Maybe as a client I should ask for a deposit (half-joking)

[viewing ownly]

This past weekend, one of my favorite desired masseurs was visiting the West Coast. I was mulling over making it an all-day affair to drive to see him, since this guy doesn't travel hardly ever. My decision was increased to go when he dropped his donation, since he wanted to increase his likelihood of booking clients in a city he hadn't done massage in. 

Ultimately, I didn't want to fight the Holiday crowds on the 1 lane each way highway to get there - I'm a Sunday driver. I opted instead to see a handsome guy closer to home this week. Suddenly, my appointment had to be cancelled - not rescheduled, but cancelled on his end. Now I'm understandably furious, as I could've had a terrific time with the traveling guy this past weekend, even if it was mediocre, as just seeing him would've been brownie points (and I would've kept my fawning fandom in check).

I read aggravating stories of masseurs who experience far too many flakes with zero respect for their time, and those far too frequent client-flaking assholes are the reasons that deposit requirements are put into place. While I do at least respect that this appointment of mine was cancelled slightly beyond that same day, I'm getting really fed up with "Onlyfans bait" people putting up ads that they pay for (or have a third party pay for?) with zero intention of actually seeing clients face to face. 

[viewing ownly]

To clarify ahead of time (I really should proofread before hitting send), by dropping his donation, I meant lowering the amount, not making it free. 

[Muscleking]

I’ve been to several masseurs whom asked for a deposit and for the ones I have sent deposit I’ve never had a last minute cancellation thankfully.. I did however book with a guy once who didn’t ask for deposit and he hours before the appt he cancelled I was pissed because I planned my hole day around meeting him in between work meetings so needless to say I was left without massage and extremely horny. I now mostly stick to the same guy(s) cause I know they will respect my time just as I respect theirs 

[TallMuscl37]

So…I’m just going to clarify this on my end:

My deposit policy isn’t just for the sake of “not being flaked on”. If that was the case, I would charge everybody a deposit from hookup apps, to friends, and everything else.

A deposit for me is because I’m spending money to see clients; whether that be booking rooms or putting fuel and effort to commute someplace. So it’s more than just “wishful thinking”, it’s real funds out of my pocket, no wait: funds from a PREVIOUS booking. Think about it (using basic elementary math here, not verbatim) so and so Escort makes $500 from appointments. Then gets another appointment request say, the next day at 5 p.m. after checkout time. The provider must then pay an extra night for the booking out of his $500. That means spending a $100 in confidence client shows up. If client fails to show up: the actual cost is hypothetically; $300/hr PLUS $100 hotel= $400. And let’s not include cost of another client elsewhere that could have been booked at the same time: Another $300. So now a total loss of $700. All because failure to collect deposit, or client’s unwillingness to send one. 
 

Thats hypothetical math, but the loss could be even greater, or less depending on rates and hotel cost. But often times more. Also you said:

I opted instead to see a handsome guy closer to home this week. Suddenly, my appointment had to be cancelled - not rescheduled, but cancelled on his end. Now I'm understandably furious, as I could've had a terrific time with the traveling guy this past weekend

 

 

In this case unfortunately, that was a decision you had to live with. In this biz and in general gay sex and travel in general, you can’t always “opt out” for the easiest option. For me, staying closer to home is always more of a loss, versus driving elsewhere. Over Memorial weekend, I left home with only $125 to budget for a 2 day vacation (partly thanks to a client who flaked on our appointment). Accommodations and entertainment were covered by family, but by the time I got gas, nick nacks, food here and there: that’s nothing.
 

Fortunately, it paid off because I ended up booking 2 clients plus a hookup app guy who gave me a a few bucks 💵 (he was hot and this was a small rural town area…and I had no clients up until that point. Was waking up with 🍆 each morning lol).

So you can’t really fault the flaky guy for the disappointment considering you did choose him, but don’t beat yourself up either. For all you know, you may have avoided an accident or a waste of time. Sometimes the only way to bounce back, is to just stay in the game. Find someone else. At least the guy did cancel before you made your way. But the difference is: many clients are liable to cancel when you’ve done all the above: and are on the way to their location. 
 

But paying a client a deposit just isn’t sensible. I know you want to be facetious but, it’s not at all feasible. That’s like a drive thru saying: “we’ll pay you while you wait for your food”. Nah 👎🏾 

Edited May 31, 2024 by Jarrod_Uncut

[+ KensingtonHomo]

13 hours ago, Muscleking said:

I’ve been to several masseurs whom asked for a deposit and for the ones I have sent deposit I’ve never had a last minute cancellation thankfully.. I did however book with a guy once who didn’t ask for deposit and he hours before the appt he cancelled I was pissed because I planned my hole day around meeting him in between work meetings so needless to say I was left without massage and extremely horny. I now mostly stick to the same guy(s) cause I know they will respect my time just as I respect theirs 

This is why I'm not put off by reasonable deposits (let's say $25-$50). Yes, it's a commitment to the provider but it's also them committing to the appointment. And I've never had one of them cancel. 

