Austria Makes Covid Vaccine Mandatory for Entire Population

[TumYum]

2 hours ago, MassageAdam said:

I'm pro vaccine and I'm vaccinated but ya''ll are hateful awful people on here.  I'm also a nurse and have to work with covid people, just to put that in perspective with you before you start throwing stones.

heya, massageAdam...

yes there are some hateful/awful people here, but their voices are disproportionately represented relative to their actual number. learn who to ignore and you will be fine here.... it has been my method for happy survival!

[+ robear]

18 minutes ago, TumYum said:

heya, massageAdam...

yes there are some hateful/awful people here, but their voices are disproportionately represented relative to their actual number. learn who to ignore and you will be fine here.... it has been my method for happy survival!

Actually, excellent advice on all social media, which thrives on, and is exploited for, its ability create conflict

[TumYum]

1 minute ago, robear said:

Actually, excellent advice on all social media, which thrives on, and is exploited for, its ability create conflict

on this site, it is made easier by the fact that the "hateful/awful"s seem to exist only to dominate the politics forum -- you will rarely if ever see them otherwise. elsewhere here there are a couple of unpleasantnesses, but with just a small bit of skillful navigation life here is pretty good.

[+ tassojunior]

While Austria is mandating vaccines for all, next-door Switzerland is voting tomorrow (Sunday) in a nation-wide referendum on whether to do away with vaccine and lockdown requirements. It should be a fair view of how the people feel. 

If a new variant is resistant to the present covid vaccines and also doesn't help prevent serious cases, then vaccines are still going to be required as virtue signaling (ie: to show you're not a Republican), as flimsy masks are now. 10% of the 600 passengers from two planes in Amsterdam tested positive last night even though I assume most were vaccinated. Hopefully the vaccines are still effective at preventing serious cases, like they are with Delta. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by tassojunior

[+ robear]

54 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

While Austria is mandating vaccines for all, next-door Switzerland is voting tomorrow (Sunday) in a nation-wide referendum on whether to do away with vaccine and lockdown requirements. It should be a fair view of how the people feel. 

The people of Switzerland only.  They are very different, politically and culturally, and a referendum in Switzerland does not reflect "the people" of anywhere else, whatever the results of the referendum.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, BSR said:

If we are going to go down the slippery slope of blaming hospital patients for their maladies, let's go whole hog.  Some health issues are truly beyond one's control, but most have a root cause in the patient's behavior and lifestyle: smoking, obesity, etc.  Sure, getting a jab is a lot easier than losing weight, but obesity is still within one's control.  If you are going to triage hospital care based on patient behavior, you have to factor in all the patient's behavior and decisions, not just Covid vaccination.

I don't have a problem with insurance companies jacking up rates or even denying coverage altogether to vaxx refusers.  I just don't understand why it has to be government mandated.  Let insurance companies decide for themselves how to best conduct their business as opposed to the government micromanaging. 

The massive, massive flaw in your reasoning is that, unlike obesity, smoking, and so on, refusing a vaccination puts OTHERS at risk. There's a pretty huge number of people for whom the vaccine can't take due to their health problems or medications they're taking. Going indoors with others when one hasn't been vaccinated is far more akin to driving on public roads while drunk than it is to an obese person going to the supermarket. We do have laws that say if you're drunk, stay at home. And we do also say that if you're going to smoke, do so in your own home or outdoors, not in restaurants, bars, airplane cabins, and so forth. People should have the right to make stupid decisions as long as it only affects that person, not others. 

Also, as you've said, getting a jab is so much easier than quitting smoking or losing weight, it's almost nonsensical to compare the two. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, MassageAdam said:

... I'm also a nurse and have to work with covid people, just to put that in perspective with you before you start throwing stones.

I'm surprised that you really don't have negative feelings about people who intentionally put you, your fellow staff members, and, most importantly, your other patients at risk due to their selfishness. As someone who worked as a physician for 30 years, it's been my experience that nurses, other physicians, and other staff definitely have feelings about such people, which they're eager to discuss in private in break rooms or other places where patients and family can't hear. This does not mean that we don't give each patient our best effort. I've taken care of more raging alcoholics than Cher has hair on her head, as well as countless drug abusers, murderers, child rapists, and so on. 

