Simon Suraci

Highly recommend Edras. He moved pre-covid to La Habra. Miss that guy. It was not uncommon for his boyfriend to be in the other room as he worked. Never bothered me, but see how maybe that would be a negative for some. Haven’t seen him in La Habra yet, hope to someday.

I reached out to Anthony for a massage in San Diego pre-covid, several times in fact, months apart. No response, ever. Maybe the number he advertised at the time was old? Never said anything creepy or weird, did not send a photo or anything, just said I’d like to schedule a massage for xx date, do you have availability, something like that. Nothing. Puzzling. Curious if anyone has seen him recently. And yes…he has some really good videos out there from his studio days. Sigh.

Maybe a few people with really scaly skin, but haven’t jumped to any conclusions. Seemed nice enough…

Wow, lots of mental health issues. Makes me sad. Then the politics issue. Urggg, can’t people keep this to themselves? We’re here for massage, not to vote. I feel like I’ve dodged many a bullet getting massages from by-and-large normal, stable, professional people. Have yet to run into any lizard people. 😂

What a bunch of hotties here 🤠 I hired DTX_Jock (Grant) for massage only. He’s stunning. Drop dead gorgeous. I cannot recommend him for massage, but if I were in the market to hire him for more, I definitely would. FYI he’s a bottom. Good luck…let us know who you pick and how it goes!

Play nice y’all. If we can’t exchange ideas and opinions here, where can we? It’s ok to disagree on stuff. @Jarrod_Uncut gives us a less filtered view into a lot of provider experiences and concerns you wouldn’t hear otherwise. I don’t agree with all of his approaches, policies, and opinions, but I share some of his same frustrations. Take all of our contributions with a grain of salt.

We providers can have the clearest, most straightforward, well communicated rates and policies on our ads. That’s ideal. Doesn’t matter. There will always be a percentage of prospective clients asking bird brain questions they can easily answer for themselves by checking the website or reviewing the ad content. The question asking behavior doesn’t necessarily mean the client has bad intentions, or that they’re trying to play a game or negotiate for a more favorable rate. Maybe some are, but a lot of people are simply not that good at reading the information and need some hand holding. Even so, if they decide not to proceed for whatever reason, that’s their prerogative. If you get angry at them for asking (admittedly) an unnecessary question, you’re alienating them from ever hiring you in the future. I agree, it’s annoying wasting time answering questions to which clients already have the answers if they bothered to look. A considerable number of these question askers follow through and become clients, and of those, some become regulars/repeat. You have to sift through a lot of silt and muck to find a few gold nuggets. It’s tedious work, and not every pan yields a valuable reward. Customer service is never glamorous or enjoyable, but it’s a necessary part of running a good business.

I agree. I assume the same when providers don’t post rates, like they want the client to engage and then be more likely to book if they are already in a conversation, even if the rate is too high. There’s nothing wrong with the client asking and saying sorry, I can’t afford it and you both move on. Clients ask questions all the time about stuff clearly posted to the ad. It’s just people being dumb, not reading it. That’s what people do. It’s just part of the biz. Politely respond and move on. Not everyone can afford you. A few possibilities: Providers may set rates differently for each client, both for good reasons and bad ones, usually bad. Providers offer multiple rates for different levels of service and duration. For example, a BDSM session is X, vanilla full service is Y, oral only is Z. Massage or combination massage/escort is another rate. Maybe topping has a different rate than bottoming or vers play. Overnights and weekends may have their own rates. In that case the provider needs to know what the client wants before he can appropriately quote the rate or total fee. Rate fluctuation based on travel city. Someone in San Francisco may be more likely to pay a higher rate than someone in Kansas City. Sometimes a provider feels this out, sometimes he knows what his rate is in different areas and doesn’t want to give the impression he is a certain rate across the whole country. The better ones maintain a constant rate regardless.

Thank you! Glad the system provides for vetting and ensuring all the key information is complete and input correctly up front before an item is added.

