When meeting Internet friends for the first time, is it reasonable to expect a public meeting spot?

[+ FreshFluff]

During the pandemic, I took up a hobby that involved Zoom workshops. In one of these classes, I met a guy named Andrew and later joimed a smaller group he was organizing. Andrew lives in San Diego, and I suggested meeting him for dinner while I was there.  The idea was that we’d have dinner. On the day we were set to meet, Andrew texted me his address and said he hoped to “have a drink” (apparently at home) before going to dinner. I was pretty surprised that he’d expect a stranger to come to his home, so using COVID as a (poor) excuse, I said I’d prefer to meet outdoors. He then sent me a photo of his terrace  

We eventually met at a restaurant and had a great time, but I had to gently insist. I had thought that meeting in public the first time was the norm, but I now wonder if I gave him the impression that I don’t trust him. In fact, I thought (and still think) he’s a very sweet guy who is unlikely to harm me, but this is a matter of principle for me.

Do you think it’s reasonable to insist on meeting online friends in public the first time?

Edited April 14, 2022 by FreshFluff
Typos

[BuffaloKyle]

Reasonable yes. The norm? Not for me to be honest. I have met people online both in public and private settings for the first time but usually more so at their place especially if it's just gonna be a hookup.

[Kevin Slater]

Absolutely.  The fact that you had to insist sends an even bigger warning sign.  He should have realized that he was putting you in an awkward spot and immediately backed down.  The gender deferential isn't the driving factor here, but that he was deaf to that concerns me.  No one should be offended that you prioritize your safety, and if they are, good riddance to them.  Don't hesitate to stand your (public) ground.

Kevin Slater

[maninsoma]

Given the nature of this board, I'm sure most members here have either had a stranger over to their place or gone to a stranger's place.  My practice is always to meet people outside, though, if they are coming over to me; I don't feel comfortable just opening the door and letting someone in right away.  I want to not only see them first, but also have a minute to talk with them on the way to my condo.

I agree with Kevin that you were reasonable to want to meet in a public place and that the other guy not immediately deferring to your preference was problematic.  More than likely the guy was just being clueless, not intentionally offensive.  It doesn't matter what the "norm" is, though.  You do what works for you.

[MikeBiDude]

Yes I always prefer it with someone new. If I’m at a hotel - even just a few minutes in the lobby. Before someone comes to my home, there is usually some sort of coffee/lunch first. 
 

@glutes was it you or someone else who coined “Peets & Greet”, appropriate shorthand for a coffee date.

Edited to “greet”😉

[+ glutes]

"Peet's and Greet", that was I.

[+ WilliamM]

11 hours ago, FreshFluff said:

During the pandemic, I took up a hobby that involved Zoom workshops. In one of these classes, I met a guy named Andrew and later joimed a smaller group he was organizing. Andrew lives in San Diego, and I suggested meeting him for dinner while I was there.  The idea was that we’d have dinner. On the day we were set to meet, Andrew texted me his address and said he hoped to “have a drinks” (apparently at home) before going to dinner. I was pretty surprised that he’d expect a stranger to come to his home, so usingCOVID as a (poor) excuse, I said I’d prefer to meet outdoors. He then sent me a photo of his terrace  

We eventually met at a restaurant and had a great time, but I had to gently insist. I had thought that meeting in public the first time was the norm, but I now wonder if I gave him the impression that I don’t trust him. In fact, I thought (and still think) he’s a very sweet guy who is unlikely to harm me, but this is a matter of principle for me  

Do you think it’s reasonable to insist on meeting online friends in public the first time?

Not nessarily. I only met porn star  Billy Brandt at a bar because he was lost in Philadelphia.  I invite new guy to my home. I agree though 😊 that it is different for women

[+ FreshFluff]

3 hours ago, MikeBiDude said:

Yes I always prefer it with someone new. If I’m at a hotel - even just a few minutes in the lobby. Before someone comes to my home, there is usually some sort of coffee/lunch first. 
 

@glutes was it you or someone else who coined “Peets & Greet”, appropriate shorthand for a coffee date.

Edited to “greet”😉

Yes,  there  have definitely been discussions here about meeting for 15 minutes in public first and how the escort should be compensated for that.  I love @glutes ‘s Peet’s and greet. 

