Exposing myself to the bright light of advice

[LivingnLA]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4IbcBowGZfU/THlhv6GH18I/AAAAAAAAAJ4/kj8gTT_K9CQ/s1600/inner-demons-2-evil.jpg

 

I'm actually nervous as I write this, so I know I'm tackling a part of me that needs to be tackled. That's always encouraging when I'm exploring myself.

 

If you've read any of my other threads or posts, you know some of my issues. I'm a married dad who's exploring same-sex interaction and my search in this particular space is for a man who can be chill while also confidently taking control and demonstrating the top-of-his-game.

 

I've had 3 interactions over the last year. The first was a criminal disaster with an escort that many love, but definitely didn't work for me. The second was Kerry and he's an awesome guy but not quite the right match for me. The third was a new guy from BP who I bought a RM membership for and he may be a solid match but I'm still self evaluating my reactions.

 

Damn. I'm starting to talk around the issue. Fuck it. How did or do you deal with your internal homophobia? Or am I over-anlyzing myself?

 

I may be over thinking a fundamental preference, but life is change for me, so I'd rather process this than ignore it. Y'all are the only "community" or "friends" I can expose this part of me to without revealing other stuff I cannot share.

 

So, internal homophobia. Am I being homophobic in my desire to have a "straight" guy in the way that I want? I really wonder if I'm setting myself up for failure because I'm so automatically "turned off" by "fem" characteristics. It can be as simple as something in a man's voice or his mannerisms. If I see something like that, I automatically no longer am interested in his top-form. I feel like I may be closing myself off to valid engagements that could be completely enjoyable and even mind opening.

 

Fire away.

[caliguy]

It is a bit homophobic since you're eliminating gay guys because of some outdated stereotypes.

 

Best way to overcome it is stop looking for strictly "straight" guys and explore interactions with all. Lots of masculine gay guys too.

[+ Truereview]

The very fact that you've already suspected it tells you that your bias is now conscious. That's a great step. We could debate this ad nauseam, but you know yourself best. You are the only one who can properly diagnose what's happening internally. I have so much to say about this, so it will be hard to contain. Here comes an epistle of my own story. Maybe there is something here that resonates? Continue exploring, -TR

 

Part 1

In my situation, I was brought up in a homophobic culture by a very liberal set of parents and family. Yet my Dad and the people in my society treated femme men with great disdain. When I was outed to my dad, after he told me he loved me just the same, in the same breath, he said something to the effect of "you are not going to go swishing around like them, are you?" Sigh...That stuff stays with you, bud. And it did.

 

My mannerisms are "masculine" and I can blend with a very hetero crowd. I guess I'm one of those no one guesses until they figure out that I'm not married - gasp! He must be gay! However, I don't feel complete at work or social situations when I'm having to watch my mannerism. So I'm just me...sometimes a butch, no holds barred macho Latino, and sometimes, I'm my femmy self. Most of the time, I'm a blend. But that bias is still there for me. I just have to control it instead of it controlling me.

 

Part 2

I had a classmate who was constantly beat up for being femme. I was not afraid of admitting my homosexuality, but I was dearly afraid of being perceived as femme. I played soccer like a maniac to demonstrate my masculinity and winning abilities- in my head, femmes couldn't win. So sad. Honestly, I'm still upset that I never stood up for my classmate. I allowed him to be beat up for who he was. I do believe his femme side was a threat to me and some of the "hetero" boys and girls in school

 

I finally faced my own fears by falling for the intellect and looks of a femme man who stole my heart. He was one of my first clients. He was a doctor, married, with grown children (in their 20s). This man was a caricature when it came to feminine mannerisms. I nearly skipped engaging him as a client bc of it - I was in my early 20s and still struggling with my own biases. Well, he proved to be 1) an amazing top ...one of my best. 2) he was a real man, a man who loved across genders and within. 3) he was brave to defy all sorts of stereotypes. He taught me that a real man is both a result of his experiences and his personal drive to outdo himself - regardless of societal barriers. Frankly, his love for me still feels, awkwardly, like the love I yearned my father would have expressed for my own homosexuality. Go figure that out!

