Sentence Construction/Grammar Question

[+ azdr0710]

4 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

If you'd been a professional proofreader/editor, you would have lost the "two spaces after a period" habit a LONG time ago. 😊

I still cling to the two-spaces convention since it looks much neater and very professional.  It's also easier for the eyes to comprehend and read.  @youngboldone: we are an army of two against the world.  

[Marc in Calif]

11 minutes ago, azdr0710 said:

I still cling to the two-spaces convention since it looks much neater and very professional. 

It might look neater only if you're still using monospaced fonts. 🙃

Otherwise, it's very unprofessional. No "professional" writing is published this way today. 

As far as ease and speed of reading, that popular 2018 study has been thoroughly debunked. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Marc in Calif

[MikeBiDude]

54 minutes ago, azdr0710 said:

I still cling to the two-spaces convention since it looks much neater and very professional.  It's also easier for the eyes to comprehend and read.  @youngboldone: we are an army of two against the world.  

I think you have another in @ICTJOCK 😉

[MikeBiDude]

It's been a long time since I've seen messages with a hard carriage return? Another sign of a trained touch typist. I think my first touch typing class was in 1969, on a manual. I also miss 10 key numeric keypads. Have one when thethered at home but that's it.

[+ sync]

1 hour ago, azdr0710 said:

I still cling to the two-spaces convention since it looks much neater and very professional.  It's also easier for the eyes to comprehend and read.  @youngboldone: we are an army of two against the world.  

Make that three against the world.  👍

[Marc in Calif]

38 minutes ago, MikeBiDude said:

It's been a long time since I've seen messages with a hard carriage return? Another sign of a trained touch typist. I think my first touch typing class was in 1969, on a manual. I also miss 10 key numeric keypads. Have one when thethered at home but that's it.

Thanks for joining the 21st century! 🥳

[ICTJOCK]

1 hour ago, MikeBiDude said:

It's been a long time since I've seen messages with a hard carriage return? Another sign of a trained touch typist. I think my first touch typing class was in 1969, on a manual. I also miss 10 key numeric keypads. Have one when thethered at home but that's it.

I will have to ask my mother if they had "typewriters"  in 1969   

[Ali Gator]

1 & 2 is correct. 

As for the last sentence, it needs to be broken up into 2 sentences.  Put a period after space. Capitalize However with the comma after it, and you're all set. 

[+ poolboy48220]

17 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

If you'd been a professional proofreader/editor, you would have lost the "two spaces after a period" habit a LONG time ago. 😊

That is a terrifically hard habit to break.  During boring meetings I go through my documents and replace all the double spaces. 

[+ Charlie]

13 hours ago, Ali Gator said:

1 & 2 is correct. 

As for the last sentence, it needs to be broken up into 2 sentences.  Put a period after space. Capitalize However with the comma after it, and you're all set. 

Shouldn't it be "1 & 2 are correct?"

[+ Charlie]

14 hours ago, ICTJOCK said:

I will have to ask my mother if they had "typewriters"  in 1969   

As an historical footnote, when the typing machine was first invented, the term "typewriter" usually referred to the person using the machine.

[Bokomaru]

Let’s really get this conversation going. Who’s opposed to the Oxford comma? Tell us now so that we know who to block!

[wsc]

19 hours ago, KrisParr said:

https://youtu.be/iTXZUdyP7xc?si=wEPJ7eAF-girDfYn

 

I recently came across a marvelous Judy Garland video clip — her rendition of “From This Moment On” - and for whatever reason, I never noticed the lyrics. Ugh. You and ME, Cole, you and ME!

From this moment on
You and I babe
We'll be ridin' high babe
Every care is gone
From this moment on.

 

In my first visit to London, those oh so many years ago, I and a friend were in line to have our tickets checked before entering to see the Crown Jewels at the Tower. Two British schoolboys, each about 10 years old, were in front of us in line, wearing their school uniforms, complete with the iconic caps. One boy lifted two tickets to the usher saying, "For him and I," while gesturing to his mate beside him. The usher, a volunteering elderly gentleman, who by his dress of a three-piece pin-striped dark grey suit accented by a regimental tie, and which screamed traditionalist and by no stretch a modernist, tore the tickets in half then leaned into the young man to give him back the halves. In a gentle voice and with a grandfatherly manner, the old man then said to the young student, "For him and me," and with that clear emphasis. In my mind, both then and now, I took it to mean "Not on my watch, kid. Not on my watch." No slacker, that, and still one of my fondly remembered every-day heroes.

[In fact, in recounting this incident, I now realize that I can't see, hear, or think about the Tower of London without remembering that gracious gentleman. The student got a lesson, but I now see it was me that got a gift.]

[wsc]

6 hours ago, poolboy48220 said:

That is a terrifically hard habit to break.  During boring meetings I go through my documents and replace all the double spaces. 

I agree that it was very difficult, but I finally managed to transition from two spaces to only one after a sentence. 

