Exposing myself to the bright light of advice

[LivingnLA]

Thank you @WolfRamNHard, @RyanDean, and @purplekow. I truly appreciate all the advice in this thread. Much of what Ryan says resonates with me almost immediately. I explored BDSM quite a bit in my 20s, but only as a Dom and as I age, I believe part of what's driving my interest is a desire to be Dominated by a "man." Yes, I understand the sexism and homophobia loaded in that statement. Please try not to judge me as I'm being very transparent and open here. I'm considering this a safe space.

 

Wolf, yes, watching my sons grow up and how they and their friends interact give me great hope for the future, in terms of acceptance for the true complexity of human intimacy and sexuality. Europe is ahead in some ways, but behind in others because many of them haven't actually processed these issues the way many Americans have as a country. They don't have an authentic awareness of these issues in my opinion, but I'm speaking in gross generalities so I'm bound to be wrong about large numbers of people even if I'm right about others.

 

Purple, thank you for sharing your experiences. They're informative and helpful. I don't believe the fear/loathing angle applies to me, but I'll certainly do some inner exploring to see if I'm missing something.

[LADoug1]

I recommend "The Velvet Rage " by Dr. Alan Downs". A must read for those struggling with coming out and internalized homophobia.

[BasketBaller]

As I've posted before I avoided admitting to my sexuality until my mid 20s and didn't act on it until I was over 30. While I've sampled many "types" my initial fantasiesc were about guys who were similar to the way I perceived myself-- "regular guys." Not super macho, not bodybuilders, not model-gorgeous, not twinky, not effeminate. Not because I DISliked any of those (and I've tried them all) but I just liked guys like me. Decent looking, a little jockish, with a friendly demeanor. I learned quickly that I have a strong preference for guys taller than me, not sure why. But again, I don't dislike short guys, just prefer tall ones.

[LivingnLA]

As I've posted before I avoided admitting to my sexuality until my mid 20s and didn't act on it until I was over 30. While I've sampled many "types" my initial fantasiesc were about guys who were similar to the way I perceived myself-- "regular guys." Not super macho, not bodybuilders, not model-gorgeous, not twinky, not effeminate. Not because I DISliked any of those (and I've tried them all) but I just liked guys like me. Decent looking, a little jockish, with a friendly demeanor. I learned quickly that I have a strong preference for guys taller than me, not sure why. But again, I don't dislike short guys, just prefer tall ones.

 

Thank you! That resonates for me quite a bit. Yes, I strongly prefer taller guys too, though I'm aware that it stems from my desire to be dominated or controlled. At least, that's my suspicion. Since I'm relatively tall, it's challenging to find a guy taller than me, but I have hope.

[Rudynate]

I learned quickly that I have a strong preference for guys taller than me, not sure why.

 

I love tall men. My partner is 6'3". I even like very tall men - like 6'5".

[LivingnLA]

I love tall men. My partner is 6'3". I even like very tall men - like 6'5".

 

I'm over 6'2" so it's a challenge for me to find taller guys but time is slowly changing. I see much taller guys in the gym regularly. So, nutrition and selective breeding continue to push the species toward the sky.

[+ Funguy]

I'm over 6'2" so it's a challenge for me to find taller guys but time is slowly changing. I see much taller guys in the gym regularly. So, nutrition and selective breeding continue to push the species toward the sky.

 

You should try Bryan Knight when he comes out here from NYC. He is 6'6" and can be a pussy cat or a lion - whichever you prefer. Also, Lance Navarro (from SF) at 6'4" is a great choice.

[+ azdr0710]

I recommend "The Velvet Rage " by Dr. Alan Downs". A must read for those struggling with coming out and internalized homophobia.

 

thanks, LAD.....will look for it.....

 

https://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/1611746450

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49418.The_Velvet_Rage

[BasketBaller]

Thank you! That resonates for me quite a bit. Yes, I strongly prefer taller guys too, though I'm aware that it stems from my desire to be dominated or controlled. At least, that's my suspicion. Since I'm relatively tall, it's challenging to find a guy taller than me, but I have hope.