To effectively search, it’s important topics are spelled correctly. Frequently a poster will misspell a provider’s name or city and it’s then impossible to search for that topic. Not sure what the solution is other than manual mod busywork to correct typos and I wouldn’t want to put that extra work on the team. Maybe members suggest corrections in the thread itself and address the comment to the respective moderator? 🤷‍♂️

I understand. This is a fair point on both the client side and provider side. To each their own. One way to address this concern:

You might start by asking before you book if the masseur is comfortable discussing sensual/erotic aspects of their service. This step is an opportunity for the masseur to say “Sorry, I offer therapeutic only”, or maybe he prefers discussing those details over the phone instead of putting it in writing. Many of the guys will say yes. That gives you an opportunity to ask things like “do you offer mutual touch”, or “do you offer a happy ending?”, and so on. If they have higher rates or additional fees for extras, they can break it down for you right there. Or say that XYZ is included, or that ABC is an upcharge. That works well for me. I like dealing with business before and after table time, so that you can relax and enjoy your massage and get exactly what you want with no anxiety about what it costs or if something you want to happen actually will. I want satisfied clients. One of the most irritating questions is “What is included in your massage?” The client has something in mind they want. I’d rather them just ask for it and I say yes or no. Or discuss pricing depending on their particular needs. That’s just me. No need to beat around the bush. And man, have I seen some bushes in my day…and beaten around them. Have I mentioned I offer body trimming? 😆

It’s a very fine line to walk. Skilled is the man who can do this without giving off a pushy vibe. I’ve done it successfully before, but it’s not my strength. Occasionally I upsell before the appointment, when a client is booking. For example, “Would you like to add a body scrub? It’s popular with my clients.” I have lots of room for improvement in marketing and selling. The good news is my services sell themselves. The hurdle is getting people to try them when they otherwise wouldn’t. I have clients who have seen me for over a year before trying the body scrub and comment something to the effect of: “I’m never skipping this service again. It should be mandatory!” Here is one subtle way I indicate more services are available that I do not explicitly advertise: In addition to beautiful homoerotic art, I have some functional wall ‘decor’ hanging on hooks that ignites client curiosity and leads some to ask about how I use it, and if they might try something related in their next session. If it’s in the middle of the current session, I discuss it freely and mention it has a different pricing structure without getting into the weeds. I still defer to the “let’s discuss the nitty gritty business details afterwards” approach.

I err on the side of caution. @DWnycHow do you suggest, from the client perspective, the best way to go about upselling, assuming time is no issue for them or for me? Assume it’s a first time client and I have no info about previous client interest, or their willingness or ability to pay? Again…the scenario is the client is asking for services, or assuming something is already included that isn’t…not me suggesting or bringing it up out of nowhere. Not sure how to handle this because every client is different. I would say from past experience way more than 50% of the time one of the factors is working against us like time or willingness to pay or ability to pay. A lot of times a client will scoff or be put off by a high number, or saddened and disappointed because they’re willing but unable to pay it. Kind of ruins the vibe. Since one of these is more than likely to occur, I generally avoid having the conversation after the session begins. If the client asks for something directly and makes it very clear that they are able and willing to pay, I have no problems discussing and offering services, but that is exceedingly rare. Most clients have a hard time asking for even the most basic of things like more/less pressure. I appreciate a direct client. There’s no reason to be embarrassed or shy about your needs.

Unforgivable, unprofessional, cheap. This happened to me recently with another guy and I was shocked and embarrassed for him. More on him soon - this was one of many red flags. Any serious masseur will invest in a premium account whether it be Pandora, Spotify, or other. Pandora premium is $13/mo. Insignificant investment when you’re considering making many hundreds to thousands a month depending on how much you work. We pay much more than that for our massage ads. Like those ads, this is just a normal cost of doing business. More on ad costs in this post:

For me, it’s the opposite where the client asks, demands, or begs for more services and I have to say “Yes, I can do xyz for you, but during your next session, let’s discuss details afterward.” Instead of using that opportunity to upsell or pressure the client, I deflect to keep the client’s best interests in mind. I would much rather the client have an excellent experience and want to return, or become a regular, than try to extract whatever I can in a single visit while they’re in a poor position to make considered decisions. The last thing I want to do to a client is pause the massage to discuss additional services and pricing. That is not a relaxing state of mind to shift to when you’re trying to enjoy a good massage. Also, just from a practical standpoint, if the client wants more time and/or more services, I may not have availability in the case of a client being booked right afterwards, or there may be prep work required like heating stones beforehand. Or what they need requires notice to offer them good service. Plus the client may be paying cash and may not be prepared to pay more at that time. Again, not something you want to think about or discuss during your massage.

