SirBillybob Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said: Good point. I wonder if @newdadis looking for generically European men in an atmosphere similar to Bangkok, or if he's looking for Asian men without having to travel to Asia. And to be picky, ‘most similar to’, or ‘closest’? My guess, in spite of my silly response, is the range, breadth and accessibility of trade. I have had equal luck with ad-based trade in Madrid (following Adan’s demise) and Barcelona (supplemental to Thermas). I am reluctant to compare the two cities qualitatively due to magical visits elsewhere in the country, obviously not sexually focused. However, if push came to shove I think I would prefer Madrid as a place to live. Edited February 15 by SirBillybob newdad and + Vegas_Millennial 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zippo5 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Both cities are lovely. Let’s just all get along. SirBillybob, Marc in Calif, thomas and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Comparing Barcelona to Madrid in terms of numbers of providers is a silly and pointless task. Barcelona has a population of 1.7 million. Its metro area has a population of 5.7 million. Madrid has a population of 3.4 million and a metro area of 6.9 million. Traveling providers visit each city frequently. Are there statistics about the numbers of providers in the two largest Spanish cities, especially compared to an international destination like Bangkok -- which itself has a metro area population of more than 11 million? SirBillybob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousByNature Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Which of the two Spanish cities has the best Pad Thai? Maybe that will tip the scales in favour of one city over the other, and draw the bickering to a close? + Vegas_Millennial, newdad, SirBillybob and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oclatin92xxx Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/15/2024 at 4:44 PM, CuriousByNature said: Which of the two Spanish cities has the best Pad Thai? Maybe that will tip the scales in favour of one city over the other, and draw the bickering to a close? They both have shitty pad thai (Asian food sucks in most of Europe). But if I would have to pick, then Madrid would be the best. This means that the fucky fucky overall is good in both cities. pubic_assistance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/15/2024 at 6:58 PM, Marc in Calif said: Barcelona has a population of 1.7 million. Its metro area has a population of 5.7 million. Madrid has a population of 3.4 million and a metro area of 6.9 million. Traveling providers visit each city frequently LOL - there’s a big difference between analyzing statistics & actually experiencing both cities in person to see the differences. Barcelona is a beautiful city w a nice climate & many notable tourist sites - however because of its relatively small city population and tight geography, the millions of tourists & cruise ship passengers make it quite dreadful. Outside of visiting Spaniards, Americans are the dominant tourists there making up 10% of the total. So, yes - if your idea of a good time is with hordes or tourists and being surrounded by very loud Americans at every turn, then Barcelona is for you. Similar to other small European cities like Amsterdam, Venice & Florence - Barcelona has been completely ruined by over-tourism that is all but impossible to unwind. There are many efforts in progress to restrict tourism in Barcelona and that has morphed into a distinct vibe in some sections that tourists are not welcome. It’s common to see graffiti throughout the city “Tourists Go Home” and similar. The reason for the public backlash is a housing shortage due to conversions to tourist apartments and some parts of the city are so inundated with tourists that locals no longer have easy access to everyday goods & services that now cater to tourists. Btw - vast majority of relocated or visiting providers in Spain are from South America, Central America & Caribbean. They overwhelmingly prefer Madrid because it’s just easier for them since Spanish is spoken everywhere and it’s the de facto capital of the Spanish speaking world. In Barcelona - most people can speak Spanish, but whether or not they will is entirely another question. I’ve watched many situations in BCN where whomever refuses to speak Spanish for whatever reason. The Catalan independence movement along with a separate Catalan identity & language is alive and well, manifesting in various ways. Again - something that you need to see and experience in person to see how it really works. If someone has never been to BCN - it can still be worthwhile; just never in the summer months and never in the Old City. Much better to stay in Eixample or if you want a more local experience then, Sarria - Sant Gervasi As for Sitges - it can be nice for a couple of days only, but there are much better options in Spain for a beach vacation. funic and newdad 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 6 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: Again - something that you need to see and experience in person to see how it really works. If someone has never been to BCN - it can still be worthwhile; just never in the summer months and never in the Old City. Much better to stay in Eixample or if you want a more local experience then, Sarria - Sant Gervasi. You just wrote 400 words saying absolutely nothing new. My apartment is in Poblenou, and I usually spend a