Like most people, I'm guessing, I can separate my feeling from my professional duties. But to deny one's feelings about people who put others' lives in jeopardy seems almost robotic, in my opinion. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Unicorn

[BSR]

4 hours ago, Unicorn said:

The massive, massive flaw in your reasoning is that, unlike obesity, smoking, and so on, refusing a vaccination puts OTHERS at risk. There's a pretty huge number of people for whom the vaccine can't take due to their health problems or medications they're taking. Going indoors with others when one hasn't been vaccinated is far more akin to driving on public roads while drunk than it is to an obese person going to the supermarket. We do have laws that say if you're drunk, stay at home. And we do also say that if you're going to smoke, do so in your own home or outdoors, not in restaurants, bars, airplane cabins, and so forth. People should have the right to make stupid decisions as long as it only affects that person, not others. 

Also, as you've said, getting a jab is so much easier than quitting smoking or losing weight, it's almost nonsensical to compare the two. 

But the issue of debate was not risk to others; the issue was triaging medical care based on vaccine status.  You've repeated countless times your argument about risk to others.  We are all quite familiar with it.

You want to use every means available to coerce vaccine refusers to submit to the vaccine, an end I sympathize with even though I find the means unacceptable.  I am simply arguing that whatever principles you apply to the triaging of medical care must be done across the board.  If an unvaccinated person is denied hospital care for Covid, as @Monarchy79 proposes, then all "self-inflicted" health problems (and the list is so very long) must also be denied hospital care.  You can't single out just the Covid issue.

[Monarchy79]

2 hours ago, BSR said:

But the issue of debate was not risk to others; the issue was triaging medical care based on vaccine status.  You've repeated countless times your argument about risk to others.  We are all quite familiar with it.

You want to use every means available to coerce vaccine refusers to submit to the vaccine, an end I sympathize with even though I find the means unacceptable.  I am simply arguing that whatever principles you apply to the triaging of medical care must be done across the board.  If an unvaccinated person is denied hospital care for Covid, as @Monarchy79 proposes, then all "self-inflicted" health problems (and the list is so very long) must also be denied hospital care.  You can't single out just the Covid issue.

No. 
And try a better attempt at mincing my words. 

I’m not sure why you can’t properly comprehend the fact that those who are choosing to not be vaccinated (and who wind up in hospitals sick later), are impacting the ENTIRE NETWORK of hospitals’ RESOURCES, STAFF, and FACILITIES. 

NO OTHER “SELF- INFLICTING”, HEALTH CONDITION HAS THIS IMPACT. 

And YES WE CAN single out the COVID issue. If you anti-vaccine numbskulls “have the right”, to contaminate the public, spread viruses, and flood out hospitals, then we have the right to SHAME YOU FOR IT. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Monarchy79

[BSR]

1 minute ago, Monarchy79 said:

No. 
And try a better attempt at mincing my words. 

I’m note sure what’s you can’t properly comprehend the fact that those who are choosing to not be vaccinated (and who wind up in hospitals sick later), are impacting the ENTIRE NETWORK of hospitals’ RESOURCES, STAFF, and FACILITIES. 

NO OTHER “SELF- INFLICTING”, HEALTH CONDITION HAS THIS IMPACT. 

And YES WE CAN single out the COVID issue. If you anti-vaccine numbskulls “have the right”, to contaminate the public, spread viruses, and flood out hospitals, then we have the right to SHAME YOU FOR IT. 

 

 

 

 

First of all, when using all caps, less is more.

"No other self-inflicting health condition has this impact"?  You really need to read more about the American epidemic of obesity and its massive impact on public health: heart attack, cardiovascular disease, stroke, diabetes, gallbladder disease, osteoarthritis, mental health disorders, 13 types of cancer, etc.

