Exposing myself to the bright light of advice

[rvwnsd]

...If you've read any of my other threads or posts, you know some of my issues. I'm a married dad who's exploring same-sex interaction and my search in this particular space is for a man who can be chill while also confidently taking control and demonstrating the top-of-his-game....

 

Forgive me for being slow (not to mention being late to the party), but I don't understand what you mean. There are euphemisms and potential double entendres, but not a clear statement of what you are looking for. A good place to start would be to tell us (and yourself) what you mean.

 

...I've had 3 interactions over the last year. The first was a criminal disaster with an escort that many love, but definitely didn't work for me. The second was Kerry and he's an awesome guy but not quite the right match for me. The third was a new guy from BP who I bought a RM membership for and he may be a solid match but I'm still self evaluating my reactions....

If you don't mind elaborating, what are the reactions you are evaluating? Getting your reactions out might help you gain clarity about the situation and your own thoughts and feelings.

 

...Damn. I'm starting to talk around the issue. Fuck it. How did or do you deal with your internal homophobia? Or am I over-anlyzing myself?...

As @Truereview stated previously, the very fact that you have identified potential internal homophobia indicates you do have some. Almost everyone I know has some degree of internal homophobia, so you are in good company. However, I'm not sure your attraction toward "masculine" vs "effeminate" men is a result of homophobia or is problematic. You like what you like and don't like what you, well, don't like. Not sure this is a problem.

...I may be over thinking a fundamental preference...

I'm casting my vote on the side of "you are overthinking a preference." However, I am also casting a vote that you have some issues you need to work on and you might want to get some assistance in working through them.

 

...so I'd rather process this than ignore it. ...

Good for you!

 

...So, internal homophobia. Am I being homophobic in my desire to have a "straight" guy in the way that I want?...

My opinion is "no, your desire for a guy who is not effeminate is not homophobic in and of itself."

...I really wonder if I'm setting myself up for failure because I'm so automatically "turned off" by "fem" characteristics. It can be as simple as something in a man's voice or his mannerisms. ...

 

So...two observations. 1) You like what you like. 2) Virtually every man I know, straight, gay, bisexual, and "I don't know his orientation" have, at one time or another, made a gesture, used a tone of voice, or has said something that is other than stereotypically "masculine."

 

Every.

Single.

One.

 

...If I see something like that, I automatically no longer am interested in his top-form.

I know I asked this already, but what do you mean by his "top-form?"

..

I feel like I may be closing myself off to valid engagements that could be completely enjoyable and even mind opening....

Oh, there's no doubt that you are closing yourself off. The question is "At this point, is that important to you?" If the answer is "no," then the follow-up is "Do you see that as being important in the future and, if so, can you wait to tackle that issue so you can enjoy yourself now?"

 

This is a somewhat roundabout way of saying "enjoy yourself as the person you are now and as you evolve enjoy yourself as the person you are at each point in your evolution."

 

...Fire away.

Consider yourself having been fired upon.

 

Thank you @Truereview. Alot of what you wrote sounded like a recap of my life in some ways. Though, I don't know about it as "fear" or "threat" to me. It's more a thing about what turns me on. Perhaps, it's still repressed enough and I haven't unpacked enough to recognize it as a fear or threat response. I really like what you said about intellect because that and personality are incredibly important for me....

Given personality and intellect are both very important to you, you might want to expand your horizons in terms of the way a man presents himself. I am not suggesting that you must hire flamboyant or effeminate men. You like what you like. However, you might be getting just a tad bit too granular in your analysis of potential hires.

 

...The first escort I hired used to ID as straight on RM and now lists as bisexual. That's how he described himself when we chatted before he robbed me. Lol!

 

Kerry, my second, identifies on RM and in conversation as bisexual and I believe him.

 

The third guy, identifies as straight and I believe him...

Here's an observation: you are placing an inordinate amount of emphasis on how he self-identifies. Ask yourself why the way he self-identifies matters to you.

 

IF - it appears 3 times on your last paragraph of two thought-provoking posts. First, thank you for both posts. Second, I'm so tired of IF. That conjunction now makes me nauseous. I lived half or more of my life by IF. If I could just study there, if I could just be stronger, if I could be more manly, if he would just look at me. I'm done with if. I'm replacing it with YES. yes, I can study there; yes, I can be stronger; yes, he will look at me. No, I won't be more manly, but I don't care if he cares.