total of about six months there each year. So I'm in a very normal, small Catalonian neighborhood with nary an American (or practically any other) tourist in sight. I'm on the L4 metro line so I can quickly get to my concert subscriptions at both El Palau and L'Auditori, as well as to my work and study activities. If you prefer the very trendy and more upscale Eixample and Sant Gervasi sections of the city, then that's where you belong (with all the other tourists). Yes, I have Catalonian flags on my balconies, as do most of my neighbors. Please don't try to lecture me on the independence movement. I've spent all four seasons in Barcelona. If you can't stand the heat, you're much better off staying away. And Madrid is even hotter. And there are more than enough providers in BCN, both locals and travelers, to satisfy one's urges. Did you find those statistics about numbers of providers available in BCN and Madrid at any given time? Edited February 26 by Marc in Calif marylander1940 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Barcelona is unique in Spain as it’s well known they have the most virulent anti-foreigner/anti-tourist sentiments for all the reasons previously discussed here. It’s so well documented from dozens of sources that it’s not even a question. That said - I’m sure the neighbors appreciate the foreigner who has bought a part-time apartment in Barcelona, contributing to their housing shortage & then wades into the very delicate subject that is Spanish/Catalan politics. such poor behavior as a guest in their country. why am I not surprised ? the height of arrogance and just another bad tourist Edited February 26 by SouthOfTheBorder newdad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 19 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: Barcelona is unique in Spain as it’s well known they have the most virulent anti-foreigner/anti-tourist sentiments for all the reasons previously discussed here. It’s so well documented from dozens of sources that it’s not even a question. That said - I’m sure the neighbors appreciate the foreigner who has bought a part-time apartment in Barcelona, contributing to their housing shortage & then wades into the very delicate subject that is Spanish/Catalan politics. I think you're the tourist in Barcelona -- preferring to stay in the ultimate gayborhood that you recommend. 😇 I'm am active member of the owners association in my building. My neighbors have known me for a long time, and I attend meetings when I'm there. The apartment is occupied by family members when I'm not there. And some of my fellow owners are indeed foreigners: from Morocco and Greece. I used to think that I'd buy property in Malaysia or Thailand. I chose Spain because of the quality of life -- for me. Bangkok real estate is reasonably priced, and the numbers of spas and independent providers are amazing. But I realized some years ago that tropical living is no longer for me. I did my time living in SEA in the 1970s and 1980s, and I guess my body simply adjusted more easily when I was younger. Edited February 26 by Marc in Calif marylander1940 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylander1940 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 37 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: Barcelona is unique in Spain as it’s well known they have the most virulent anti-foreigner/anti-tourist sentiments for all the reasons previously discussed here. It’s so well documented from dozens of sources that it’s not even a question. That said - I’m sure the neighbors appreciate the foreigner who has bought a part-time apartment in Barcelona, contributing to their housing shortage & then wades into the very delicate subject that is Spanish/Catalan politics. such poor behavior as a guest in their country. why am I not surprised ? the height of arrogance and just another bad tourist Is buying property in another city, paying taxes, fees, services, water, electricity, groceries, etc. a bad thing? Many countries would be happy to have foreigners investing in them. I know rising home ownership prices are good for those who own, including many Spaniards who think about retiring, sell their houses and move a cheaper part of their country. pubic_assistance and Marc in Calif 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newdad Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 (edited) What time of the year is it good to visit BCN? EDIT: both to experience the city and to experience Thermas? Edited February 26 by newdad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 49 minutes ago, marylander1940 said: Is buying property in another city, paying taxes, fees, services, water, electricity, groceries, etc. a bad thing? it depends where & the behavior of the tourist. In Barcelona - given the sentiments of the locals, probably not a great place for a foreigner to buy. The influx of part-time residents and over-tourism are inextricably linked to the decline in quality of life in the city. Btw - discussing politics in Spain is considered rude & looked down upon - even worse when foreigners decide to weigh-in. Of course, it’s a very American thing to think that they somehow understand it well enough to have an opinion. An American flying a Catalan flag is beyond ridiculous. I can assure you all the Catalan & Spanish people are snickering & mocking it, not so privately either. It used to be a really lovely city, so it’s quite sad what it has become and the inevitable backlash by the local people. The over-tourism issue isn’t new, but seems to have