 

Interestingly, one of the reasons I hesitated so long after my wife's death to give in to my fantasy and try sex with a man was that while I was curious about bottoming, I was reluctant to play a submissive role. Once I took the plunge I learned that top/bottom doesn't necessarily equal dom/sub, but I had a lot of misconceptions to get past. I guess the reason I prefer an affable, friendly personality is that it makes it feel more like we're equal partners in the encounter.

 

Having said that, I don't mind a bit when a top gets assertive as things progress, LOL!

[+ Truereview]

...Having said that, I don't mind a bit when a top gets assertive as things progress, LOL!

BOING!

http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/08/boing_boing-70417.gif

[MikeyGMin]

was curious about bottoming, I was reluctant to play a submissive role. Once I took the plunge I learned that top/bottom doesn't necessarily equal dom/sub,

 

It can be quite an epiphany for guys who have only been exposed to stereotypes and begin exploring late in life. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but in my experience the two often do align -- a bottom who is mostly submissive and a top who is mostly dominant. You just can't make assumptions.

 

My position is mostly bottom, but I'm actually pretty dominant when rolling around. My very favorite thing is to play with a total top who will let me take control. I just don't push it to the point of actually trying to top them. Good time for me and it doesn't seem to be a problem for them once the trust is established.

[LivingnLA]

Interestingly, one of the reasons I hesitated so long after my wife's death to give in to my fantasy and try sex with a man was that while I was curious about bottoming, I was reluctant to play a submissive role. Once I took the plunge I learned that top/bottom doesn't necessarily equal dom/sub, but I had a lot of misconceptions to get past. I guess the reason I prefer an affable, friendly personality is that it makes it feel more like we're equal partners in the encounter.

 

Having said that, I don't mind a bit when a top gets assertive as things progress, LOL!

 

Lol! Yes, Dom/sub and top/bottom are independent though they often align, similar to orientations and activity. But, I knew a sub once who was exclusively a top, at least with me. It was ALOT of fun tying him up and edging him for an hour or two. If I decided to let him cum, he'd sometimes black out.

[BasketBaller]

It can be quite an epiphany for guys who have only been exposed to stereotypes and begin exploring late in life.

"Epiphany" is the exact way I would describe it. I was nervous, scared even, and struggling with what it would "mean" that I had done this, or rather, let a guy do this to me. Once he was inside me, the lightbulb went off. And once we got going, my reaction was basically "why did I put this off for so long?!?"

[WolfRamNHard]

I was reading a book review on Gawker and came upon this particular quote which struck a chord --

 

"In this environment, if you do not fit into the narrow, ever-shifting definition of what is masculine and therefore acceptable, life becomes a constant, exhausting effort to stay on what you are told is the right side of the cool/gay divide. You study older, more secure-looking boys for cues on how to talk, how to walk, how to yawn and cough and laugh, so that you will be acceptable. You make a hundred thousand micro-decisions about your behavior before lunch. You never exactly get it—you can’t wear coolness and masculinity as effortlessly as the boys who are born with it—but you can fool some people. And when you can’t, when you hear things like “man up” or “quit being such a faggot,” you don’t recognize these comments as bullying, you take them as you would notes on a performance. I should be better at not being me, you think. Thanks for the reminder."

http://gawker.com/dave-holmess-party-of-one-is-the-latest-great-gay-ameri-1782918028

 

Disclaimer: I haven't actually read the book, but the reviewer Rich Juzwiak is one of my favorite writers on Gawker, and since he recommends it so highly I definitely plan on checking it out.

[WolfRamNHard]

I love tall men. My partner is 6'3". I even like very tall men - like 6'5".

