an escort.

I agree with @Jamie21. If he lists erotic and uses language like “most of my body”, or quotes escort rates, he should be prepared to answer specific questions about erotic services. You are not the first one to ask, so he should have plenty of experience navigating his responses. Guys stating very clearly in their ads “therapeutic only” and have rates under $180/hr are signaling to you they are offering regular massage services. Anything “extra” is either not offered or perhaps varies from client to client. This kind of guy may say to you that he doesn’t offer erotic services. In that case, move on to the one who matches your needs/desires or be ok with a therapeutic only session. His rates are also a clue. Over $200/hr indicates he is most likely offering more than massage. It’s perfectly fair to assume with this type of ad that he can answer yes/no questions about erotic services. If he prefers to not put his answers in writing, you can request a phone call to discuss. Most will text.

Can you post his ad link? So I’ve heard over and over here that SD is slim pickings. I’m hoping to shake things up a bit after I move in August and set up shop in America’s Finest City. I’m looking for a work space in neighborhoods south of the 52, north of the 94, west of the 15, and east of the 5. Try me after the move. If there’s anything to improve I would rather hear it directly from clients, so feel free to reach out. I offer a great experience, but I am always growing and looking to improve my business.

Thank you, I will try again soon using the email method and report back.

I saw Steve once. He’s a nice sexy guy. A little too sexual for me personally, and not particularly great with the therapeutic side of the experience. I’m particular though and have very high standards, so take that with a grain of salt. He’s ok overall, but great if you want to push the envelope on the erotic end. As always, YMMV.

^This. I get this frustration from some of my clients. They love and value my work and see me over and over, but a lot of times I’m booked. Same day / last minute requests for very specific times are often not feasible. The more notice you can give, the better chance your masseur can see you when you want to have your appointment.

You’re welcome. I’m glad the post helped shed some light on the dynamics of pricing. I’m not here to convince anyone that they should necessarily be paying $400/hr across the board in 2023, but hope to give some context for how some providers land on a high number. If anything, I think the baseline number right now in 2023 is $300, before applying a myriad of factors to push it lower or higher. Some may disagree, and that’s fine, it’s just my opinion. Even $300 is high for many folks, and particularly harsh on those accustomed to paying closer to $200 just one or two decades ago. You will always find lower numbers and higher numbers, sometimes with no correlation to a subjective notion of quality. That’s just the nature of the beast. It’s up to the client to shop around, do some homework and determine his own measure of value and apply it to his specific situation. Between the choices available, he can decide who is the best fit for him. If ALL of the available choices cost too much, that’s the client’s problem, not a market problem. As always, COM is an excellent resource to do said homework. Your peers have seen the men you are considering hiring. Their intel is invaluable for helping you steer clear of the duds, and toward the men who are going to bring the most value to you. At the end of the day, you should feel really happy you hired, like it was a worthwhile amazing experience, money well spent. Homework can’t guarantee this result for you, but the effort of shopping around greatly improves your chances of success. With the above in mind, I encourage thinking about maximizing the value a provider brings to you rather than minimizing the cost of hiring altogether. If you’re going to drop any number of hundreds of dollars, it should be for the right experience for you.

In the United States, this is the minimum. If you’re hiring for less, good for you, but it’s not really sustainable for most, unless the guy works more than one job, perhaps in another field, or does OF or porn or dances or whatever. Let’s go, for the sake of argument, with the assumption your working guy does this full time exclusively. If a working guy has, on average, one client a day for 5 days a week, every single week of the year, that’s only $65k/yr!!! In what universe would I quit a professional entry level job to do that? In many areas of the country outside of middle America even 65k is not enough anymore to buy a house and/or live well. Hundreds of dollars per visit may be a lot to some clients, but you should consider the implications: you’re asking the provider to not work in other professions so he can be available to you at all hours of the day and night, on short notice, weekends, overnights, single hours, travel to you, spend hours responding promptly to countless inquiries, market himself, etc etc etc. He may go to the gym at 2pm, but that’s no matter. Maintaining his image is also an important part of the job. It’s work too. This a full time job, and you’re demanding he work it for the equivalent of $65k/yr. That’s livable in some areas, but obviously not at all compelling compared to many other “normal” middle class jobs. Yes, your man can have multiple clients a day, but let’s say even double (which is not realistic every single working day of the year btw), that’s still $130k. A great living, but still not compelling when you have skills and education in other fields and can make close to that amount in those fields, and gain a lot more security and respect over the long term. Let’s not forget that there is a time limit to how long most providers can demand the rates they do. You’re also demanding in your $250/hr max that a man put his potential other careers on hold and not advance in those fields for the sake of working for clients like you right now. There’s an opportunity cost to consider there. Not having skills and experience in other fields gives you less opportunity to earn a good living later in life. A guy in his 20s can demand a lot more because of his looks than a working man in his 50s, even if the older guy is an excellent provider. However the 20 something is taking a premium now in exchange for less opportunity later. In theory he can save, invest and make smart decisions to help him later on. I know some blow it all, but a smart one can leverage his short term premium earnings for success over the long term. And yes I acknowledge there’s always a market for each type, including older, it’s just who is able to consistently demand a certain rate based on mass appeal and still make a decent living over the course of their life. Taxes are another discussion. I pay taxes. Others may not pay on all their income, but even still, we’re not talking gobs more money vs if they did pay taxes on 100% of their income. You have to pay something, otherwise the IRS is suspicious and comes after you. Sidebar that topic, already discussed elsewhere. Just want to acknowledge taxes are a consideration, although not a big enough factor to consider when discussing the bigger question of minimum/maximum rates. Then there’s the matter of traveling providers. We’ve discussed it as nauseum elsewhere, but I want to acknowledge that traveling around to different cities has significant costs. That cuts into the bottom line. Whatever he might be saving on reporting a fraction of his full income he’s certainly spending on travel costs, and then some. Not to mention the cost of multiple online ads and other expenses. Now, for the sake of argument, let’s assume your working man has other income streams. Whether that be OF, porn, dancing, massage, other professional career, etc. He makes a decent living between his hustle and his other revenue streams, so he’s less desperate to get clients at any lowball price. In theory he doesn’t need to charge a high rate because his other income streams make up the difference. Maybe $250 is just fine for him in that case. However, the opposite is actually true. It makes less sense for him to do a lot for little gain, because he doesn’t need to. If his OF or other revenues are bringing in tens of thousands a year or more, he has less incentive to do the rough and dirty challenging work of taking on a diverse array of in-person clients. If he is seeing traditional escort clients, he’s doing it at a rate that is worth his time and energy. That rate has to be compelling enough to influence him to take on work he otherwise doesn’t have to because he makes a decent living without it. Maybe that rate is $300 or $400 or something else. So what if he has much fewer clients? It doesn’t actually matter to him because he isn’t relying on one income from those clients. A few clients take him on at his higher rate and then he has even less reason to work for less, considering he could take half as many clients and make the same! All of these reasons and more contribute to the prices being what they are today. It’s not a random high number designed to piss you off. It’s based on market forces and global changes in the industry. If you want to hire for an unrealistic maximum, good luck to you. The pool of guys willing to entertain you at that rate will continue to get smaller and smaller over time. They exist, and you’re not wrong for hiring them, but you are wrong to place an unreasonable rate cap expectation on the whole industry.

