Will most Americans be gay by the turn of the next century?

[+ Charlie]

Can we go back to the original topic and ask what it means to be "gay"? It seems to me that there are three aspects to the label: (1) psychological--being sexually attracted almost exclusively to members of the same sex; (2) behavioral--engaging in sexual activity almost exclusively with members of the same sex; and (3) social--identifying with other men who match (1) and (2). (IMHO, there is also a fourth aspect, which is actually enjoying being in the three categories.)

Under those circumstances, I don't see how it would be possible to answer "yes" to the question in the title of this thread, which is really a joke about statistical analysis.

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, Rudynate said:

Or a Battenberg.

Same word but Anglicized for the Brits.

[xyz48B]

10 minutes ago, Charlie said:

engaging in sexual activity almost exclusively with members of the same sex

I wonder what counts as “almost.”

[pubic_assistance]

19 minutes ago, Charlie said:

I don't see how it would be possible to answer "yes" to the question in the title of this thread, which is really a joke about statistical analysis.

Yes...a bit of a joke ...but also speaks to the reality of what happens today when you engage in same-sex activity.

I am pretty open about my sexuality and yet the gays insist because I like sex with men.. I MUST be a homosexual. The fact that I am married is to them a matter of me being "in denial " and that I will eventually come to my senses and dump my wife and go marry a dude.

Gay men ( and women ) always seem to want to take ownership of anyone who blurs the lines a bit.

Thus....everyone who jerks off their roommate in the future will be listed as "gay".

[Rudynate]

23 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Same word but Anglicized for the Brits.

Of course.   Not everyone is as sharp as you.

[Rudynate]

36 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Can we go back to the original topic and ask what it means to be "gay"? It seems to me that there are three aspects to the label: (1) psychological--being sexually attracted almost exclusively to members of the same sex; (2) behavioral--engaging in sexual activity almost exclusively with members of the same sex; and (3) social--identifying with other men who match (1) and (2). (IMHO, there is also a fourth aspect, which is actually enjoying being in the three categories.)

Under those circumstances, I don't see how it would be possible to answer "yes" to the question in the title of this thread, which is really a joke about statistical analysis.

I hardly ever identify as gay anymore.   Of course San Francisco is a special case, but it hardly seems necessary to talk about sexual orientation.  When it comes up, I just say that I'm into guys. "Gay" this and "Gay" that are artifacts of people who are attracted to their own sex being marginalized and oppressed.    And of course plenty of that remains, but I'm able to imagine a society in which sexual orientation just isn't an issue. When it isn't an issue, people won't feel driven to live in gayborhoods and to go to gay bars and to go to gay churches, etc.  Believe me, I  will  miss my outlaw status as a gay man, but being an ordinary person who happens to go for men is pretty comfortable.

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

...Gay men ( and women ) always seem to want to take ownership of anyone who blurs the lines a bit...  The fact that I am married is to them a matter of me being "in denial " and that I will eventually come to my senses and dump my wife and go marry a dude...

What a broad generalization. I've never told a man who's described himself as bi that he really must be gay. Nor do I know anyone who's done something similar. Of course, I haven't known a lot of bi men very well (just met a few at parties, etc.), although long-ago I dated one a few times after being introduced by a mutual friend. Unfortunately, it didn't work out between us (he was drop-dead gorgeous with jet black hair, piercing blue eyes, and a chiseled body, so probably out of my league). I never insinuated to him that he might really just be gay. Interestingly enough, I later learned through the mutual friend that he later self-identified as gay. Even if it were true that most gay men tell bi men that they're just in denial (and I highly doubt that is true), why feel so bothered by it? I find it somewhat weird how defensive men like you get on this subject. 

Of course, the "fact" that you're married is not evidence of bisexuality. I've met lots of gay men who got married in their youth, and later came out of the closet (including some on this message forum). Your relationship with your wife is between you and her. If your wife went into the marriage knowing you're bi and might enjoy some cock on the side, there's nothing wrong with that. My partner "Chris" and I have an understanding that if either wants to have a 1-time tryst on the side, it's OK as long as we tell the other about it, and don't continue to contact that person afterwards (so far, neither one of us has availed ourselves of the opportunity). 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

It's interesting that scientific study is still trying to defend the "born this way" narrative. If oldest males are less likely to be gay then it's pretty easily explained as a social phenomenon. Eldest males have tremendous pressure to carry on the family name ( and property in wealthy families). Yet...some "scientists" insist on reading this data as biology not sociology.

