U.S. POPULATION MIGRATIONS

[+ sync]

Yesterday I heard some rather startling statistics (MSNBC) that there is/has been a rather large population of U.S. families that have migrated into Canada and Europe, and many more are underway, and many more are on social media getting migration information.

Without any political commentary, I am curious if anyone here has seen/heard anything supportive or contrary regarding data showing U.S. families fleeing the country.

[+ nycman]

[sarcasm on]

Yes, I’ve heard the same thing.

Evidently they’re fleeing the country in anticipation of the inevitable backlash and coming destruction of the new Trump-topia, 4years from now. 

[sarcasm off]

Fake news. No one’s going anywhere. 

[+ sync]

1 hour ago, nycman said:

[sarcasm on]

Yes, I’ve heard the same thing.

Evidently they’re fleeing the country in anticipation of the inevitable backlash and coming destruction of the new Trump-topia, 4years from now. 

[sarcasm off]

Fake news. No one’s going anywhere. 

Noted.

[Luv2play]

1 hour ago, nycman said:

[sarcasm on]

Yes, I’ve heard the same thing.

Evidently they’re fleeing the country in anticipation of the inevitable backlash and coming destruction of the new Trump-topia, 4years from now. 

[sarcasm off]

Fake news. No one’s going anywhere. 

How would you know? 

[marylander1940]

37 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

How would you know? 

@nycman is infallible, he's also lucky to live in a big city where gay men will be ok but transgenders:

 

2 hours ago, sync said:

Yesterday I heard some rather startling statistics (MSNBC) that there is/has been a rather large population of U.S. families that have migrated into Canada and Europe, and many more are underway, and many more are on social media getting migration information.

Without any political commentary, I am curious if anyone here has seen/heard anything supportive or contrary regarding data showing U.S. families fleeing the country.

The same was said in 2004 and 2012 but few Americans have the "cojones" to move out of the country, work hard, start from zero, learn another language, etc. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2024 by marylander1940

[mike carey]

Remember, the question here was Are people actually leaving not are they talking about it.

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, mike carey said:

Remember, the question here was Are people actually leaving not are they talking about it.

I read an article today that Ellen Degenerate and her (hot)wife Portia diRossi have already "moved" to England and have their California mansion up for sale...obviously I can't confirm whether this is true of false.

I can only confirm that it's silly.

[BSR]

On 11/20/2024 at 7:14 AM, sync said:

Yesterday I heard some rather startling statistics (MSNBC) that there is/has been a rather large population of U.S. families that have migrated into Canada and Europe, and many more are underway, and many more are on social media getting migration information.

Without any political commentary, I am curious if anyone here has seen/heard anything supportive or contrary regarding data showing U.S. families fleeing the country.

I think Americans have been "fleeing" the US for a while now.  I read about a (supposed) spike 10-15 years ago.

Americans choose to live abroad for many reasons, sometimes political, often something else.  I've read a lot of accounts by American expats in Spain because I was considering the move myself.  Most cite lifestyle and culture as their motivation, very rarely politics.

I think the Internet and social media facilitate moving abroad because so many more resources are available to anyone considering it.  The big move is less daunting when you can connect with the expat community in your destination and talk to people who have done it.

[Luv2play]

I just read an interview that Barry Sonnenfeld, the Hollywood director, gave to the CBC about his move to Vancouver from Los Angeles back in 2016. The amusing part was a reason he gave for moving. 
Apparently as a director of a TV ad he had fired Donald Trump in 2009 when Trump played difficult in the filming.

 Sonnenfeld had assembled a cast of famous people and when Trump objected to the way he was being filmed (from his bad side) Sonnenfeld switched to film Martha Stewart instead of Donald. 
Donald then said, “ok you can shoot me from my bad side” and Sonnenfeld responded. “You can go home Donald. We’ve moved on.”

[+ PhileasFogg]

Yes, Ellen and Portia are heading to England.  Can’t wait for Whoopi, Joy, and Sunny to follow. 
 

Beyond that, nada.  

