Simon Suraci

These boys all raising their prices… Between RentMen and Seeking, it’s now just:

Snow? What’s that? 58 degrees on my commute in San Diego is giving me a few chills. Maybe I will wear a fashionable scarf.

This topic makes me think of the 2016 Black Mirror episode Nosedive. So interesting how the pervasive reviews dynamic affects our whole world and permeates our lives more and more as time goes on. Nosedive (Black Mirror) - Wikipedia EN.M.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

I’ve done them. I wouldn’t upcharge for something as simple as wearing a hat that I already own or a pair of underwear the client brought. I would charge if the item is more elaborate or uncomfortable, messy, or difficult to move in. Furries, anyone? Glitter outfits, unbreathable material, slime play, oil wrestling scenes, you name it. Someone has a fetish or kink involving that thing. Basically anything that takes more time to prep, clean, or is uncomfortable. Stuff the client likes to tickle his fetish fancy. For some it’s wearing hat and I oblige them. For others, I charge for the pain in the ass.

To be meaningful, reviews need to include facts as well as opinions. “It was good” or “Waste of time” are not descriptive enough. Focus on facts about your experience. A few negative points: Tardiness, poor atmosphere such as TV on, loud noises, other people present, bad smells, unclean spaces, clutter, distractions like the provider constantly checking phone, leaving the room during the massage, unskilled work, inappropriate massage equipment like mattress on the floor, cutting your time short, rudeness, uninvited discussions of politics or religion or conspiracy theories, etc. Provider says or does something racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. Charging more than agreed upon rates (assuming no upselling). High pressure upselling behavior. Violence, threats, stalking, not showing up, ghosting, failing to communicate, doesn’t look like his photos, photos are outdated by many years, inaccurate massage description, etc… These are just some of many things you could say in a review to make it more meaningful. Giving 1-4 stars with little or no commentary means almost nothing. Positive reviews also need concrete details to be meaningful. Focus on facts as well as how the experience made you feel. A few positive points: Technical skills are as expected or better, starts on time, unrushed, friendly demeanor, accurate photos and descriptions, goes the whole time, uses appropriate equipment and supplies, accommodates client needs, space is clean, inviting, relaxing, private, safe, tidy, etc. Restroom and shower are available, provider offers water, smell in the space is neutral or pleasant, temperature is comfortable, etc… Find what made your experience positive and write that. 5 stars means nothing other than the client presumably enjoyed it. The reason he enjoyed it could simply be that the provider was hot or got him off, or offered a discount, or 5 stars means to the client: perfectly adequate and meets expectations. Other clients reserve 5 stars only for truly excellent service. 4 stars is still positive. Whatever you rate, explain with as much focus on facts as possible why you chose the rating you did. Then explain how the experience made you feel. For RentMen, these are a bit of a reach considering most clients provide little to no descriptive feedback. For masseur sites, you get a wider variety. Reviews are only as meaningful as the context they offer. Weigh each review accordingly.

I love this feature. Thank you!

Something that truly mystifies us all. It’s tough love. See you next thread, Jarrod 👋

I like The Talented Mr Ripley, both the book series and film. Gotta check out Saltburn, then.

@musclestuduws I have much the same attitude as you. I was more sympathetic toward @Jarrod_Uncut until I came to terms with the fact he repeatedly refuses to take a lot of well-reasoned, attitude-free advice from dozens of members to heart. I gave up. If he wants to be a victim or a martyr, let him. Should he find interest in improving himself, he will do so on his own accord. He already has volumes worth of good forum advice to lean on. Expect more of the same to fall on deaf ears. My suggestion: ignore Jarrod’s complaining posts. We can’t make decisions for him or force him to recon with the world as it is. Any answer you give that doesn’t fall along the lines of “the world should conform to you, Jarrod” he will argue with until you (and he) are utterly exhausted. To the bullies amongst us, even those with reasonable (if not mean-spirited, comments): ignore and move on to topics you like better. Aren’t you bored?

^ @Jarrod_Uncut I’m genuinely interested in which hotels you’ve found offer guest laundry facilities. I ask and most of the time they don’t have them. Access to laundry is one of the biggest reasons I rent AirBnBs / VRBOs etc. Hosting 1-2 clients a day is no big deal to bring a spare set of sheets/blankets (…shlankets?), but when I travel and have up to six clients a day without convenient access to laundry facilities - that’s just untenable for me. I have mostly massage clients, mind you, with 0-2 escort client appointments on any given day. I bring about a dozen of my own sets of dedicated massage linens and towels and wash them daily.