And I couldn't be more grateful. I estimate that in the years since making the change, I have shaved as much as three minutes off my totaled workload.

[wsc]

1 hour ago, Bokomaru said:

Let’s really get this conversation going. Who’s opposed to the Oxford comma? Tell us now so that we know who to block!

Knowing talk of politics is verboten, still I must observe that them who oppose the Oxford comma are not only uncultured barbarians but also traitors to the Crown. Whenever that precious final punctuation is omitted, I know Professor Higgins spins in his literary grave.

In truth, however, while not universally needed, I think consistent use of the Oxford comma better assures a clarity in situations that without it, could be lost.

I compare it to use of turn signals. Use them instinctively without regard to whether someone is behind you or not, and then you'll never forget.

[jawjateck]

Great thread, azdr!

I employed interns for many years.  About 10-15 years ago, I stopped hiring them.  I could no longer deal with the semi-illiteracy of graduate students!  All of them were graduate students at well-known universities.  I marveled how they could advance so far academically but were not capable of basic composition.  Very few were able to do the technical writing I needed.  Occasionally, one of them would give me an academic paper to proof and/or comment.  Most of them were difficult to read, marred by poor grammar and sentence construction.  I was honest and usually hurt their feelings with my comments.

I retired many years ago, but I recently accepted a temporary job for which I have to read, evaluate, and produce technical documents.  I had to revive my own skills after years of dormancy.  I enjoy the mental stimulation.

P.S.  Composition, sentence structure, and grammar tips are all welcome!  😋

[wsc]

1 hour ago, jawjateck said:

Great thread, azdr!

I employed interns for many years.  About 10-15 years ago, I stopped hiring them.  I could no longer deal with the semi-illiteracy of graduate students!  All of them were graduate students at well-known universities.  I marveled how they could advance so far academically but were not capable of basic composition.  Very few were able to do the technical writing I needed.  Occasionally, one of them would give me an academic paper to proof and/or comment.  Most of them were difficult to read, marred by poor grammar and sentence construction.  I was honest and usually hurt their feelings with my comments.

I retired many years ago, but I recently accepted a temporary job for which I have to read, evaluate, and produce technical documents.  I had to revive my own skills after years of dormancy.  I enjoy the mental stimulation.

P.S.  Composition, sentence structure, and grammar tips are all welcome!  😋

I was both somewhat stunned but hardly surprised when I read (some years ago) that the most popular freshman college course was remedial English. Doesn't sound as if it helped much.

[+ Charlie]

5 hours ago, wsc said:

I

4 hours ago, wsc said:

 I must observe that them who oppose the Oxford comma are not only uncultured barbarians but also traitors to the Crown.

I now see it was me that got a gift.]

Oh, no! "THEY who oppose." It was I WHO got a gift." (I dare you to rip the red pen from my grip.)

Edited October 6, 2023 by Charlie

[Ali Gator]

10 hours ago, Charlie said:

Shouldn't it be "1 & 2 are correct?"

yup

(and that 'yup' should be 'yes').

[rvwnsd]

On 10/3/2023 at 9:22 AM, azdr0710 said:

though definitely not an expert, I'm often a stickler for spelling and grammar and get upset at what often appear to be un-proofed computer-generated news reports with horrible continuity/grammar/construction.....(but please excuse my very casual style here in the forum!......long story on that!)...... 

posting this now because of this I just read:

Family owned Mexican restaurant La Fonda Del Sol, closed its Shea Boulevard and 72nd Street location to move to 10155 E. Vía Linda in Scottsdale. The owners of EthioAfrican had planned to take over the space, however, according to the owner, plans fell through.

1.  a hyphen is needed between "family" and "owned" - correct?

2.  there is no need for a comma after "Del Sol" - correct?

3.  there should be a new sentence after "the space" since the use of "however" is very awkward and incorrect as is - correct?... (this misuse of "however" is very common and frustrating)....thanks for your thoughts

The entire article is hard to read. Microsoft Word has grammar-check and whoever wrote that article needs to turn it on and pay attention to its recommendations.

[Beancounter]

The importance of the lowly comma:

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.

[Mr.E]

36 minutes ago, Beancounter said:

The importance of the lowly comma:

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.

It can save lives.

[+ ThroatCummer]

Grammarly.com.  Use the free version. Make sure everything you write over a paragraph is through through there and scores a 97-98% or higher. Problem solved. It'll fix all the single or double space after sentences thing too. 

[+ ThroatCummer]

No need for human comments with you have ChatGPT with has the knowledge of billions and can rewrite anything. lol 

 

[Marc in Calif]

27 minutes ago, ThroatCummer said:

No need for human comments with you have ChatGPT with has the knowledge of billions and can rewrite anything. lol 

 

Even ChatGPT didn't correct the following punctuation error that was introduced by @ThroatCummer -- the apostrophe preceding 72nd Street in the prior address of the restaurant.

There's no need for that apostrophe in a street address because no numbers have been omitted (as in '72 replacing 1972 in dates).