As much as @Unicorn and I disagree on other issues, we do agree that even the "unworthy" and "self-inflicted" have a right to medical care.  From his post above, it's clear that while unicorn would be privately disgusted by a drunk driver who suffered serious injury, he would never refuse that drunk driver the medical care he needs.  I assume he extends that same principle to vaxx refusers.

You believe that the end justifies the means, that society must employ any and all authoritarian measures necessary to achieve 100% vaccination.  I believe that totalitarianism can only create far greater problems than it purportedly solves.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, BSR said:

But the issue of debate was not risk to others; the issue was triaging medical care based on vaccine status.  You've repeated countless times your argument about risk to others.  We are all quite familiar with it.

...

The issue is that vaccine refusers are entirely responsible for the situation of the hospitals being full, due to the contagious nature of the illness. If an arsonist burns up a house and suffers burns along with 3 of his victims, and there are only 3 beds available in the burn unit, you honestly don't think that it's the arsonist who should be denied the burn unit bed? Our healthcare system is equipped to handle the slow trickle of patients, including the occasional lung cancer patient who got it from smoking, and so on. Massive, rapid surges in demand for the healthcare system due to a highly contagious virus are entirely due vaccine refusers at this point, and there shouldn't be any question as to who should get access to resources which are limited entirely due to selfishness and insensitivity to the lives of others. If a group of terrorists blow up a hole in a ship, and there are insufficient lifeboats available, you think the terrorists should get first dibs on seats in the lifeboat?

[Monarchy79]

4 hours ago, BSR said:

First of all, when using all caps, less is more.

"No other self-inflicting health condition has this impact"?  You really need to read more about the American epidemic of obesity and its massive impact on public health: heart attack, cardiovascular disease, stroke, diabetes, gallbladder disease, osteoarthritis, mental health disorders, 13 types of cancer, etc.

As much as @Unicorn and I disagree on other issues, we do agree that even the "unworthy" and "self-inflicted" have a right to medical care.  From his post above, it's clear that while unicorn would be privately disgusted by a drunk driver who suffered serious injury, he would never refuse that drunk driver the medical care he needs.  I assume he extends that same principle to vaxx refusers.

You believe that the end justifies the means, that society must employ any and all authoritarian measures necessary to achieve 100% vaccination.  I believe that totalitarianism can only create far greater problems than it purportedly solves.

Here you go again mincing my words….

1.) You grouped all “self-inflicting” people into one group. I didn’t. 
To be very specific, I do not group anti-vaxxers, with those who are obese, smoke cigarettes, or any other group you are sloppily linking together to make a B.S. point about providing care  to those who don’t “deserve” it. 

Anti-vaxxers are intentional with their lack of ability to use rational behavior in decision making and intentionally abuse medical resources and impact the ability for this nation to care for the masses, simply for the sake of abusing their warped idea of “civil liberties.” I place anti-vaxxers in a class of their own. 
 

2.) Don’t tell me what I believe. Read what I post, comprehend it CLEARLY and absorb it. 
 

3.) Interesting how you slam me for allegedly having a totalitarian view on this topic, yet you feel very comfortable with DICTATING when (and if) I should use “all caps”, in my postings. I smell hypocrisy…. and the stench is coming from your keyboard….. 

If anti-vaxxers  have the right to be irresponsible, ignorant, reckless and idiotic;  then I most certainly have the right to use ALL CAPS. 

 

[+ WilliamM]

5 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

The issue is that vaccine refusers are entirely responsible for the situation of the hospitals being full, due to the contagious nature of the illness. If an arsonist burns up a house and suffers burns along with 3 of his victims, and there are only 3 beds available in the burn unit, you honestly don't think that it's the arsonist who should be denied the burn unit bed? Our healthcare system is equipped to handle the slow trickle of patients, including the occasional lung cancer patient who got it from smoking, and so on. Massive, rapid surges in demand for the healthcare system due to a highly contagious virus are entirely due vaccine refusers at this point, and there shouldn't be any question as to who should get access to resources which are limited entirely due to selfishness and insensitivity to the lives of others. If a group of terrorists blow up a hole in a ship, and there are insufficient lifeboats available, you think the terrorists should get first dibs on seats in the lifeboat?