Traveling guys may differ from normal. They tend to have a captive audience depending on where they’re going and how long they’re staying. If few good options are normally available in a given market, that can drive up demand, and with it, prices. When I travel, I keep my prices constant and have no lack of appointments filling my schedule from morning to night. At least twice as many same day requests I have to turn down because I’m booked. I could easily charge more based on that high demand but I prefer having plenty of others ready and willing to snatch an appointment when someone else cancels or no-shows. Pricing is not a barrier to seeing me as much as availability is, so I fill in those spots very quickly with same day requests. Suddenly people get a lot less picky about start time when there’s one spot left, take it or leave it. $200+ for (1) hour of *actual* massage is bonkers. At that rate bracket, I would expect a lot of extras, rip-off schemes, unskilled massages, time shorting, or other unprofessional shenanigans. I charge $195 for 90 mins and it’s truly an excellent massage. My 60 min massage is $140. A lot of other pro masseurs hover between $120-$160. Much more than that and something is not right. Either that, or you’re getting much more than massage and you’re paying for it. Which is fine by the way, it’s just not fair to compare with regular massage sessions. It’s a different service. Apples and oranges. I acknowledge local markets differ. NYC, LA, SF and others will naturally be much higher across the board.

Ok fine, I won’t take it so seriously then 😜. We’ve all heard plenty from Jarrod about his frustration with clients, with no resolution. Let clients have a turn! Scream away…into the void…along with many fellow frustrated commiserators. And when you’re done, hire! 🤠

It just seems to me like we have some version of this discussion in the hiring section all the time. I’m fine with it here, but it’s so closely related to the other section’s topics.

Stop complaining. Hire the lower cost providers according to your budget, or suck it up and hire the higher cost providers (if you really want them), or don’t hire at all. It’s that simple. It’s not the providers’ problem if you can’t pay or don’t want to pay what the markets support. Save more, make more, or hire less often. Simple as that. We could boycott gas because we think it’s too expensive. That won’t make the cost go down because global demand remains stable. We all have direct and indirect transportation needs which contribute to that stable demand. Same with hiring!

@RadioRob Can we move this topic to the questions about hiring section?

I don’t see any problems with what he did except where he brings in his employer into the commentary and content. Saying things about your boss or coworkers in this context is unacceptable. The rest is fine!

Devil’s advocate here. So… if a single provider makes you cum twice or more in one session, should you be paying that one provider more? 😜 Hint: tip your top performing boys. The way I view it is you’re paying for a unique and worthwhile experience regardless of the number of times you cum, or even if you cum at all! Also, any given orgasm can be rushed, lackluster, or given in a suboptimal way. Arguably the provider (if you’re paying for sex work) should get you off, but really you’re technically not paying for orgasms or a quantity thereof, rather the experience overall of being with one or more men for a certain period of time. Some of my erotic massage clients get a mind blowing happy middle and a happy ending. Yet, they’re paying me half as much per hour or less than I should be charging for escort work. If we’re talking orgasms as a measure of value, I’m way underpaid. But I don’t see it that way. All this to say that quantity of orgasms is not a good or fair way to charge, or to pay, or to set expectations, for your hired men services. This applies regardless of the number of men you hire for a given session. It’s all about the experience and what value you find in having it, and also what is equitable for the men who are spending their valuable time giving you a premium service. If you can’t afford multiple, I get it, don’t hire multiple. If you find value in the experience of hiring multiple and you can afford it, then hire multiple. If you don’t find a commensurate value in hiring multiple, I get that too, and in that case only hire solo. For some men, the one orgasm while having a really special experience with multiple hires is well worth two or more solo hires. It’s all in how you value the experience, and if that value matches up to paying equitable rates for each hired man. When those match, why not go for it?

Sometimes it’s slightly less to hire as a couple vs both individually. Depends on the duo. I would ask the one you like better directly if you can hire him solo. The worst he will say is no. In that case you can still hire them as a couple or leave it at that and move on. No big deal.

Wow, you cats really did make something out of nothing. Nice 👍