 

I've outgrown my initial fear of femme men bc I now know they are not a threat to me. I've learned to let go slowly of my ignorance. However, that bias is still there, haunting me, creeping up in my words, behaviors, and most importantly, in whom I choose to love. I just have to control it (the bias) instead of it controlling me.

[LivingnLA]

Thank you @Truereview. Alot of what you wrote sounded like a recap of my life in some ways. Though, I don't know about it as "fear" or "threat" to me. It's more a thing about what turns me on. Perhaps, it's still repressed enough and I haven't unpacked enough to recognize it as a fear or threat response. I really like what you said about intellect because that and personality are incredibly important for me.

 

@caliguy, quite blunt but the truth hurts sometimes. Lol!

 

The first escort I hired used to ID as straight on RM and now lists as bisexual. That's how he described himself when we chatted before he robbed me. Lol!

 

Kerry, my second, identifies on RM and in conversation as bisexual and I believe him.

 

The third guy, identifies as straight and I believe him.

 

I appreciate both of your replies. Thanks.

[Rudynate]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4IbcBowGZfU/THlhv6GH18I/AAAAAAAAAJ4/kj8gTT_K9CQ/s1600/inner-demons-2-evil.jpg

 

I'm actually nervous as I write this, so I know I'm tackling a part of me that needs to be tackled. That's always encouraging when I'm exploring myself.

 

If you've read any of my other threads or posts, you know some of my issues. I'm a married dad who's exploring same-sex interaction and my search in this particular space is for a man who can be chill while also confidently taking control and demonstrating the top-of-his-game.

 

I've had 3 interactions over the last year. The first was a criminal disaster with an escort that many love, but definitely didn't work for me. The second was Kerry and he's an awesome guy but not quite the right match for me. The third was a new guy from BP who I bought a RM membership for and he may be a solid match but I'm still self evaluating my reactions.

 

Damn. I'm starting to talk around the issue. Fuck it. How did or do you deal with your internal homophobia? Or am I over-anlyzing myself?

 

I may be over thinking a fundamental preference, but life is change for me, so I'd rather process this than ignore it. Y'all are the only "community" or "friends" I can expose this part of me to without revealing other stuff I cannot share.

 

So, internal homophobia. Am I being homophobic in my desire to have a "straight" guy in the way that I want? I really wonder if I'm setting myself up for failure because I'm so automatically "turned off" by "fem" characteristics. It can be as simple as something in a man's voice or his mannerisms. If I see something like that, I automatically no longer am interested in his top-form. I feel like I may be closing myself off to valid engagements that could be completely enjoyable and even mind opening.

 

Fire away.

 

 

We're talking fantasy fulfillment here, what it is that makes your dick hard. Very often, what makes your dick hard isn't politically correct. If you had such an aversion to effeminate men that you couldn't be around them at all, that might be worth a look, but I don't see anything wrong with not relating to them as potential sex partners.

[LivingnLA]

We're talking fantasy fulfillment here, what it is that makes your dick hard. Very often, what makes your dick hard isn't politically correct. If you had such an aversion to effeminate men that you couldn't be around them at all, that might be worth a look, but I don't see anything wrong with not relating to them as potential sex partners.

 

Thanks Rudy. That helps clarify some things for me. I am not aware of any issues with friends, coworkers, and neighbors. One of my close friends is effeminate. We vacation with him, his wife and kids every year and their son plays with our daughter all the time since they have many similar interests.

[jjkrkwood]

I believe that once you come to terms with what really makes you happiest, and what you are seeking, the rest should fall into place. My only suggestion is to not force or rush it, let it happen organically, and when it comes to navigating the same-sex seas, don't try too hard. What I mean by that is that you mentioned buying a BP membership for a guy. There is no need to do things like that to make guys like you. For money, you can get almost anything, but I would think the goal would be to get guys to like you for yourself. Unless of course its a business arrangement, and then the terms and cost of that transaction need to be established "upfront" with no pressure and no surprises... Unfortunately, it's a cruel world, and if you make yourself Vulnerable there are people that will swoop in and take advantage of you. We all have an innate inborn sense to known what's right and wrong, and if something doesn't feel right, it isn't.... Trust your instincts, while at the same time leaving yourself open to try different things. Its basically a juggling act, but once you have your hands on those Balls, everything will be OK....