Years ago Tobacco companies advertised on television. Ed Murrow smoked on the air during his highly rated television show "Person to Person.". The number one show, "I Love Lucy" was sponsored by a tobacco company.

Please be more careful, @Unicorn

[+ augustus]

3 hours ago, Unicorn said:

The issue is that vaccine refusers are entirely responsible for the situation of the hospitals being full

That's not true now.  Breakthrough cases are soaring all over the world.  The antibodies from the vaccine start dying quickly.  While the unvaxxed like me who had Covid can produce antibodies for many, many years.  

Edited November 28, 2021 by augustus

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, augustus said:

That's not true now.  Breakthrough cases are soaring all over the world.  The antibodies from the vaccine start dying quickly.  While the unvaxxed like me who had Covid can produce antibodies for many, may years.  

Sorry, but you're simply factually wrong:

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths by Vaccination Status November 24, 2021 Summary Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are • 5 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds. • 14 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds. Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are • 5 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds. • 18 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds. Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are • 5 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds. • 10 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ yearolds. • 9 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.

Breakthrough cases are only a small fraction of the hospitalized population. Of those who get symptoms, most can recover safely at home. This is a matter of fact, not a matter for argument, just because you don't want to accept the facts.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-coronavirus-vaccines-hospital-cases-rates-unvaccinated

"By late July, a total of about 26 adults per 100,000 vaccinated people had been hospitalized for COVID-19. That’s compared with about 431 hospitalized people for every 100,000 unvaccinated individuals — a rate roughly 17 times as high as for those who were vaccinated. The data come from 13 states, including California, Georgia and Utah."

Edited November 28, 2021 by Unicorn

[+ augustus]

In New Mexico, health officials have cited waning immunity as one of the reasons behind a recent surge in COVID-19 cases. The most recent state data shows that nearly 29% of cases and 21% of hospitalizations from Oct. 18 to Nov. 15 were among vaccinated people.  That is from this ABC news article.  It's a trend that's accelerating. 

 

Tracking breakthrough cases key to pandemic response, experts say - ABC News (go.com)

 

There is no doubt that the efficacy of the vaccine is fading.  Constant booster shots may no longer work as your immune system will fail to recognize them.  Very scary stuff.

[coriolis888]

32 minutes ago, augustus said:

The antibodies from the vaccine start dying quickly.  While the unvaxxed like me who had Covid can produce antibodies for many, may years.  

How do you know that your body "can produce antibodies for many many years"?

There is so much research on the subject that changes by the day and by the location of where the study is conducted. 

Antibodies weaken over time as is agreed by most medical scientists. 

For you to say that your body "can produce antibodies for many many years" is not supported by anything authoritative I have ever read.  

Some irresponsible news casters and other loonies say the strangest things about the virus and what it can and can not do.  

Even Bolsonaro, the president of Brazil, recently said that those who take the vaccine will eventually turn into a crocodile.  

Quite simply, almost every day, something new is learned about the awful virus.  

If vaccines have been shown to reduce the number of deaths and the severity of the illness if the virus is acquired, I am at a loss to understand why people refuse to accept the vaccine.  That is, of course, unless they believe Bolsonaro, of Brazil.  

[coriolis888]

Even though this thread includes a title of Austria, the thread really is about controversy over coronavirus vaccinations.

Below is a link to Brazil President Bolsonaro's ridiculous stance on coronavirus vaccinations. 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bolsonaro-covid-vaccine-brazil_n_619c3cf9e4b0ae9a42a4fafd

Despite Bolsonaro's foolish encouraging people not to take the vaccine, Brazilians are ignoring him and are vaccinated at a very high percentage rate, more than 70% thus far and the vaccinations continue.  

[BSR]

2 hours ago, Monarchy79 said:

Here you go again mincing my words….

1.) You grouped all “self-inflicting” people into one group. I didn’t. 
To be very specific, I do not group anti-vaxxers, with those who are obese, smoke cigarettes, or any other group you are sloppily linking together to make a B.S. point about providing care  to those who don’t “deserve” it. 