[Luv2play]

1 minute ago, PhileasFogg said:

Yes, Ellen and Portia are heading to England.  Can’t wait for Whoopi, Joy, and Sunny to follow. 
 

Beyond that, nada.  

A bit premature to say that. 

[mike carey]

Departure cards that everyone has to complete when leaving Australia ask whether you are a resident or visitor, and whether you're departing temporarily (and for how long) or permanently. Similar questions are asked on arrival. I don't think US border formalities include such data collection, so the only way anyone will have any idea if moving is a trend will come from foreign statistics of Americans becoming semi-permanent or permanent residents. Anecdotes about famous people (who in reality can live almost anywhere they want, and for a short or long time) departing, or of the bloke in your street who moved to Ireland or Singapore will be just that. Interesting perhaps, but they won't give you an idea of whether there has been a material change in the numbers of Americans choosing to leave.

And serious numbers of departures would be prompted by new lived realities for those people, not the atmospherics of what one or other party has 'promised'.

[+ PhileasFogg]

8 hours ago, mike carey said:

Departure cards that everyone has to complete when leaving Australia ask whether you are a resident or visitor, and whether you're departing temporarily (and for how long) or permanently. Similar questions are asked on arrival. I don't think US border formalities include such data collection, so the only way anyone will have any idea if moving is a trend will come from foreign statistics of Americans becoming semi-permanent or permanent residents. Anecdotes about famous people (who in reality can live almost anywhere they want, and for a short or long time) departing, or of the bloke in your street who moved to Ireland or Singapore will be just that. Interesting perhaps, but they won't give you an idea of whether there has been a material change in the numbers of Americans choosing to leave.

And serious numbers of departures would be prompted by new lived realities for those people, not the atmospherics of what one or other party has 'promised'.

And there’s then the question of materiality.  I just don’t see it happening.  If so, it would have happened eight years ago (as promised by some nonresponsive blowhards back then).  I will admit having considered it and have done some early stage research into Belize and Costa Rica.  But my motivation isn’t politics.  However, I doubt I will ever do it as long as my grandchildren are young.

[+ Italiano]

Me and my spouse  have dual citizenship. Another 3/4 years (during dark times, alas...) working here, and we'll definitely sell everything here and move to a beautiful house in the Tuscan hills.

Honestly, I can't wait.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Italiano

[pubic_assistance]

The only problems that would drive me from US soil are increasing taxation combined with a weak dollar. So...the past four years definitely got me thinking of options. The next four is now a crap-shoot. The "powers-that-be" at the top of the econimic ladder are driving down our quality of life issues, with a float-to-the-top economy so they can buy another private jet . Bureaucrats only facilitate the problems, they never cure it...just make promises.

Edited November 22, 2024 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[+ sync]

4 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

The only problems that would drive me from US soil are increasing taxation combined with a weak dollar. So...the past four years definitely got me thinking of options. The next four is now a crap-shoot. The "powers-that-be" at the top of the econimic ladder are driving down our quality of life issues, with a float-to-the-top economy so they can buy another private jet . Bureaucrats only facilitate the problems, they never cure it...just make promises.

I suspect the implementation of the promised tariffs on imports will have many of your fellow citizens sharing your thinking.

[pubic_assistance]

8 hours ago, sync said:

I suspect the implementation of the promised tariffs on imports will have many of your fellow citizens sharing your thinking.

I don't oppose limiting the flood of foreign goods....as long as it keeps a few more people employed.

The whole system has gone to hell in the last 30 years. I don't see how anyone's saving it.

[marylander1940]

On 11/21/2024 at 7:41 PM, BSR said:

I think Americans have been "fleeing" the US for a while now.  I read about a (supposed) spike 10-15 years ago.

Americans choose to live abroad for many reasons, sometimes political, often something else.  I've read a lot of accounts by American expats in Spain because I was considering the move myself.  Most cite lifestyle and culture as their motivation, very rarely politics.

I think the Internet and social media facilitate moving abroad because so many more resources are available to anyone considering it.  The big move is less daunting when you can connect with the expat community in your destination and talk to people who have done it.

