Simon Suraci

^Well said! Providers are not obligated to service everyone that requests to hire their time. Providers can choose to screen for whatever criteria they want, and they have a right to request photos. In my personal opinion, it is unprofessional to request photos of the client as a condition for seeing him, even for “security” reasons. I call bs. A professional, in my opinion, will see a wide variety of people, and be able to perform for them all, assuming the clients are respectful and take care of their personal hygiene. Quick note on hygiene. We are not obligated to suck on fungus infested toes, foreskin that hasn’t been washed in weeks, tolerate exceedingly rank body odor, or touch rashes, open sores, or the like. These are all examples of good reasons to raise objections. Age, fitness, body type, race, and disability I believe are bad reasons to reject clients. Providers who can only perform for a very narrow range of people, I believe, are in the wrong business. Our services are valuable no matter who we see, but also precisely because we are capable of providing a high level of service to a wide variety of people. You pay a pro to do a job that few others would be willing or able to fulfill. This quality in a provider has immense value.

I reach out when I know I am going to be traveling to a client’s area to work. That usually drums up quite a bit of business. I try not to bother clients outside of giving them the key pieces of info they need to decide if they want to book me during a finite time period. A handful with whom I have a closer relationship I will send the occasional message unrelated to business.

Honestly, me too 🙈 And I should know better. I just call them mid-cities; that mass of suburbs between Dallas and Ft Worth.

I’ve met some beautiful souls in this line of work. They span the looks gamut from 11 to -1. I don’t care what he looks like. It’s all about fulfilling what my client needs. He doesn’t have to entertain me either; that’s my job. @KensingtonHomo I’m less concerned with how freshly laundered his hand towels are, or how spotless his kitchen is. While these are nice, I wouldn’t be judging him for having a normal everyday cooked-in kitchen or a rag on the side of the bed. One of my regulars greets me at his door in old, ill fitting, ripped up jeans (not the “stylish” variety, just plain ripped), a haphazardly thrown on tee, and an unshaven face. He calls me a bitch and says what the hell am I doing here. That’s just our humor. I throw it all right back at him. He is so comfortable with me that he doesn’t feel the pressure to make a big show, and he is so secure in our relationship that he hurls insults knowing I won’t take any of it seriously. I call him a big slut in his first language. When you feel this mutually secure, this grounded, you know you have a solid relationship. That’s priceless. First impressions are another story. There’s something to be said for professionalism on the provider side, and common courtesy on the client side, but even then, I am not judging the client. I am only focused on doing a good job. The truly ugly clients to me are ugly on the inside.

Anyone here care to share their experience with pygeum?

Please note, each question includes specifically, and intentionally: “do you feel” in its phrasing. It was a little long to include this bit in the title, for one, but provocative for another. Although our personal opinions may differ quite widely, we may arrive at some general agreements about what all of us think is acceptable to most others. Where does this agreement come from? Laws? Tradition? Censorship? Institutions? Etc The real meat of the conversation is what you personally think and “why”, since the individual may feel differently than the group’s implied or explicit standard.

Question 1) Whose nipples generally turn you on: cis women, cis men, neither, or both? Question 2) Whose nipples do you feel are acceptable to expose in public: cis women, cis men, neither, or both? Any variations in your answer given different contexts? Why? Question 3) Whose nipples do you feel are acceptable to expose in public: trans women, trans men, neither, or both? What about nonbinary people? Why? Question 4) Whose nipple-less chest do you feel is acceptable to expose in public: trans men who undergo top surgery and choose not to have their nipples surgically reattached, or trans women who undergo top surgery and choose not to have their nipples surgically reattached? Neither? Both? Why? Question 5) How do you feel about any of the categories of people mentioned on the questions above publicly bearing their whole chests while wearing pasties over their nipples?

“Hole Whisperer”. Too direct? ”Where happy begins…” Lowballing clients I want to refer to street providers rocking the following tagline:

^These are the things I can do without Come on

Now in Denver.