 

OMG @Truereview I just want to get under a down comforter with you and a bottle or three of wine and snuggle and talk about "if" vs "when" and euphemisms and cooking.

 

That said, I'm not fond of the word "if," as it is used entirely too frequently. Substitute the word "when" for "if." When the sentence doesn't make sense or is not possible, then ban that sentence. For example, "If I could run a marathon." For me, this is not possible without enduring significant damage to my body and quite a bit of pain along with it. It simply is not going to happen. However, I could walk 26 miles at a time with the proper training, so "When I walk a marathon" is entirely do-able.

 

@LivingnLA I have one last thing to leave you with. Well, three things:

 

1. RELAX. Take a deep breath
   
2. There is no timetable. You will work your "stuff" out in exactly the right amount of time. Not one second less and not one second more.
   
3. Be good to yourself. Avoid beating yourself up, judging yourself, and over-analyzing yourself. When you are good to yourself others will be good to you.
   

[+ Truereview]

OMG @Truereview I just want to get under a down comforter with you and a bottle or three of wine and snuggle and talk about "if" vs "when" and euphemisms and cooking.

When we do this, will it be red or white wine? I vote for both...why limit our choices?

[rvwnsd]

When we do this, will it be red or white wine? I vote for both...why limit our choices?

Most whites make my stomach rumble, but I always have a bottle in the fridge for guests. I'm partial to Zins and Malbecs.

[LivingnLA]

(great stuff removed)

 

Thanks @rvwnsd. I appreciate the close reading. I'm running around so not in a good place to respond to your queries, but I'll followup. Have a great day.

[rvwnsd]

Thanks @rvwnsd. I appreciate the close reading. I'm running around so not in a good place to respond to your queries, but I'll followup. Have a great day.

You do the same!!

[klifhangar]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, you're currently married, right? Could it just be that you're dealing with guilt over that?

 

I do understand what you're saying. I'm constantly frustrated by the fact that I am attracted to straight buddies in an intense way but can hook up with an equally or more handsome gay dude and it does nothing for me. I don't know how else to figure it out but to search your soul and possibly have more experiences. I am learning more about myself exactly this way.

 

Sometimes, your aversion isn't what you think it is. I will mess around and think "He's hawt, he's nice, he's attentive - why am I only moderately turned on?" then realize that it isn't about him, it's about me. Some factors for me:

- Age old catholic guilt - hard to shut off. I have to remind myself that I'm single and I can do whatever the fuck I want

- Being attracted by affection and familiarity so getting some "strange' doesn't do it for me. My attraction to friends is based on the fact that I truly care about them. You don't get that with a stranger

- There is some mystique in the old "what you can't have"

- Feeling less attractive myself. This is a biggie for me. I am in decent shape for a 50ish dude. However, I was ripped through my mid 40's. I have realized while playing around recently that not feeling super sexy kills my libido. I jumped back into the program so am looking to have bang'n body again in the next few months. But I am realizing that it is harder to feel sexual when you don't feel like a hottie yourself. At least for me.

[Rudynate]

 

- Feeling less attractive myself. This is a biggie for me. I am in decent shape for a 50ish dude. However, I was ripped through my mid 40's. I have realized while playing around recently that not feeling super sexy kills my libido. I jumped back into the program so am looking to have bang'n body again in the next few months. But I am realizing that it is harder to feel sexual when you don't feel like a hottie yourself. At least for me.

 

Get yer hormones checked.

[rvwnsd]

Here's a question: There are many guys who find effeminate men to be attractive and do not find non-effeminate men attractive. Is this heterophobia?

[LivingnLA]

Forgive me for being slow (not to mention being late to the party), but I don't understand what you mean. There are euphemisms and potential double entendres, but not a clear statement of what you are looking for. A good place to start would be to tell us (and yourself) what you mean.

 

I'd prefer not to be too explicit when discussing such activities because this server is in America, Daddy is presumably an American, and if the powers that be ever decide to grab it, I would rather not have a ton of self-incriminating confessions on here.