 

Apologies for the threadjack, but this reminded me of a conversation I had with a Scruff buddy of mine who was lamenting that everyone he ran into was into taller men. To paraphrase him - "You ask the 5'4" guys and they say they like taller men. You ask the 5'9" guys and they want a taller man. You ask the 6'1" guys and they also say they like taller men. So the short guys like the tall guys, but the tall guys have no interest in reciprocating because they're holding out for someone even taller. No wonder that no one is satisfied."

 

Something similar could be said about the "straight-acting" phenomenon. When the "not-so-masculine" guys are only interested in "masculine" guys, and the "masculine" guys in turn are only interested in uber-"masculine" guys, this relentless pursuit of masculinity by all parties is obviously going to lead to much dissatisfaction.

 

This is where conventional heterosexuals can claim an advantage over us. When masculine men are seeking feminine women and vice versa; when tall men are into short women and vice versa, etc., it all works out for the involved parties, and fewer people get left out. In other words, it is mutually beneficial.

 

But if you had a situation where a 6'2" straight man was only into women taller than him, or a very conventionally masculine straight man was only into women more butch than him, that could be a problem because it would seriously limit his options. But in reality it is uncommon for straight men to actively seek out women who are taller or more masculine than them, so it generally works out for them. (There are other issues here related to sexism of course, but that's not the point.)

 

This is one of the challenges of being gay. If the gays weren't so hung up on masculinity, if "masculine" gay men weren't afraid of interacting with those perceived to be less masculine, and if those considered less masculine weren't turned off by others like themselves, there would be so many more mutually compatible partners for everyone to choose from, leading to much more satisfaction for all.

[+ Truereview]

This is one of the challenges of being gay. If the gays weren't so hung up on masculinity, if "masculine" gay men weren't afraid of interacting with those perceived to be less masculine, and if those considered less masculine weren't turned off by others like themselves, there would be so many more mutually compatible partners for everyone to choose from, leading to much more satisfaction for all.

IF - it appears 3 times on your last paragraph of two thought-provoking posts. First, thank you for both posts. Second, I'm so tired of IF. That conjunction now makes me nauseous. I lived half or more of my life by IF. If I could just study there, if I could just be stronger, if I could be more manly, if he would just look at me. I'm done with if. I'm replacing it with YES. yes, I can study there; yes, I can be stronger; yes, he will look at me. No, I won't be more manly, but I don't care if he cares.

[Rudynate]

 

Something similar could be said about the "straight-acting" phenomenon. When the "not-so-masculine" guys are only interested in "masculine" guys, and the "masculine" guys in turn are only interested in uber-"masculine" guys, this relentless pursuit of masculinity by all parties is obviously going to lead to much dissatisfaction.

 

 

 

But somehow it all works out. So, it really isn't that big a problem. Everybody has their fantasy type. And they typically realize that it isn't realistic to hold out for their fantasy type. Fortunately for me, even though I have a special thing for tall men, I also like men of average height, and I have a second special thing for short men with fireplug builds.

 

Unless one is flexible, the sexual marketplace is generally a frustrating phenomenon no matter whether you're gay or straight.

[WolfRamNHard]

IF - it appears 3 times on your last paragraph of two thought-provoking posts. First, thank you for both posts. Second, I'm so tired of IF. That conjunction now makes me nauseous. I lived half or more of my life by IF. If I could just study there, if I could just be stronger, if I could be more manly, if he would just look at me. I'm done with if. I'm replacing it with YES. yes, I can study there; yes, I can be stronger; yes, he will look at me. No, I won't be more manly, but I don't care if he cares.

 

Very well put, Truereview.

 

Upon re-reading what I posted, I admit that it could have been worded much better. Blame it on insomnia

 

Also, sincere apologies if that came across as too heavy-handed or offended anyone in any way. That was truly not my intent.

[WolfRamNHard]

But somehow it all works out. So, it really isn't that big a problem. Everybody has their fantasy type. And they typically realize that it isn't realistic to hold out for their fantasy type. Fortunately for me, even though I have a special thing for tall men, I also like men of average height, and I have a second special thing for short men with fireplug builds.