Personally, I think you’re going about this line of work for the wrong reasons. Monetizing your sex life, for one. This phrase neatly summarizes the sentiment discussed in so many other threads on these forums. It just doesn’t work. A much larger number of men would do it if that’s all it took. For another, your primary interest is in the income, not meeting needs you personally are well suited to fulfill. Nothing wrong taking a fair income for delivering high value services to a willing clientele; however, it takes a lot to provide m4m services effectively and be successful. More than looks, and certainly you need experience and talent either on the massage table, in the bedroom, or both. Plus marketing and business savvy, patience, emotional maturity, boundaries, people skills, and many other soft skills. You’re going about it quite casually. This is serious work. To do it well IMHO, you need to do it for the right reasons (beyond a quick buck). This is about meeting very real human needs, not Grindr with the slight caveat of money changing hands. It takes empathy, compassion, and a selfless, service oriented mindset to do a good job. Missing these big picture items, you will likely burn out, and not succeed. Then you’re just another mediocre provider of many, the likes of which the men here pick apart mercilessly and publicly for both shallow and legitimate reasons. Then you inevitably fade into the background and quit 6-24 months after starting. Don’t be that guy. To succeed and sustain, you need to keep on your best game and continue to grow and get better. A short sighted, half ass effort in this biz is immediately apparent to everyone, from the ads you post to the first impression you impart to every new client in person. Lastly, I personally feel you are already in a much too vulnerable position being in the US on any visa, student or otherwise. It’s one thing being a US citizen and kicked out of your apartment lease because your landlord knows or suspects you are a masseur or sex worker. That sucks, but it’s quite another scale of consequence to be kicked out of the country for the same. I wouldn’t jeopardize your life. I need to refrain from saying anything further to expand this point, because it wouldn’t conform to the forum guidelines. Be careful, is all. You already have an excellent opportunity studying here doing something you presumably have a long term goal to fulfill. I would hate to see something bad happen to you or to miss out on your dreams over a quick buck side hustle your heart was never truly into in the first place. Just my take. Do what you will. If you want to do it anyway, some of the others here have already made some good points about not showing your face, not using your real name, taking steps for plausible deniability, shifting some risk onto others by tagging along on 4-hand gigs, etc. There’s more to it than all that, for instance how to properly declare your income and pay taxes, and how to set up a business entity to do so legally. In the end, it’s not always about what you are actually doing, but what Uncle Sam discovers about his missing slice of your pie that catches up to you and ruins you, but that’s a whole other subject. My advice is don’t go there. Be safe. Enjoy the incredible opportunities you already have. I too was a dirt poor college student many moons ago. I was disciplined. I budgeted. I made it work. Money won’t always be so tight.

Update: I hired Joe for a massage last month. Overall medium level of skill, decent, nothing to write home about. If anyone has the opportunity to hire him for deli services, don’t hesitate; this is where he really shines. We’ve worked together in a variety of scenarios many times and he always delivers. He’s a talented, experienced professional. Beautiful man, inside and out.

I do. Ask many here who have hired me. With a few notable exceptions, most of the guys I contact to arrange for group scenes look like their ad photos. The bad ones post obviously outdated photos, sometimes by even decades, but I can generally tell and so steer my clients away from them. Same goes for the rogue provider now and then with overdone photoshopped pics. My trouble is not spotting the issue, but rather convincing the client to stop thinking with his dick lusting after a fantasy image and rather trust my judgment to veto his selection. I’m really just looking out for the client by helping him avoid the bad hires.

@Nameless providers generally accept cash, and typically more than one digital payment method, like Venmo and Zelle. I’d be surprised if your guy had any problems accepting cash. Although digital payments are more and more common with each passing year, cash in this business is still very much the norm. Many clients prefer cash for privacy reasons, if not for expediency.

@Nameless do you have a question about your experience you want others to respond to, in this section Questions About Hiring?

Amen. This is the answer, right here.

The only way this forum exists is through the generous and painstaking work of volunteer moderation. Thank you! There is no perfect solution. We are all human, with foibles folded in. Thus is the internet.

Sub is an attitude, a dynamic, a preference to submit; not an act or a sexual position role. While bottoming often is considered a submissive act and lots of subs like to bottom, not all penis-in-hole action happens in the context of an insertive partner “dominating” a receptive partner. A passive, submissive top can be dominated. For example in a cuckold situation, where the dynamics are such that the bottom is performing an act of rebellion, control, or even revenge, depending on the scene. The focus is not on the bottom “submitting” to some other lover, but rather using the third party to dominate the first party, in a way. I’ve bound tops to my table, pleasure tortured them, employed impact play, edged them, and sat on their cock, to milk their load in an act of total control and domination. This scenario is less commonly requested, but it’s definitely a thing. Submission and domination are not about who is “insertive”. It’s about the dynamics, the headspace; who is willingly (sometimes wantonly) relinquishing control, and who is actively taking control. I should note, a switch is a thing. Someone can submit in one encounter and dominate in another. Sometimes even in the same encounter, but I seldom see these situations manifest in the same scene. Being a sub can be an identity when one assigns it to himself, however, submitting once, sometimes, or even most of the time does not define someone as a sub. To submit is a verb. A sub is only a noun when one owns the identity within the context of a finite scene, or perhaps permanently when one identifies this way. That’s up to the individual to self define. In short: sex acts alone do not define dominance or submission.

^Simon says: Here is a link to a comment I made on a specific provider re: this very same topic.

Ask for what you want. That’s the best way.