become exponentially worse now w the Instagram hordes, influencers & digital nomads that have taken over. There’s very little they can do to stop or change what’s happened. it’s a victim of its own success - unfortunately you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. This is a well known problem in Europe & several other cities with similar problems. There are literally dozens of articles and research papers doing deep analysis on Barcelona & over-tourism, with all the attendant problems and declining quality of life. Many of the studies conducted the the city of Barcelona and local universities to combat the problems. Edited February 26 by SouthOfTheBorder newdad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Lucky Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: An American flying a Catalan flag is beyond ridiculous. I can assure you all the Catalan & Spanish people are snickering & mocking it, not so privately either. How can you make that assurance? Have you talked to all of them? marylander1940 and Marc in Calif 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Vegas_Millennial Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: Barcelona is unique in Spain as it’s well known they have the most virulent anti-foreigner/anti-tourist sentiments for all the reasons previously discussed here. It’s so well documented from dozens of sources that it’s not even a question. That said - I’m sure the neighbors appreciate the foreigner who has bought a part-time apartment in Barcelona, contributing to their housing shortage & then wades into the very delicate subject that is Spanish/Catalan politics. such poor behavior as a guest in their country. why am I not surprised ? the height of arrogance and just another bad tourist Does this make Barcelona close to Bangkok or not? marylander1940 and + Axiom2001 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said: Does this make Barcelona close to Bangkok or not? they don’t seem to loathe tourists in Bangkok, so yes, that makes it different. Or, at least it’s not formally organized like in BCN. you might not pick-up on the anti-tourist/anti-foreigner undercurrent on one quick trip, you will notice with regular visits. just look for the very specific graffiti and attitude among service workers. as mentioned, the only thing that makes BCN a bit like BKK is Thermas. One public venue for paid sex - that’s it. https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2023/08/16/exclusive-brits-told-go-home-we-will-ps-in-your-beer-as-part-of-disturbing-new-anti-tourism-campaign-in-spain-launched-by-fed-up-locals/ Edited February 26 by SouthOfTheBorder newdad and Marc in Calif 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: it depends where & the behavior of the tourist. What do you consider yourself when you travel to Thailand and Spain? Have you established residency or citizenship in those places? Edited February 27 by Marc in Calif marylander1940 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: An American flying a Catalan flag is beyond ridiculous. I can assure you all the Catalan & Spanish people are snickering & mocking it, not so privately either. My apartment in a Catalan neighborhood of Barcelona is not exclusively the residence of an American. Do you think it's permissible for Catalan people to fly their own flag from their residence? Edited February 26 by Marc in Calif marylander1940 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBiDude Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Moderator warning….a couple of you have gotten into a back/forth that does NOT further the topic. Let’s get back to European city vs. Bangkok as the OP has posted. Let’s get back on topic NOW and avoid personal warnings and locking the thread. Thank you! newdad, pubic_assistance, marylander1940 and 3 others 1 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MscleLovr Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 FWIW my two cents - I find that it’s easy in Barcelona to meet nice young men (whether paid or free). As it happens, I live not far from Thermas - no judgement but I’ve not visited as I have a young partner - and it’s widely known about as a safe and reliable venue for paid male sex; the management is honest. (I know of a hot young American who visited, looking to hook up for free, and was outraged when he was expected to pay for sex. He complained to management and was promptly refunded his entrance fee). I don’t get into political debates about Catalan identity/independence even though my best friend is Catalan. I don’t see why any visitor would express an opinion on the matter. I’m told I speak Castilian at an advanced level and I have a smattering of useful Catalan phrases. Again, foreign visitors are not expected to speak Catalan. IMO London has a more diverse offering of male companions to Barcelona but their cost is much higher. I too have an apartment in Barcelona (in the Eixample district). I prefer Barcelona to Madrid as I find it easier to navigate socially and culturally. And in the Summer, I prefer to be by the beach and sea. I cannot relate to Bangkok as I’ve spent no time there. Marc in Calif, newdad and + Vegas_Millennial 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) I think any time a foreigner buys property in another country it requires extreme sensitively to local culture & customs, always remembering one is a guest in that country. engaging in complex political issues is the quickest way to show ignorance and disrespect. I’ve seen it many times & the Spaniards just roll