I feel the RM community needs to also go on strike

[Jason Dutch]

Strike now or strike later, I am very serious about starting a hustlers union. There are a many SW-led advocacy projects and even some self-styled unions that are mostly women. We should definitely be organizing to build collective power ( issues of labour, criminalization, violence/exploitation, stigma and health, and I believe part of that could mean building worker run platforms/collaboratives that serve us rather than the profit driven sites we are stick with. In the amateur porn sphere for example we have Justfor.fans which is owned and staffed my models/SWers. We could all be better off bu pooling our resources / labour power to secure much needed rights, standards, and more dignified ways of working. 

Alas, Right now, male SW solidarity remains uncommon and decentralized. The scarcity mentality driven by RM and similar sites (compounded by state criminalization, widespread societal scorn, neoliberal capitalism in general and most recently, our global payment processing overlords) pits us against each other as competitors, fracturing our ability to push for changes  and generally driving standards down.  Imagine what happens when we can meaningfully harness our collective influence so far but I feel like we are on the precipice of changing that.
 

Taking control of our working conditions doesn’t stop at the platforms either,  in my eyes. We would all be better off if a critical mass of providers can establish (or at least push toward) some shared minimum rates/service for example. Lets expand on and safety systems like bad date books, screening tools (much more common for women/femme SWers I have observed) and safety check in systems. We could develop regional networks for mutual aid and travel support/exchange, create infrastructure kn our terms…there’s so much we could do!
 

We are talking and planning about this sometimes in a private forum I run for/with other guys. Providers (and I mean providers only please) DM me if interested. 

[EZEtoGRU]

18 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

I would suggest not making fun of subjects like autism, Asperger,  etc. reminds me of a big orange bully!

What??

So I point out the behaviors a poster has done in the past and then I am accused of making fun of Autism & Asperger???  Mary you need to lay off the alcohol.

[+ tassojunior]

26 minutes ago, arnemgreeves said:

I dunno who runs Rentmen, but I doubt they might need it for the revenue. So a strike hurts escorts more than the owners of the site. Hollywood studios need writers - all dramatic works need writers. 

May just be best to start a new site and compete with rentmen. 

and go to prison for a long time or life.

Rentmen and RentMasseur are in Berlin and Amsterdam so the government can't put them in prison like BackPage and RentBoy. 

[+ tassojunior]

5 minutes ago, arnemgreeves said:

Have they broken the law? If so, then complain to the Dutch and German governments. Or the EU. 

They have tried many times. However, what they do is not considered "sex trafficking" in their countries as it is in the US. But evidently the feds are monitoring RM very closely.

But no, no one in the US try to open a competitor to RM. Bad idea. 

[Archangel]

Tell your Congressperson that RM holds an effective monopoly on the market like Microsoft or Apple or Facebook. They can prosecute or at least hold hearings for anti-trust violations. 👍🏻 I’m sure your concerns about market equity will receive an honest hearing from the law! 

[+ DrownedBoy]

I'd be perfectly happy to see a SW union....

....provided that union membership requires a commitment to professionalism. Such mandatory rules like getting to sessions on time (and discounts for being late), making honest and up-to-date ads, etc.

If you want to make a union, you need to be professionals. And unfortunately, a lot of SW on RentMen are not.  Union membership is a responsibility, not just a way to gain benefits, to signal you're a reliable and good worker, and are therefore good to hire. You don't just let anyone in.

Edited July 30, 2023 by DrownedBoy

[Archangel]

Just now, DrownedBoy said:

I'd be perfectly happy to see a SW union....

....provided that union membership requires a commitment to professionalism. Such mandatory rules like getting to sessions on time (and discounts for being late), making honest and up-to-date ads, etc.

If you want to make a union, you need to be professionals. And unfortunately, a lot of SF on RentMen are not.

Ohhhhhh how I am tickled pink ti see you say this. There are far too many escorts who think they’re owed everything without delivering any decency let alone professionalism.