[LivingnLA]

@jjkrkwood, interesting, thank you. I didn't buy him the RM to "like me." I just did it as a spur of the moment thing. I really didn't think about it. Worth a bit of thought. You're right Perhaps I'm trying to force something given my experiences so far.

[+ Truereview]

We're talking fantasy fulfillment here, what it is that makes your dick hard. Very often, what makes your dick hard isn't politically correct. If you had such an aversion to effeminate men that you couldn't be around them at all, that might be worth a look, but I don't see anything wrong with not relating to them as potential sex partners.

If we all viewed the purpose of the hobby as fantasy fulfillment, I would agree. However, I would argue that the reality is that we are all in the hobby for different reasons. I think it jejune to believe that the hobby won't uncover certain biases within us, and shying away from it is a perfectly good answer for some and not so much for others. I choose exploration. That doesn't make me right or wrong. It is just my choice. Perhaps the same can apply to @LivingnLA. His choice.

 

One of my close friends is effeminate. We vacation with him, his wife and kids every year and their son plays with our daughter all the time since they have many similar interests.

Lol,,,,this statement made my teeth cringe, but I understand your good intent.

[Decatur Guy]

Concur with RudyNate and jjkrkwood.

[LivingnLA]

Lol,,,,this statement made my teeth cringe, but I understand your good intent.

 

Really? Why? Help me understand how what I said rubbed you the wrong way? I'm honestly curious. I can't promise to change or understand, but I'll promise to listen and try.

 

Did it come across as the white guy who mentions a black friend when called on his racism? That certainly wasn't my intent, but I can see how that is one reading for some people.

[jjkrkwood]

LivingLA, you will find that after some time, once you've had a few experiences, your preferences may start to evolve, and you may start to have interest in guys that held no interest for you intitially. but if that's not the case, and you have a staunch attraction to a particular type, no harm in that either..... There is no right and wrong as long as everything is safe and consensual. The main thing is to have fun, and DO NOT FEEL GUILTY.. This is who you are, accept and embrace it.

[+ Truereview]

LivingLA, you will find that after some time, once you've had a few experiences, your preferences may start to evolve, and you may start to have interest in guys that held no interest for you intitially. but if that's not the case, and you have a staunch attraction to a particular type, no harm in that either..... There is no right and wrong as long as everything is safe and consensual. The main thing is to have fun, and DO NOT FEEL GUILTY.. This is who you are, accept and embrace it.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Guilt is not productive and it can be corrosive. With that said, your choice is stop or choose to explore when something doesn't quite seem ok after a M4M inside/outside hobby experience.

 

Yes, your statement (post #6) struck me as that one of some of my best friends are (fill in the blank). To me, that statement is regressive when folks are at a critical point to ignite insight.

 

Fuck, I'm getting too deep and obviously out of my depth. Gonna jump back to my ass revolution fun.

 

PS- I love the pic on your initial post. Can you say more about it?

[Rudynate]

I choose exploration.

 

So, then, you would hire Assface on "Preacher" to explore what it's like to have sex with someone whose face was disfigured in a suicide attempt?

[+ Truereview]

So, then, you would hire Assface on "Preacher" to explore what it's like to have sex with someone whose face was disfigured in a suicide attempt?

My money, my choice - even in as a ridiculously asinine scenario as you paint. By the way, should I be reading into the aggressive posting or was that just off the cuff?

[jjkrkwood]

My money, my choice - even in as a ridiculously asinine scenario as you paint. By the way, should I be reading into the aggressive posting or was that just off the cuff?[/QUOTE]

 

 

 

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/70/7038c6b355e9a725b5a6411618bf17e4ce8a46b8b560c90031aaa051febf027c.jpg

[LivingnLA]

@Truereview, absolutely agreed. I'm not a fan of guilt. That's a major issue for some in my life and helping them work through it sometimes is very challenging.