Thanks for taking the time to check and post @Just Sayin. There is no hard and fast rule, but in my mind at least, a one hour session in the range of $180-$220 is high for massage only (even “erotic” massage). It’s still lower than escort fees which generally start in the $250 neighborhood at the lower end and go up from there. All, keep your expectations in check for 90 and 120 min sessions accordingly. With more time, it adds up to more fee, but that doesn’t suddenly make it an escort session based on a total dollar amount, like say, $250 for a 90 or 120 min session. For instance, I charge $260 for a two hour massage session, but it’s just massage, erotic though it may be. I am good with providing more, but I increase the fee for clients who want that. The trouble is you get into that high price territory of $180+ and you might expect more on the erotic front than you would with others, but you’re not quite paying a rate where you can reasonably expect full service or something along that level of sexual interaction. It’s a gray area. For that price point let’s hope it’s a truly amazing skilled therapeutic and/or erotic massage. Or you’re paying for the view. Or both. Best to ask for what you want and if he offers it, don’t be shocked if he quotes you $250-$350 (or sometimes more) for a single hour, and of course pricing will fluctuate with how much total time you book. Some guys don’t offer what you want or he quotes higher than you are willing to pay. Since you asked, it saves you the time and $. Masseurs vary, so I am not the authority. I just like to help clients adjust their expectations so they can enjoy the guys they hire and find the best value for their money. I see masseur fan site content posted here and there and clients reacting expecting a duplicate experience for a massage fee and I roll my eyes. If you get that, good for you. It’s just not reasonable to expect that from every masseur…even those who produce explicit OF ‘massage scene’ content. Anyway, have fun. I hope you guys try Oscar and report back. Do ask for what you want and share what you find out. Looks like a fun time.

In the previous thread @calstrin was disappointed the massage didn’t end like something in his porn videos, but I wonder if there was any communication about expectations or discussions of rates for such an experience. Maybe Oscar is open to providing that experience for an appropriate fee? Doesn’t hurt to offer. I wouldn’t expect Oscar or any masseur to give it all away for a massage fee. Anyone know what he charges for a massage? Or for more? His ad says “ask”.

Yes, this definitely happens. Doing more for a client but charging the same is quite common. Better this scenario than charging differently for the same service based on age/looks/etc, I suppose. Neither is good though. I strive to deliver excellence to every client. I used to advertise student and youth discounts, not because I prefer those clients (I find them less reliable on average), but because I was trying to expand by diversifying my client base. Over time I have come to realize that my client demographics skew older no matter what I do and that younger men and students typically don’t hire for a lot of understandable reasons, chiefly among them being cost. Even with a discount, my services are too expensive for the average student or youth 18-25. The few that do hire me will pay my regular rate anyway, so it doesn’t matter. No more discounts. My client age demographics transition along a bell curve starting with a pretty shallow slope from 25 to 35 and then steepens a lot at 40+. 30 somethings make up a decent chunk, maybe as much as the 70 something bunch. Very few clients are under 22, but I have them once in a while. I had a 19yo twink massage client some months back. He was a barista, and had seriously among the largest cocks I have ever seen…crazy. I digress. My typical client is in his 50s at the top of the curve, with plenty of 40s and 60s on either side making up the camel hump shape, and then it tapers back down in the 70+ category, and then shallows quite precipitously in the 80+ category. Since most clients are over 40 and under 70, any provider or masseur that isn’t comfortable with that should seek a new career. The twenty something hottie on Grindr is unlikely to sustain your living, and certainly not if you discount. It’s ok to relish the pleasure of working on someone you find attractive, but a good provider never lets it get away from him. It’s still all about the client, not about you getting something out of it besides money. Professionals know that and approach their work accordingly. The others advertise “fit” discounts and the like. Avoid those. It’s a sign of a less professional provider.

This especially rings true in my architecture career. Clients are notoriously insensitive to scope creep and demanding a lot more than whatever is in the contract. The really egregious offenders we would still work with but increase our fees. I take the same approach as @BenjaminNicholas but rarely have to, and never due to how someone looks or for something out of their control.

No, I do not charge differently. Unprofessional providers cherry pick and/or charge differently for each client based on their personal preferences. This is a service with value. It takes the same time and resources regardless of how the client looks. I am making the client my focus. I cum in the way he wants, when he wants, if he wants. Providers who treat this work like paid Grindr will not last long. I have hot clients and hideous ones and everyone else who is mostly in between. Doesn’t matter. I charge the same. @Balthazar I am sad to hear that some providers would choose to not see you or perform poorly for you because you’re black. That leaves money on the table. It makes no sense. We still live in a world with systemic racism and cultural bias and it’s frustrating. Hiring should not be one of the ways these ongoing problems manifest, but apparently it is. Some of my black clients have mentioned their race when contacting me and asked if I am ok seeing them. It saddens me because I know they are asking because they have faced discrimination in the past. I ensure them I see everyone and have experience with people of many different races. Their money is all the same to me, whatever color they are. I want their business. Hiring is about having experiences with people you want to spend time with, not about appealing to someone like it’s a hookup based on personal preferences (which includes racist biases). The true professionals understand this and see everyone. You deserve a true professional when you hire. A true professional would never reject you or treat you differently because of your race. Good on you for testing things to see if you’re engaging a problem provider. You don’t want to waste your time with someone who has hangups. It just makes me sad that you have to ask. It shouldn’t have to be that way, but I get why you do.

Anyone looking for this scenario in a place where our paths may cross, PM me. Just saying!

Underpromise, overdeliver. Works well in business, and in this business too.