their eyes. Similarly, in Thailand one would not venture into a discussion or critique of Thai politics. Thats not how a good guest behaves. and it’s about context. In a city of 11million+ like Bangkok, there doesn’t appear to be any organized movement that is anti-tourist/anti-foreigner. In a population that large, the tourists are visible but not enough of a concentrated presence to be considered problematic. That said, I’m sure the sex-tourists are considered a nuisance. In a city like BCN, it’s completely different where the tourists & foreigners have displaced the local people & destroyed their neighborhoods. Literally, like a daily plague of locusts. Thus, the constant media coverage about anti-tourist/anti-foreigner protests, graffiti and studies by the City to do something about the tourist problem. and it’s definitely much worse in some neighborhoods than others. the worst kind of foreigners are typically the ones who buy property, then stay just long enough to avoid becoming a tax-resident and then the allow others to use their property and making it more or less a transient hotel. Throughout Spain, it’s now common for buildings to restrict short-term use unless the property is licensed, but the typical work-around is to say it’s just family & friends, which actually makes little difference because it’s still transient. It’s definitely viewed more favorably if the apartment is solely used by the owner and even better if the owner becomes a resident for tax purposes - thus contributing to the place where using the services. In Spain, the Americans & British are thought to be the worst visitors/part-time residents as they’re typically entitled w condescending attitudes & know-it-alls while flaunting their relative wealth. Most tend to be very loud & obnoxious compared to Europeans, making them instantly identifiable. In Bangkok, there seems to healthy competition for the most obnoxious among Americans, Indians & Chinese….at least according to flight attendants who work the routes in/out of BKK and some local providers. The common thread - it’s always Americans Edited February 27 by SouthOfTheBorder newdad and Marc in Calif 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 57 minutes ago, MscleLovr said: I don’t get into political debates about Catalan identity/independence even though my best friend is Catalan. I don’t see why any visitor would express an opinion on the matter. correct - and given a foreigner has no chance of completely understanding the history in total & all the nuances, it would just sound stupid. 59 minutes ago, MscleLovr said: . (I know of a hot young American who visited, looking to hook up for free, and was outraged when he was expected to pay for sex. He complained to management and was promptly refunded his entrance fee). this is not surprising. It’s always the Americans Marc in Calif and DMICS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylander1940 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 35 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: correct - and given a foreigner has no chance of completely understanding the history in total & all the nuances, it would just sound stupid. this is not surprising. It’s always the Americans Unlike Europeans who always have an educated and enlighten opinion on other people's problems. 1 hour ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: In Spain, the Americans & British are thought to be the worst visitors/part-time residents as they’re typically entitled w condescending attitudes & know-it-alls while flaunting their relative wealth. Most tend to be very loud & obnoxious compared to Europeans, making them instantly identifiable. In Bangkok, there seems to healthy competition for the most obnoxious among Americans, Indians & Chinese….at least according to flight attendants who work the routes in/out of BKK and some local providers. The common thread - it’s always Americans Interesting... I thought the Germans were rude and the French and Italians demanding... Relative wealth? Loud and obnoxious? Why so much hatred of your own country? What do you to be as un-American as possible? + Lucky and Marc in Calif 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 6 hours ago, marylander1940 said: What do you to be as un-American as possible? Lol - because I recognize the difference in American culture vs European culture ……and just about anywhere else. In the United States, the individuals rights take precedence over the greater society in all cases. So, it’s completely expected that when Americans travel abroad their behavior is interpreted as selfish & inconsiderate of others because it’s all about them and their “experience”. Similarly, when Americans are taught from a very early age that everything in the US is the best without question - it breeds an attitude of superiority & condescension that doesn’t translate well to other cultures. Not all Americans of course, but frequent enough that there is a distinct stereotype of an American abroad that is unfortunately true if you observe them often enough outside the United States. In most of Europe, Japan & probably Thailand - the culture is much more based on society as a whole and consideration of others. In Japan - there’s silence on the subway because they don’t want to disturb others. There are no trash cans on the streets of Tokyo because they wouldn’t think to litter and offend others. In Spain - resources are devoted to things that benefit the greater society - such as pristine roads, beautiful airports & the most modern high speed