 

What I will say, is that throughout my personal assessment of my sex life, I have predominately been a Dominant top in my marriage, with my girlfriends before my wife, and with a couple of buddies over the years. However, I've had a couple experiences with friends over the years where I ended up on my knees and having a hell of a time taking care of my friend. Those very limited experiences were some of the hottest in my sexual life, which is decently varied. What those experiences led me to realize is that I may have a largely unexplored submissive side--in BDSM terms, I may be a Switch--and that I really want to experience bottoming in a variety of ways to see if that activity is a missing puzzle-piece in my sexuality. Does that help?

 

If you don't mind elaborating, what are the reactions you are evaluating? Getting your reactions out might help you gain clarity about the situation and your own thoughts and feelings.

 

Well, that first horrible experience last year left some marks. I've found I'm more cautious even possibly paranoid than I used to be. I was some-what disappointed because time flew by and I didn't experience everything I wanted. I understand my reactions are excessive. I know I was demanding and my expectations were sky high. I also know I'm a generous person emotionally--hello? look how transparent I'm being in a public forum--and financially. So, I need to think about how it all settles out so I don't get myself into a situation where I'm taken advantage of.

 

As @Truereview stated previously, the very fact that you have identified potential internal homophobia indicates you do have some. Almost everyone I know has some degree of internal homophobia, so you are in good company. However, I'm not sure your attraction toward "masculine" vs "effeminate" men is a result of homophobia or is problematic. You like what you like and don't like what you, well, don't like. Not sure this is a problem.

.

.

.

I'm casting my vote on the side of "you are overthinking a preference." However, I am also casting a vote that you have some issues you need to work on and you might want to get some assistance in working through them.

.

.

.

My opinion is "no, your desire for a guy who is not effeminate is not homophobic in and of itself."

 

We all have internal bigotries and prejudices, but I take your point. I've done a fair bit of processing this week in my spare time and while I may be self-denying, I don't believe my reactions are driven by internalized homophobia. I suspect it has more to do with my acculturation growing up that developed a primary "type" for this set of sexual fantasies.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll continue exploring, but I'm tending to agree with you and multiple other forum members who've shared this perspective.

 

So...two observations. 1) You like what you like. 2) Virtually every man I know, straight, gay, bisexual, and "I don't know his orientation" have, at one time or another, made a gesture, used a tone of voice, or has said something that is other than stereotypically "masculine."

 

Every.

Single.

One.

 

Yes, absolutely and this is the only issue that suggests to me a possible internalized homophobic issue. Interestingly, as you've said, every guy has "fem" moments. This is the focus of my internal processing right now. I'm slowly unpacking this one.

 

..... TO BE CONTINUED .....

[LivingnLA]

I know I asked this already, but what do you mean by his "top-form?"

.

.

.

Oh, there's no doubt that you are closing yourself off. The question is "At this point, is that important to you?" If the answer is "no," then the follow-up is "Do you see that as being important in the future and, if so, can you wait to tackle that issue so you can enjoy yourself now?"

.

.

.

This is a somewhat roundabout way of saying "enjoy yourself as the person you are now and as you evolve enjoy yourself as the person you are at each point in your evolution."

.

.

.

Consider yourself having been fired upon.

 

I hope I adequately answered the top question above.

 

Yes, and thank you for being so upfront about that because at this point, I don't believe it is important to me. Yes, it's for a future tackling. Lol.

 

I enjoyed the barrage. I hope I adequately returned fire.

 

Given personality and intellect are both very important to you, you might want to expand your horizons in terms of the way a man presents himself. I am not suggesting that you must hire flamboyant or effeminate men. You like what you like. However, you might be getting just a tad bit too granular in your analysis of potential hires.

.

.

.

Here's an observation: you are placing an inordinate amount of emphasis on how he self-identifies. Ask yourself why the way he self-identifies matters to you.

 

Agreed about granularity. And I appreciate the observation because this week I figured this out already and it's leading me down some interesting internal roads.

 

OMG @Truereview I just want to get under a down comforter with you and a bottle or three of wine and snuggle and talk about "if" vs "when" and euphemisms and cooking.