"Expats" because the word immigrant doesn't apply to Americans and other Western folks at least according to some. I always make sure to use in reference to Americans no matter how long or short they've been abroad.

I wonder if there's an exception based on background,  looks, body type, etc 

Edited November 23, 2024 by marylander1940

[caramelsub]

8 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

"Expats" because the word immigrant doesn't apply to Americans and other Western folks at least according to some. I always make sure to use in reference to Americans no matter how long or short they've been abroad.

I wonder if there's an exception based on background,  looks, body type, etc 

Interesting Marylander. I never thought of it that way. I googled expat vs immigrant and here were my findings-

“Expat-

A person who lives outside their native country, usually for a limited period of time, and may or may not intend to return. Expats are often described as educated, rich professionals working abroad. They may choose to live in another country for reasons beyond the economic. 

Immigrant-

A person who moves to a new country with the intention of settling there permanently. Immigrants usually move to better their economic status.”

 I guess one could say back in the day people from Ireland, Germany, Italy, etc who came to America were immigrants. Today I’d be hard pressed to find someone from a European or other Western country who comes to America, call themselves an “immigrant”. More likely they’d prefer to refer to themselves as an expatriate. Or simply say they moved here versus they immigrated here.

Edited November 23, 2024 by caramelsub

[+ PhileasFogg]

10 minutes ago, caramelsub said:

Interesting Marylander. I never thought of it that way. I googled expat vs immigrant and here were my findings-

“Expat-

A person who lives outside their native country, usually for a limited period of time, and may or may not intend to return. Expats are often described as educated, rich professionals working abroad. They may choose to live in another country for reasons beyond the economic. 

Immigrant-

A person who moves to a new country with the intention of settling there permanently. Immigrants usually move to better their economic status.”

 I guess one could say back in the day people from Ireland, Germany, Italy, etc who came to America were immigrants. Today I’d be hard pressed to find someone from a European country who comes to America, call themselves an “immigrant”. More likely they’d prefer to refer to themselves as an expatriate. Or simply say they moved here versus they immigrated here.

Isn’t the primary distinguishing factor permanence?

[caramelsub]

11 minutes ago, PhileasFogg said:

Isn’t the primary distinguishing factor permanence?

I think the “seeking to better their economic status” is a contributing factor as well.

[+ PhileasFogg]

1 hour ago, caramelsub said:

I think the “seeking to better their economic status” is a contributing factor as well.

In my view, that speaks to "motivation."   But I'm referring to the difference between an immigrant and an expat.     

My father came here - legally - at age 15 with the intent of never returning to Italy.  That's an immigrant.   It took nine years and the entire family "immigrated"

If he'd come on a study visa or a professional engagement, I'd suggest he was an expat.

[+ José Soplanucas]

25 minutes ago, PhileasFogg said:

In my view, that speaks to "motivation."   But I'm referring to the difference between an immigrant and an expat.     

My father came here - legally - at age 15 with the intent of never returning to Italy.  That's an immigrant.   It took nine years and the entire family "immigrated"

If he'd come on a study visa or a professional engagement, I'd suggest he was an expat.

I tend to agree. Even with political refugees, whether I would consider them expats or immigrants would depend on their intentions to move temporarily or permanently to another country.

 

[+ sync]

Tomb it may concern (see what I did there?):  I never intended for my population migration inquiry to ignite an immigrant/expat firestorm.   

[marylander1940]

54 minutes ago, sync said:

Tomb it may concern (see what I did there?):  I never intended for my population migration inquiry to ignite an immigrant/expat firestorm.   

No firestorm.  Some on here are just wonder if Americans who will get out of the country because of the new circumstance will call themselves migrants or expats and also how others will call them. 

1 hour ago, José Soplanucas said:

I tend to agree. Even with political refugees, whether I would consider them expats or immigrants would depend on their intentions to move temporarily or permanently to another country.

 

If that's the case 4 years out of country might not be enough for some to think of themselves as immigrants/migrants. 

4 hours ago, caramelsub said:

I think the “seeking to better their economic status” is a contributing factor as well.

Exactly, that's why so many folks would like to live here instead of countries like Cuba, etc.