[Muscleking]

2 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

This is why I'm not put off by reasonable deposits (let's say $25-$50). Yes, it's a commitment to the provider but it's also them committing to the appointment. And I've never had one of them cancel. 

Same here I think it’s totally acceptable for us both to agree and for the provider to know I’m serious about the appt and my time also. 

[+ JamesB]

My issue with deposits is that they only benefit the provider, offering no protection to the client. Deposits place all the risk on the client, creating an undesirable unilateral condition.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 hour ago, JamesB said:

My issue with deposits is that they only benefit the provider, offering no protection to the client. Deposits place all the risk on the client, creating an undesirable unilateral condition.

That's not true. We all engage with other professionals who require a deposit to book an appointment or a credit card to charge you a cancellation fee. Sure, the illicit nature of the enterprise doesn't provide recourse that others would, but if we're talking about a small deposit of $25, that is reasonable. Also, in my experience, that deposit is only required for the first appointment. Once a provider realizes you're legit, they don't ask again. 

[+ JamesB]

11 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

That's not true. We all engage with other professionals who require a deposit to book an appointment or a credit card to charge you a cancellation fee. Sure, the illicit nature of the enterprise doesn't provide recourse that others would, but if we're talking about a small deposit of $25, that is reasonable. Also, in my experience, that deposit is only required for the first appointment. Once a provider realizes you're legit, they don't ask again. 

I’m not sure exactly what you find not to be true in my statement, but regardless, as long as the vast majority of providers don't ask for a deposit, I choose not to pay one.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

3 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I’m not sure exactly what you find not to be true in my statement

That they only benefit the provider. If someone requests a deposit to hold an appointment for you, the benefit to you is that your appointment is secured. 

[+ JamesB]

19 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

That they only benefit the provider. If someone requests a deposit to hold an appointment for you, the benefit to you is that your appointment is secured. 

Of course, it only benefits the provider. There's no difference between an appointment made with a provider who requires a deposit and one with a provider who doesn't. Unless you truly believe that a provider who might flake on you will change their behavior just because you paid a deposit.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

3 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Of course, it only benefits the provider. There's no difference between an appointment made with a provider who requires a deposit and one with a provider who doesn't. Unless you truly believe that a provider who might flake on you will change their behavior just because you paid a deposit.

Honestly, you sound flakey. I have never had a provider to whom I made a deposit flake on me. I haven't been flaked on more than a handful of times. 

[+ JamesB]

6 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Honestly, you sound flakey. I have never had a provider to whom I made a deposit flake on me. I haven't been flaked on more than a handful of times. 

Really? Your argument is that “I sound flaky”?
Have a great day.

Edited May 31, 2024 by JamesB

[+ KensingtonHomo]

50 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Really? Your argument is that “I sound flaky”?
Have a great day.

No, my argument was that deposits benefit more than just the provider. I'm sure you make deposits or give your credit card to reserve all kinds of things. And you do so because the professional or vendor will only reserve your booking with a deposit. 

[+ DrownedBoy]

1 hour ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I have never had a provider to whom I made a deposit flake on me.

This is what's known in statistics as an "outlier. "

Edited May 31, 2024 by DrownedBoy

[pubic_assistance]

7 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I'm not put off by reasonable deposits (let's say $25-$50). Yes, it's a commitment to the provider but it's also them committing to the appointment. And I've never had one of them cancel

There's a lot of guys on Grindr who claim to offer massage+fun meets and "only" require a small deposit.

Most of these are scams to get your credit card information.

Half the time it's obvious because they forget they're trolling in the US and they quote in Euros

[TallMuscl37]

11 hours ago, JamesB said:

My issue with deposits is that they only benefit the provider, offering no protection to the client. Deposits place all the risk on the client, creating an undesirable unilateral condition.

Provider opinion here: not necessarily. Many clients want me to host. Many times however, I’m only outcall. I have a car, and all the essentials, but it’s the venue that needs to be arranged. By sending a deposit, it ensures I can afford getting that hotel. And a larger deposit (which I recommend for longer sessions) ensures the place I get is not just a bed, but a place with luxury accommodations. 
 

Without a deposit, there are times I just won’t host. And that’s regardless of whether I have my own place or not. Like over the long weekend, my family rented a house out by the lake. I could not host there, but could gladly do outcalls. However, one person refused to do deposit (he also has a bad rep for being a flake based on research). So I was like fuck it, I won’t go. Why would I leave my comfortable Lake house to go see him, without a deposit? That’s foolish. Look at the drive I would have had to do:

 

I wasn’t about to be driving all thru the woods at nighttime to meet this person, without a deposit (that’s not a house address, merely an apartment which is even MORE reason to not go without deposit.) Imagine I go all that distance, and he flakes? I have to then drive all the way back. 

6 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

There's a lot of guys on Grindr who claim to offer massage+fun meets and "only" require a small deposit.

Most of these are scams to get your credit card information.

Half the time it's obvious because they forget they're trolling in the US and they quote in Euros

Key word: Grindr. As in, not a real paid professional site. 