 

That said, I'm not fond of the word "if," as it is used entirely too frequently. Substitute the word "when" for "if." When the sentence doesn't make sense or is not possible, then ban that sentence. For example, "If I could run a marathon." For me, this is not possible without enduring significant damage to my body and quite a bit of pain along with it. It simply is not going to happen. However, I could walk 26 miles at a time with the proper training, so "When I walk a marathon" is entirely do-able.

 

I love this and while it wasn't meant for me, I'll happily buy a bottle of wine for @rvwnsd and @Truereview to cuddle over.

 

@LivingnLA I have one last thing to leave you with. Well, three things:

1. RELAX. Take a deep breath
   
2. There is no timetable. You will work your "stuff" out in exactly the right amount of time. Not one second less and not one second more.
   
3. Be good to yourself. Avoid beating yourself up, judging yourself, and over-analyzing yourself. When you are good to yourself others will be good to you.
   

 

Thanks. I'll take these words of wisdom to heart.

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding, you're currently married, right? Could it just be that you're dealing with guilt over that?

 

Yes, and no. Guilt doesn't factor in at all. I've thoroughly explored that angle.

 

I do understand what you're saying. I'm constantly frustrated by the fact that I am attracted to straight buddies in an intense way but can hook up with an equally or more handsome gay dude and it does nothing for me. I don't know how else to figure it out but to search your soul and possibly have more experiences. I am learning more about myself exactly this way.

 

I'm no longer frustrated by it because this exchange has helped me discover some root issues for me, so as often happens with me, the negative emotions have receded as the contour of my motivations have been revealed. Now, I'm working through those to decide how important they are, whether to work on modifying them, etc.

 

Sometimes, your aversion isn't what you think it is. I will mess around and think "He's hawt, he's nice, he's attentive - why am I only moderately turned on?" then realize that it isn't about him, it's about me. Some factors for me:

- Age old catholic guilt - hard to shut off. I have to remind myself that I'm single and I can do whatever the fuck I want

- Being attracted by affection and familiarity so getting some "strange' doesn't do it for me. My attraction to friends is based on the fact that I truly care about them. You don't get that with a stranger

- There is some mystique in the old "what you can't have"

- Feeling less attractive myself. This is a biggie for me. I am in decent shape for a 50ish dude. However, I was ripped through my mid 40's. I have realized while playing around recently that not feeling super sexy kills my libido. I jumped back into the program so am looking to have bang'n body again in the next few months. But I am realizing that it is harder to feel sexual when you don't feel like a hottie yourself. At least for me.

 

Yes, all of this is ultimately about each of us, since it's our own internal issues, motivations, histories, etc. that create the narratives we inhabit. Yes, religion is a tricky one. I hope you're working through it successfully.

 

The attracted to friends thing is an interesting dynamic. Any thoughts on how you plan to address it for yourself?

 

Haha, yes, that mystique does play a role for me too. That was part of my self-learning this week.

 

Oh? I agree with @Rudynate, you may wish to have a hormone panel done by a endocrinologist. I'm sure you know the old saying about testosterone declining as we age, right? Well, did you know current research shows it isn't age that leads to the decline, but other factors, such as obesity, cardiovascular diseases, glandular issues, etc.

 

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20110607/testosterone-decline-not-inevitable-with-age

[Becket]

someone said earlier, "give yourself a break." That's about it.

[+ WmClarke]

@LivingnLA , starting this topic was an incredibly brave thing to do. Amidst all the thoughtful advice, don't forget to do this:

 

someone said earlier, "give yourself a break." That's about it.

[klifhangar]

Get yer hormones checked.

 

Why this suggestion? I didn't suddenly lose muscle mass etc. I got divorced and stopped working out. Is it because of the drop in libido?

[LivingnLA]

@Gar1eth, @Becket, and @WmClarke I appreciate the "give yourself a break" advice. As I've said more than once, I'm a deep thinker and coupling that with my upbringing, education, and experiences, overthinking is an issue especially with personal topics because human behavior fascinates me. Oooo shiny!

[LivingnLA]

Why this suggestion? I didn't suddenly lose muscle mass etc. I got divorced and stopped working out. Is it because of the drop in libido?

 

You mentioned loss of muscle tone, lowered libido, and depression. In men, those symptoms may be related to hormonal changes. As we age our lifestyles tend to change, so it's worth checking on our hormones occasionally, especially if certain symptoms appear.