A million applauses for this! 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

9 hours ago, Jason Dutch said:

Strike now or strike later, I am very serious about starting a hustlers union. There are a many SW-led advocacy projects and even some self-styled unions that are mostly women. We should definitely be organizing to build collective power ( issues of labour, criminalization, violence/exploitation, stigma and health, and I believe part of that could mean building worker run platforms/collaboratives that serve us rather than the profit driven sites we are stick with. In the amateur porn sphere for example we have Justfor.fans which is owned and staffed my models/SWers. We could all be better off bu pooling our resources / labour power to secure much needed rights, standards, and more dignified ways of working. 

Alas, Right now, male SW solidarity remains uncommon and decentralized. The scarcity mentality driven by RM and similar sites (compounded by state criminalization, widespread societal scorn, neoliberal capitalism in general and most recently, our global payment processing overlords) pits us against each other as competitors, fracturing our ability to push for changes  and generally driving standards down.  Imagine what happens when we can meaningfully harness our collective influence so far but I feel like we are on the precipice of changing that.
 

Taking control of our working conditions doesn’t stop at the platforms either,  in my eyes. We would all be better off if a critical mass of providers can establish (or at least push toward) some shared minimum rates/service for example. Lets expand on and safety systems like bad date books, screening tools (much more common for women/femme SWers I have observed) and safety check in systems. We could develop regional networks for mutual aid and travel support/exchange, create infrastructure kn our terms…there’s so much we could do!
 

We are talking and planning about this sometimes in a private forum I run for/with other guys. Providers (and I mean providers only please) DM me if interested. 

Great coverage. I’ll be reaching out privately. Everything said hits the topic. That’s why I’m glad I found Reddit sex work community, they are so much more real about things. It’s just with it predominantly women, it’s not always the same level. For example, it’s more common to do quick visits and also charge $500-$600 an hour. 

However, what ways do you refer to specifically scarcity mentality among M4M providers?
 

1 hour ago, tassojunior said:

and go to prison for a long time or life.

Rentmen and RentMasseur are in Berlin and Amsterdam so the government can't put them in prison like BackPage and RentBoy. 

Well I think it bears mentioning: I can’t speak on RB but the whole thing with backpage was bigger than just sex work. Agendas, trafficking, different kinds of seedy activities.

That’s why I was not condoning one poster in another thread not to “go to the police” being harassed over phone by a provider. First thing the police going to do is ask a million questions, and then bringing RentMen up just further scrutinizes the site and industry. Not that the behavior is justified at all but, it’s just the reality of it. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

2 hours ago, arnemgreeves said:

I dunno who runs Rentmen, but I doubt they might need it for the revenue. So a strike hurts escorts more than the owners of the site. Hollywood studios need writers - all dramatic works need writers. 

May just be best to start a new site and compete with rentmen. 

I just wrapped up my 1 week “hiatus” from RMen. But since then I earned a client from RMass the other day. Fortunately/Unfortunately, I had to go back to work. But, I paid for it with borrowed money 💳 : The one client I had all week wasn’t enough to cover my personal expenses AND a Gold RM ad. 
 

I understand RM is basically an advertising platform. I know they don’t make or break or steer the industry. They also can’t help some “potential” clients are full of shit and play games. Especially in areas where the men are already cheap and stingy with their money and always looking for free dick and ass. RentMen can’t change that mentality. That’s why I had to come up with my own set of standards  and website for dealing with people.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Archangel]

4 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

They also can’t help some “potential” clients are full of shit and play games. Especially in areas where the men are already cheap and stingy with their money and always looking for free dick and ass.

They also can’t help some providers are full of shit and play games. Especially the men who are flakes and think they’re owed money because of they look good and always looking for to cash in on dick and ass.

If you understand it’s an advertising platform, why are you looking for them to regulate? They provide the platform. The onus is on escort and client to do the vetting.