I’m with you here. I would honestly rather not know. If I am doing my job well, I don’t need the information. If anything, it’s a distraction. Part of what the client is paying for is for me to be something and someone to him that he doesn’t have to bother attracting on his own. The client is paying for the experience of being cared for, listened to, and serviced in the way he wants, without having to appeal to whatever private preferences I have. It’s like clients create more work for themselves by offering to pay and place pressure on themselves to “ensure” they appeal to me by over sharing. A good guy won’t let on that you’re not his cup of tea. His job is to make it seem as though you are. You will never know, and it’s better that you don’t. The longer I work in this industry, the broader my scope of personal preferences become. There’s something beautiful in everyone. For massage appointments, the weight limit of my massage table is relevant and finite, but I rarely have to turn someone away. My table holds 500+ lbs. Maybe I am not climbing on the table with a 400 pounder, but the client can certainly fit, no problem. Even when they exceed the limit, I make it work on another surface. Many of you already know I hate giving massages on a surface other than a pro table, but for clients who can’t fit, I am extra accommodating. Generally, clients are pretty honest when they describe themselves, if they do at all.

I’ve never heard this either. Credit bureaus want to see that you have paid off debts over time like cars and houses and other loans. Also really important is the ratio of credit you use in a given period vs how much total credit you have. Making payments on time is key, whether or not you carry a balance. Longevity and number of accounts is helpful too. Re: points and Amex… Good for you setting automatic bill payments with your credit card. I do the same. Amex charges merchants up the ass in processing fees though. That’s one of the reasons you get such generous points and why some merchants won’t accept Amex. Costco, for instance won’t accept Amex. Remember that when hiring or supporting a local business you care for using your card to pay. Lots of clients in this industry pay cash anyways, so there’s not much I can grumble about. Still, those points come directly out of merchant pockets and indirectly back into your own pockets via points benefits. When you use Amex (and other cards with point benefits) to pay me, I am essentially subsidizing your appliance purchases by getting less of the face value money you paid me. I would rather you pay for your own vacations and goods than tax me for it. But that’s just me. Policies and fees vary between credit card processors. It matters more in some cases and not at all in others. I accept Amex and try not to think about it very much. After all, I would rather have your business with a small chunk taken out than not have the business at all!

In other words, it’s all in his head. Placebos are effective because they prompt expectations. Kind of like inflation. Expecting it to happen causes it to happen. Although let’s be clear: nothing is being inflated in this scenario. It’s all blood. 😉

No credit card debt. My Jeep is paid off. Mortgages are another story…

I don’t think your hustler friend intentionally had a long con approach going on. If he did, he was really bad at it. Money should have been his primary motivation, but it sounds like it wasn’t and that something in his life changed over time and he became resentful or desperate or had other problems develop unrelated to you - and then he turned on you by directing whatever frustration or crisis he had toward you. If he were really playing his relationship with you to his full advantage, he should have been getting a good return on investment early, often, and well into the future by charging you his rates and reciprocating with his friendship. But then again, there’s nothing deceptive or unethical about that. That’s just good client development. It doesn’t have to be phony either. I have genuine connections with certain clients and they still hire me. I spend time off the clock in a friend capacity because I genuinely value their friendship and like them and care about them. Those are the exceptions though. I don’t have the bandwidth to maintain that kind of relationship or offer that kind of time for most of my clients. I don’t think the OP did anything wrong. The escort handled the whole situation poorly, to his own detriment, and sadly, also to yours. Communication and boundaries are important, in this case defining what the client should be paying, for what, and when, and what the client can expect in exchange. Any resentment the escort had over unpaid texting and talking is on himself. It’s up to him to draw appropriate boundaries around his time. It sounds like there was some level of genuine platonic connection and that got way too messy when mixing with a hiring dynamic. Best to define the relationship and the boundaries and all will be fine. When something is no longer working, it’s better to change the relationship or otherwise end it. It’s difficult to move on from something like this, but I wish you the best as you make an effort to do so.

I find her funny. And she’s a strong ally. At least she makes us feel something, react, and gets us talking. Good art does that. I won’t include her infamous political stunt in that assessment, but her body of work overall is remarkable. For however you feel about her, better or worse, she’s an incredible talent and one of many women to defy the conventions and limitations of an historically male-dominated profession. She’s been through a lot over the years. I wish Kathy peace and happiness.

A stiff mast will raise all butts…I mean boats…or a surging tide will lift them or something, I can never remember the saying 😛

I don’t use it, but other providers I know use it regularly, both older and younger than me. Never knock a provider for using what he knows works well for him…to your ultimate benefit and satisfaction. He’s doing this for your sake. Clients are preoccupied with how they look. Honestly sometimes it has a lot less to do with looks and body type. Sometimes you’re just busy taking more than one or two clients a day and subject to human emotions and life stuff gets in the way. Maybe ADHD for some. Performance anxiety plagues a few guys I know, and I have had my fair share of it in years past. Sometimes performance anxiety is even worse when you have an attractive client. Problems getting and maintaining an erection is not always about the client or how he looks. Chemistry goes a long way. You still have to get aroused naturally. Viagra/cialis etc just help you maintain an erection more easily once you have it hard. Maybe it helps you get hard more easily as you physically and mentally get yourself there, but it can’t make you get hard without stimulus, as in the case of injectables.