I saw Grant earlier in 2025. He’s excellent. Very knowledgeable, experienced, and quite skilled. His rates are reasonable, in line with therapeutic only offerings. Amazing value for the quality he delivers. I highly recommend him for therapeutic bodywork. I got the sensual upgrade and personally it was not worth it to me. I said this about Michael and I will say the same applies to Grant. Some guys are exceptionally good at therapeutic, but very few are equally as good at sensual/erotic. YMMV. I will return for therapeutic work. Re: deposit policy. Grant charges a $20 deposit. Clearly this is not a scam to rob deposit money as he has a stellar reputation and the low amount is about the principle of the thing, to help him weed out unserious, flaky people. After refusing digital payment, I told him I would pay the deposit in cash, insisting on dropping by his place in Pt Loma to drop it off. He said anyone serious enough to make the trip just to drop off $20 was going to show up, so he waived the fee. I didn’t ask him to waive it; he offered, trusting my display of good faith. I really was going to drive there and do it. As a masseur myself, I understand exactly why he requires a nominal deposit, so I respected his policy. I just figured you guys should know he has a deposit policy and want to encourage you to not be put off by it. He’s not a fly by night masseur looking to steal small amounts of your money. He’s a good guy trying to protect his time. If the risk of $20 is really that much of loss for you, maybe hiring $120+/hr services is out of your price range anyway. I do not like or advocate for deposits generally, and do no charge them myself, but in cases like this, it’s obvious to me why he does it and that he is not going to cheat you.

Clients vary in terms of their preferences, but also in their bodies. I second pretty much all that @Jamie21 has to say, plus the following. The majority I find like to position their manhood downward. I interpret this display behavior as an invitation to engage with their bits. It’s not always for that reason though. For some, it’s simply more comfortable. Perhaps they have a downward curving/pointing cock and positioning it in an upward direction would be cumbersome or even painful if they become erect. Erections are certainly a hazard in my sessions! Same goes for arching / lifting their ass, spreading their legs to the edges and beyond the ends of the table. Although it’s way more obvious this way. On my table, no ass goes unattended to, so you need not worry or go out of your way to present it. Assuming you maintain good hygiene, of course. Without a basic level of respect, I will not be doing all the erotic ass play stuff. Please don’t be one of the men I have to discreetly wipe due to foul odors and residues. I swear some of my 70+ and 80+ clients are the worst offenders, but I believe they are simply clueless. Not from a lack of respect, but a lack of awareness. Still. Come on, guys. Can you believe a client the other day asked me to f*ck him after I did the whole wiping thing at the beginning of the session? And it wasn’t just a little bit. It was like he didn’t even do a first pass at the toilet. He could stripe a few meters of roadway with those skid marks. God, the shit we deal with. And you wonder why we charge so much for the work we do, all with a smile on our faces and compassion in our hearts. At least the good ones. We truly do the lord’s work. I digress. Some men have a smaller and/or a more retracted dick, especially the more corpulent guys, so it really doesn’t matter for them, as nothing is going to be presenting itself so obviously or bending very far in any direction. I had a guy recently that apparently had a full on erection, but I didn’t know so until I felt around and pulled it out away from his body. Like coaxing a turtle out of his shell. So cute. Yeah. So various reasons for positioning one way or another. We’re all different. A good sensual / erotic masseur will figure out what you like and engage you erotically without all the fuss regarding how you position your body. It’s really not that complicated. Hire those experienced skilled guys, relax, and let the magic unfold.

You might try searching the Spas and Masseurs section using keyword SF and/or San Francisco. I’ve heard many good providers are located in SF. Your search would turn up many results for you to read through and help you develop a shortlist. Do some research and then share your shortlist with links to the masseur ads and ask for members’ input on the options. A separate thread with a title specifying the area you are looking in SF would get the right people to view it. Asking the whole country and beyond to give you personalized recommendations to your local area is probably not going to yield the targeted info you seek. As to your more general topic of masseurs who offer equally skilled therapy, extras and sexual favors, many providers across the country would fit the bill. To your point, it is difficult to find masseurs that provide the whole shebang with equal skill - at any price point. You may want to clarify what your expectations are regarding pricing. So many clients here want or expect a high level of sex work services with a skilled therapeutic massage, but for massage pricing. Quite a few providers fit the bill, but they tend to charge equitable rates in line with going sex work rates for their services. You will hear stories on here bragging about how clients got sex work services for massage prices, but this isn’t the norm. Expect to pay equitable rates for sex work, especially for a quality provider delivering a high level of skill on both fronts, precisely because they are so valuable, desirable, and good at what they do. If you expand this topic to cover outside your local area, I bet you would get some more responses from clients discussing their favorites in their local areas and frequent travel destinations.

Please note this article discusses sex trafficking. Law enforcement is interested in stopping sex traffickers, as they should. In-person sex work services may be illegal, but not immoral. Nobody is getting hurt. Sex trafficking is both illegal and immoral. The real problem here: vulnerable people being taken advantage of, controlled, or compelled to work for the enrichment of the people trafficking them. That’s what we really want to stop. Not consenting adults engaging in commercial activity. Most providers discussed on these forums work for themselves. They are not trafficking others nor being trafficked themselves. Accounts of sting operations in the M4M commercial sex space are quite rare. I can recall only a few anecdotes discussed on these forums to date. If we hear about these stories anywhere, it would be here.

This is my impression too. It’s not typically the sole source anymore for a client to see the ad and book - unless MF is the provider’s ONLY mainstream massage ad. Those days are over. So yeah, I don’t see the point. Lots of $ and lots of hoops for little to no new business we wouldn’t already be getting from other advertising sites.