Obviously, one study doesn't prove that sociology plays no role, and it may play some role. The fact that a person can "easily explain" something most definitely doesn't prove anything, either, however. I'm sure there are lots of people who "easily explain" why the earth is flat; that doesn't make it so. If you're interested in truly learning something, rather than "easily explaining" something, this Wikipedia entry has references to well over 100 scientific studies and articles on the subject of nature vs nurture in determining sexual orientation. There are dozens of studies looking at the question from different angles, including genetic, hormonal, babies whose gender was changed at birth (who usually are attracted to the gender opposite to the one they were born with, not opposite to the one they were raised as), and animal studies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

"...Hypotheses for the impact of the post-natal social environment on sexual orientation, however, are weak, especially for males. Biological theories for explaining the causes of sexual orientation are favored by scientists. These factors, which may be related to the development of a sexual orientation, include genes, the early uterine environment (such as prenatal hormones), and brain structure..."

[xyz48B]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

What a broad generalization.

I agree. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

being an ordinary person who happens to go for men is pretty comfortable.

Bravo !! I wish more gay people could reach that level of self assured consciousness.

 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

I've never told a man who's described himself as bi that he really must be gay.

Well...yesterday you said you don't know a single person who's bi....so that would pretty much make it impossible to do so ! 😂

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

.

 

2 hours ago, Unicorn said:

 

Of course, the "fact" that you're married is not evidence of bisexuality. I've met lots of gay men who got married in their youth, and later came out of the closet (including some on this message forum). Your relationship with your wife is between you and her. If your wife went into the marriage knowing you're bi and might enjoy some cock on the side, there's nothing wrong with that. My partner "Chris" and I have an understanding that if either wants to have a 1-time tryst on the side, it's OK as long as we tell the other about it, and don't continue to contact that person afterwards (so far, neither one of us has availed ourselves of the opportunity). 

 

 

Is evidence necessary?  For me, someone saying that he/she is bi is enough. It isn't my job get them to prove that they are bi.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

Well...yesterday you said you don't know a single person who's bi....so that would pretty much make it impossible to do so ! 😂

🙄 The fact that I don't know anyone who's bi doesn't mean I've never known someone who's bi. I've also met a number of people who said they were bi (though I don't know them), either at parties or escorts who advertise as bi. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Unicorn

[pubic_assistance]

7 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

 

 

 

Is evidence necessary?  For me, someone saying that he/she is bi is enough. It isn't my job get them to prove that they are bi.

In fact....@Unicorn just proved my point that I was making. Gay men just can't accept the fact that some of us can enjoy a fulfilling life with a woman and still be physically attracted to men.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

 

 

 

Is evidence necessary?  For me, someone saying that he/she is bi is enough. It isn't my job get them to prove that they are bi.

Who said evidence was necessary? Not me. It was PA who offered the fact that he was married as "evidence" to his friends that he's bi. I accept people as they wish to be acknowledged. No one needs to present "evidence." Marriage wouldn't be evidence of much, in my view. That being said, I did meet someone once who told me he's paid for sex for both men and women, multiple times. That fact did seem to be evidence to me that he was physically attracted to both genders. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

In fact....@Unicorn just proved my point that I was making. Gay men just can't accept the fact that some of us can enjoy a fulfilling life with a woman and still be physically attracted to men.

You're being defensive and putting words into my mouth again, imagining my thoughts (which is telling). As I've said previously, I've met at least one person who appears to be attracted to both genders. If you tell me that you're physically attracted to both genders, I accept that. Though--your choice of wording is interesting. You didn't say "Gay men just can't accept the fact that some of us are physically attracted to both men and women." You said "Gay men just can't accept the fact that some of us can enjoy a fulfilling life with a woman and still be physically attracted to men."

[pubic_assistance]

12 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

You're being defensive and putting words into my mouth again

Again ?