Edited June 1, 2024 by Jarrod_Uncut

[jmichaeliii]

1 hour ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Provider opinion here: not necessarily. Many clients want me to host. Many times however, I’m only outcall. I have a car, and all the essentials, but it’s the venue that needs to be arranged. By sending a deposit, it ensures I can afford getting that hotel. And a larger deposit (which I recommend for longer sessions) ensures the place I get is not just a bed, but a place with luxury accommodations. 
 

Without a deposit, there are times I just won’t host. And that’s regardless of whether I have my own place or not. Like over the long weekend, my family rented a house out by the lake. I could not host there, but could gladly do outcalls. However, one person refused to do deposit (he also has a bad rep for being a flake based on research). So I was like fuck it, I won’t go. Why would I leave my comfortable Lake house to go see him, without a deposit? That’s foolish. Look at the drive I would have had to do:

 

I wasn’t about to be driving all thru the woods at nighttime to meet this person, without a deposit (that’s not a house address, merely an apartment which is even MORE reason to not go without deposit.) Imagine I go all that distance, and he flakes? I have to then drive all the way back. 

Key word: Grindr. As in, not a real paid professional site. 

I have a question regarding the hotel and an outcall.  When I ask my providers to outcall (which is almost always) I pay the hotel and never expect a contribution from them.  Is this how it normally works?  I just assume it because they travel 1.5 hours to see me (Philly to Allentown PA).  The only time I would expect the provider to pay hotel is if they are traveling into town on their own.

[TallMuscl37]

2 hours ago, jmichaeliii said:

I have a question regarding the hotel and an outcall.  When I ask my providers to outcall (which is almost always) I pay the hotel and never expect a contribution from them.  Is this how it normally works?  I just assume it because they travel 1.5 hours to see me (Philly to Allentown PA).  The only time I would expect the provider to pay hotel is if they are traveling into town on their own.

Nope. Because a lot of times clients who want in-call to come to us don’t always pay for the hotel. They either A) assume we already have it figured out or B) expect it to be included in the rate. 
 

Outcalls are different, assuming the client is booking the room or has a place ahead. 
 

Even if I’m traveling to a town on my own, no guarantee I’ll have a hotel to host. Idk if people don’t think about it but: an escort can still travel to a city and not book a hotel. They could be seeing friends, family, just driving thru by car etc.

However in my case, unless I know someone in the town I usually try to book a room to host out of. However, I can’t do it if I have no appointments. With the price of hotels, it’s too big a gamble.

[jmichaeliii]

7 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Nope. Because a lot of times clients who want in-call to come to us don’t always pay for the hotel. They either A) assume we already have it figured out or B) expect it to be included in the rate. 
 

Outcalls are different, assuming the client is booking the room or has a place ahead. 
 

Even if I’m traveling to a town on my own, no guarantee I’ll have a hotel to host. Idk if people don’t think about it but: an escort can still travel to a city and not book a hotel. They could be seeing friends, family, just driving thru by car etc.

However in my case, unless I know someone in the town I usually try to book a room to host out of. However, I can’t do it if I have no appointments. With the price of hotels, it’s too big a gamble.

Makes sense.  I have always operated under the assumption that if I ask the provider to travel to me and they are amenable to that,  I am covering the venue for the session whether it's a hotel or my home.

[+ Jamie21]

28 minutes ago, jmichaeliii said:

Makes sense.  I have always operated under the assumption that if I ask the provider to travel to me and they are amenable to that,  I am covering the venue for the session whether it's a hotel or my home.

I agree with you on that! For most providers ‘in call’ means you the client are going to his normal place of work which he is responsible for. His rate will be all inclusive. ‘Out call’ will be the escort or masseur is visiting you at your place which you are responsible for. Usually that’s your hotel where you are staying or your home. The provider will have an out call rate which is usually more than their in call rate because of the additional travel time and cost for them. 

In none of these scenarios does the cost of providing accommodation arise directly. It’s assumed as a given that whoever is hosting is covering the cost.

When the cost of accommodation does arise is when neither party to the arrangements has a venue to host, which means someone has to book a hotel and take a risk with the cost of that if the other party subsequently flakes. This model is operated by providers who travel. I won’t comment on its practicality because I don’t operate like that. If I get a client who doesn’t want to visit me for an in call and who can’t or won’t host for an out call then the meeting isn’t happening. 

Edited June 1, 2024 by Jamie21

[+ APPLE1]

I think the key point of the risk/benefit analysis of a deposit isn't the benefit part, it's the risk part.

All of the RISK is on the client. If I give my CC to secure a hotel, or most any business reservation, and my reservation is canceled by the business, it's almost 100% that I am getting my money back.

Regardless if it's $5 or $100 that I pay a provider for a deposit, if the provider cancels, I feel like my chances of getting that money back are nowhere close to 100%.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

15 hours ago, DrownedBoy said:

This is what's known in statistics as an "outlier. "

We’d have to do a large scale survey of clients to assess whether my experience is an outlier.