[Archangel]

The oldest profession going on strike…the profession that always finds a way whenever everything is set up to work against it down through the ages going on strike…never thought I’d come across that.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

1 hour ago, Archangel said:

They also can’t help some providers are full of shit and play games. Especially the men who are flakes and think they’re owed money because of they look good and always looking for to cash in on dick and ass.

If you understand it’s an advertising platform, why are you looking for them to regulate? They provide the platform. The onus is on escort and client to do the vetting.

Not necessarily. Why do you think: RentMen offers advertisers the option for verified photos? Why do you think we can’t place our numbers in our ad (search bots). Why do you think we have reviews? Why do you think we have a block function on RM messenger? Why do you think RM has no need to filter anything?

I’m not saying they’re not responsible for anything. Things are a long way from newspaper and “HotSpots” magazines (which I don’t personally have experience in but: I could imagine the lack of screening and just having nothing but a phone number had to be a different experience). 
 

They have recognized that they have some power over the screening methods. Which is great, but we need more.
 

1 hour ago, Archangel said:

The oldest profession going on strike…the profession that always finds a way whenever everything is set up to work against it down through the ages going on strike…never thought I’d come across that.

Ha. I woulda never thought YOU, woulda never thought. Sex workers have been lobbying for the cause for years, where have you been? 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Archangel]

2 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Ha. I woulda never thought YOU, woulda never thought. Sex workers have been lobbying for the cause for years, where have you been? 

For one, I suspect you don’t intend for the disorganized “movement” for sex work appreciation, in the broad sense. You have an organized view of striking unless things are done the way you want it on particular platforms. That’s, as you present it, unlikely to happen outside of organized labor, a union.

 

We’ll have to disagree on Rentmen. I have my opinions about your views on the business side of the business, but if I express them I’ll get read the riot act by many here. So we’ll just have to disagree.

 

[Guest]

On 7/22/2023 at 10:09 AM, arnemgreeves said:

Easier said than done. 

 

[+ nycman]

14 hours ago, DrownedBoy said:

Union membership is a responsibility, not just a way to gain benefits,

LMAO. 

I can see you’ve never worked in a “Union shop".

[Simon Suraci]

@Jarrod_Uncut I hear you on the high costs of moving and generally higher costs of living in other cities/states. San Diego as an example is tough. Looking at the article you referenced, someone would have to make over $100k to live there in an average one bedroom apartment. It’s crazy. At the same time, if you do manage to move there or elsewhere, you could recoup the costs over time by leveraging a market that will better support you. 

Still, it takes money to make that first leap and I hear you there. Traveling can be profitable in sprints, but it helps to have a solid client base in a home market. Traveling for many months at a time can be a big drain financially and physically.

I’m moving to San Diego this week. Actually I’m in El Paso tonight stopping over to rest, with a U-Haul and my Jeep in tow. I was already in an excellent market in Dallas, so it’s probably not a drastic change, but San Diego I have every confidence will support my business, even though my costs are going up by moving there.

I hope you catch a break soon and with your next windfall consider moving to a more profitable market outside of Kansas City. In the right market, you will do well, I’m sure. At the end of the day, clients are a challenge in any market, but if you have enough consistent business, that lays the right groundwork for success.

[Simon Suraci]

Maybe something like a SW professional organization could help. At least there you can develop some more standards for how to operate professionally, and belonging to it can therefore boost credibility and therefore client confidence.

The trouble is SWs are working for themselves for the most part. Unions work because you have distinct, large employers that feel the burn if a significant percentage of their employees were to strike under union organization.

For us, it’s many individual clients that make up our “employers”, so to speak. We’re really working for ourselves. Since we don’t work for a big employer, all of those individual clients behave much differently than a big company. Also, since it’s still illegal in most parts of the US, legal enforcement and legal pressures do not apply like they do for other work. Striking doesn’t really work effectively.