 

http://www.webmd.com/men/guide/male-menopause

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/mens-health/in-depth/male-menopause/art-20048056

 

http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/06/25/testosterone-decline-linked-to-depression-smoking-obesity-but-not-aging/40620.html

[LADoug1]

This thread is the reason I follow the Forum even though I haven't hired in quite some time.

[Rudynate]

Why this suggestion? I didn't suddenly lose muscle mass etc. I got divorced and stopped working out. Is it because of the drop in libido?

 

 

Yes, and your age. Having low T doesn't make you any less of a man. It just makes you a man who could use replacement therapy.

[+ Truereview]

Most whites make my stomach rumble, but I always have a bottle in the fridge for guests. I'm partial to Zins and Malbecs.

I find Zins and Malbecs not masculine enough;), but I guess it is about time I expand my taste in wines. I'm an eager student.

As I've said more than once, I'm a deep thinker and coupling that with my upbringing, education, and experiences, overthinking is an issue especially with personal topics because human behavior fascinates me. Oooo shiny!

This post is the reason I follow the Forum ...

@LADoug1 nailed it for me, and @LivingnLA, I, for one, appreciate the deep thought you are giving this, and I also appreciate those who chime in moving the conversation forward. Now you've done it....you moved me to post...AGAIN!

 

::::soapbox alert::::

I think our US culture is very transactional and the way men socialize in our country is very limiting. Don't get me wrong, I love my USA, and, obviously, I love all sorts men (looks at Ass Revolutiom and Pecs & Nips threads)

Both our US culture and definition of manhood pose a challenge to what you've posed as a thread topic.

• Examples of US culture being transactional: you go to your favorite wine bar, hopefully you are recognized and greeted with a smile (servers/hosts are always changing); you ask for you favorite wine, you get it served (hopefully)in a friendly manner. If you are lucky, you engage in some nice chit-chat with patrons or your server. You get a buzz, you might learn more about the wine list, you leave. In Uruguay or Argentina (for example), I go to my favorite wine bar (or version thereof); I get greeted with a hug and a kiss by a bartender (regardless of gender). That bartender has been there since the bar opened 10 years ago because he/she loves the job. The patrons I know put their drink down & come greet me, while new patrons just give me a friendly nod or raise their wine glass as a greeting. When the owner of the establishment arrives, we chat about our families, the latest wine, the new imports. The guy next to us says he brought a couple of bottles of a new liqueur he wants to share with the crowd. The owner doesn't hesitate and instead goes to grab glasses for all. Food is delivered or cooked on the spot. You look at your watch, 6 hours have flown by. You walk away having engaged, learned about wine and people, your horizons have expanded. You had a good time. In fact, you had a great time! Your trip to the wine bar was relational, not transactional. Transactions don't require deep thought. Relations require mutual investment.
  
• Examples of manhood in the US: manhood in our country is defined by achievement, competition, steadiness, silent hard work, decisiveness, succinct communication, answers to questions, solutions to problems. I'm sure there is a ton more I'm missing in that definition, and there are exceptions to it. However, most men here in the US are expected to act like a machine without much interest in our feelings and emotions. Go, go, go. Even the word bromance has a bit of forbidden tone to it - with possibly a derisive homosexual tint to it. I think our younger generations of men are more apt to talk about feelings and emotions, but in this forum (for example) there is a decidedly harsh slant to keep your chin up, think about terms logically and steady. You will get tough love by all of us. You will get answers, solutions, direction...but hardly ever any true public discussion and emotional connection. That is all saved for PMs - if you are lucky. If emotions are thrown out in the public forum - particularly emotions that denote or connote weakness - there is a lot of humor thrown in to make it less foreign and taboo. Now, here comes a relative newbie (you) who dares to think deep and pose a profound question in or forum not just about hiring, but about the very subject of manhood & our same-sex attraction to what we define masculine and man is.
  

We, men, are often trapped in a box (our US cultural norms and our definition of manhood). We act and love based on the size of that box. Your thread feels uncomfortable. Your expression of introspection is foreign ( how dare you think and feel outloud!). You've shaken our box, @LivingnLA. And some of us are shaken, oblivious, or (perhaps/hopefully?) awaken. Maybe the title of your thread has morphed? Could it be that WE are now exposed to the bright light of our own communal advice?