[+ FreshFluff]

8 hours ago, maninsoma said:

Given the nature of this board, I'm sure most members here have either had a stranger over to their place or gone to a stranger's place.  My practice is always to meet people outside, though, if they are coming over to me; I don't feel comfortable just opening the door and letting someone in right away.  I want to not only see them first, but also have a minute to talk with them on the way to my condo.

I agree with Kevin that you were reasonable to want to meet in a public place and that the other guy not immediately deferring to your preference was problematic.  More than likely the guy was just being clueless, not intentionally offensive.  It doesn't matter what the "norm" is, though.  You do what works for you.

I agree that he may have been clueless. I wish I had just told him that I meet everyone in public. I came in a mask and initially forgot to remove it when we went outside to dine, so he may believe that I’m paranoid about COVID?

I initially thought he might be gay. But when we briefly touched on the topic of gay men who aren’t free to come out, he vigorously proclaimed his complete heterosexuality. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kevin Slater]

3 minutes ago, FreshFluff said:

I agree that he may have been clueless. I wish I had just told him that I meet everyone in public. I came in a mask and initially forgot to remove it when we went outside to dine, so he may believe that I’m paranoid about COVID?

I initially thought he might be gay. But when we briefly touched on the topic of gay men who aren’t free to come out, he vigorously proclaimed his complete heterosexuality.

Doth protest?

Kevin Slater

[+ FreshFluff]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Slater said:

Doth protest?

Kevin Slater

Definitely possible.  His body language suggested he wasn’t entirely comfortable, but he extended the evening at every opportunity. We definitely shut down the place.

 

[+ Lucky]

4 hours ago, glutes said:

"Peet's and Greet", that was I.

I'd prefer Starbucks and fucks!

[Kevin Slater]

29 minutes ago, Lucky said:

I'd prefer Starbucks and fucks!

Dunkin’ and plunkin’?   K-Cup and legs up?

Kevin Slater 

[+ FreshFluff]

The gender issues makes it a bigger deal. But as I texted with Andrew, I thought of this Street Scenes post from years ago..The poster is long gone, so I won’t credit him. 
 

“ (…)and returning to choose from among the smorgasboard of cute young Hispanic guys hanging around the Main Street bar area. There is of course risk involved, but so far I have met mostly fun guys and their rates are small slivers of the guys reviewed here. I usually drive them over to a fast food place and get them a bite to eat while I try to figure them out. If something seems not right - like if they talk about drugs or are obviously not clean, I usually give them a small bill and return them to where I met them.”

 

Andrew talked about drugs, so I returned him to his corner. Luckily, he bought me dinner first. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by FreshFluff

[Guest]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:02 PM, FreshFluff said:

... I was pretty surprised that he’d expect a stranger to come to his home, so using COVID as a (poor) excuse, I said I’d prefer to meet outdoors. He then sent me a photo of his terrace  

We eventually met at a restaurant and had a great time, but I had to gently insist...

 

On 4/13/2022 at 11:16 PM, Kevin Slater said:

Absolutely.  The fact that you had to insist sends an even bigger warning sign.  He should have realized that he was putting you in an awkward spot and immediately backed down....

To answer the OP's question, yes it is reasonable. Depending on how long you'd known and interacted with him, is it also excessively cautious? If it had been weeks, with multiple interactions, and no hint of irregular behavior on his part, I'd say probably yes, as well. Of course, it's up to you to decide what you're comfortable with. If you prefer meeting in a neutral location first, it was perfectly within your rights to bring up this preference. I disagree with KS that he "should have realized that he was putting you in an awkward spot," however. 

When you expressed your concern regarding COVID, he directly addressed your concerns in an appropriate manner. Or are you saying that he should have immediately picked up that you were lying about your true concerns? It's probably actually to his credit that he didn't immediately peg you as a liar. When you fessed up, he again addressed your concerns without making a fuss. 

My suggestion for the future is to always try to be honest. Your concerns, while perhaps a bit overboard, were valid for you. If he can't accept and respect your concerns, you probably don't belong together anyway. Now he may think you're a little nutty regarding Covid, and might be wondering what else you might be BS'ing about in future conversations. I never lie, unless essential to prevent someone's feelings from being hurt. I have lots of great friends who appreciate my honesty, and I prefer it that way. 

[+ WilliamM]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

 

To answer the OP's question, yes it is reasonable. Depending on how long you'd known and interacted with him, is it also excessively cautious? If it had been weeks, with multiple interactions, and no hint of irregular behavior on his part, I'd say probably yes, as well. Of course, it's up to you to decide what you're comfortable with. If you prefer meeting in a neutral location first, it was perfectly within your rights to bring up this preference. I disagree with KS that he "should have realized that he was putting you in an awkward spot," however. 