Anti-vaxxers are intentional with their lack of ability to use rational behavior in decision making and intentionally abuse medical resources and impact the ability for this nation to care for the masses, simply for the sake of abusing their warped idea of “civil liberties.” I place anti-vaxxers in a class of their own. 
 

2.) Don’t tell me what I believe. Read what I post, comprehend it CLEARLY and absorb it. 
 

3.) Interesting how you slam me for allegedly having a totalitarian view on this topic, yet you feel very comfortable with DICTATING when (and if) I should use “all caps”, in my postings. I smell hypocrisy…. and the stench is coming from your keyboard….. 

If anti-vaxxers  have the right to be irresponsible, ignorant, reckless and idiotic;  then I most certainly have the right to use ALL CAPS. 

 

I'm sorry, did I deny you medical care unless you stopped using all caps?  Because that would indeed be totalitarian.  What I did was give a suggestion.  You are free to ignore my suggestion, with no repercussions whatsoever.  Not exactly Stalin's Soviet Union.  Drama Queen much?

If you add up all the people who suffer heart attacks, cardiovascular disease, stroke, diabetes and its many complications, 13 types of obesity-related cancers, you end up with millions of people who caused their own health problems, and these millions are clogging up and burdening our our health care system.  You think that vaccine refusers are "different" and should be treated differently.  To me, both groups brought their health problems on themselves.  If you're going to deny vaccine refusers hospital care, then you have to deny the obese as well.  But no matter what I say, what arguments I make, you will insist the unvaccinated are "different."  We'll just have to agree to disagree (again, that was a suggestion, ignore it if you like).

The costs of a stay in ICU can be stratospheric.  If insurance companies jack up rates or even cancel policies for vaccine refusers, that's a logical business decision, just like a rate increase for smokers or the obese.  I just don't want government mandating rate increases or policy cancellations, because that is tyranny.  If hospitals are indeed overloaded, have run out of beds, and have literally no choice but to turn some patients away, I guess I would be OK with triaging hospital care based on vaccination status.  I am left wondering how often that actually happens, as opposed to hysteria drummed up by would-be authoritarians, because it sounds like you & @Unicorn are using denial of care as a cudgel to punish the unvaxxed, not as a terrible decision necessary in a critical emergency situation.

[lonely_john]

This is why we need an Eyeroll Reaction. Please go ahead to the link below and vote, and feel free to send a direct message to admins asking for this feature on this forum.

 

[Monarchy79]

8 hours ago, augustus said:

That's not true now.  Breakthrough cases are soaring all over the world.  The antibodies from the vaccine start dying quickly.  While the unvaxxed like me who had Covid can produce antibodies for many, many years.  

I wonder how many people you potentially killed during the time you carried and spread that virus? So much for “social responsibility” 🙄

[Monarchy79]

8 hours ago, augustus said:

That's not true now.  Breakthrough cases are soaring all over the world.  The antibodies from the vaccine start dying quickly.  While the unvaxxed like me who had Covid can produce antibodies for many, many years.  

You can also keep producing the virus and keep spreading it. People like yourself are the reason behind the infection waves. Your new name is “Super Spreader Augustus”. 
 

Thanks for your “contribution”, to humankind. 😒

[lonely_john]

14 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

I wonder how many people you potentially killed during the time you carried and spread that virus? So much for “social responsibility” 🙄

I completely agree. Disinformation concerning public health should not be allowed in any online platform because the potential to cause harm to others just by spreading lies is too big. Disinformation is deadly.

Edited November 28, 2021 by lonely_john

[+ Tygerscent]

This may not give goosebumps… it’s interesting thought to apply here~

[TumYum]

5 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

You can also keep producing the virus and keep spreading it. People like yourself are the reason behind the infection waves. Your new name is “Super Spreader Augustus”. 
 

Thanks for your “contribution”, to humankind. 😒

i guess some people -- even the smallest amongst us -- will do anything to be remembered