It seldom happens, but I have to admit once in a while my wifi connection has a little blip and the playlist ends after a song instead of continuing to play through the list. I have to start playing another list because going back and finding the right song and pressing play will take way too much time versus a few seconds playing another fresh list. 30 seconds of your masseur NOT working on you without any music feels like an eternity, much less a full minute, so I’m very sensitive to that. When it happens that odd time, in my head sirens and lights are flashing while I try not to panic as I quickly remedy the situation. My music plays on Amazon speakers and they are utterly dependent on a constant, stable wifi connection. I can’t control the wifi connection. I apologize on behalf of others in the same boat. Depending on your masseur’s setup, it oftentimes is not his fault, it’s out of his control. Quick note on Bluetooth. This is another (arguably) more stable option, but for surround sound multiple speakers work best, and linking through wifi seems to be the best way to do that without wiring directly to one or more devices. I’m open to suggestions. My building has a fire alarm system. Again, it rarely happens, but a couple times a year a false alarm starts from somewhere else in the building and I have to end the massage. It’s really frustrating. Again, not under my control, at least not until I move. Still annoying though, for both client and masseur.

Oh god, that’s awful. Someone has been watching too much porn. They usually use baby oil in those clips. It’s so bad. Heated oil is unnecessary for a great massage, but if it’s used, it should always be in a proper oil warming device. Better yet, warm his hands before starting, or use hot stones from a proper purpose built stone heater.

PSA to clients: please keep in mind this is the most common reason your masseurs do not text you back “immediately”. You can’t have it both ways. Immediate responses 100% of the time AND their full, uninterrupted attention during the session? Usually it’s one or the other. Unless you happen to luck out on your timing, and it’s exactly that: luck. I’m careful not to detract any attention from my client to my phone during their session. The good masseurs are focused on you for the whole session. Have grace when inquiring and it takes a while to get a response. It’s not uncommon, for example, for me to have a two hour client appointment, plus time after (still not texting other clients) to wrap up, accept payment, walk the client out, chit chat, etc. There’s no clear agreed-upon standard regarding an acceptable amount of time to return texts. For me, it’s up to 2-3 hours, most often I respond much sooner than that and obviously within minutes if I’m otherwise free. Response times have been discussed on several other forums at length. Same with hours to contact your provider. Here’s one related thread on that topic:

Yeah, exactly, it’s totally uncharacteristic of me. That’s why I was so mortified. I never would have wanted that situation put upon myself or wished it on someone else. I consider it a cautionary tale about excess alcohol intake, and a reminder to treat people with the same respect I appreciate. One of many ways to do so is to avoid getting completely trashed so as to be more in control of my own behavior and in my right mind. I am that guy who cringes at hitting on the UPS guy, but I’m also the one to think to myself, “damn, that UPS guy looks good in those shorts”. I just keep it to myself. Apparently, when I’m drunk my filter goes straight out the window and I become a lovey-dovey dick face. 🤷‍♂️🍆😵‍💫🍆🤷‍♂️