We don’t work for RentMen. If we don’t like how RentMen does things, someone (individual, company, or collective) can challenge their market share by offering an alternative platform. Instead of boycotting RentMen in a negative manner, we could invest time and resources in a positive manner into building an alternative platform clients and SW like using better than the current hegemony. Maybe this kind of organization could look more like a gofundme campaign rather than a “strike”.

[Archangel]

3 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

We don’t work for RentMen. If we don’t like how RentMen does things, someone (individual, company, or collective) can challenge their market share by offering an alternative platform. Instead of boycotting RentMen in a negative manner, we could invest time and resources in a positive manner into building an alternative platform clients and SW like using better than the current hegemony. Maybe this kind of organization could look more like a gofundme campaign rather than a “strike”.

Well stated. I’d like to see something other than one juggernaut platform.

 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

4 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

@Jarrod_Uncut I hear you on the high costs of moving and generally higher costs of living in other cities/states. San Diego as an example is tough. Looking at the article you referenced, someone would have to make over $100k to live there in an average one bedroom apartment. It’s crazy. At the same time, if you do manage to move there or elsewhere, you could recoup the costs over time by leveraging a market that will better support you. 

Still, it takes money to make that first leap and I hear you there. Traveling can be profitable in sprints, but it helps to have a solid client base in a home market. Traveling for many months at a time can be a big drain financially and physically.

I’m moving to San Diego this week. Actually I’m in El Paso tonight stopping over to rest, with a U-Haul and my Jeep in tow. I was already in an excellent market in Dallas, so it’s probably not a drastic change, but San Diego I have every confidence will support my business, even though my costs are going up by moving there.

I hope you catch a break soon and with your next windfall consider moving to a more profitable market outside of Kansas City. In the right market, you will do well, I’m sure. At the end of the day, clients are a challenge in any market, but if you have enough consistent business, that lays the right groundwork for success.

Oh yeah, I am working on lining up an exodus asap. I cannot continue working the Kansas City/St. Louis/Missouri market in general, I feel like I’m having recurring mini panic attacks throughout the week….In the meantime just trying to eat and hydrate, exercise and keep myself looking and feeling healthy so it doesn’t show on the outside. I know I have to be ready for when a client does reach out. I have things to fill my time with, but going days/all day without any bookings is disappointing. 
 

July was a bit of a damper because I had like 3 different big expenses going all at once and couldn’t do anything out of town. All I could do was go hard (no pun intended) and try to work with the base I’m in: But I just feel it, it’s not where it needs to be. No matter how much I put available now, or market: I just can’t get enough out here. Then I paid for my RentMen ad Sunday and so far, only 1 new client and 1 regular this week.
 

There are some fun clients in the area, but some are just downright vile and toxic. I’ve had at least 2-3 highly emotionally abusive regulars: they come on strong and sex was always great, but they would regularly start arguments with me in between bookings, or play mind games. Eventually I’d have to burn their bridge. Other escorts would have took them for their money and cut them way sooner. 

Then most all the new inquiries here are always last minute short notice, clear across town. Idk why people can’t just be like: Hey I’m going to be available xxx day, and would like to meet at xxx time. That’s part of why I can’t drop my deposit policy because, I have to do a lot of last minute running around out here. Running around costs money upfront…

Just the other day, had someone contact me to come to Kansas City airport. That’s almost like DFW airport. Depending where in town, that can be an hour away. Most times when I go there, I’m planning to set aside minimum 4 hours of my day. 1 hour to get ready, 1 hour drive, 1 hour (usually longer) with client and another hour to drive back. And I’m supposed to be ready to do that on 10 minutes notice? At least call me in the morning or early afternoon, and plan it at night 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

When I tell him what time I could arrive: no response until the next morning, saying he fell asleep but will look me up next time.

That’s why some days I feel a certain way because, I spent funds on the ad: but didn’t earn back and it’s been almost a week. But I also realize the exposure is for the future, and takes time for it to work. And as mentioned: They can’t always mitigate how a market works or the level of difficulty it is to make it work.

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut