What's considered acceptable medical care in your country?

[Guest]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:42 AM, pubic_assistance said:

... devoid of any ability to do anything but watch TV, eat and shit.

...

Some people actually enjoy a good poop--as well as eating and watching TV.

[+ tassojunior]

That actually describes the life of many people during the lockdown. There were some excellent movies and streaming series on during the worst of the pandemic (suspicious coincidence? lol). And as you get older the BM's become a blessing. I could enjoy life if the quality was that good. But with the garbage on now IDK........

[+ Pensant]

Portugal does have excellent healthcare. The old seem to live forever there. With a total fertility rate well below replacement, it is becoming a center of geriatric care, causing some level of discontent among the younger citizens, based on a number of discussions I had there last year. They don’t see much future there outside of the tourist industry.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Pensant

[+ Charlie]

A number of years ago, an English friend of mine retired to Portugal because he thought he could live there more comfortably than he could in London on his modest pension. He would occasionally phone me practically crying, because he said the health care was great, but otherwise he found it a miserable place to live for an elderly gay man.

3 hours ago, Pensant said:

Portugal does have excellent healthcare. The old seem to live forever there. With a total fertility rate well below replacement, it is becoming a center of geriatric care, causing some level of discontent among the younger citizens, based on a number of discussions I had there last year. They don’t see much future there outside of the tourist industry.

 

[Marc in Calif]

50 minutes ago, Charlie said:

... he found it a miserable place to live for an elderly gay man.

Where was he living exactly?

[+ Charlie]

54 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

Where was he living exactly?

Unfortunately, I don't remember.

[+ Lucky]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

A number of years ago, an English friend of mine retired to Portugal because he thought he could live there more comfortably than he could in London on his modest pension. He would occasionally phone me practically crying, because he said the health care was great, but otherwise he found it a miserable place to live for an elderly gay man.

 

Why did he think it was miserable for an elderly man?

[+ Charlie]

Just now, Lucky said:

Why did he think it was miserable for an elderly man?

He was in a somewhat rural area, and found it difficult to make friends of any kind, despite being a very intelligent person (retired school teacher) and a pleasant personality.

[Marc in Calif]

Just now, Charlie said:

He was in a somewhat rural area... 

This is the first mistake for an older gay man seeking to be an expat in another country.  

[pubic_assistance]

8 hours ago, Charlie said:

found it a miserable place to live for an elderly gay man.

I'm curious.

What about it did he find "miserable" ?

 

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

I'm curious.

What about it did he find "miserable" ?

 

Kind of obvious isn't it - he was lonely.

[Marc in Calif]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

Kind of obvious isn't it - he was lonely.

Even with his modest pension, can't he relocate to a more urban area in Portugal or Spain?

[MscleLovr]

14 hours ago, Charlie said:

A number of years ago, an English friend of mine retired to Portugal because he thought he could live there more comfortably than he could in London on his modest pension. He would occasionally phone me practically crying, because he said the health care was great, but otherwise he found it a miserable place to live for an elderly gay man.

 

It’s very sad but I’m not surprised by this. Generally I find both Portuguese and Spanish people to be very polite, but those living in rural areas tend to be rather more conservative.

I can relate two direct experiences of life in rural Catalonia (the province of which Barcelona is the main city).
First, I had a younger Catalan partner and we had a house in the countryside. I made a big effort (trying to speak Catalan, sharing produce from our fruit trees, inviting neighbours to dinner etc) - my point is that I was expected to make the effort because I was the foreigner. There was an Englishman (40s) living nearby but he made no effort to be nice to his neighbours, so they neglected to invite him to various gatherings.

Second, there was a rather handsome young police officer (20s) in the rural force. He was friendly and I had a sense that he might be gay. So we invited him to dinner one night and he confided in us. He, locally born and raised, lamented how difficult it was to find a partner. We urged him to move into Barcelona: he did and joined the police there, and now has a partner.

[pubic_assistance]

8 hours ago, Rudynate said:

Kind of obvious isn't it - he was lonely.

If it were obvious I wouldn't have asked.

Loneliness seems more of a personal issue, than geographical. So I hardly think that was made clear by saying he moved to Portugal.

I've been several times. It's a beautiful country and the people have all been lovely...so I have a very different experience of the place. However I don’t live there...so his social situation may be different from the touristexperience.

[Bokomaru]

Back on the topic, I wanted to mention how struck I was by my NHS care in the UK as it compared to the US. Here it seems doctors are often very rushed and don’t take time to really dig into the issue. Especially if it’s something difficult to pin down. 
 

In the UK I had the (admittedly anecdotal) opposite experience. With two separate heath issues, the doctors I encountered took the time for very thorough questions about medical history and symptoms. A 30+ minute discussion is a rarity in the US and it seems I’m often suggested a pill to take to see if it helps… “come back if you’re still having trouble.” But in the UK, careful discussion  yielded great results for me. 

I’m generalizing of course about US care. And I will admit that the many Brits in my life seem to have a low opinion of NHS. They all seem to have private insurance. 

[Rudynate]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

If it were obvious I wouldn't have asked.

Loneliness seems more of a personal issue, than geographical. So I hardly think that was made clear by saying he moved to Portugal.

I've been several times. It's a beautiful country and the people have all been lovely...so I have a very different experience of the place. However I don’t live there...so his social situation may be different from the touristexperience.

True - it is a personal issue.  But loneliness among the elderly is a widespread problem, right here in the US.  Add in the complicating factors of being a stranger in a strange land, a language barrier, gay in a Latin country - and you have loneliness waiting to happen.    Being a tourist is a different thing - its their job to be nice to you.  I'm sure the Portuguese are lovely - but they already have lives.  They aren't sitting around waiting to befriend the next expat American who moves in down the road.