 

Makes sense. That wasn't my intent at all, but I aboslutely see how it can be read that way and I'll do some internal processing to explore any possible negativity underpinning my word choices.

 

LOL! Sorry about that. I'm a deep thinker by temperament and profession. One of my challenges is not to over process something. Human nature is incredibly complex and there's value in exploring and processing it for knowledge and understanding, but there's absolutely a point where it becomes an Ouroborosian process.

 

Awhile ago, I searched for the terms "exposing inner demons" and this pic was near the top. It grabbed my eye and my attention. It's by a talented videogame graphic artist who was visualizing biblical demons. Very powerful and resonated with me on many levels. You can find more of this artist's work on the web, though the site hasn't been updated in years.

 

http://www.aneyeoni.com/art.htm

[Rudynate]

My money, my choice - even in as a ridiculously asinine scenario as you paint. By the way, should I be reading into the aggressive posting or was that just off the cuff?

 

 

Yes, it was a ridiculous scenario by design. But someone who was actually all about exploration just might go for it.

[+ sync]

If you've read any of my other threads or posts, you know some of my issues. I'm a married dad who's exploring same-sex interaction and my search in this particular space is for a man who can be chill while also confidently taking control and demonstrating the top-of-his-game.

 

I've had 3 interactions over the last year. The first was a criminal disaster with an escort that many love, but definitely didn't work for me. The second was Kerry and he's an awesome guy but not quite the right match for me. The third was a new guy from BP who I bought a RM membership for and he may be a solid match but I'm still self evaluating my reactions.

 

I believe you are experiencing some difficulty because you are at the "exploring" stage. It takes some time and experience to become comfortable with hiring. As you gain experience and your comfort zone expands, you will find the individual(s) who will render the fulfillment you seek. Every swing will not be a hit, but you will enjoy being in the game.

[+ Gar1eth]

It is a bit homophobic since you're eliminating gay guys because of some outdated stereotypes.

 

Best way to overcome it is stop looking for strictly "straight" guys and explore interactions with all. Lots of masculine gay guys too.

 

I'll have to partially disagree. I agree that not every gay man is effeminate but there are a lot who are-and I'm not excepting myself. Some stereotypes have a basis in fact. Some don't. But this one from my observation seems to have at least a small basis in reality.

 

I also, while not wanting to discourage @LivingnLA, want to be realistic. I unfortunately am still dealing with internal homophobia. There is hope though @LivingnLA. I'm a thousand times better-more accepting-than I ever thought I'd be.

 

So part of it will most likely come with time. Exploring your likes with escorts will assuredly help. I personally don't like straight guys-I prefer knowing the escorts I'm with enjoy being with men-even though I realize they wouldn't ever pick me. But I'm betting as you grow more comfortable in hiring, there's a good chance you will expand your likes to include gay/bisexual escorts.

 

On both these fronts-internalized homophobia and escorts, give yourself a break. You are still new and figuring out your feelings.

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

I believe you are experiencing some difficulty because you are at the "exploring" stage. It takes some time and experience to become comfortable with hiring. As you gain experience and your comfort zone expands, you will find the individual(s) who will render the fulfillment you seek. Every swing will not be a hit, but you will enjoy being in the game

 

Yes and no. My first hire was almost perfect (way before this site existed). I saw him three more time before he went back to college. It took a long while to find someone as good, but it did happen eventually and lasted for two years. I was very lucky. I completely agree with the 2nd half of the @sync post.

 

@LivingLA you may never overcome your concerns, but they may just linger somewhere in the background until mostly disappearing. Everyone has fears and concerns, you are more forthright than most people.

[+ Phactor]

So, internal homophobia. Am I being homophobic in my desire to have a "straight" guy in the way that I want? I really wonder if I'm setting myself up for failure because I'm so automatically "turned off" by "fem" characteristics. It can be as simple as something in a man's voice or his mannerisms. If I see something like that, I automatically no longer am interested in his top-form. I feel like I may be closing myself off to valid engagements that could be completely enjoyable and even mind opening.