When you expressed your concern regarding COVID, he directly addressed your concerns in an appropriate manner. Or are you saying that he should have immediately picked up that you were lying about your true concerns? It's probably actually to his credit that he didn't immediately peg you as a liar. When you fessed up, he again addressed your concerns without making a fuss. 

My suggestion for the future is to always try to be honest. Your concerns, while perhaps a bit overboard, were valid for you. If he can't accept and respect your concerns, you probably don't belong together anyway. Now he may think you're a little nutty regarding Covid, and might be wondering what else you might be BS'ing about in future conversations. I never lie, unless essential to prevent someone's feelings from being hurt. I have lots of great friends who appreciate my honesty, and I prefer it that way. 

"Peg you [Freshfl] as a liar"

 

She is hardly a liar in very difficult social situation. Jeez.

[+ sniper]

Eh, I think it's just basic street smarts for any woman meeting a man for the first time to do so in public and I don't think she should feel any need to tiptoe around that. Straight up say you're old school that way. If a guy has a problem with that, it's a red flag. 

[+ FreshFluff]

2 hours ago, sniper said:

Eh, I think it's just basic street smarts for any woman meeting a man for the first time to do so in public and I don't think she should feel any need to tiptoe around that. Straight up say you're old school that way. If a guy has a problem with that, it's a red flag. 

This is what I would have said if I could do it over. Unfortunately, I was caught off guard. 

As for the previous poster’s remarks: Like I said, my instinct was that Andrew wouldn't get too pushy. But if my instincts had been wrong, as they occasionally are, I’d rather find out about it in a public place.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, FreshFluff said:

This is what I would have said if I could do it over....

I'm glad you learned a valuable lesson from this experience. 🙂 If you're upfront with people, you don't have to remember who you told you were afraid of Covid, who you have to wear a mask for, and so on. If you haven't already, you might want to tell that man that you made the Covid story up because you were "caught off guard," as you put it, and you're sorry about the confusion that may have caused. He knows already, but you'll earn respect from him! 😃

Edited April 16, 2022 by Unicorn

[mike carey]

On 4/14/2022 at 8:56 PM, maninsoma said:

More than likely the guy was just being clueless, not intentionally offensive. 

Me too on clueless. Showing you his terrace, which addressed your stated concern, and not realising it was not the actual reason is just that. There's nothing wrong with white lies, and it's not unreasonable to expect them to be recognised for what they are, a device to smooth the interaction. You can only know in retrospect if it was cluelessness or misunderstanding you deliberately. If you have any future interactions with him, you are under no obligation to mention it again, much less to explain yourself to him.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, mike carey said:

Me too on clueless. Showing you his terrace, which addressed your stated concern, and not realising it was not the actual reason is just that. There's nothing wrong with white lies, and it's not unreasonable to expect them to be recognised for what they are, a device to smooth the interaction. You can only know in retrospect if it was cluelessness or misunderstanding you deliberately. If you have any future interactions with him, you are under no obligation to mention it again, much less to explain yourself to him.

I disagree. I feel that lying is only OK when the only motive is to spare the person's feelings--not because you want to manipulate them into behaving in a certain way. The OP's post is a perfect example of why lies end up backfiring on the liar. As a practicing physician, there were many times I could lie to try to manipulate a patient, but ultimately I knew that this would only undermine the patient's trust in me and my word. The easiest examples are with children, but this is true for adults as well. 

I would never tell a child that "this isn't going to hurt" when I knew it would, and I asked that my nurses/medical assistants do the same. I would explain things truthfully to the child "The numbing medicine is going to sting for a few seconds, but I need to do that so that it won't hurt when I put in the stitches." While the child might not accept this, and I might need 3 nurses to hold the child down, at least I knew the child would respect my words and not think "My doctor lies to me," or, worse yet, "All doctors lie to their patients" (which could be carried into adulthood, perhaps subconsciously). 

My truth-telling extended to adults as well. In encouraging patients to follow my recommendations, I'd always give accurate assessments of the risks and benefits involved "I highly recommend the shingles shot. Shingles is the most common disease we give shots for--about 1 in 3 adults over 60 will get shingles--and, while shingles almost never is fatal, it is often extremely painful, and can stay painful for weeks or even months." If the patient still refused, I would simply document in the chart "Shingles immunization strongly recommended to patient, and patient declines." 