[AndreFuture]

most men here in the US are expected to act like a machine without much interest in our feelings and emotions.

 

If this isn't the most apt description of manhood in the U.S.… *sigh*

[LivingnLA]

I find Zins and Malbecs not masculine enough;), but I guess it is about time I expand my taste in wines. I'm an eager student.

 

I agree about Zins, those wacky Cali fruits n nuts or weirdo Frenchies!

 

But, Malbecs are ARGENTINAIAN! Real men live there.

 

@LADoug1 nailed it for me, and @LivingnLA, I, for one, appreciate the deep thought you are giving this, and I also appreciate those who chime in moving the conversation forward. Now you've done it....you moved me to post...AGAIN!

 

::::soapbox alert::::

I think our US culture is very transactional and the way men socialize in our country is very limiting. Don't get me wrong, I love my USA, and, obviously, I love all sorts men (looks at Ass Revolutiom and Pecs & Nips threads)

Both our US culture and definition of manhood pose a challenge to what you've posed as a thread topic.

• Examples of US culture being transactional: you go to your favorite wine bar, hopefully you are recognized and greeted with a smile (servers/hosts are always changing); you ask for you favorite wine, you get it served (hopefully)in a friendly manner. If you are lucky, you engage in some nice chit-chat with patrons or your server. You get a buzz, you might learn more about the wine list, you leave. In Uruguay or Argentina (for example), I go to my favorite wine bar (or version thereof); I get greeted with a hug and a kiss by a bartender (regardless of gender). That bartender has been there since the bar opened 10 years ago because he/she loves the job. The patrons I know put their drink down & come greet me, while new patrons just give me a friendly nod or raise their wine glass as a greeting. When the owner of the establishment arrives, we chat about our families, the latest wine, the new imports. The guy next to us says he brought a couple of bottles of a new liqueur he wants to share with the crowd. The owner doesn't hesitate and instead goes to grab glasses for all. Food is delivered or cooked on the spot. You look at your watch, 6 hours have flown by. You walk away having engaged, learned about wine and people, your horizons have expanded. You had a good time. In fact, you had a great time! Your trip to the wine bar was relational, not transactional. Transactions don't require deep thought. Relations require mutual investment.
  
• Examples of manhood in the US: manhood in our country is defined by achievement, competition, steadiness, silent hard work, decisiveness, succinct communication, answers to questions, solutions to problems. I'm sure there is a ton more I'm missing in that definition, and there are exceptions to it. However, most men here in the US are expected to act like a machine without much interest in our feelings and emotions. Go, go, go. Even the word bromance has a bit of forbidden tone to it - with possibly a derisive homosexual tint to it. I think our younger generations of men are more apt to talk about feelings and emotions, but in this forum (for example) there is a decidedly harsh slant to keep your chin up, think about terms logically and steady. You will get tough love by all of us. You will get answers, solutions, direction...but hardly ever any true public discussion and emotional connection. That is all saved for PMs - if you are lucky. If emotions are thrown out in the public forum - particularly emotions that denote or connote weakness - there is a lot of humor thrown in to make it less foreign and taboo. Now, here comes a relative newbie (you) who dares to think deep and pose a profound question in or forum not just about hiring, but about the very subject of manhood & our same-sex attraction to what we define masculine and man is.
  

We, men, are often trapped in a box (our US cultural norms and our definition of manhood). We act and love based on the size of that box. Your thread feels uncomfortable. Your expression of introspection is foreign ( how dare you think and feel outloud!). You've shaken our box, @LivingnLA. And some of us are shaken, oblivious, or (perhaps/hopefully?) awaken. Maybe the title of your thread has morphed? Could it be that WE are now exposed to the bright light of our own communal advice?

 

Thank you. I'm a solid GenXer and run very counter to the Baby Boomer, "stiff upper lip" masculinity many Americans exhibit. I thank my parents for that because both were deep thinkers and they encouraged me to develop that way. Yes! *fist pump* I'm glad I moved you again. Getting virtually physical with you is fun.

