Did Florida get something right? High Speed rail service thriving

[+ azdr0710]

Only when we get the population density of Europe will train travel be viable in the US. Those few areas of the US already with that density have successful train operations. It's a nice dream, but geography, economics, and selfish Americans doom it. 

[mike carey]

7 hours ago, azdr0710 said:

Only when we get the population density of Europe will train travel be viable in the US. Those few areas of the US already with that density have successful train operations. It's a nice dream, but geography, economics, and selfish Americans doom it. 

At the risk of deviating from 'Florida' and 'high speed rail' I've seen two things that could foreshadow some changes even in the US (although between some intermediate city pairs not cross-country, and I'm not holding my breath!). In Europe night trains are making a comeback with, for example ÖBB starting Berlin-Paris and Vienna-Brussels services (they cross in Mannheim and carriages are swapped between the two trains giving passengers the option of Berlin-Brussels and Vienna-Paris}, and Eurostar is running London-Switzerland ski trains, admittedly with an across-the-platform change in Lille, to allow people to avoid flying. The second data point is the recent upsurge in demand for the two daily Sydney-Melbourne trains which have a sleeper option on the night one. No extra services so far, but they have added carriages on some occasions.

[+ tassojunior]

10 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

The lack of rail service in the United States is becoming a real problem. Airports are completely overwhelmed. Flights are packed-tight like cans of tuna, and check in at most any airport is a humilating experience.

Traveling by rail in Europe is a joyful break from all the misery of US travel that forces you to fly instead of having a rail option..

but population in Europe is dropping fast. 

[+ tassojunior]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:38 PM, samhexum said:

Could somebody please explain to me why kiddie docs are so vulnerable?

you've obviously never been to a pediatrician in Florida.

 lol- seriously it s total of 30 people- maybe one SUV with 6 pediatricians

[+ tassojunior]

On 9/3/2023 at 1:21 PM, EZEtoGRU said:

All true.  Plus real high speed rail has little interaction with road traffic.  It goes either above or below the roads to maximize speed and safety.  That would be prohibitively expensive to build in today's world in the US.  

medians should be free but anyway the Japanese company proposes to build and finance the system themselves. Problem is you get into vested interests of rail unions, AMTRAK, even "smarter growth" people employed by lobbyists or rail and the companies whohave captive control of the the Transportation Dept. 

I think transit and pollution both would benefit a lot by having a super high-speed, even an expensive, fast link between Dulles, DCA, BWI, PHL, EWR, and maybe LGA/JFK. It's amazing how many air travelers fly between those airports and it's substantial numbers of connections. IAD or DCA to PHL in 25 minutes or NYC in an hour will never happen by traditional rail and traditional rail made a little  faster will not take more of the market than it has from air. .But the vested financial interests will veto like everything else.  

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 12/23/2023 at 8:14 AM, azdr0710 said:

Only when we get the population density of Europe will train travel be viable in the US. Those few areas of the US already with that density have successful train operations. It's a nice dream, but geography, economics, and selfish Americans doom it. 

Train travel in the U.S. was quite popular in the 1940s.  People regularly traveled all over California and the West via train when it was much more sparsely populated than it is today.  It's not that Europe has more density than the U.S, it's that the U.S. has more travel options with a great Interstate Hghway System and lots of airports.  As roads become more congested and flying becomes less of a luxury and more onerous, train travel will once again become popular.

[EZEtoGRU]

I took Brightline from Miami to Ft. Lauderdale last week.  My Premium ticket cost $32.  A Premium Class ticket entitles you to an Uber ride to your departing station and from your arriving station (I think there is a five mile limit for each segment).  I made use of Uber on both ends with the costs being fully covered by Brightline.  According to their calculations, the Uber costs were just over $30.  If this is accurate, that means my resulting train fare in Premium Class was $2.  BTW, the Premium ticket entitled me to an alcoholic beverage and a small snack (potato chips and a candy bar).  I declined both but I could have had them if I wanted.  How is Brightline making any money?  I'd be interested in seeing their financials.  Who is funding this project?

FWIW, the train seemed only about 10% full on this segment.  After Lauderdale, my train was stopping in Palm Beach and then Orlando.  This was my 4th time on Brightline and none of the trips have been very full.  I hope they can make a go of this...but I really wonder.

[samhexum]

 

Biden looking to revive interest in Texas bullet train project

[+ sniper]

Again,  NEW trains are almosr inpossible to put anywhere someone wants them because we ripped up a lot of the old tracks and put up buildings and roads all over then routes. Building a mile of new track might entail buyimg out a couple hundred million worth of real estate and THEN having to tear it down before you've actually built anything. Now multiply that by the number of miles long a route needs to be for it to make sense.

These other countries with good systems built the cities around the rails, not the other way around. You can't get there from here. We'd be better off subsidizing bus travel and making it appealing to get more cars off the road.

[samhexum]

2 hours ago, sniper said:

We'd be better off subsidizing bus travel and making it appealing to get more cars off the road.

Unless the buses are RVs carrying only people traveling together, people are never going to travel long distances by bus in sufficient numbers for that to work.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

11 hours ago, sniper said:

These other countries with good systems built the cities around the rails, not the other way around.

Actually, it was the other way around.  European cities we established before railroads.  Railroads had to be brought into the centers of European cities by eminent domain or underground tunnels.  In the U.S., most Midwestern and Western cities built up around a railroad.  Major East Coast cities had the train brought in through tunnels and expensive land purchases.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I don't see Brightline doing well at the moment, as ridership is low and they're offering a lot of incentives (free ubers to/from) to get people to ride.  

The last few times I've been on it, the trains have been pretty empty.  

I hope that changes.  It was a huge amount of money and a lot of other train projects hinge on it doing well.