[+ Charlie]

3 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I've been several times. It's a beautiful country and the people have all been lovely...so I have a very different experience of the place. However I don’t live there...so his social situation may be different from the touristexperience.

That is the point that anyone looking to retire anywhere should consider. He moved to a beautiful area that he had experienced before only as a tourist. Daily living is more than charming scenery, good restaurants, nice weather, and free healthcare.

[Rudynate]

4 minutes ago, Charlie said:

That is the point that anyone looking to retire anywhere should consider. He moved to a beautiful area that he had experienced before only as a tourist. Daily living is more than charming scenery, good restaurants, nice weather, and free healthcare.

I wouldn't even consider moving anywhere where I didn't already speak the language.  To expect yourself to learn a new language in addition to everything else just is a lot to ask of yourself.   I have already decided that I will not move out of the country, but I am keeping Canada as an option if things get too weird in the US.  I was saying to a freind just the other day that it would be good idea to establish what the trigger would be for leaving the US.  Lots of German Jews got caught because they kept putting off leaving - they hadn't identified a triggering circumstance so it was easy to keep putting it off.   

[+ Charlie]

4 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

I wouldn't even consider moving anywhere where I didn't already speak the language.  To expect yourself to learn a new language in addition to everything else just is a lot to ask of yourself.   I have already decided that I will not move out of the country, but I am keeping Canada as an option if things get too weird in the US.  I was saying to a freind just the other day that it would be good idea to establish what the trigger would be for leaving the US.  Lots of German Jews got caught because they kept putting off leaving - they hadn't identified a triggering circumstance so it was easy to keep putting it off.   

Speaking the local language is certainly a help for anyone living anywhere. I have lived in places where I wasn't fluent in the language (Czechoslovakia) or where my accent gave me away as a foreigner (England), but English is the lingua franca, so to speak, in most parts of the world now, and I never found becoming at least moderately communicative in the local language all that hard. Learning another language is easier to do, however, if one is young, and I wouldn't want to have to start learning a language that is completely foreign to me (e.g., Japanese, Finnish, Arabic) now that my brain is old and tired.

Canada never seems as foreign--to me--as Louisiana or West Virginia.

[Rudynate]

7 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Speaking the local language is certainly a help for anyone living anywhere. I have lived in places where I wasn't fluent in the language (Czechoslovakia) or where my accent gave me away as a foreigner (England), but English is the lingua franca, so to speak, in most parts of the world now, and I never found becoming at least moderately communicative in the local language all that hard. Learning another language is easier to do, however, if one is young, and I wouldn't want to have to start learning a language that is completely foreign to me (e.g., Japanese, Finnish, Arabic) now that my brain is old and tired.

Canada never seems as foreign--to me--as Louisiana or West Virginia.

What I love about Canadians is that they are exactly like us and nothing like us, all at the same time. I have lots of relatives in Quebec - all in the Trois-Rivieres area - they've been there since the mid-1600''s

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

I am keeping Canada as an option if things get too weird in the US.  I

Without getting deep into political discussions, I think you better do some research about Canada before you just assume the grass is greener over there and there's no "weirdness" going on there too.

[pubic_assistance]

3 hours ago, Rudynate said:

...Add in the complicating factors of being a stranger in a strange land, a language barrier, gay in a Latin country - and you have loneliness waiting to happen. 

So it really had nothing to do with Portugal being a poor choice to retire.The gentleman simply didn't think through a move of this kind for his retirement.

Even for younger people, moving to a foreign country without family and friends nearby is a challenge.

For retired individuals the lack of a work routine requires you keep yourself busy with volunteer work that offers social interacions. Sounds like this gentleman was expecting a new life to fall into his lap. Re-locating takes effort and being the ex-pat anywhere means a lot of effort to blend in.

 

[Rudynate]

7 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

So it really had nothing to do with Portugal being a poor choice to retire.The gentleman simply didn't think through a move of this kind for his retirement.

Even for younger people, moving to a foreign country without family and friends nearby is a challenge.

For retired individuals the lack of a work routine requires you keep yourself busy with volunteer work that offers social interacions. Sounds like this gentleman was expecting a new life to fall into his lap. Re-locating takes effort and being the ex-pat anywhere means a lot of effort to blend in.

 

No, I never said it did.  You're exactly right - he didn't think it through before he did it.  I have lived abroad - I know what it's like.  I loved it, but it was at times very difficult and I experienced moments of deep isolation. 

[Rudynate]

25 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Without getting deep into political discussions, I think you better do some research about Canada before you just assume the grass is greener over there and there's no "weirdness" going on there too.

No place is perfect.  

[MscleLovr]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

For retired individuals the lack of a work routine requires you keep yourself busy with volunteer work that offers social interacions.….Re-locating takes effort and being the ex-pat anywhere means a lot of effort to blend in.

 

Extremely well put @pubic_assistance 

I moved abroad for 18 months to work in my early 20s. I was the only foreigner in the prestigious firm I joined. Luckily I had as my lover a local man who was 4 years older, so I did slot into a ready-made social scene and group of friends. Nonetheless, it was quite challenging. In retirement, I live abroad part of each year. It is a great pleasure for me but there are some drawbacks too.

There can also be cultural differences that you don’t anticipate. For example, if you are injured or fall seriously ill in Spain, critical (or intensive) care is excellent…but as soon as you are well enough to be on a general ward, family members are expected to visit often and regularly to assist with nursing care and rehabilitation. Once on the mend, a foreigner alone in a Spanish hospital would feel quite isolated.