 

You're not alone with what you're feeling. And you're not the only one who has a preference in what he wants his companion to be. Bottom line for me is that it is your time, your money, and your effort. Do what makes you happy. As with most adventures, your opinion and desires may change. But let it happen naturally. I'm confident you will find yourself exploring companions that fit outside of what attracts you today. All it takes is a little goal and a little change to expand the comfort zone.

 

Hell, it took me 3 months of lurking on this forum and debating back and forth in my head before I took the plunge and hired for the first time.

[WolfRamNHard]

There's much wisdom in the above comments, I felt compelled to read it all a second time.

 

Only thing I want to add is that there are also strong cultural and generational factors at play, in terms of what is considered "butch" or "masculine". It's noticeable when you cross the Atlantic Ocean (or the Pacific for that matter).

 

Even in America, young people increasingly seem to have a more fluid approach to gender and sexuality, which is a very good thing in my opinion.

 

Hopefully it's only a matter of time before such terms as "masculine", "straight-acting", "straight", etc. will become totally obsolete.

[RyanDean]

Not sure if it's on point or not but...

My main nudge to you @LivingnLA is to be alert to the fine-line between "type" or "preference" and a "scene" or "fetish"...

 

If masculine guys get your gears turning, it might just be that you've got a "type" that is your clear preference. (When I was a pup, I swooned for tanned blond soccer or swimmer or skater types; now in my forties, I can see the beauty of such SeanCody/BelAmi guys but am much more thrilled by older swarthier beefier furrier guys. Preferences are like one's palate. Capable of evolving and changing with experience and exposure -- if you allow.)

 

But if it's the thrill of testing/teasing the line of non-reciprocity that stirs you, you might be more in the "fetish" or "scene" zone -- which can be less about the way a guy looks and more about the way he makes you feel. Fetishes can get more (rather than less) rigid over time; they can also be passing phases. "Straight" gents often market themselves to the fetish/scene of the "straight guy" fantasy (just like certain porn sites like GayHoopla do) but, for both buyers and sellers, the "straight guy" fetish/scene can include a measure of dominance and humiliation. Which may or may not be what you want.

 

Of course, all of this can (and usually does) draw upon homophobia/heterosexism, but that's only part of the complexity of sex between dudes.

[+ purplekow]

When I first started to consider hiring a man for my first experience, I found a site with several hundred men pictured. I went through the site and there about 15 out of those men that had any appeal for me. They were all, young, muscular, handsome and exuded an air of testosterone and sweaty sex. I reviewed the thumbnail bios of those men, they all identified as straight.

I did not purposely look for straight men, but the look that was attractive to me, was a look straight identifying men had.

Eventually I hired three of those men. Two of them I hired repeatedly. The other was not geographically accessible for frequent visits.

The escorts had limits. I had limits. As we spent time together, their limits expanded and so did mine. Eventually, it was clear that even men who identify as straight are capable of enjoying a hard cock in ways that is not usually thought of as straight.

Eventually, I was to attend a conference out of town and checked out the escorts. In a city that had about 40 escorts listed, about 25 of them were on my maybe list. So after some time and experience with men, I went from an attraction to less than 10% of the pictured men, all of who were "straight" to an attraction to about 60% of the men, man of who identified as gay.

Time changes you. Experience changes you. Self tolerance, self acceptance and maturity change you. Getting your sexual needs satisfied changes you.

So right now you are more of a self loathing, self doubting, fearful closeted man who wants desperately to not want to have another straight appearing man's hard dick somewhere in or on his body, but, despite that, wants it anyway.

Time will change you. Experience will change you. If you are lucky and allow it to happen, self tolerance will change you, self assuredness will change you. It will not happen all at once.

It seems you have a lot of insight into your desires and you have a strong desire to control parts of you that will not be controlled.

Take a deep breath. Face your desire. Once you have allowed yourself the freedom of experimentation, you will know what is right for you. Good luck. The best advice at this time seems to me that you need to avoid over thinking.

In this case, listen to the little head, with a bit of a guide from the big head.