Fair point @Unicorn. I think some guys would make a huge eye roll or be put off by it. Some would be flattered. Some may seriously consider the offer. Props to the men who have the gumption to be so brash and forward. I would probably need some liquid courage to do it if I were interested in hiring. I have to be careful though. I go from “loose as a goose” at 2-3 drinks to “goose on the loose” at 5-6 drinks! A version of this happened at my last employer holiday party when I had that one more drink I probably shouldn’t have. The guy did not work directly with me, as he was in a remote office in another city so I barely knew him. He’s extremely hot, very masculine, and by all accounts of discussing his life, also completely straight. Some topic about gay stuff came up in our group of coworkers, and I joked “none of you would understand, you’re straight…but this guy [pointing to him], I don’t know about him!” He grinned, blushed, and shrugged his shoulders. Incredulous, I paused, and then kissed him right on the lips in front of everyone. He was into it. It was no peck either. Turns out he wasn’t so straight after all. At the end of the night, I slapped his ass as he got in his rideshare. Recalling everything the next morning, I was mortified. I never would have behaved so brazenly sober. Given, this has nothing to do with hiring, but I feel relevant to maintaining strictly professional relationships at work. Fortunately nobody made a big deal of it or brought it up. What happened at the bar, in this case, stayed at the bar.

What ways do you propose are ethical and appropriate to approach someone who doesn’t work in the same place as yourself (but still works with/for you in some capacity, however limited)?

^I agree. It’s much worse when they are a subordinate in your organization. Even if you don’t work with the person, say, at the same company, they may be working for you in a service capacity, if only for a short time like in the case of the server, or periodically in the case of the delivery driver, or perhaps even a healthcare provider. In either case, the prospective hire has no choice in the matter of having to be around you and interact with you in the context of doing their work. The concept applies in both scenarios; it’s just more egregious to proposition in the first scenario, but no more respectful in the second scenario to proposition someone.

A few thoughts. Propositioning is fine. Adults can choose what they are willing to do regardless of economic status, relationship status, or sexual identity. People can simply ignore or say no, or say yes and participate freely. The context of a proposition, however, matters. In particular, I advise not using the prospective hire’s work context as a way to propose an arrangement. For example, the pizza boy, the restaurant server, the ups delivery guy, the intern at your professional job, etc. These guys may or (often) may NOT appreciate your sexual advances, but they have to perform their jobs anyway. They’re a captive audience and they are in many ways beholden to you because of the work relationship context. They signed up to get paid for the work they are currently performing. They did not sign up to be harassed, pressured, or groomed to perform sex work. It’s just gross to me when I consider how a person must feel when they are obligated to be around people at their work context that hint at, or even openly propose, an arrangement. Seems disrespectful to me at the very least. Treat people like human beings, not pieces of meat. They are just trying to do their jobs. Other contexts are more suitable. Drawing from some of the previously mentioned scenarios, I think it's fine to propose an arrangement with a random guy at a bar, or a fellow gym-goer, or some other context where they are not working with you or for you. There's no power dynamic or forced interaction that way. Strippers, go-go dancers and sex work adjacent fields are more appropriate because the potential hire is already signing up for a situation where they are being paid on some level for their sex appeal. Even bartenders know they flirt for better tips, but it's still their job to serve you drinks, not part of their job to be pressured or even asked to do sex work. No means no, so respect that, even if their job is to wave their balls in a g-string at your face. Same applies when someone ignores an advance. Respect that and move on. Hookup apps are tricky. In the US you aren't supposed to advertise services or proposition and you can easily be banned or busted for doing so. Yes, it's a sexual context so I see the natural segway. No, it's not someone's place of non-sexual work, so nothing slimy there either. BUT you're taking unnecessary risks. The best, most appropriate places to hire are platforms like rentmen (and others) because they are designed precisely for providers and clients to connect and make arrangements. If you insist on hiring random guys who aren't providers…or you get off on the whole gay for pay IRL fantasy, feel free to leave your notes with phone numbers, envelopes of cash, verbal proposals, or what have you. BUT please keep your propositions out of your regular business transactions and work contexts. People work. The last thing they need is pressure and advances from a creepy guy when they are simply trying to do their job. As to the whole capitalism system rants, I give up. Those are bigger topics perhaps beyond the scope of the OP subject at hand - best leave those conversations to the politics section or create a new thread.

Me too. I’d love to have tea with @Jamie21 someday. I didn’t realize it was your birthday. Happy birthday!