 

Unless one is flexible, the sexual marketplace is generally a frustrating phenomenon no matter whether you're gay or straight.

 

With respect - the fact that body image issues, depression, suicide, etc. are more prevalent among the gays than in the general population implies that it *is* in fact a problem for many.

 

But I'm happy for you that it's not a problem for you.

[Rudynate]

With respect - the fact that body image issues, depression, suicide, etc. are more prevalent among the gays than in the general population implies that it *is* in fact a problem for many.

 

 

They do that to themselves by allowing themselves to get sucked in by the images of the sexual marketplace.

[oscarkin]

Maybe in the best of all possible worlds everyone would be person-driven rather than type-driven but in the real world type-driven attraction still rules. I’ve spent far too much time analyzing my own life-long attraction to certain types. Part of that attraction is clearly an attempt to fulfill a longing for something that I couldn’t have at some other point in my life. But part of it is also compensatory – the idea that masculinity is some sort of transferable commodity and that if I could only find my ideal partner (taller, stronger, fill in the blank) he would provide me with the elements of masculinity that I lacked. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to realize how limiting this way of thinking is. I’ve stopped worrying about the whole question of masculinity. I’ve also made a conscious decision to go against type. The process is ongoing but so far the results have been pleasantly surprising.

[Rudynate]

Maybe in the best of all possible worlds everyone would be person-driven rather than type-driven but in the real world type-driven attraction still rules. I’ve spent far too much time analyzing my own life-long attraction to certain types. Part of that attraction is clearly an attempt to fulfill a longing for something that I couldn’t have at some other point in my life. But part of it is also compensatory – the idea that masculinity is some sort of transferable commodity and that if I could only find my ideal partner (taller, stronger, fill in the blank) he would provide me with the elements of masculinity that I lacked. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to realize how limiting this way of thinking is. I’ve stopped worrying about the whole question of masculinity. I’ve also made a conscious decision to go against type. The process is ongoing but so far the results have been pleasantly surprising.

 

Something I have noticed in myself recently, is that I'm going more by how a guy makes me feel, rather than if he conforms to a type. I used to pass on guys that I actually found interesting because they weren't the type I liked. Going by how he makes me feel has lead to some very satisfying experiences with unexpected partners.

[MikeyGMin]

And they typically realize that it isn't realistic to hold out for their fantasy type.

 

And that really is the crux of it, isn't it? I'm not sure what the answer is, but people have to take more responsibility for the choices they make that lead to unhappiness and loneliness. You can choose not to exclusively follow some narrow version of your ideal and perfect man. Or you can choose to limit yourself to that ideal. Barring a true mental health issue, the choice shouldn't be that difficult.

 

I don't spend a lot of time agonizing over what turns me on versus the real world. I really get turned on by men who are taller than me, but the hottest guy in my life right now is slightly shorter than me and both of my partners were shorter than me. It's the sum of the whole.

 

I don't consider myself some super well-adjusted picture of mental health perfection, so it's hard for me to understand how people get locked in to the point where it is causing them such grief.

[Rudynate]

I really get turned on by men who are taller than me, but the hottest guy in my life right now is slightly shorter than me and both of my partners were shorter than me.

 

My attraction to tall men was something that I gradually realized about myself, and which I was a little surprised to realize. It wasn't something that I saw in the sexual marketplace and decided that I had to have. I started to notice that I tended to date tall men, and that I liked the way I felt around them. One day, nearly twenty-five years ago, a tall handsome guy started chatting me up in the gym, we went on a date a few days later and I realized he was the perfect man for me and he still is.

[+ Truereview]

Upon re-reading what I posted, I admit that it could have been worded much better. Blame it on insomnia

I thought it was written beautifully! I get a little tingle up here and down there by posts that make think. Disclaimer: I'm referring to my brain and my heart