Number 1 ...I don't recall ever directing any other statement to you ...so no idea what you are referring to.

Number 2 ...you very clearly stated your doubt that my marriage was any proof of my sexuality. Thus proving my point that gay men have a problem believing in bisexuality and it's existence.

Which is my point in the origin of this whole conversation. People are generally bisexual by nature. Social pressures prevent that nature. In the future a reduction of the guilt of sexual fluidity may make everyone more bisexual ...but the gays will always lay doubt and claim they are all closet cases waiting for the right moment to come out. Making everyone actually "gay" not bisexual.

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by pubic_assistance

[MikeBiDude]

8 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

but the gays will always lay doubt and claim they are all closet cases waiting for the right moment to come out. Making everyone actually "gay" not bisexual.

Disheartening, but true. Even here in this generally very open minded group of men here on the forum.

[pubic_assistance]

37 minutes ago, MikeBiDude said:

Disheartening, but true. Even here

Thank you @MikeBiDudeGay men are often in complete denial of how dismissive they are when it comes to bisexuality. My straight friends are far more understanding than any of the gay men I know .

Edited February 27, 2022 by pubic_assistance

[Rudynate]

51 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Who said evidence was necessary? Not me. It was PA who offered the fact that he was married as "evidence" to his friends that he's bi. I accept people as they wish to be acknowledged. No one needs to present "evidence." Marriage wouldn't be evidence of much, in my view. That being said, I did meet someone once who told me he's paid for sex for both men and women, multiple times. That fact did seem to be evidence to me that he was physically attracted to both genders. 

You're the one who mentioned evidence.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

You're the one who mentioned evidence.

Only if you mean that I said "Who said evidence was necessary? Not me." I accept any sexual orientation a person wishes to present himself as. I have NEVER told someone that I don't believe him when it comes to his sexual orientation, nor have I ever hinted I needed any "evidence." No one can tell what desires a person has. The only "evidence" I can even think a person can have is if the person pays for both men and women, as that does seem like a concrete indication of the person's sexual appetite. As I've mentioned I did meet a man who's paid for sex for both genders (he happened to be an escort himself), so I can feel pretty confident that man is really bi. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

..you very clearly stated your doubt that my marriage was any proof of my sexuality. Thus proving my point that gay men have a problem believing in bisexuality and it's existence.

Which is my point in the origin of this whole conversation. People are generally bisexual by nature. Social pressures prevent that nature....

 

Dude, it's ludicrous to even think, let alone state, that marriage is "proof," let alone any evidence at all, of a person's sexuality. As I've said, I've known quite a few men who married because it was expected of them, then came out as gay later in life. I'm obviously not going to name any members, but that includes some members of this forum. Were the marriages of Rock Hudson or Anthony Perkins any proof, let alone evidence of their sexual orientations? The only evidence I see is evidence of complete silliness if you think marriage is proof of someone's sexual orientation. 😲

You decry, without evidence, a large swath of gay men who you say disbelieve your bisexuality, yet you yourself belittle the idea of pure homosexuality or heterosexuality when you make a grandiose statement that "people are generally bisexual by nature," again without any evidence, claiming that people choose to be gay or straight due to "social pressures." I will tell you 100%, I was never "socially pressured" to be gay and have ZERO sexual interest in women. No one here has stated you're not bi. YOU are the one who seems to believe we're all bi, but just have succumbed to "social pressures." 

[+ José Soplanucas]

1 hour ago, MikeBiDude said:

Even here in this generally very open minded group of men here

Uh? I think I am in the wrong place. Or you are talking about 3 decades ago.

 

[pubic_assistance]

16 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

you yourself belittle the idea of pure homosexuality or heterosexuality when you make a grandiose statement that "people are generally bisexual by nature,"

That, my friend is a completely bizarre accusation. By stating the very real fact that humans are by nature; bisexual, does nothing to "belittle" those who choose a homosexual lifestyle.

Edited February 27, 2022 by pubic_assistance

[xyz48B]

4 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Gay men just can't accept the fact that some of us can enjoy a fulfilling life with a woman and still be physically attracted to men.

Wrong. Gay here. Accept it just fine.