rail system in Europe. While in the US, the infrastructure is dated & falling apart because nobody wants to pay taxes - they don’t see the benefit in things that benefit the greater society. I don’t hate the United States or Americans - but I’ve chosen to live far away from all the selfish & bad behavior as much as possible. When you have the opportunity to live outside the United States for extended periods of time & then return - you notice all the awful things that Americans see as totally normal & routine in everyday life. another thing that has changed the European (and others) perception of the US & Americans is social media, before social media, there was a carefully curated image of the US in film & television that often portrayed a glamorous image not anywhere close to reality. now, they can see the homeless people, poverty, gun violence and all the rest that is the true reality in everyday America. None of this is complicated when you understand the context - and step away for just a bit to consider how Americans & their behavior is seen by others. Edited February 27 by SouthOfTheBorder oclatin92xxx and Marc in Calif 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Axiom2001 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 21 hours ago, MikeBiDude said: Moderator warning….a couple of you have gotten into a back/forth that does NOT further the topic. Let’s get back to European city vs. Bangkok as the OP has posted. Let’s get back on topic NOW and avoid personal warnings and locking the thread. Thank you! I'm glad someone interceded, for yesterday I read the entire post prior to your monitoring and hoped that someone would put a halt to the topic's digression. I'd wanted to write; unfortunately I had difficulty formulating my ideas. So I shall try right now. I've traveled to both Barcelona and to Bangkok. Each city is uniquely different, for they are in two different continents and cultures, etc. I had wonderful and memorable experiences in both, but if I were to choose today, I'd opt for BCN, for this older gent would NOT look out of place while in public with an escort, or as in Bangkok, a guy "you've offed" from one of the clubs. I also prefer men/guys who are fairly endowed, something that is not the norm, for the most part, in Asian countries , and I AM NOT BEING JUDgmental or prejudiced. When I was in BCN on three different occasions, I DID NOT encounter too many Americans, and I went all over this fantastically beautiful city. While there I stayed in two different apartments and at an upscale (very modern) hotel in the Ex.....neighborhood/barrio. My recommendation would be to travel to Barcelona first; then for your next sojourn, go to Bangkok: The Land of Smiles. Try to make the better of your travels and experiences devoid of comparisons. oclatin92xxx, + Lucky and Marc in Calif 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylander1940 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, SouthOfTheBorder said: Lol - because I recognize the difference in American culture vs European culture ……and just about anywhere else. In the United States, the individuals rights take precedence over the greater society in all cases. So, it’s completely expected that when Americans travel abroad their behavior is interpreted as selfish & inconsiderate of others because it’s all about them and their “experience”. Similarly, when Americans are taught from a very early age that everything in the US is the best without question - it breeds an attitude of superiority & condescension that doesn’t translate well to other cultures. Not all Americans of course, but frequent enough that there is a distinct stereotype of an American abroad that is unfortunately true if you observe them often enough outside the United States. In most of Europe, Japan & probably Thailand - the culture is much more based on society as a whole and consideration of others. In Japan - there’s silence on the subway because they don’t want to disturb others. There are no trash cans on the streets of Tokyo because they wouldn’t think to litter and offend others. In Spain - resources are devoted to things that benefit the greater society - such as pristine roads, beautiful airports & the most modern high speed rail system in Europe. While in the US, the infrastructure is dated & falling apart because nobody wants to pay taxes - they don’t see the benefit in things that benefit the greater society. I don’t hate the United States or Americans - but I’ve chosen to live far away from all the selfish & bad behavior as much as possible. When you have the opportunity to live outside the United States for extended periods of time & then return - you notice all the awful things that Americans see as totally normal & routine in everyday life. another thing that has changed the European (and others) perception of the US & Americans is social media, before social media, there was a carefully curated image of the US in film & television that often portrayed a glamorous image not anywhere close to reality. now, they can see the homeless people, poverty, gun violence and all the rest that is the true reality in everyday America. None of this is complicated when you understand the context - and step away for just a bit to consider how Americans & their behavior is seen by others. You forgot to mention (again) obesity as one of out greatest problems. Somehow they love our music, movies, books, inventions, etc. Marc in Calif 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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