In my hospital, we had a Truth-telling Task Force which could be called upon to explain unexpected complications from procedures, for example. While time-consuming, it's better to be honest with patients (or family, if the patient lacks the capacity for decision-making) than to have them find out later and be angry about it. "I'm sorry, but we left a sponge in your belly during surgery. We will monitor you to make sure it doesn't get infected, and remove it should it present a problem--at no charge to you, of course." 

That being said, there are times when it's OK to lie--but only (in my opinion) to spare a person's feelings, not because you want them to behave in a certain way. For example, if I were visiting an old man with advanced dementia in the hospital or nursing home, and every morning he asked "When's my wife coming?" because he couldn't remember that his wife passed away 2 years ago, there's no need to tell him every day "Your wife passed away" and watch him go into tears. In this case, it's OK to say "You're going to be with her soon." 

In the OP's case, it wouldn't have taken that long to simply explain that she felt more comfortable meeting for the first time in person at a neutral site, rather than at his home. I'm pretty sure that most people would understand this explanation, and appreciate the honesty. I have lots of friends who may have beliefs I don't agree with. Some of those beliefs I might even find quite silly (veganism comes to mind). But I have to respect their values (or not accept the values and not be friends). If your new acquaintance couldn't accept the OP's values, that would have said more about him than about her. 

At this time, there are three possibilities I see for the current situation: (1) the new acquaintance believes the original "story" about the Covid-phobia (which may engender other thoughts), (2) the new acquaintance realizes he was lied to (knows the truth), and (3) the new acquaintance is confused and doesn't know what to believe. In any of these 3 situations, I believe it's in the OP's interest to come clean. Better late than never. Clearing the air will only gain the OP additional respect. 

https://brightside.me/inspiration-psychology/science-explains-how-little-white-lies-can-harm-our-kids-800669/

"...A lot of what our parents do will shape who we are as grown-ups. Lying included. Kids who’ve been lied to are more likely to hide the truth from their parents and maybe even peers when they get older. Even if parents are only a little dishonest, it still affects the future of the kid.

Instead of lying, parents should try and reason with their children. Explain why they can’t go play today and that they have errands to run, instead, they can play tomorrow. Kids more often than not, understand that. Honesty and truth pay off, and in the future, when they are troubled with something, it’s likely that they will feel confident enough to bring their problems to their parents...".

(I don't know how the OP's parents were with her, of course 😉).

[mike carey]

Most people understand the difference between social contexts where white lies are a social lubricant, and situations, such as clinical and other technical contexts, where precision and accuracy in communications are essential. With children there are issues of trust that could develop with 'this won't hurt' or 'this tastes great'. Those two may not be the archetypal examples, but learning what things need to be taken literally and which need to be taken [not literally] with a grain of salt (or in some cases a kilo of salt) is part of learning how to interact in society. (Some people on the spectrum have difficulty with that distinction, but that is a separate issue.)

[Guest]

8 hours ago, mike carey said:

Most people understand the difference between social contexts where white lies are a social lubricant...

I'm not sure what the OP gained by lying. Personally, I don't think feeling uncomfortable meeting someone for the fist time at his house is weirder than being paranoid about the virus in April of 2022. Now there's a somewhat uncomfortable situation. Do you think the lying was productive in this instance?

Yes, I understand that if an acquaintance asks me about his $1000 Gucci fanny pack, I'd tell him how nice it is, and wait until I'm alone with "Chris" to tell him "What kind of an idiot would pay $1000 for a fanny pack?". But that's to spare the man's feelings, not because I'm trying to manipulate him into buying more Gucci products. 

Personally, if I found out someone had lied to me in order to get me to do something, I'd be pissed off with that person. I don't know how you'd feel about it. "Chris" agrees with me on this. Maybe we're not "most people." Maybe we're "on the spectrum." 

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Edited April 18, 2022 by Unicorn

[MikeBiDude]

Moderator note: let’s keep this thread on the topic of meeting internet friends. Not a shopping discussion.

[mike carey]

41 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Do you think the lying was productive in this instance?

No, in this case not, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to say. Unless you are precise there's the chance of misunderstanding and you need to be ready if that happens. They may misunderstand naively or in an effort to be manipulative.