 

Yes, I love this soapbox--feel free to whip it out any time--because it touches on so many great observations. The transactional nature of American relationships likely stems from our "individual mythos." We value "independence" over community and family. I could list countless examples of how our country's collective psyche builds and reinforces this meme.

[+ Truereview]

But, Malbecs are ARGENTINAIAN! Real men live there.

Look at you Mr. Smarty Pants, you got my little inside joke! Btw, I may get shot back in Argentina, but I prefer the Cahors grapes from the south of France for Malbec.

 

Yes! *fist pump* I'm glad I moved you again.

No fist pump for me, my wrist is limp Air kisses

[rvwnsd]

I find Zins and Malbecs not masculine enough;), but I guess it is about time I expand my taste in wines. I'm an eager student....

 

@Truereview, honey, you are so cute when you're sharing your insecurities. Throw caution to the wind! Shake off the yoke of masculinity/femininity!! Be secure enough in your masculinity to not care that you are drinking a glass of femme red wine.

 

DRINK THAT ZIN PROUDLY AND DON'T CARE WHO IS WATCHING!!!

 

But for God's sake don't cross your legs like that. People are looking. (I'm kidding)

 

...@LADoug1 nailed it for me, and @LivingnLA, I, for one, appreciate the deep thought you are giving this, and I also appreciate those who chime in moving the conversation forward. Now you've done it....you moved me to post...AGAIN!...

Will someone get the man a Malbec, please? Get me one too, please. Yes, large pour. VERY large pour!

 

...::::soapbox alert::::...

Fuck it! Bring the bottle.

 

But seriously, folks, I agree with what @Truereview said about culture and masculinity. My two cents is there are places where interactions are less transactional and more along the lines of what he described. Do they exist in New York, LA, or Chicago? I've found exactly one (it was in Chicago) but the proprietor sold out to someone else. Of course, there are probably more, but one needs to find them. Here in San Diego I've found three and two of them are owned by the same person. An additional two cents (thank goodness I had four pennies) is men are becoming more willing to share and discuss feelings and motivations. Regarding "tough love," when one asks a question, one will get an answer. And oftentimes the answer is one we don't (or maybe we do) want to hear.

 

...I'm a solid GenXer and run very counter to the Baby Boomer, "stiff upper lip" masculinity many Americans exhibit. I thank my parents for that because both were deep thinkers and they encouraged me to develop that way. ...

@LivingLA, you just touched on a topic that is very near and dear to my heart and I want to thank you for doing so. I am one of those forgotten people who were born on the tippy tail end of the Baby Boom but before the start of GenX. Well, that is according to the original parameters of GenX. Once it was expanded to include 1964, I was in. I never felt like the mores and constructs of the Baby Boom fit me. I never cared who was watching - I did what and presented myself as I wanted. That was instilled in me by my parents and older relatives.

 

...Yes! *fist pump*...

 

...No fist pump for me, my wrist is limp Air kisses

Not much of a fist-pumper, myself. May I give you a "go, gurrl" instead?

[+ Funguy]

 

What I will say, is that throughout my personal assessment of my sex life, I have predominately been a Dominant top in my marriage, with my girlfriends before my wife, and with a couple of buddies over the years. However, I've had a couple experiences with friends over the years where I ended up on my knees and having a hell of a time taking care of my friend. Those very limited experiences were some of the hottest in my sexual life, which is decently varied. What those experiences led me to realize is that I may have a largely unexplored submissive side--in BDSM terms, I may be a Switch--and that I really want to experience bottoming in a variety of ways to see if that activity is a missing puzzle-piece in my sexuality. Does that help?

 

..... TO BE CONTINUED .....

 

Do not forget, LivingnLA, that there are Doms who happen to be bottoms while still taking the dominant role. A bottom is not necessarily a Sub! Especially a power-bottom.

[LivingnLA]

Do not forget, LivingnLA, that there are Doms who happen to be bottoms while still taking the dominant role. A bottom is not necessarily a Sub! Especially a power-bottom.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that, as I tried to say, but clearly my words were poorly chosen. Thanks for the clarification.

[mike carey]

@Truereview, I think that is an Anglo culture thing, not just USA. And I want to go to your bar in Punta! (In the absence of 2c coins now, I have to work up more to say before I have 5 cents worth to contribute!)